A clear trend with Curry & Lebron that shows the team ceilings yielded by each player

[3ba11]

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* Curry yielded a Finals favorite or champion every year from 2015 to 2019 (5 yrs)

* Lebron yielded a Finals underdog or loser every year from 2011-2018 (except the Allen miracle)


So Curry's skillset yields perennial favorites or winners with Klay, while Lebron's skillset yields perennial underdog and losers with Wade, AD, Kyrie plus star 3rd options.

Lebron's skillset simply needs a lot more help and apparently yields underdogs and losers regardless of cast.

This isn't random - Lebron's low team ceilings is due to his suboptimal skillset, aka lack of expert jumpshooting skill coupled with abnormal ball-dominance for his size/position, which imposes spot-up roles - the imposition of spot-up roles doesn't develop teammates, fits or strategic capacity/coaching, thereby needing more help and having lower team ceilings/Finals records, aka 22-33 in Finals games, or 20-21 excluding 07/15/18 (lottery record on the championship level regardless of cast).

[Axe]

1-9

[StrongLurk]

I think Derek Fisher-ball is better than Curry.

Fisher-ball yielded five rings and the second most playoff wins all time. Fisher has more rings and playoff wins than Curry, PLUS Fisher has way more clutch moments in the playoffs and finals. Fisher even bailed out Kobe and Shaq multiple times.

This video doesn't even have all of Fisher-balls clutch moments, but it's more the Curry https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xwu-TQ-6AtE.

Lebron on the other hand has the most playoff wins all time and the most playoff buzzer beaters of all time. Curry simply can't match Lebron or Fisher-ball.

[3ba11]

I think Derek Fisher-ball is better than Curry.

Fisher-ball yielded five rings and the second most playoff wins all time. Fisher has more rings and playoff wins than Curry, PLUS Fisher has way more clutch moments in the playoffs and finals. Fisher even bailed out Kobe and Shaq multiple times.

This video doesn't even have all of Fisher-balls clutch moments, but it's more the Curry https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xwu-TQ-6AtE.

Lebron on the other hand has the most playoff wins all time and the most playoff buzzer beaters of all time. Curry simply can't match Lebron or Fisher-ball.


Was Fisher a 1st option?

Because that's what we're looking at here - 1st options

[StrongLurk]

Was Fisher a 1st option?

Because that's what we're looking at here - 1st options

When was Curry winning as a first option during 2015-2019? He only won in 2015 do to injuries to Love and Kyrie. Then he lost in 2016 when the Cavs were healthy (and this is with the 2016 team being much better than 2015). Then 2017-2019, Durant was the first option/FMVP winner. He would've got a third straight if he didn't blow out his achilles.

So your entire premise is flawed no matter what.

Regardless, Fisher-ball yielded five rings, many clutch moments, and the second most playoff wins ever. Curry doesn't compare.

[3ba11]

When was Curry winning as a first option during 2015-2019? He only won in 2015 do to injuries to Love and Kyrie. Then he lost in 2016 when the Cavs were healthy (and this is with the 2016 team being much better than 2015). Then 2017-2019, Durant was the first option/FMVP winner. He would've got a third straight if he didn't blow out his achilles.

So your entire premise is flawed no matter what.

Regardless, Fisher-ball yielded five rings, many clutch moments, and the second most playoff wins ever. Curry doesn't compare.


Boston was missing their best player in 2018, yet Lebron gets more credit for beating that garbage team than anything he did in his entire career.

So Curry's ring in 2015 stands, especially since he won with a non-franchise player at sidekick (secondary producer at sidekick), while also defeating maximum defensive attention (carrying scoring load on championship level), which Lebron has never done*

Btw, Dwight gets no credit when his injured team won as the underdog - so we see a pattern - you give credit to Lebron for beating injured teams (but no credit when Curry does it) and then DON'T give credit when injured teams win (Dwight).

