Caleb Martin appreciation thread

[FultzNationRISE]

I was sayin last night in the game thread it was gonna be a shame either Tatum or Butler was gonna end up with all the “narrative credit” the next few days for the work Derrick White and Caleb Martin were doing that game.

Lets appreciate what someone besides the designated media stars did throughout that series to win it.

Hats off, Caleb Martin. Consistent three-level scoring punch all through the conference finals. Locked in and played hard. What a job he did.

:applause:

[ArbitraryWater]

Always looked at Vincent, Martin and Strus as serious ballers.

Very high end role players.

Deep ass team.

[ImKobe]

Caleb had a nice series and was definitely the 2nd best Heat player on offense in that series with 19 points on 73%TS. Butler ended up with 25/8/6/3 52%TS & only had 15 TOs in total in 7 games. Even though he shot 25% in G6 he had them in a position to win it at the end. His numbers in the 4 wins were great and he only had 1 bad game in the series.

[AlternativeAcc.]

Caleb had a nice series and was definitely the 2nd best Heat player on offense in that series with 19 points on 73%TS. Butler ended up with 25/8/6/3 52%TS & only had 15 TOs in total in 7 games. Even though he shot 25% in G6 he had them in a position to win it at the end. His numbers in the 4 wins were great and he only had 1 bad game in the series.
You mean his team, despite him shooting 3-19 and being atrocious for 45 minutes, were in a position to win after he started flopping and got calls late.

25ppg on 52%TS. Nice.


Team is loaded. This is a role player league.

[ImKobe]

You mean his team, despite him shooting 3-19 and being atrocious for 45 minutes, were in a position to win after he started flopping and got calls late.

25ppg on 52%TS. Nice.


Team is loaded. This is a role player league.

He made some shots in that 4th too. He had the best stats among all players in the series for the average. He was by far their best player in the first 2 games to open up that 2 - 0 lead when he shat all over Boston in those 4th quarters, and he also had a great 4th in G6 and showed up big time in G7.

You can call it a flop or w.e but he didn't get any calls all game but kept attacking in the 4th and put his team up at the end of Game 6. The 3PT attempt that he got fouled on wasn't a flop attempt, that was just a stupid foul by Horford and to Jimmy's credit he also made all 3 FTs no problem in the biggest moment of the series at the time. He was incredibly clutch in this series.

[ArbitraryWater]

He made some shots in that 4th too. He had the best stats among all players in the series for the average. He was by far their best player in the first 2 games to open up that 2 - 0 lead when he shat all over Boston in those 4th quarters, and he also had a great 4th in G6 and showed up big time in G7.

You can call it a flop or w.e but he didn't get any calls all game but kept attacking in the 4th and put his team up at the end of Game 6. The 3PT attempt that he got fouled on wasn't a flop attempt, that was just a stupid foul by Horford and to Jimmy's credit he also made all 3 FTs no problem in the biggest moment of the series at the time. He was incredibly clutch in this series.


I like Butler but this is just blah blah, he was 3/19 and still in a position to win it.

[AlternativeAcc.]

He made some shots in that 4th too. He had the best stats among all players in the series for the average. He was by far their best player in the first 2 games to open up that 2 - 0 lead when he shat all over Boston in those 4th quarters, and he also had a great 4th in G6 and showed up big time in G7.

You can call it a flop or w.e but he didn't get any calls all game but kept attacking in the 4th and put his team up at the end of Game 6. The 3PT attempt that he got fouled on wasn't a flop attempt, that was just a stupid foul by Horford and to Jimmy's credit he also made all 3 FTs no problem in the biggest moment of the series at the time. He was incredibly clutch in this series.

Most teams are getting blown out if the water if their star is 3-19 and playing like he did thru 45 minutes. Him and Tatum both have absurdly deep teams and Heat happen to be incredibly well coached.

Obviously Jimmy is great, but he's gotten way too much love in relation to his teammates after those massive games in the Bucks series.

If you said he'd average 25ppg on 52% before this series nobody would've thought they'd have had a chance.

Time to admit he has absurd help all-around. He's also great. Both can be true.

[GimmeThat]

the internet, where the uneducated requires representation.

[AlternativeAcc.]

2023 Heat and 2011 Mavs. Deep teams loaded with great role players

You take that over OKC Durant teams and current Suns 10 times out of 10. But low IQ fans don't get it. They think having one guy who can score a lot makes up for shit role players. Not how it works

[PeroAntic]

Caleb had a nice series and was definitely the 2nd best Heat player on offense in that series with 19 points on 73%TS. Butler ended up with 25/8/6/3 52%TS & only had 15 TOs in total in 7 games. Even though he shot 25% in G6 he had them in a position to win it at the end. His numbers in the 4 wins were great and he only had 1 bad game in the series.

