besides mikey mouse who else has been swept in 1st rd 2 years in a row lolz

[And1AllDay]

1. Mikey mouse, 85' & 86'

anyone else or just mickey jordone? :oldlol:

[theman93]

https://media.tenor.com/Xq0_wuLCSiEAAAAC/we-have-damage-control-to-do-kassandra-lee.gif

[ImKobe]

Jordan never got swept in a BO7 series so those don't really count in comparison.

Bran OTOH got swept 3 times in his career with two of them coming in the Finals. Yikes.

[And1AllDay]

Jordan never got swept in a BO7 series so those don't really count in comparison.

Bran OTOH got swept 3 times in his career with two of them coming in the Finals. Yikes.

focus youre tiny braincells

besides mikey mouse who else has been swept in 1st rd 2 years in a row lolz

[ImKobe]

Bran got swept twice in the Finals :lol:lol:lol

[And1AllDay]

Bran got swept twice in the Finals :lol:lol

wrong alt loser :oldlol:

mikey swept in 1st rd rwice :roll::oldlol:

[ImKobe]

Bran got swept twice in the Finals :lol:lol:lol


:roll:

[Airupthere]

Bran got swept twice in the Finals :lol:lol:lol

:lebronamazed:

[HoopologyPhD]

Not many stars make the playoffs in their first few years in the league

[And1AllDay]

Not many stars make the playoffs in their first few years in the league

mike was 24 :oldlol:

2ez

[And1AllDay]

why so silent guys?

1. Mikey mouse, 85' & 86'

anyone else or just mickey jordone? :oldlol:

[And1AllDay]

guys? why so silent?

Mikey mouse, 85' & 86'

besides mikey mouse who else has been swept in first rd two years in a row lolz

[LeGoat4Life]

Lebron missed the playoff for 2 years straight with a super team though :oldlol:

[Spurs m8]

Fvck it's funny watching these damage control threads.

You just know this guys pain cuts deep.

Stop living through a grown man, you weird cvnt

[Axe]

Why couldn't he make the playoffs with other teams? :confusedshrug:

[ELITEpower23]

guys? why so silent?

Mikey mouse, 85' & 86'

besides mikey mouse who else has been swept in first rd two years in a row lolz

A1 got these bois shook and silent :lol Just how we like it

[3ba11]

Jordan got swept before anyone ever called him goat, while the so-called LeGOAT was lottery in 2019 and 1st Round exit in 2021

Once Jordan got a single all-star, he couldn't lose, while Lebron was a perennial loser and underdog with multiple all-star teammates, HOF coaches and super-teams

[WhiteKyrie]

https://media.tenor.com/Xq0_wuLCSiEAAAAC/we-have-damage-control-to-do-kassandra-lee.gif

:roll: it’s pretty pathetic

[ELITEpower23]

Jordan got swept before anyone ever called him goat, while the so-called LeGOAT was lottery in 2019 and 1st Round exit in 2021

Once Jordan got a single all-star, he couldn't lose, while Lebron was a perennial loser and underdog with multiple all-star teammates, HOF coaches and super-teams

No Pip...

[kawhileonard2]

Lebron missed the playoff for 2 years straight with a super team though :oldlol:

And won two bronze medals.

[3ba11]

No Pip...


2 Pip's, still no chip

in 2011, 2014 or 2017

[Axe]

2 Pip's, still no chip
No flagrant foul rule?

[3ba11]

No flagrant foul rule?


"no impede" rule?

"defensive 3 seconds"?

no hand-check?

no "decision"?

[Axe]

"no impede" rule?

"defensive 3 seconds"?

no hand-check?

no "decision"?
No jerry krause?

[3ba11]

No jerry krause?


Krause had the easiest job ever, aka find a bunch of cheap defenders to surround the goat scorer and the least all-star help that anyone ever had - no need to find a bunch of expensive scorers or star help

Compare that to Lebron's GM - they must find truckloads of star-help and elite spacers to support Lebron's poor fundamentals and stiff-arm game

(abnormal ball-dominance for his size/position, which imposes spot-up roles that doesn't develop teammates, chemistry or strategy/coaching, thereby needing more help)

[1987_Lakers]

No jerry krause?

MJ tried to convince Krause to draft UNC teammate Joe Wolf instead of Pippen. Krause single-handedly saved MJ's legacy by going with Pippen.

[kawhileonard2]

MJ tried to convince Krause to draft UNC teammate Joe Wolf instead of Pippen. Krause single-handedly saved MJ's legacy by going with Pippen.

Lebron won two bronze medals, lost with HCA 3x, missed the playoffs 4x and has as many titles as a guy in his era who beat him head to head 3x.

