Phil Jackson saying that Michael Jordan led the league in scoring because he wanted t

[97 bulls]

Phil Jackson did an interview on the Stacey Kings show. In it, he plainly states that Jordan wanted to lead the league in scoring. Again, not because he had to, but because he wanted to. This isn't a knock on Jordan, but it should put an end to the argument that the Jordan scored the way he did because he had to. Granted sometimes he did have to. But night in and out? He did it because he wanted to lead the league in scoring.



https://youtu.be/Ozddwf0k8-Y

[90sgoat]

I don't see the issue.

82 games is a lot during the regular season. I bet winning those scoring titles was just another way to stay motivated.

[Axe]

8 points per quarter used to be his target. At least according to eleven rings.

[Im Still Ballin]

The numbers are arbitrary; Shaq could've won championships scoring 25 PPG if he put more effort into defense. Dwight could've scored 4 more points per game but it doesn't mean his team would. Those Bulls teams could've won playing a lot of ways.

[Kblaze8855]

He said so himself that it was the only stat he cared about because it was motivational. He could use it. That 8 points a quarter would be enough. It only became an issue 30 years later when we wanted to pretend nobody would do such a thing.

[90sgoat]

The guy scored 37ppg in like his 3rd season, I don't think anyone is surprised that he and Wilt cared about scoring.

[FultzNationRISE]

Exactly.

Lebron himself has pointed out he could score 50 if he wanted to, he just chooses not to.

MJ made an effort to score as much as possible and only managed 35.

50>35.

Case closed.

[Real Men Wear Green]

And what does Jordan average of he doesn't have to score, 29? Players should generally do what they're good at within their role. Jordan's role was scoring, prime Jordan would have to be put into a system that intentionally deemphasized him to not average 30. It would be stupid. Like an NFL team that has prime Barry Sanders and decides they would rather throw it with Trent Dilfer.

[Lebron23]

Michael Jordan is a ballhog. even when he played for the wizards he was averaging 25 attempts per game.

[97 bulls]

Again, keep in mind that I have no problem with MJ scoring the way he did. My issue is with Jordans acolytes saying he scored so much because his team sucked. That's a lie.

[FultzNationRISE]

And what does Jordan average of he doesn't have to score, 29? Players should generally do what they're good at within their role. Jordan's role was scoring, prime Jordan would have to be put into a system that intentionally deemphasized him to not average 30. It would be stupid. Like an NFL team that has prime Barry Sanders and decides they would rather throw it with Trent Dilfer.


Low IQ post.

[FultzNationRISE]

Michael Jordan is a ballhog. even when he played for the wizards he was averaging 25 attempts per game.


High IQ post.

[elementally morale]

Again, keep in mind that I have no problem with MJ scoring the way he did. My issue is with Jordans acolytes saying he scored so much because his team sucked. That's a lie.

Back in the day, I really hated Jordan. I told myself and others it's because he was a ballhog who never passed the ball. A few years later, As a Laker fan I was rooting for Kobe. And.. he was a ballhog who never passed the ball. Of course 'never' is a hyperbole but still. I also adored Magic and Bird, who passed the ball. I don't like LeBron... but he passes the ball. I loved Hakeem because he played great defense and had great moves but wasn't much of a passer. Now I like Jokic who passes the ball has all the moves and passing... but he isn't exactly known for his defense. I tell myself I don't like LeBron because he bulldozes his way to the basket. But I liked Shaq... and he did the same thing. And so on and so forth.

[Real Men Wear Green]

Again, keep in mind that I have no problem with MJ scoring the way he did. My issue is with Jordans acolytes saying he scored so much because his team sucked. That's a lie.
It's just 3ball saying his teammates sucked most people don't act like that. He scored a lot of points partially because he wanted to but it shouldn't be ignored that his game was great offense. As a Bull he was never on a team where he shouldn't be scoring a lot of points.

[Axe]

It's just 3ball saying his teammates sucked most people don't act like that. He scored a lot of points partially because he wanted to but it shouldn't be ignored that his game was great offense. As a Bull he was never on a team where he shouldn't be scoring a lot of points.
ImKobe has the same sentiment like his as well. :oldlol:

Just plain awful.

[iamgine]

Did he resort to unspeakable things like *gasp* statpadding?

