Could he build a baby lottery team to title contention? Was Pippen franchise player?

[3ba11]

Please state your reasons below (as I did).

Any team with Pippen as the best scorer will fall out of contention quickly due to lack of talent, even a 3-peat dynasty as we saw in 1995.. Pippen's system scoring capability and one-off after inheriting a goat dynasty can't be compared to dominant producers that carry franchises for decades like Embiid, Malone or Ewing.

[AlternativeAcc.]

Technically Melo is a better 1st option but nobody would want him over pippin as 2nd option, unless you have a low IQ. Especially with a high usage 1st option

You have a very rudimentary understanding of the game

[3ba11]

Technically Melo is a better 1st option but nobody would want him over pippin as 2nd option, unless you have a low IQ. Especially with a high usage 1st option

You have a very rudimentary understanding of the game


2nd options are generally inferior to 1st options and franchise players

so Pippen shouldn't be top 30 all-time or anywhere near, but the winning spotlight inflates him to all-time status.

And Pippen was only a 2nd option alongside the goat scorer, otherwise he was a 3rd to 7th option in Houston or Portland - it didn't take much to supplant Pippen as 2nd option.. Kukoc led the Bulls in clutch and 4th quarter points for the 98' Playoffs and probably 96' as well (but we don't have the 96' numbers, although we do know that Pippen had the worst efficiency ever for a playoff run of 15 games and 35 MPG in the 96' and 98' Playoffs, aka goat bricklaying and lane-clogging).

[Full Court]

Pippen was one of the best second options ever. Complimented MJ's playing very well. But no MJ, no rings for him. He wouldn't have carried a team that far as the top dog.

[3ba11]

Pippen was one of the best second options ever. Complimented MJ's playing very well. But no MJ, no rings for him. He wouldn't have carried a team that far as the top dog.


Let's say MJ has a boating accident in the summer of 1987, so there's no MJ heading into the 87-88' season..

How far would baby Pippen build up the 88' Bulls thereafter?

Or here's another way to look at it - what if Jordan misses "the shot" in 1989, so the Bulls are just 1st Round losers instead of ECF veterans and title contenters??.. These carry-jobs from 88-90' allowed the Bulls to get deep playoff runs that built them into champions - Pippen can't come close to that - Jordan averaged 37 ppg on those playoff runs.. So getting the Bulls to championship status wasn't some pedestrian thing that anyone could do - it was a herculean effort achieved by the GOAT... The stats back up what I'm saying (carry-job), not what others say.

[AlternativeAcc.]

2nd options are generally inferior to 1st options and franchise players

so Pippen shouldn't be top 30 all-time or anywhere near, but the winning spotlight inflates him to all-time status.

And Pippen was only a 2nd option alongside the goat scorer, otherwise he was a 3rd to 7th option in Houston or Portland - it didn't take much to supplant Pippen as 2nd option.. Kukoc led the Bulls in clutch and 4th quarter points for the 98' Playoffs and probably 96' as well (but we don't have the 96' numbers, although we do know that Pippen had the worst efficiency ever for a playoff run of 15 games and 35 MPG in the 96' and 98' Playoffs, aka goat bricklaying and lane-clogging).

Elite 2nd options are more valuable than 1st options who can't win which seems counterintuitive, but it makes sense

"first options" and "franchise players" are a dime a dozen. Beal, Melo, Harden all classify as 1st options and franchise players. But they dont win under any circumstance, whereas if you have an elite 2nd option, you can either draft, sign, or trade for a quality 1st option/franchise player


This is well known amongst people who know ball.


Using Pau/Pippen as an example of "bad help" when comparing established upper echelon 1st options is just bad trolling

[3ba11]

Elite 2nd options are more valuable than 1st options who can't win which seems counterintuitive, but it makes sense

"first options" and "franchise players" are a dime a dozen. Beal, Melo, Harden all classify as 1st options and franchise players. But they dont win under any circumstance, whereas if you have an elite 2nd option, you can either draft, sign, or trade for a quality 1st option/franchise player


This is well known amongst people who know ball.


Using Pau/Pippen as an example of "bad help" when comparing established upper echelon 1st options is just bad trolling


Losing 1st options like Harden are still more capable of leading a team than 2nd options.

But not every 1st option is a loser.. Some 1st options are good enough to win and the winning spotlight inflates their sidekicks to media accolade.

So there's 2 categories of sidekicks - sidekicks either get lucky and land alongside a goat 1st option like Curry or Jordan where the winning spotlight yields media accolade, or they land alongside a losing 1st option like Harden (no media accolade)

[AlternativeAcc.]

Losing 1st options like Harden are still more capable of leading a team than 2nd options.

But not every 1st option is a loser.. Some 1st options are good enough to win and the winning spotlight inflates their sidekicks to media accolade.

So there's 2 categories of sidekicks - sidekicks either get lucky and land alongside a goat 1st option like Curry or Jordan where the winning spotlight yields media accolade, or they land alongside a losing 1st option like Harden (no media accolade)

Not to a championship, so it's more valuable to have an elite 2nd option like Pippen who can win with a high tier 1st option that can be drafted, signed, or traded for


Nobody is taking Harden, Beal, or Melo next to Jordan. Diminishing returns on offense, negatives on defense and intangibles. So it's a net loss and your theory goes down the toilet

And LeBron gets MORE credit for winning with hobbled wade and one-dimensional Irving, because it's harder to do.

[3ba11]

Not to a championship, so it's more valuable to have an elite 2nd option like Pippen who can win with a high tier 1st option that can be drafted, signed, or traded for





You need a 1st option before you can get a 2nd option, so the 2nd option in inherently less valuable.

And Pippen was only a 2nd option alongside the goat scorer, otherwise he wasn't a sufficient scorer to be in a 2nd option role.






Nobody is taking Harden, Beal, or Melo next to Jordan.





Off-ball players and expert jumpshooters put the ball in teammates' hands and therefore fit with anyone - jumpshooters don't have bad fits because they facilitate ball movement - there's no ball-dominator and spot-up shooter dynamic.

That's why you never heard about bad fits with jumpshooters like Bird, Curry, Jordan, Dirk, Kawhi, or Kobe, while the story of ball-dominators like Lebron is bad fits.






And LeBron gets MORE credit for winning with hobbled wade and one-dimensional Irving, because it's harder to do.





Lebron mostly lost wherever he went, so he isn't capable of having a team that mostly wins, regardless of cast or situation.. 20 years of longevity confirms that he's literally a loser.