temporarily suspends the debt limit

[Doomsday Dallas]

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/05/29/business/debt-ceiling-agreement.html


The full legislative text of Speaker Kevin McCarthy’s agreement in principle with President Biden to suspend the nation’s borrowing limit revealed new and important details about the deal, which House lawmakers are expected to vote on this week.


The deal suspends the nation’s $31.4 trillion borrowing limit until Jan. 2025. Suspending the debt limit for a period of time is different than setting it at a new fixed level. It essentially gives the Treasury Department the latitude to borrow as much money as it needs to pay the nation’s bills during that time period, plus a few months after the limit is reached, as the department employs accounting maneuvers to keep up payments.



are we seriously about to give Democrats a blank check?

[Off the Court]

Don't kid yourself, it's always been a blank check. And no one spends more than the GOP does anyway.

[GimmeThat]

the plan for making computer chips with government subsidies for who knows what reasons, didn't pan out.


it's like watching the police ask for more traffic lights to put in the middle of the road because people are speeding. you can tell they think like a dog.

[oldtimer28]

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/05/29/business/debt-ceiling-agreement.html







are we seriously about to give Democrats a blank check?

It is beyond absurd. I do not know how the U.S can recover from this debt and fatal philosophy of borrowing more with no end in sight.

[Doomsday Dallas]

Don't kid yourself, it's always been a blank check.


No... it hasn't.

Our Debt to GDP ratio hasn't always been above 100%...



https://bigthink.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/02/GDPDebt2021_1800px_Finalized.jpeg






Just curious why Ukraine doesn't have a higher debt to GDP ratio if we are sending them money.

Why can't they just print billions of dollars and fund their own war?

I don't understand.

[oldtimer28]

No... it hasn't.

Our Debt to GDP ratio hasn't always been above 100%...



https://bigthink.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/02/GDPDebt2021_1800px_Finalized.jpeg






Just curious why Ukraine doesn't have a higher debt to GDP ratio if we are sending them money.

Why can't they just print billions of dollars and fund their own war?

I don't understand.

Great questions

Would love to see Biden asked these reopeatedly until he gives a proper answer.

[BurningHammer]

No... it hasn't.

Our Debt to GDP ratio hasn't always been above 100%...



https://bigthink.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/02/GDPDebt2021_1800px_Finalized.jpeg






Just curious why Ukraine doesn't have a higher debt to GDP ratio if we are sending them money.

Why can't they just print billions of dollars and fund their own war?

I don't understand.

TIL Japan is having worse debt problems than Greece :eek:

[Off the Court]

Debt-to-GDP is different than the debt ceiling, which has never been real, and always gets raised when the situation calls for it. That graphic that Doomsy posted is proof that debt-to-gdp doesn't mean much. Japan doesn't care what Japan owes is the debt is owed to Japan itself. And that is what is important when looking at national debts, the public debt vs the private debt.

[HoopsNY]

Debt-to-GDP is different than the debt ceiling, which has never been real, and always gets raised when the situation calls for it. That graphic that Doomsy posted is proof that debt-to-gdp doesn't mean much. Japan doesn't care what Japan owes is the debt is owed to Japan itself. And that is what is important when looking at national debts, the public debt vs the private debt.

Japan's situation is not sustainable, especially with falling birth rates. They are literally crippling their entire society with high taxation and low birth rates due to people constantly having to work to sustain their society. Eventually, the bottom falls out. Japan will never repay their debts. In fact, their society won't exist in less than 100 years at this rate.

[Doomsday Dallas]

Debt-to-GDP is different than the debt ceiling, which has never been real, and always gets raised when the situation calls for it. That graphic that Doomsy posted is proof that debt-to-gdp doesn't mean much. Japan doesn't care what Japan owes is the debt is owed to Japan itself. And that is what is important when looking at national debts, the public debt vs the private debt.

So I guess inflation isn’t real either?

Or let me guess, because most Americans can survive a 5-10% inflation rate, it doesn’t mean much either?

Does the Fed raising interest rates mean much?

[Off the Court]

So I guess inflation isn’t real either?

Or let me guess, because most Americans can survive a 5-10% inflation rate, it doesn’t mean much either?

Does the Fed raising interest rates mean much?

When did I say any of that? Those are completely different topics.

https://www.mercatus.org/sites/default/files/d7/debt-ceiling-history-jpg-new.jpg


How about you tell me what is the point of having a debt ceiling, when we raise it every time we hit that ceiling?