This. Also, people still judge Jimmy's game through raw stats but its so much more. The entire Heat offense revolves around him and his decisions. He allows teammates to get hot by keeping them involved and he defers to them by playing off ball when its the case.

[ArbitraryWater]

2023 Heat and 2011 Mavs. Deep teams loaded with great role players

You take that over OKC Durant teams and current Suns 10 times out of 10. But low IQ fans don't get it. They think having one guy who can score a lot makes up for shit role players. Not how it works

The 2011 Mavs had 1 shot creator + Barea outside of Dirk :lol

[r0drig0lac]

the internet, where the uneducated requires representation.

lol

[Wally450]

Caleb not getting Conference Finals MVP is almost as bad as Pau not getting FMVP in 2010. Absolutely robbed.

[AlternativeAcc.]

The 2011 Mavs had 1 shot creator + Barea outside of Dirk :lol

Huh? They had epic ball movement, great shooting, great coaching, and role players who played great D and did all the little things right, just like the Heat.

Who is creating on offense for the Heat? They are creating with ball movement and shooting.

Dirk scored 25ppg on 40% in the finals with no defense. His team was obviously pretty good.

[GimmeThat]

They are creating with ball movement and shooting.



so they're creating without communication. team abortion much

[ArbitraryWater]

Huh? They had epic ball movement, great shooting, great coaching, and role players who played great D and did all the little things right, just like the Heat.

Who is creating on offense for the Heat? They are creating with ball movement and shooting.

Dirk scored 25ppg on 40% in the finals with no defense. His team was obviously pretty good.


Dirk makes all of that possible.

The team was nice, but if it was so good, why have historically no other players won a title with such a team before?

Interesting one, that.

[Overdrive]

2023 Heat and 2011 Mavs. Deep teams loaded with great role players

You take that over OKC Durant teams and current Suns 10 times out of 10. But low IQ fans don't get it. They think having one guy who can score a lot makes up for shit role players. Not how it works

Funny how you predicted both the Nets and Suns to be champs.

[nineiron]

I was sayin last night in the game thread it was gonna be a shame either Tatum or Butler was gonna end up with all the “narrative credit” the next few days for the work Derrick White and Caleb Martin were doing that game.

Lets appreciate what someone besides the designated media stars did throughout that series to win it.

Hats off, Caleb Martin. Consistent three-level scoring punch all through the conference finals. Locked in and played hard. What a job he did.

:applause:

that's rich coming from a bran stain

[AlternativeAcc.]

Dirk makes all of that possible.

The team was nice, but if it was so good, why have historically no other players won a title with such a team before?

Interesting one, that.

They have almost every year. Almost every championship team was loaded with great role players

You mean like Hakeem and Duncan's 2003 ring where on paper it looks like they don't have great help?

[AlternativeAcc.]

Funny how you predicted both the Nets and Suns to be champs.

That's called homerism and has nothing to do with this thread. Great contribution.

[Akeem34TheDream]

Huh? They had epic ball movement, great shooting, great coaching, and role players who played great D and did all the little things right, just like the Heat.

Who is creating on offense for the Heat? They are creating with ball movement and shooting.

Dirk scored 25ppg on 40% in the finals with no defense. His team was obviously pretty good.

Are you trying to say ball movement is better than one guy monopolizing the ball?

[ArbitraryWater]

They have almost every year. Almost every championship team was loaded with great role players

You mean like Hakeem and Duncan's 2003 ring where on paper it looks like they don't have great help?


Tell me what other team in history won with just 1 star.

The rest being a 6th man type (their only other good shot creator), veteran/smart PG, rim protector, and a bunch of spot-up shooters.



If thats such an awesome team, why havent other teams used this "formula" ?

[AlternativeAcc.]

Are you trying to say ball movement is better than one guy monopolizing the ball?

You need the personnel to play that way. But usually yes, if you have the adequate shooters and passers. Just like stars, role players come with different levels of ability and talent. Coaching helps, but you csnt force a guy to fit into that type of system if he lacks the skill set. Look at Oubre jr on the Warriors for example

Heat have done a phenomenal job scouting and acquiring the right guys.

[GimmeThat]

If thats such an awesome team, why havent other teams used this "formula" ?

you're just confused because Dirk was on the team, the Mavs probably had the highest arching shots in the paint and mid-range. who knows, an homage to Kareem perhaps

[AlternativeAcc.]