[And1AllDay]

A1 got these bois shook and silent :lol Just how we like it

they cant say sh1t :oldlol:

silenced these bois 2ez

[3ba11]

MJ tried to convince Krause to draft UNC teammate Joe Wolf instead of Pippen. Krause single-handedly saved MJ's legacy by going with Pippen.


In the 1990 Playoffs, KJ dominated and massively upset Magic's 1 seed, so Krause would've had a title in 1990 by drafting KJ instead of having "migraine" Pippen trick off the title.

KJ led Phoenix to 55+ wins and the WCF in 89' and 90'.

So no.. You're wrong - Pippen cost the Bulls 3 titles by sucking from 88-90' and even when the bulls started winning, MJ still needed to be MVP for 4 titles (rare), and also scoring champ and average FAR more ppg than anyone ever has in the playoffs.




MJ tried to convince Krause to draft UNC teammate Joe Wolf instead of Pippen. Krause single-handedly saved MJ's legacy by going with Pippen.

1989 Regular Season

Pippen..... 14 on 47%
Lewis....... 18 on 47%


1989 Playoffs

Pippen...... 13 on 46%
Lewis........ 20 on 47%



Comparing Reggie Lewis and Pippen as 1st options in the Playoffs:


92' LEWIS..... 28/4/4.. 57.0 ts.. 23.8 PER.. 0.177 ws.. 4.1 dbpm.. 2.6 obpm.. 6.8 bpm.. 0.9 vorp
94' PIPPEN.... 23/8/5.. 52.1 ts.. 22.8 PER.. 0.149 ws.. 4.0 dbpm.. 1.6 obpm.. 5.6 bpm.. 0.7 vorp

[1987_Lakers]

What would have happened if Krause listened to MJ and drafted Joe Wolf instead of trading for Pippen?

[kawhileonard2]

What would have happened if Krause listened to MJ and drafted Joe Wolf instead of trading for Pippen?

Joe Wolf would have became Pippen.

http://sports.espn.go.com/chicago/nba/news/story?id=5453558



CHICAGO -- The Detroit Pistons may have toughened up the Bulls in the late 1980s and early 1990s, but Jerry Krause wouldn't give the Bad Boys any undue credit for contributing to Scottie Pippen's basketball manhood or his Hall of Fame career.

"No, Michael [Jordan] made him a man," said the Bulls' former general manager, now a scout for the White Sox. "The Pistons didn't have anything to do with that. Michael made him a man and Doug [Collins] did a great job with him in his first year. And then when Phil [Jackson] brought the triangle [offense] in, it really helped him because he had all the physical skills to be great."





"And he had Michael to beat on him for a year every day in practice and Michael beat him to death," Krause said. "The practices were great because you could see him at the end of the year start to grow and start to fight Michael . . ."

[3ba11]

What would have happened if Krause listened to MJ and drafted Joe Wolf instead of trading for Pippen?


Krause would've thought twice about Pippen and settled on KJ, who would've helped MJ win the title in 89' and 90', while Pippen wet the bed.. KJ was winning 55+ games and making WCF over Magic's 1 seed in 89' and 90'.

Or he would've settled on Reggie Lewis, who was superior in 89' or 90', and drastically outplayed Pippen in the playoffs when he was 1st option in 92' versus peak Pippen in 94' (see stats in previous post)

Btw, KJ upset Magic in 1990 just like De'Aaron Fox would've done to Curry this year except the wrist injury stopped him

Furthermore, Krause could've gone with Reggie Miller, who drastically outplayed Pippen 6/6 times against the same playoff opponent - so Pippen got 19 on 40% vs the 95' Magic, while Miller dominated with 26 on 53%.. that happened 5 more times against the same PO opponent.. Pippen simply sucked

[1987_Lakers]

Joe Wolf would have became Pippen.

https://media.tenor.com/fWg9gm1CrdYAAAAM/lebron-james-crying.gif

[1987_Lakers]

Krause would've thought twice about Pippen and settled on KJ, who would've helped MJ win the title in 89' and 90', while Pippen wet the bed.. KJ was winning 55+ games and making WCF over Magic's 1 seed in 89' and 90'.

Or he would've settled on Reggie Lewis, who was superior in 89' or 90', and drastically outplayed Pippen in the playoffs when he was 1st option in 92' versus peak Pippen in 94' (see stats in previous post)

KJ upset Magic in 1990 just like De'Aaron Fox would've done to Curry this year except the wrist injury stopped him

Btw, Krause could've gone with Reggie Miller, who drastically outplayed Pippen 6/6 times against the same playoff opponent - so Pippen got 19 on 40% vs the 95' Magic, while Miller dominated with 26 on 53%.. that happened 5 more times against the same PO opponent.. Pippen simply sucked

Completely deflected the question

[3ba11]

Completely deflected the question


I answered the question.. If Krause had considered Jordan's advice and taken his eyes off Pippen, then he would've settled on guys like KJ or Lewis, who were good right away and would've won titles with MJ in 89' and 90'.