[Indian guy]

Right, I'm sure the game's greatest offensive weapon really had to go out his way to lead the league in scoring :rolleyes:

Whether he wanted to or not, MJ would've always led the league in scoring off off sheer ability alone. And it's not like the championship teams he played on were bursting with offensive talent. It was always Pippen + role players.

[jstern]

Exactly.

Lebron himself has pointed out he could score 50 if he wanted to, he just chooses not to.

MJ made an effort to score as much as possible and only managed 35.

50>35.

Case closed.

Before reading your comment, I was going to mention that I once saw a Michael Jordan interview from the 90s where he said that he could easily average 40 points per game, but that it would take away from the team. It would lead to more losses.

[iamgine]

Jaylen Brown can average 50 if he takes enough shots.

[Micku]

Before reading your comment, I was going to mention that I once saw a Michael Jordan interview from the 90s where he said that he could easily average 40 points per game, but that it would take away from the team. It would lead to more losses.

Shaq said that too.

Shaq also had that mindset of scoring about 7-8 pts a quarter. And Shaq knows that he could get off anytime in his prime, but he wanted to get his teammates involved. He combined the scoring with the passing.

Both MJ and Shaq both said that they have to pace themselves in the scoring. You can see MJ getting better with that as the years went on. But with MJ, he took over in the 4th. Phil made a joke about that too.

Not sure if MJ or Phil told Shaq about the 7-8 pts a quarter or Shaq learned it himself. MJ probably told Kobe. MJ definitely told Carmelo that. KD knows that. LeBron probably does too.

[Micku]

Again, keep in mind that I have no problem with MJ scoring the way he did. My issue is with Jordans acolytes saying he scored so much because his team sucked. That's a lie.

I don't think it disproves anything. Just because MJ wanted to score, it doesn't mean the team didn't need it.

MJ had a crazy impact on the game as shown by the numbers. They were great in the offense like top 3 in their championships, and MJ was the main reason. And this led to wins. Is there a way to prove that they would get as many wins without MJ scoring in those years? Would they win as many games in the RS as they did? With the point differential? Would they be number 1 in the offense?

It just showed that Phil wanted to play within the system, MJ said that he could still lead the league in scoring by pacing himself. Phil was like, you could but he didn't have to do all that. Just score in the 4th. lol. But this has already been recorded before. What this indicates is more like MJ learned to pace himself better, which was already was out there.

What disprove that the Bulls didn't suck was the 94 Bulls. But MJ and his crazy scoring would've lead them over the top. It gave them open shots and is either the goat or one of the goats scorers of all time. There are other plus/minus stats that indicate that the Bulls didn't rely on MJ as much. The bulls used to suck and needed MJ. Then as the players getting better and with the implication of the triangle, the Bulls didn't suck.

Getting more players involved within the offense would be better overall as a team. And the triangle helps with that.

[kawhileonard2]

Exactly.

Lebron himself has pointed out he could score 50 if he wanted to, he just chooses not to.

MJ made an effort to score as much as possible and only managed 35.

50>35.

Case closed.

But he can't win without switching teams and stacking the deck. Guys in his own era has as many titles in less years that won league and finals mvp.

[97 bulls]

I don't think it disproves anything. Just because MJ wanted to score, it doesn't mean the team didn't need it.

MJ had a crazy impact on the game as shown by the numbers. They were great in the offense like top 3 in their championships, and MJ was the main reason. And this led to wins. Is there a way to prove that they would get as many wins without MJ scoring in those years? Would they win as many games in the RS as they did? With the point differential? Would they be number 1 in the offense?

It just showed that Phil wanted to play within the system, MJ said that he could still lead the league in scoring by pacing himself. Phil was like, you could but he didn't have to do all that. Just score in the 4th. lol. But this has already been recorded before. What this indicates is more like MJ learned to pace himself better, which was already was out there.

What disprove that the Bulls didn't suck was the 94 Bulls. But MJ and his crazy scoring would've lead them over the top. It gave them open shots and is either the goat or one of the goats scorers of all time. There are other plus/minus stats that indicate that the Bulls didn't rely on MJ as much. The bulls used to suck and needed MJ. Then as the players getting better and with the implication of the triangle, the Bulls didn't suck.

Getting more players involved within the offense would be better overall as a team. And the triangle helps with that.

I agree. I posted the link to what Jackson said for the ones that say the Bulls sucked outside of MJ and that he scored so many points only because he had to.