Tell me what other team in history won with just 1 star.

The rest being a 6th man type (their only other good shot creator), veteran/smart PG, rim protector, and a bunch of spot-up shooters.



If thats such an awesome team, why havent other teams used this "formula" ?

I already mentioned other teams that did, you must've missed that part.

Rick Barry had a much bigger carry job too in 75 too.

You got Barry > Dirk?

[GimmeThat]

Heat have done a phenomenal job scouting and acquiring the right guys.

still can't say the reason the Heat can't be stopped is because they are more talented huh

[ArbitraryWater]

I already mentioned other teams that did, you must've missed that part.

Rick Barry had a much bigger carry job too in 75 too.

You got Barry > Dirk?


what teams?

You got one so far with Rick Barry.


2 incidents in a 75 year history? Doesnt sound very proven.


Such an awesome team yet no star has EVER won with just rim protection + spot-up shooters and a sidekick thats a 6th man type. Where are those kind of championship teams?

[tontoz]

An incredible series for Caleb. Lights out shooting and a lot of hustle plays as well.

Unfortunately for him he is under contract next year under $7 million. :oldlol:

[GimmeThat]

Such an awesome team yet no star has EVER won with just rim protection + spot-up shooters and a sidekick thats a 6th man type. Where are those kind of championship teams?

you really want to claim that Dirk had the lowest final average of all championship teams?

[ArbitraryWater]

Im doing Kidd a favor naming him as a "veteran PG" lol.

Dude was a shell of his former self. Really declined that year.

7.9 ppg on 7.5 FGA. 50% TS. Upped his shooting to 40% in the playoffs, was at least 37% from 3.


He was basically one of the spot-up shooters and did some ballhandling.


As good as current lowry.

[AlternativeAcc.]

what teams?

You got one so far with Rick Barry.


2 incidents in a 75 year history? Doesnt sound very proven.


Such an awesome team yet no star has EVER won with just rim protection + spot-up shooters and a sidekick thats a 6th man type. Where are those kind of championship teams?

Keep living in denial bro. I'll let you think Dirk carried a trash roster. Most casual fans look at help the way you do too. Thats the point OP is trying to make ITT. But I know you know the game, you're just a Dirk Homer. You only have a casual view when talking about his team's

[ArbitraryWater]

Keep living in denial bro. I'll let you think Dirk carried a trash roster. Most casual fans look at help the way you do to. But I know you know the game, you're just a Dirk Homer. You only have a casual view when talking about his team's


What denial?


Youre acting like its a super good team that any superstar would want, yet you cant actually name any teams constructed this way that won the title.


Another question:

Why did they go 2-7 without Dirk?

[Axe]

You need the personnel to play that way. But usually yes, if you have the adequate shooters and passers. Just like stars, role players come with different levels of ability and talent. Coaching helps, but you csnt force a guy to fit into that type of system if he lacks the skill set. Look at Oubre jr on the Warriors for example

Heat have done a phenomenal job scouting and acquiring the right guys.
Heh, i can recall that curry stans here used to slam him for not being able to cater properly to their gerbil hero at all. :lol

[tontoz]

Heh, i can recall that curry stans here used to slam him for not being able to cater properly to their gerbil hero at all. :lol

Sad that Axe just has to bring up Curry in a thread that has nothing to do with him. :facepalm

[Axe]

Oops. Sorry to have ruined your day again, uncle. :ohwell:

[ImKobe]

I like Butler but this is just blah blah, he was 3/19 and still in a position to win it.

He scored 13 of the last 15 for Miami to bring them back & finished with 5/21 . Caleb was the best player in G6 don't get me wrong but Jimmy was right behind him. Martin can put the ball in the hoop but he doesn't set others up for as many shots like Jimmy does and Jimmy's a better defensive player too.

I don't know why we have to diminish Jimmy in order to give credit to Caleb. Like yeah, Caleb is supposed to be more efficient as a play-finisher when the Celtics defense is doing everything to limit Jimmy & Bam.

You can go look at the series numbers for yourself. There's a gap between Jimmy & Martin.

[tontoz]

Oops. Sorry to have ruined your day again, uncle. :ohwell:

My life doesn't revolve around Curry like yours does. I can go months without mentioning his name at all. You just have to bring him up because he is so important to you.

[BarberSchool]

You gotta seriously wonder how a good size, good wingspan, good athleticism swingman like Caleb Martin went undrafted in a draft class where countless other dudes who clearly have been absolute misses were drafted by worse organizations.