Or he could've drafted Reggie Miller and beaten the 95' Magic, since Miller got 26 on 53% against the Magic and Pippen lost the series with 19 on 40% - Miller outplayed Pippen 6/6 times against the same playoff opponent, so the Bulls would've fared much better with a Curry-like impact from Miller, who nearly beat the 98' Bulls or 00' Lakers with zero all-star teammates.

[1987_Lakers]

I answered the question.. If Krause had considered Jordan's advice and taken his eyes off Pippen, then he would've settled on guys like KJ or Lewis, who were good right away and would've won titles with MJ in 89' and 90'.


This is deflection on another level. :roll:

[3ba11]

This is deflection on another level. :roll:


Which one would a GM prefer:


R Miller vs. 90' Pistons..... 20.7 on 57%... 17.9 usage
Pippen. vs. 90' Pistons..... 16.6 on 43%... 20.4 usage

R Miller vs 93' Knicks....... 31.5 on 53%... 27.5 usage
Pippen. vs 93' Knicks....... 22.5 on 51%... 28.4 usage

R Miller vs 94' Knicks....... 24.7 on 44%... 30.1 usage
Pippen. vs 94' Knicks....... 21.7 on 41%... 31.7 usage

R Miller vs 95' Magic........ 25.9 on 52%... 26.2 usage
Pippen. vs 95' Magic........ 19.0 on 42%... 23.1 usage

R Miller vs 00' Lakers....... 24.3 on 41%... 25.0 usage
Pippen. vs 00' Lakers....... 15.1 on 43%... 19.5 usage
Pippen. vs 99' Lakers....... 18.3 on 33%... 23.5 usage

R Miller 98' ECF............... 17.4 on 41%... 21.1 usage
Pippen. 98' ECF............... 16.6 on 39%... 26.0 usage


The point is that there were other "pippens" in that draft because being a "pippen" is a low bar - the player isn't required to provide good scoring help, efficiency or have good peak capability (be on scouting report) or hit ANY big shots... ever... a pressure-free role as 2nd option

Numerous guys drafted behind Pippen were far superior, such as KJ leading the Suns to 55 wins and the WCF in 89' or 90' (while destroying Magic's 1 seed), or Lewis being better (see stats in 89', 90', or compare their 10-game playoff runs as 1st option in 92' vs 94' - MASSIVE statistical advantage for Lewis), or Miller being far more impactful and providing more help against the same playoff opponents (stats above)

[1987_Lakers]

Which one would a GM prefer:


Krause preferred Pippen over Wolf and as a result it saved MJ's legacy.

[3ba11]

Krause preferred Pippen over Wolf and as a result it saved MJ's legacy.


Even if Krause whiffed by picking Wolf, they could pick up a "pippen" in the 88' draft because it isn't hard to find a bricklayer with low peak capability (not on scouting reports) that isn't required to space the floor or hit a big shot... ever

It's easy to find that

But the reality is that all Jordan needed was good coaching - that's how he beat Pat Riley's Knicks in 7 games despite Pippen getting 16 on 40%, or that's how he won Finals with a sidekick getting 15.7 on 34% or 17 on 41% for the entire 96-98' Playoffs.

Any bum can get those numbers that Pippen got, but it takes a good coach to implement the best brand of ball.. It's still a testament to Jordan because his skillset is coachable - he isn't an abnormal ball-dominator for his size/position that forces a coach to put the ball in his hands and limits strategic capacity.

Btw, it was only a matter of time before a coach arrived that said "oh wow.. look at this guy MJ.. we can run a DYNASTY brand of ball with this guy - a high ball movement and high assist team... he's an expert jumpshooter that can allow the ball to move and teammates to have the ball in their hands and play to capacity."

[1987_Lakers]

Even if Krause whiffed by picking Wolf, they could pick up a "pippen" in the 88' draft

Considering the '88 draft was one of the weakest ever, it's highly unlikely. Chicago picked at 11 that year, the best player in that draft that didn't go top 10 was probably Dan Majerle or Rod Strickland. Hardly Pippen level.