[Gotterdammerung]

Back in the day, I really hated Jordan. I told myself and others it's because he was a ballhog who never passed the ball. A few years later, As a Laker fan I was rooting for Kobe. And.. he was a ballhog who never passed the ball. Of course 'never' is a hyperbole but still. I also adored Magic and Bird, who passed the ball. I don't like LeBron... but he passes the ball. I loved Hakeem because he played great defense and had great moves but wasn't much of a passer. Now I like Jokic who passes the ball has all the moves and passing... but he isn't exactly known for his defense. I tell myself I don't like LeBron because he bulldozes his way to the basket. But I liked Shaq... and he did the same thing. And so on and so forth.

The most honest thing I've ever read in all my years on ISH.
:oldlol:
Fanboyism almost always precludes every iota of self-awareness.
:kobe:

[Micku]

I agree. I posted the link to what Jackson said for the ones that say the Bulls sucked outside of MJ and that he scored so many points only because he had to.

It was a great interview. Phil rarely do interviews nowadays, so that was cool.

I don't think we give Phil Jackson enough credit. They didn't have the best talent in the early 90s imo, but they operated and executed the best as a team. And Phil Jax helped maximize that potential. He did a good job at pulling back MJ, and MJ did a much better job at pacing himself. And he did a great job at attacking within the offense. As you said, the Bulls were more than just MJ.

Granted, when MJ was playing in the 80s, I feel like he wasn't that bad at attacking. But that was a modern perspective. Transfer him to the late 10s, and surround him with shooters, and that style would be more efficient. But in the early 90s, he was more in control of the flow of the game.

[Micku]

Back in the day, I really hated Jordan. I told myself and others it's because he was a ballhog who never passed the ball. A few years later, As a Laker fan I was rooting for Kobe. And.. he was a ballhog who never passed the ball. Of course 'never' is a hyperbole but still. I also adored Magic and Bird, who passed the ball. I don't like LeBron... but he passes the ball. I loved Hakeem because he played great defense and had great moves but wasn't much of a passer. Now I like Jokic who passes the ball has all the moves and passing... but he isn't exactly known for his defense. I tell myself I don't like LeBron because he bulldozes his way to the basket. But I liked Shaq... and he did the same thing. And so on and so forth.

Hahaha, so true.

Kobe and MJ are almost copies of each other in terms of play style. They have almost the same moves. Some differences here and there. Yet the fans were at each other throats in the 00s for a while. lol

Shaq and LeBron do bully their way to the basket. Sometimes they do offensive fouls or just their man just bounces off them.

[RogueBorg]

If you're of the mindset that Jordan, the greatest player of all-time with the greatest collection of offensive moves in NBA History should have shot less and these guys should have shot more;

Pippen
Grant
Cartwright
Armstrong
Paxson
Perdue
McCray
Tucker
Scott Williams

You're an idiot.

[SATAN]

If you're of the mindset that Jordan, the greatest player of all-time with the greatest collection of offensive moves in NBA History should have shot less and these guys should have shot more;

Pippen
Grant
Cartwright
Armstrong
Paxson
Perdue
McCray
Tucker
Scott Williams

You're an idiot.

Casual.

[hateraid]

He said so himself that it was the only stat he cared about because it was motivational. He could use it. That 8 points a quarter would be enough. It only became an issue 30 years later when we wanted to pretend nobody would do such a thing.

Thank you

[Soundwave]

Jordan said scoring 8 per quarter was easy as pie for him.

What's wrong with wanting to win a scoring title anyway? If you have the ability to do it and can do it within the context of winning championships which Jordan clearly could, then show the world your talent.

If you have the talent to do something but don't want to push yourself to do it or have some crap false modesty thing going on, you're a f***ing loser. I watch pro sports to see the best athletes push themselves to be the best player they can be.

If you can score a 100 points in a game, do it. If you can score 30 ppg year after year while winning titles, do it. If you can run a 100 meters in 9.4 seconds, do it. Lets see it. No one wants to hear "woulda/coulda" or "I could but I really don't want to push it too much". If I want that I can just go watch amateur level sports or high school basketball or some shit. The appeal and entertainment factor of pro sports is seeing the best showcase the full extent of their abilities.

[elementally morale]

Jordan said scoring 8 per quarter was easy as pie for him.