* Lebron can't carry scoring load on the championship level because his passing style needs more scoring help, while also being too ball-dominant at carry-job volume to beat top teams - this is why he never beat ANY top 5 SRS team with weak scoring & efficiency from a sidekick

[StrongLurk]

Boston was missing their best player in 2018, yet Lebron gets more credit for beating that garbage team than anything he did in his entire career.

So Curry's ring in 2015 stands, especially since he defeated maximum defensive attention (carried scoring load on championship level), which Lebron has never done*

Btw, Dwight gets no credit when his injured team won as the underdog - so we see a patter - you give credit to Lebron for beating injured teams (but no credit when Curry does it) and then DON'T give credit when injured teams win (Dwight).

* Lebron can't carry scoring load on the championship level because his passing style needs more scoring help, while also being too ball-dominant at carry-job volume to beat top teams - this is why he never beat ANY top 5 SRS team with weak scoring & efficiency from a sidekick

Everyone has won against a marginally injured team before (2018 Celtics had 7 other players averaged double digit points besides Kyrie and they made it to the ECF without him playing a single game), but the injury loss in the FINALS to the 2015 Cavs was egregious. Everyone recognizes that the 2015 Warriors caught a massive break and Curry underperformed in those finals. He literally lost the FMVP to his 6th man :roll:. We also saw what happened when his own team faced bad injuries by the time the 2019 finals rolled around (no Durant and Klay got hurt at the end). Curry took the L.

So ultimately no one cares about Curry's performances 2015-2019 because he wasn't the first option or best player in any of them. Lebron/KD overshadowed him and it was plain as day. Curry didn't win a single FMVP or ring as the clear best player/first option.

Regardless, Fisher-ball yielded five rings, many clutch moments, and the second most playoff wins ever. Curry doesn't compare.

[tpols]

When was Curry winning as a first option during 2015-2019? He only won in 2015 do to injuries to Love and Kyrie. Then he lost in 2016 when the Cavs were healthy (and this is with the 2016 team being much better than 2015). Then 2017-2019, Durant was the first option/FMVP winner. He would've got a third straight if he didn't blow out his achilles.

So your entire premise is flawed no matter what.

Regardless, Fisher-ball yielded five rings, many clutch moments, and the second most playoff wins ever. Curry doesn't compare.

If you're going to compare Derek Fisher to Curry in those years he was a superstar you're just a retard bro.

This is about the dumbest "trump" card I've ever seen pulled.

[3ba11]

Everyone has won against a marginally injured team before (2018 Celtics had 7 other players averaged double digit points besides Kyrie and they made it to the ECF without him playing a single game), but the injury loss in the FINALS to the 2015 Cavs was egregious. Everyone recognizes that the 2015 Warriors caught a massive break and Curry underperformed in those finals. He literally lost the FMVP to his 6th man :roll:. We also saw what happened when his own team faced bad injuries by the time the 2019 finals rolled around (no Durant and Klay got hurt at the end). Curry took the L.

So ultimately no one cares about Curry's performances 2015-2019 because he wasn't the first option or best player in any of them. Lebron/KD overshadowed him and it was plain as day. Curry didn't win a single FMVP or ring as the clear best player/first option.

Regardless, Fisher-ball yielded five rings, many clutch moments, and the second most playoff wins ever. Curry doesn't compare.


Kyrie was the difference-maker in 2016 compared to 2015, and he obviously would've been the difference-maker for the 2018 Celtics

Lebron is simply a fraud, so he got credit for beating an injured team when no one else does because they aren't miscovered by the media like Lebron is... :confusedshrug:

Regarding Curry, his 2015 Finals was tougher than any of Lebron's Finals because Lebron never won a Finals with a non-franchise player at sidekick or a sidekick getting less than 20 ppg, while the Warriors were 1st-timers in the Finals - the only team of 1st-timers to win since the 91' Bulls (every player was a 1st-timer in the Finals).. Curry also defeated max defensive attention (carried scoring load on championship level), which Lebron never did.. So for all these clear-cut reasons, Curry's 2015 title is superior to any title that Lebron ever won.. And Curry's first title spearheaded a new era of basketball