[hold this L]

Whose been swept 3 times in the playoffs throughout their career? :applause:

https://twitter.com/bleacherreport/status/1660848756831694848

[3ba11]

Considering the '88 draft was one of the weakest ever, it's highly unlikely. Chicago picked at 11 that year, the best player in that draft that didn't go top 10 was probably Dan Majerle or Rod Strickland. Hardly Pippen level.


Jordan had the 1 seed without Pippen in 1998 and a 60-win pace in games without Pippen from 91-98' (30-12), so Jordan just needed good coaching - good coaching is how he won with trash from his sidekick - that's how he won multiple Finals with 15.7 on woat efficiency from a sidekick, or 3-peated with nothing from anyone except 20 transition or system points from Pippen (low peak capability/not on scouting report).

Btw, Majerle had higher gamescore than Pippen in the 93' Finals and was a 3-time all-star and 3-time all-defense - these accolades would be much greater with a bunch of chips and winning spotlight to inflate them - Majerle didn't need a system to get numbers and was an all-time shooter, so he was a better scorer than Pippen and comparable defender.. Jordan could easily win with Majerle or even Kukoc in Pippen's spot and put like Derek Harper or Kenny Smith at the point - that's more than enough for the GOAT to 3-peat... Or replace Pippen with Horry and Paxson with Kenny Smith.. Voila - the goat needed the least help ever to win multiple chips.. Although Horry isn't fair because Pippen is 0/6 in matching Horry's gamescore from the 95' finals

[1987_Lakers]

Jordan had the 1 seed without Pippen in 1998 and a 60-win pace in games without Pippen from 91-98' (30-12), so Jordan just needed good coaching - good coaching is how he won with trash from his sidekick

1-9

[3ba11]

1-9


https://media.tenor.com/zdFtiktD6-wAAAAM/accomplished-job.gif

[Lebron23]

Why couldn't he make the playoffs with other teams? :confusedshrug:

This

LeBron won 4 NBA titles with 3 different teams

[Bawkish]

MJ tried to convince Krause to draft UNC teammate Joe Wolf instead of Pippen. Krause single-handedly saved MJ's legacy by going with Pippen.

Is this the same Krause who wants Tim Floyd as the new coach instead of Phil Jackson?

[Baller789]

Jordan was far from perfect. Neither was Bron.

But this obvious damage control from Bronies is hilarious.

[3ba11]

Jordan was far from perfect. Neither was Bron.

But this obvious damage control from Bronies is hilarious.


What are the flaws in his career or game?

He never lost as the favorite, or with a good team (1 or 2 seed) or on the championship level, and he had the least all-star help of any multiple-ring winner and lost the least ever with an all-star teammate, while having the highest championship or MVP frequency in 3-pointer history (modern era).

Regarding his game, when have we ever cared about someone shooting poorly from three on 0.6 attempts per game?... Jordan always shot at today's standard whenever he had a modicum of volume (over 1.5 attempts), such as the 90' regular season (38% on 3 attempts), or 93' Playoffs (39% on 4 attempts) or the 92' Finals (43% on 5 attempts).

Regarding his passing, MJ averaged more assists than Pippen for their Finals career, Playoff career, and regular season career, while also averaging more assists than Lebron for the half of their chips or the first 9 years of their respective playoff careers (85-93' vs 06-14'), before Curry's spacing era made offense easier for everyone starting in 2015...

Essentially, there was nothing wrong with his shooting (goat form and goat 2-point ability and shot threes well at volume), nor was there anything wrong with his passing - he averaged 6 assists despite playing off ball with low turnovers despite his high scoring.. And when he dominated the ball in 1989 as a starting point guard for 25 games, he averaged 30/10/10 and this was a full 30 years before the "30/10/10 era" where Luka, Lebron and Westbrook made that style common

[Overdrive]

Which one would a GM prefer:


R Miller vs. 90' Pistons..... 20.7 on 57%... 17.9 usage
Pippen. vs. 90' Pistons..... 16.6 on 43%... 20.4 usage

R Miller vs 93' Knicks....... 31.5 on 53%... 27.5 usage
Pippen. vs 93' Knicks....... 22.5 on 51%... 28.4 usage

R Miller vs 94' Knicks....... 24.7 on 44%... 30.1 usage
Pippen. vs 94' Knicks....... 21.7 on 41%... 31.7 usage

R Miller vs 95' Magic........ 25.9 on 52%... 26.2 usage
Pippen. vs 95' Magic........ 19.0 on 42%... 23.1 usage

R Miller vs 00' Lakers....... 24.3 on 41%... 25.0 usage
Pippen. vs 00' Lakers....... 15.1 on 43%... 19.5 usage
Pippen. vs 99' Lakers....... 18.3 on 33%... 23.5 usage

