Shaq and Kobe Finals and Western Conference Stats

[Lebron23]

https://scontent.fmnl13-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/291576821_566035115170195_8415013225966782550_n.jp g?_nc_cat=110&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=5cd70e&_nc_ohc=18SvT3hhY0MAX8OL0EM&_nc_ht=scontent.fmnl13-2.fna&oh=00_AfCGcUqESW309oIup-1i6_gWeyF4-1yKr3-NGCRP_kcI_w&oe=64725E15

Kobe Bryant averaged 23.3 points, 4.9 rebounds and 4.8 assists in 28 games with Shaquille O'Neal in Western Conference Finals in his career.

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/kobe-bryant-stats-in-western-conference-finals-with-shaq


Shaquille O'Neal averaged 26.9 points, 13.0 rebounds and 2.6 assists in 28 games with Kobe Bryant in Western Conference Finals in his career.

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask?q=shaquille+o%27neal+stats+in+western+conferen ce+finals+with+kobe

[Lebron23]

Kobe Bryant averaged 22.2 points, 5.2 rebounds and 4.9 assists in 19 games with Shaquille O'Neal in the NBA Finals in his career.

Shaquille O'Neal averaged 33.6 points, 14.2 rebounds and 3.2 assists in 19 games with Kobe Bryant in the NBA Finals in his career.

[ImKobe]

Another skewed stat which includes the '98 WCF where KB barely played due to injury

[Lebron23]

Another skewed stat which includes the '98 WCF where KB barely played due to injury

How about the NBA Finals??

[Baller789]

OP in full damage control. Has no other recourse but to go way back two decades. Dissing past legends doesnt elevate Lebron, get over it.

[3ba11]

When did Lebron defeat maximum defensive attention to win a ring? (carry scoring load on championship level)?

He's a PASSER and he's also too ball-dominant at carry-job volume to beat top teams - these 2 factors require all-time scorers at sidekick and can't win with secondary producers like Pau, Wiggins or Pippen.

Ultimately, Kobe wasn't a ball-dominator that imposed spot-up roles - he had expert jumpshooting skill, which allowed teammates to assist him (grow).. It also allowed ball movement for great teammate fits and strategic capacity/coaching, so he could win more with less.. Since Kobe's skillset needed less help and could win with secondary producers like Pau, he's superior to a ball-dominator like Lebron and his need for super-team help.

[Lebron23]

Shaq in his prime is Black Frieza

https://dragonball.fandom.com/wiki/Black_Frieza

[WhiteKyrie]

2004 WCF - Kobe > Shaq
Shaq: 21/16/3
Kobe: 24/4/6

2002 WCF - Shaq > Kobe
Shaq: 30/14/2
Kobe: 27/6/4

2001 WCF - Kobe > Shaq
Shaq: 27/13/3
Kobe: 33/7/7

2000 WCF - Shaq > Kobe
Shaq: 26/12/4
Kobe: 20/5/6

So equal. Kobe got 2 series better, Shaq got 2 series better.

Tie breaker, 2003 WCSF
Shaq: 25/14/4
Kobe: 32/5/4

And that one goes to Kobe.

[Hey Yo]

The above is why Kobe kids go-to is "the WCF was the REAL finals" cause his Finals numbers were shit, even with Shaq constantly getting doubled-triple teamed.

[ImKobe]

The above is why Kobe kids go-to is "the WCF was the REAL finals" cause his Finals numbers were shit, even with Shaq constantly getting doubled-triple teamed.

2000 is the only sub-par Finals KB had in those 3 runs and he got injured in the 1st quarter of Game 2. That ankle injury would have sidelined most players for the whole series. 25/8/6 against Philly wasn't bad, considering he only had one bad game out of the 4 too. That's on par with Lebron's 2013 Finals production-wise and Bran was terrible through his first 3 games with 16.7 ppg average. 2002 he averaged 27/6/5 on 62%TS.

[StrongLurk]

All I know is Kobe can't touch MJ. MJ is the GOAT and Kobe is stuck a tier below in the top 7-9 range.