[StrongLurk]

Kyrie was the difference-maker in 2016 compared to 2015, and he obviously would've been the difference-maker for the 2018 Celtics

Lebron is simply a fraud, so he got credit for beating an injured team when no one else does because they aren't miscovered by the media like Lebron is... :confusedshrug:

Regarding Curry, his 2015 Finals was tougher than any of Lebron's Finals because Lebron never won a Finals with a non-franchise player at sidekick or a sidekick getting less than 20 ppg, while the Warriors were the only team of 1st-timers to win since the 91' Bulls (every player was a 1st-timer in the Finals).. Curry also defeated max defensive attention (carried scoring load on championship level), which Lebron never did.. So for all these clear-cut reasons, Curry's 2015 title is superior to any title that Lebron ever won.. And Curry's first title spearheaded a new era of basketball

More bullcrap from you. Kyrie has been a cancer and team killer everywhere he's gone after the Cavs. The 2018 Celtics core has made like 4 ECF and a finals appearance without Kyrie.

Also It's hilarious you trying to discredit Lebron for the 2018 ECF. He massive carried that Cavs team by outscoring his second option (Kevin Love) by 21ppg and out-assisting his second option by 6 APG. Love also didn't even play game 7.

You'll never win any Curry vs Lebron discussions because you have to resort to trolling like usual.

[Hey Yo]

Kobe zero rings without Fisher.

[red1]

lebron is the GOAT


curry is pretty good too

[3ba11]

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Lebron's help vs Curry's help:




11-13' WADE (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/wadedw01.html#2011-2013-sum:advanced)........... 25.2 PER... 0.211 WS/48... 6.1 BPM... 14.0 VORP.... 23.1 and 4.8 apg
17-19' DURANT (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/d/duranke01.html#2017-2019-sum:advanced)........ 25.8 PER... 0.229 WS/48... 7.1 BPM... 16.4 VORP.... 25.8 and 5.1 apg

11-13' BOSH (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/boshch01.html#2011-2013-sum:advanced)........... 19.5 PER... 0.173 WS/48... 1.2 BPM... 5.8 VORP..... 18/8/2
17-19' KLAY (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/t/thompkl01.html#2017-2019-sum:advanced)............. 16.7 PER... 0.106 WS/48... 0.1 BPM... 4.1 VORP..... 21/4/2


15-16' KYRIE (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/i/irvinky01.html#2015-2016-sum:advanced)........... 20.9 PER... 0.168 WS/48... 3.4 BPM... 6.0 VORP..... 21/3/5
15-16' KLAY (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/t/thompkl01.html#2017-2019-sum:advanced)............. 19.6 PER... 0.158 WS/48... 3.0 BPM... 6.5 VORP..... 22/4/2

15-16' LOVE (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/l/loveke01.html#2015-2016-sum:advanced)............. 18.9 PER... 0.168 WS/48... 3.0 BPM... 6.0 VORP.... 16/10/2
15-16' DRAY (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/g/greendr01.html#2015-2016-sum:advanced)............. 17.9 PER... 0.177 WS/48... 4.6 BPM... 8.7 VORP..... 12/9/7



^^^ It's statistical fact that Lebron equal or greater help than Curry, yet he produced perennial losers/underdogs and Curry produced goat teams/dynasties.

History shows that highly-assisted skillsets like jumpshooters or bigs produce the best chemistry and all the great teams/dynasties that mostly won for a material stretch of 5+ years (Russell, Kareem, Jordan, Duncan, Curry, Kobe/Shaq)... Meanwhile, the low-assisted skillsets produce weaker chemistry and perennial losers with every cast, so they're not capable of producing great teams (Lebron, Oscar, Luka, SGA, Harden, Westbrook).