R Miller 98' ECF............... 17.4 on 41%... 21.1 usage
Pippen. 98' ECF............... 16.6 on 39%... 26.0 usage


The point is that there were other "pippens" in that draft because being a "pippen" is a low bar - the player isn't required to provide good scoring help, efficiency or have good peak capability (be on scouting report) or hit ANY big shots... ever... a pressure-free role as 2nd option

Numerous guys drafted behind Pippen were far superior, such as KJ leading the Suns to 55 wins and the WCF in 89' or 90' (while destroying Magic's 1 seed), or Lewis being better (see stats in 89', 90', or compare their 10-game playoff runs as 1st option in 92' vs 94' - MASSIVE statistical advantage for Lewis), or Miller being far more impactful and providing more help against the same playoff opponents (stats above)

You're digging your own grave. You're saying Jordan couldn't maximize his talents, because his 2nd option couldn't score 3 more ppg. So as all the Bronstans claim Jordan's career depended on his teammates and you officially admitted it.

[Baller789]

What are the flaws in his career or game?


Having stans like you apparently

[3ba11]

You're digging your own grave. You're saying Jordan couldn't maximize his talents, because his 2nd option couldn't score 3 more ppg. So as all the Bronstans claim Jordan's career depended on his teammates and you officially admitted it.


Pippen averaged 14 on 40% in 1999 just a few months after averaging 20 on 45% alongside MJ

So MJ elevated Pippen's game and Pippen saw a ton of growth alongside Jordan, which is rare - most all-timers don't have a good record of teammate development but MJ developed single-digit rookies like Pippen, Grant and BJ into viable producers.

This was possible because MJ wasn't an abnormal ball-dominator that imposed spot-up roles, which stalls ball-handlers like Ingram, Pippen, Westbrook, or Larry Hughes... Instead, MJ was an expert jumpshooter and off-ball player, so Pippen had the ball in his hands - it's like Austin Reaves going bananas when Lebron started to play off-ball.. The difference is that Jordan was adding 30-35 on top of the existing roster as an off-ball player, while Lebron could only add 23 ppg as an off-ball player this year, so he had a whimpering underdog instead of dominant favorite like MJ and Curry have.

[SATAN]

You're digging your own grave. You're saying Jordan couldn't maximize his talents, because his 2nd option couldn't score 3 more ppg. So as all the Bronstans claim Jordan's career depended on his teammates and you officially admitted it.

About time :applause:

[TheMan]

https://media.tenor.com/Xq0_wuLCSiEAAAAC/we-have-damage-control-to-do-kassandra-lee.gif

Lol

[meat]

why so silent guys?

1. Mikey mouse, 85' & 86'

anyone else or just mickey jordone? :oldlol:

88-89 and 89-90 Nuggets. Happy now?

[ELITEpower23]

You're digging your own grave. You're saying Jordan couldn't maximize his talents, because his 2nd option couldn't score 3 more ppg. So as all the Bronstans claim Jordan's career depended on his teammates and you officially admitted it.

100% that's the best part about it.

Explain Jordan's 1-9.

"JORDONE WAS NOT 1-9 IT DIDNT COUNT HE DIDNT HAVE PIPPEN YET!!11!"

Oh, so he needed Pippen?

"NO HE DIDN'T HE COULD WIN WITH ANYONE!!1!"

Then Explain Jordan's 1-9.

"JORDONE WAS NOT 1-9 IT DIDNT COUNT HE DIDNT HAVE PIPPEN YET!!11!"

:lol

Rinse. Repeat.

[Hey Yo]

MJ tried to convince Krause to draft UNC teammate Joe Wolf instead of Pippen. Krause single-handedly saved MJ's legacy by going with Pippen.
Haven't heard that name in a long time.

[CountDracula]

https://i.ibb.co/7bBYWt3/082-EC23-F-83-CB-4458-87-D9-95-D0-BFFDA760.jpg (https://ibb.co/hCr7WFG)

https://i.ibb.co/LvhFzKY/0754-B54-C-0-ECF-44-CD-9137-67-B66168-ADE8.jpg (https://ibb.co/Fnqrbpm)

https://i.ibb.co/zQbPBhG/6218-DD7-F-6-C4-E-41-B0-928-E-70-E151841363.jpg (https://ibb.co/BcjTQVq)

https://i.ibb.co/3S0j7qR/DFAB2-D98-2-A45-4354-ACAD-E6-A4-B9-E700-F1.jpg (https://ibb.co/bNrCPZb)

[kawhileonard2]

Krause preferred Pippen over Wolf and as a result it saved MJ's legacy.

Joe Wolf would have been better than Pippen had he played with MJ while Pippen would have been working at Burger King.