[Doomsday Dallas]

When did I say any of that? Those are completely different topics.

https://www.mercatus.org/sites/default/files/d7/debt-ceiling-history-jpg-new.jpg


How about you tell me what is the point of having a debt ceiling, when we raise it every time we hit that ceiling?

It’s so the value of the dollar doesn’t go to shit… that’s why there needs to be a limit.

The average salary doesn’t go up 3% per year… inflation is about 2-3% per year, but what about the average salary?

The Fed, and their out of control spending, only hurts the dollar…. So essentially all those low-income families that Democrats love to protect, are only get hurt with every bailout stimulus package.

[Off the Court]

It’s so the value of the dollar doesn’t go to shit… that’s why there needs to be a limit.

The average salary doesn’t go up 3% per year… inflation is about 2-3% per year, but what about the average salary?

The Fed, and their out of control spending, only hurts the dollar…. So essentially all those low-income families that Democrats love to protect, are only get hurt with every bailout stimulus package.

Again, what is the point of the ceiling if we always raise the ceiling?

It has always been a blank check.

[Doomsday Dallas]

Again, what is the point of the ceiling if we always raise the ceiling?


So if raising the ceiling year after year after year is the wrong move… the correct path to take is to remove the ceiling? Lmao.

And yea… you are correct about the GOP spending more than Dems… this was a top priority for Bill Clinton, but he must have been an idiot for realizing that the National Debt is a serious problem.

It’s unsustainable, and it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to understand that fact. The moment our GDP goes to shit, unemployment starts to go up, and the government is stuck with trillions in unfunded liabilities… might as well be called the socialist states of America at that point.

Sorry dude, I know todays Democrat loves to believe we have unlimited funds to pay for everybody’s college and healthcare, but the end result is inflation, and wages do not keep up with inflation.


And also the dollar was once backed up by gold… hasn’t always been a blank check

[Off the Court]

So if raising the ceiling year after year after year is the wrong move… the correct path to take is to remove the ceiling? Lmao.

It's never been a real thing, it's already removed.

I will ask you a 3rd time. What is the point of having a debt ceiling, if we always raise the debt ceiling?

We never actually stay under the ceiling and we always just raise it higher. So why do you want it there?

[iamgine]

It's never been a real thing, it's already removed.

I will ask you a 3rd time. What is the point of having a debt ceiling, if we always raise the debt ceiling?

We never actually stay under the ceiling and we always just raise it higher. So why do you want it there?

It provides an opportunity for lawmakers to debate and discuss the level of debt and the government's spending priorities. It forces policymakers to evaluate and justify the need for additional borrowing

[Off the Court]

It provides an opportunity for lawmakers to debate and discuss the level of debt and the government's spending priorities. It forces policymakers to evaluate and justify the need for additional borrowing

It's a budget review that we never ever abide by?

Every time a bill passes that gives us the ability to print up trillions it is reviewed and voted on anyway.

[HoopsNY]

It's never been a real thing, it's already removed.

I will ask you a 3rd time. What is the point of having a debt ceiling, if we always raise the debt ceiling?

We never actually stay under the ceiling and we always just raise it higher. So why do you want it there?

That's like saying what's the point of me having a credit limit if I always go over it. Obviously as an individual, I need to have a limit to work with to at least gauge and decrease my own spending. Why would the government be any different?

[Doomsday Dallas]

It's never been a real thing, it's already removed.

I will ask you a 3rd time. What is the point of having a debt ceiling, if we always raise the debt ceiling?

We never actually stay under the ceiling and we always just raise it higher. So why do you want it there?


What is the point of having a debt ceiling? It's to keep our finances in check. It's called a budget.

What are you arguing here? that there shouldn't be a limit to how much the government can spend?

The Debt Ceiling was suspended for 2 years.... from July of 2019 to July of 2021

H.R.3877 - Bipartisan Budget Act of 2019

In those 2 years the, thanks in part to Covid, the national debt skyrocketed from $21T to $29T,... the debt limit was suspended during that time.


In August 2019, then-President Trump signed the Bipartisan Budget Act of 2019, which suspended the debt ceiling through July 31, 2021. The legislation also lifted spending caps on federal agency budgets, while ensuring that the government could pay its bills in the short term.10 Suspending the ceiling in this manner eliminated the risk of default for another two years, increasing spending to $320 billion for the 2020 and 2021 fiscal years.11 The debt ceiling was once again raised, to $31.4 trillion, in December 2021.

https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/640/cpsprodpb/13899/production/_128352008_optimised-debt-ceiling-nc.png






When have we ever added 30% to the National Debt in a matter of two years?