Caleb Martin def could have won ECF MVP, and he was an unknown just last month.

Sincere props to Caleb, his mother, and the Heat organization, for finding this diamond in the rough.


Huh? They had epic ball movement, great shooting, great coaching, and role players who played great D and did all the little things right, just like the Heat.

Who is creating on offense for the Heat? They are creating with ball movement and shooting.

Dirk scored 25ppg on 40% in the finals with no defense. His team was obviously pretty good.Dirk averaged 26/10 on 42% FG in the 2011 finals. But the finals was his worst series that post season run. He was great in the Lakers Sweep, in a way where all the aging tile players started believing they could really win the chip, and even better in the WCF.

Against the thunder was where he had the god mode WCF game 1, where Durant scored 40, but Dirk scored 48 and set the tone for the series and solidified the squad believing it was their year.

So the 26/10 on 42% finals was literally the least impressive series he had that post season.

[1987_Lakers]

I don't know why we have to diminish Jimmy

I don't know either.


These clowns actually thought Butler was better because of ONE fluke run :kobe: Lebron makes any opposing forward look like a superstar I guess.

[ImKobe]

I don't know either.

Wow cool. I'm sure if I cared enough I could dig up something you said years ago that doesn't apply any longer when we remove all context. You can't win a single argument against me in real time so you have to dig up old takes which no longer apply years down the line as I've already changed my opinion on the player.

I guess you're a genius for arguing against a point I made in 2020 with 3 years of hindsight. Good job.

[1987_Lakers]

I guess you're a genius for arguing against a point I made in 2020 with 3 years of hindsight. Good job.

You made that point in 2021, why lie?


These clowns actually thought Butler was better because of ONE fluke run :kobe: Lebron makes any opposing forward look like a superstar I guess.

:roll:

[ArbitraryWater]

He scored 13 of the last 15 for Miami to bring them back & finished with 5/21 . Caleb was the best player in G6 don't get me wrong but Jimmy was right behind him. Martin can put the ball in the hoop but he doesn't set others up for as many shots like Jimmy does and Jimmy's a better defensive player too.

I don't know why we have to diminish Jimmy in order to give credit to Caleb. Like yeah, Caleb is supposed to be more efficient as a play-finisher when the Celtics defense is doing everything to limit Jimmy & Bam.

You can go look at the series numbers for yourself. There's a gap between Jimmy & Martin.


You literally just have to admit that Butler was terrible that game and yet team gave him an opportunity to win it.

[AlternativeAcc.]

You gotta seriously wonder how a good size, good wingspan, good athleticism swingman like Caleb Martin went undrafted in a draft class where countless other dudes who clearly have been absolute misses were drafted by worse organizations.

Caleb Martin def could have won ECF MVP, and he was an unknown just last month.

Sincere props to Caleb, his mother, and the Heat organization, for finding this diamond in the rough.

Dirk averaged 26/10 on 42% FG in the 2011 finals. But the finals was his worst series that post season run. He was great in the Lakers Sweep, in a way where all the aging tile players started believing they could really win the chip, and even better in the WCF.

Against the thunder was where he had the god mode WCF game 1, where Durant scored 40, but Dirk scored 48 and set the tone for the series and solidified the squad believing it was their year.

So the 26/10 on 42% finals was literally the least impressive series he had that post season.

I know.

But they overcame his average for superstars performance in the finals because they were an elite cast. When you have elite casts you have more capacity to go off, its easier to go off when surrounded by high IQ complentary players, which explain Butler and Dirks great individual performances Moreso than the typical "he carried the team" narrative. There's a long history of stars getting too much credit which warps the fact that it's a team sport and the contributions from player 2-8 massively affect outcomes.

[ImKobe]

You literally just have to admit that Butler was terrible that game and yet team gave him an opportunity to win it.

If he didn't do what he did in the 4th they wouldn't have had a chance to win the game.

I just don't get the hate when he played well for the most part in these 4 close-out games. 1 bad game means he didn't deserve ECF MVP? He clearly was the best player in the series and the reason they had the 3 - 0 lead to begin with.

[BarberSchool]

the typical "he carried the team" narrative. There's a long history of stars getting too much credit which warps the fact that it's a team sport and the contributions from player 2-8 massively affect outcomes.You can say that again.

The outright intellectual laziness and golden calf nature, of our mainstream US media is blatantly disgusting and they don’t care to even consider pitching other, more apropos, more truthful narratives. They just have a certain number of scripts they simply fill in blanks for, it’s truly shameful to the subjects covered.