[Airupthere]

OP in full damage control. Has no other recourse but to go way back two decades. Dissing past legends doesnt elevate Lebron, get over it.

The agenda is strong

[GimmeThat]

just couldn't run pick and rolls in the finals, especially with the off-season coming up. had to hate.

[Lebron23]

even in the western conference he is a terrible performer

[Lebron23]

https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4101/4920970629_7fb8758dbc_b.jpg

[Lebron23]

even in the western conference finals shaq was the better player

[WhiteKyrie]

It’s weird. Kobe was definitely a star but also definitely a sidekick in the 2000 Finals run. Clear cut sidekick. His coming out party was winning a game on the road when Shaq went out in Indiana. That was huge. And he was also injured in those Finals thanks to a dirty ass play intentional executed by Jalen Rose.

But by the 2001 season, Kobe was very much a superstar and very much a top 5 player in the sport. Not even arguable. Shaq, Duncan, KG, Kobe and Iverson. 5 best players in the league.

He also performed better than Shaq in the more meaningful round, the western conference finals, which was the REAL Finals. He did the same in 2002 as well.

Did Shaq put up way crazier numbers and especially in the Finals? Absolutely. But Kobe was 100% a co alpha caliber player in 2001 and 2002. They were a two headed monster for sure. That’s why they were so other worldly dominant.

It’s not fair to give Kobe the Shaq like credit for the 2000 ring. It’s also dishonest to not act like he wasn’t a full fledged superstar in 2001 and 2002 rings. A 29/5/5 player isn’t a sidekick star or a role player.

To be fair, for Kobe’s “alpha ring count” if you were to give 1 for full fledged undisputed or alpha caliber player ring, his ring total is a legitimate 4 for me.

[Soundwave]

2004 WCF - Kobe > Shaq
Shaq: 21/16/3
Kobe: 24/4/6

2002 WCF - Shaq > Kobe
Shaq: 30/14/2
Kobe: 27/6/4

2001 WCF - Kobe > Shaq
Shaq: 27/13/3
Kobe: 33/7/7

2000 WCF - Shaq > Kobe
Shaq: 26/12/4
Kobe: 20/5/6

So equal. Kobe got 2 series better, Shaq got 2 series better.

Tie breaker, 2003 WCSF
Shaq: 25/14/4
Kobe: 32/5/4

And that one goes to Kobe.

/end thread

After 2000 especially they were honestly basically a rotating 1A/1B with Shaq taking plenty of turns as the a 1B.

[WhiteKyrie]

/end thread

After 2000 especially they were honestly basically a rotating 1A/1B with Shaq taking plenty of turns as the a 1B.

Bingo, that's why they were so dominant. 2 top five (top 3) players on the same team in 2001, 2002, and 2003? So dominant. After Kobe became a legit superstar and top five player in 2001, it took a loaded Kings team top to bottom during that time to even present a challenge.

That's also why Shaq and Kobe's two personalities collided, they were both alpha franchise cornerstone talent players. It was starting to happen in Orlando with Penny, who wasn't even the type of aggressor Kobe was, and Shaq was petty then and ultimately used that as one of the reasons for him leaving Orlando as well.

And unlike Magic w/ Kareem, Bird w/ McHale, Zeke w/ Dumars, Jordan w/ Pippen, or Kobe w/ Gasol, where there was a clear cut hierarchy, and harmonious Alpha / Beta fit, that's why Shaq and Kobe justifiably beefed. It was bound to happen. Especially the difference in their competitiveness and work ethic.

The only rare exception of two alphas playing harmoniously without issue? Was LeBron and Wade. Because, Wade was slightly older big brother figure, who already was more successful than LeBron in the sport. They needed each other equally at that point in their careers, and they had an established actual friendship before becoming teammates, so they made it work. Wade was every bit as great as LeBron as a co alpha in 2011, but with his slight regression physically each year, and for the betterment of the team, Wade was magnanimous with his franchise in allowing LeBron to borrow the keys as the better player ascending into his prime. Which allowed Wade to ease into a more sidekick capacity with each passing year after 2011. But awkwardly though, it also never truly was LeBron's team and/or franchise.