If there was ever a curve that needed to be flattened... it's the national debt...

and this was the most notable achievement of Bill Clinton's presidency.

[Doomsday Dallas]

No debt limit in place.... expect a crisis soon..... and it will probably be on the West Coast.

There will magically be some reason for the Federal Government to funnel trillions to their Democratic socialist friends on the West Coast.

https://www.azquotes.com/picture-quotes/quote-you-never-let-a-serious-crisis-go-to-waste-and-what-i-mean-by-that-it-s-an-opportunity-rahm-emanuel-8-91-00.jpg

[Off the Court]

What is the point of having a debt ceiling? It's to keep our finances in check. It's called a budget.

What are you arguing here? that there shouldn't be a limit to how much the government can spend?


There is no budget, there never has been. You can't see that?

The debt ceiling didn't keep Bill Clinton in check. Bill Clinton kept Bill Clinton in check.

The only people that actually do try to limit our spending is the Fed and they don't care about the ceiling. In fact when Powell is asked about it he more or less responds with "that is their problem not mine".

[Off the Court]

That's like saying what's the point of me having a credit limit if I always go over it. Obviously as an individual, I need to have a limit to work with to at least gauge and decrease my own spending. Why would the government be any different?

Completely different for many reasons. Most notably you owe a bank that money, where the government just prints it up and owes themselves that money, they only limit to fight inflation.

But also for that comparison to work it would mean that your bank keeps raising your debt limit when you go over, meaning that you never ever stay within your budget anyway. You are ignoring your budget completely, which is what our government does.

[iamgine]

It's a budget review that we never ever abide by?

Every time a bill passes that gives us the ability to print up trillions it is reviewed and voted on anyway.

Not sure where the misunderstanding is. Are you saying debt ceiling should never be raised?

[Nanners]

Completely different for many reasons. Most notably you owe a bank that money, where the government just prints it up and owes themselves that money, they only limit to fight inflation.

But also for that comparison to work it would mean that your bank keeps raising your debt limit when you go over, meaning that you never ever stay within your budget anyway. You are ignoring your budget completely, which is what our government does.

The government doesnt print money. The federal reserve (a private bank) prints money and then loans it to the government at interest.

Most countries have this system of reserve banking, which is why the total global debt held by nations worldwide massively outweighs the total surplus debt owned by nations... aside from a small handful of countries (that all happen to be run by evil tyrants and need the US to bomb them into "democracy") most nations owe money to their own private for profit banks.

If you try to balance out every nation that holds a national debt with all the nations that are owed money, you will find that the debt outweighs the owed money by 100x or more - this is because most nations dont owe money to each other, they owe it to their own private for profit reserve banks that print the nations money and then loan it to them.

[oldtimer28]

Nanners and Doomsday. Great posts. True and I agree with you both.

[HoopsNY]

The government doesnt print money. The federal reserve (a private bank) prints money and then loans it to the government at interest.

Most countries have this system of reserve banking, which is why the total global debt held by nations worldwide massively outweighs the total surplus debt owned by nations... aside from a small handful of countries (that all happen to be run by evil tyrants and need the US to bomb them into "democracy") most nations owe money to their own private for profit banks.

If you try to balance out every nation that holds a national debt with all the nations that are owed money, you will find that the debt outweighs the owed money by 100x or more - this is because most nations dont owe money to each other, they owe it to their own private for profit reserve banks that print the nations money and then loan it to them.

Bingo. Pretty scary times that we're living in when someone thinks we can just continuously print money and that we don't need a debt ceiling because other countries don't have it. The world has truly gone mad and that tipping point will be a point of no return, eventually.

[Off the Court]

The Fed isn't looking to collect on their debt, the only danger in printing money is inflation. Once inflation is under control and it is close, they will open up the flood gates again. It isn't just "most other countries" that do this, it is every country.

The only part of the national debt that matters is the foreign and our debt to other countries is shrinking. We've basically cut our debt to China in half over the last decade.

The Fed actually played covid beautifully. The US Dollar has gained ground on every other country.

https://global-uploads.webflow.com/61ea4a526864d021a5ef3bfc/6319a625efa96c5809b86062_MrjRe9duEH0z6bh7xVy3Iy-NfED_lzcE86pvynKgRu6vrw4iFaFmOwJQnEwMBOVd4wnBf5NWU m-IML40tDSbNiVDRY1eB2DfocJ7X0CHd6nr7paG1SuqVJ2tOo1TX jmGGGQNboSPb1cKzb7j6wHhJssHmdHIxA%3Ds0-d-e1-ft.jpeg