I’ll kick that dead horse with you until our feet hurt.

[ArbitraryWater]

If he didn't do what he did in the 4th they wouldn't have had a chance to win the game.

I just don't get the hate when he played well for the most part in these 4 close-out games. 1 bad game means he didn't deserve ECF MVP? He clearly was the best player in the series and the reason they had the 3 - 0 lead to begin with.


Youre literally insane :oldlol:


He shot 5/21 and still had a chance to win the game, and you try to call others haters for dismissing this performance?

Come on dude. At best youre fooling yourself. No one else.


Just say he was trash and the team picked him up and move on. Its easy.

[Axe]

My life doesn't revolve around Curry like yours does. I can go months without mentioning his name at all. You just have to bring him up because he is so important to you.
Lmao no. I don't even create threads about him all the time. :oldlol:

[ImKobe]

Youre literally insane :oldlol:


He shot 5/21 and still had a chance to win the game, and you try to call others haters for dismissing this performance?

Come on dude. At best youre fooling yourself. No one else.


Just say he was trash and the team picked him up and move on. Its easy.

I mean if you ignore his passing or his FTs and just focus in on the FG%, sure.

The overall arching point is that he deserved ECF MVP. He was the best player in the series. I don't care about anything else.

[tontoz]

Lmao no. I don't even create threads about him all the time. :oldlol:

You just bring him up in completely unrelated threads, like the Caleb Martin thread. :lol

[JohnMax]

https://ftw.usatoday.com/2023/05/jimmy-butler-caleb-martin-larry-bird-trophy-heat-celtics

The six-time All-Star edged out the former undrafted free agent by just a single vote, 5-4, to win the 2023 Larry Bird Trophy.

ESPN’s Tim Bontemps and Doris Burke, TNT, Reggie Miller, Yahoo’s Ben Rohrbach, and Sun Sentinel writer Ira Winderman all cast votes for Butler. AP’s Tim Reynolds, NBA.com’s John Schumann, The Athletic’s Joe Vardon, and Boston Globe writer Gary Washburn voted for Martin.

[Axe]

You just bring him up in completely unrelated threads, like the Caleb Martin thread. :lol
Okay sure. But only because someone here mentioned something related to him. Not that it came from out of nowhere. ;)

[tontoz]

Okay sure. But only because someone here mentioned something related to him. Not that it came from out of nowhere. ;)

You will always find an excuse to bring him up because he is always on your mind.

[BarberSchool]

https://ftw.usatoday.com/2023/05/jimmy-butler-caleb-martin-larry-bird-trophy-heat-celtics

The six-time All-Star edged out the former undrafted free agent by just a single vote, 5-4, to win the 2023 Larry Bird Trophy.

ESPN’s Tim Bontemps and Doris Burke, TNT, Reggie Miller, Yahoo’s Ben Rohrbach, and Sun Sentinel writer Ira Winderman all cast votes for Butler. AP’s Tim Reynolds, NBA.com’s John Schumann, The Athletic’s Joe Vardon, and Boston Globe writer Gary Washburn voted for Martin.
We gotta ask ourselves why only one ex-nba player is on that list of votes ?
And Reggie’s dumb azz voted for Butler ?

Think about this, you’re a very lazy writer, for newspaper X.
You have written countless stories about a veteran NBA star, and know all the details and life story to crank out a new article on that veteran star, in 20min.

You know nothing about this new dude who deserves the accolade more, but don’t wanna bother with doing all the research to write the article before tmrw….

See where the conflict of interest is for these spoiled overrated writers getting all these votes? Should be exclusively ex-nba players voting, not some dude who couldn’t even play college ball.

[Axe]

You will always find an excuse to bring him up because he is always on your mind.
Lmao you get too much affected by it, uncle. I do see your point tho.

[PeroAntic]

Saying Martin was the MVP ahead of Butler is like saying Danny Green was the MVP for the Spurs in 2013 and not Kawhi/Parker. These are role players that get hot, but in order to do that they need someone like Butler to keep them engaged and draw attention to himself.

[Lebron23]

he is struggling so far in the NBA Finals after averaging 19.3 ppg in the Conference Finals. He is averaging 6.8 ppg in the 2023 NBA Finals.

[Wally450]

he is struggling so far in the NBA Finals after averaging 19.3 ppg in the Conference Finals. He is averaging 6.8 ppg in the 2023 NBA Finals.

The Celtics really let did dude go off on them. :facepalm :facepalm