What's wrong with wanting to win a scoring title anyway? If you have the ability to do it and can do it within the context of winning championships which Jordan clearly could, then show the world your talent.

If you have the talent to do something but don't want to push yourself to do it or have some crap false modesty thing going on, you're a f***ing loser. I watch pro sports to see the best athletes push themselves to be the best player they can be.

If you can score a 100 points in a game, do it. If you can score 30 ppg year after year while winning titles, do it. If you can run a 100 meters in 9.4 seconds, do it. Lets see it. No one wants to hear "woulda/coulda" or "I could but I really don't want to push it too much". If I want that I can just go watch amateur level sports or high school basketball or some shit. The appeal and entertainment factor of pro sports is seeing the best showcase the full extent of their abilities.

Basketball being a team sport, the 'while winning championships' part comes first. Stephon Marbury showcased his talent. I mostly agree with your point but the question is how long are you able to win playing a certain way, especially with the same franchise. Durant's iso way of playing the game does showcase his talent but he didn't do much as the best man on a team. Shaq and Kobe could've won more if not for their ego, and the Lakers could've won against the Pistons if not for Kobe's ego. Both showcased their talents but a bit less of that may have resulted in 7 rings if not more.

[FilmyCogTurner]

Again, keep in mind that I have no problem with MJ scoring the way he did. My issue is with Jordans acolytes saying he scored so much because his team sucked. That's a lie.

Not this shit again.

What is hard to understand that Jordan can push for scoring titles while also having good teammates around him?

[97 bulls]

Jordan said scoring 8 per quarter was easy as pie for him.

What's wrong with wanting to win a scoring title anyway? If you have the ability to do it and can do it within the context of winning championships which Jordan clearly could, then show the world your talent.

If you have the talent to do something but don't want to push yourself to do it or have some crap false modesty thing going on, you're a f***ing loser. I watch pro sports to see the best athletes push themselves to be the best player they can be.

If you can score a 100 points in a game, do it. If you can score 30 ppg year after year while winning titles, do it. If you can run a 100 meters in 9.4 seconds, do it. Lets see it. No one wants to hear "woulda/coulda" or "I could but I really don't want to push it too much". If I want that I can just go watch amateur level sports or high school basketball or some shit. The appeal and entertainment factor of pro sports is seeing the best showcase the full extent of their abilities.

There's nothing wrong with wanting to be the best scorer. But when people say Jordan scored all those points because he had to? Not true. He did it because he wanted to.

[97 bulls]

Not this shit again.

What is hard to understand that Jordan can push for scoring titles while also having good teammates around him?

You obviously can't read. I have no issue with Jordan scoring. I have an issue with people that degrade his teammates by saying he led the league in scoring because his teammates couldn't score. THATS. NOT. TRUE.

[FilmyCogTurner]

There's nothing wrong with wanting to be the best scorer. But when people say Jordan scored all those points because he had to? Not true. He did it because he wanted to.

You're wrong. He had to score those points because the competition was coming for them at full force. If he hadn't scored like he did the Bulls would have lost and that is not to say his teammates sucked. It means the competition was that good.

[FilmyCogTurner]

Not this shit again.

What is hard to understand that Jordan can push for scoring titles while also having good teammates around him?

I can't read? Look at the bolded words in my first post.

[97 bulls]

I can't read? Look at the bolded words in my first post.

I'm not talking about Jordan or his teammates, I'm talking about Jordans fans.

[97 bulls]

You're wrong. He had to score those points because the competition was coming for them at full force. If he hadn't scored like he did the Bulls would have lost and that is not to say his teammates sucked. It means the competition was that good.

Lol. Bro. He said he wanted to lead the league in scoring. Lol. Even when his coaches tried to reign him in and asked him to stop shooting so much, he told them what his intentions were. He was gonna set a pace to score 8 points a quarter. By definition, that's not organic. And we know it to be true, because Jackson said it. And not only that, but when Jordan abruptly retired, and they replaced him with a journeyman, the Bulls were still successful. Just think if they had a guy capable of 20ppg and a solid defender instead of Pete Myers. Never mind, I know what you're thinking. You're Jordanite cult won't allow you to see anything other than Jordan

[Micku]

You're wrong. He had to score those points because the competition was coming for them at full force. If he hadn't scored like he did the Bulls would have lost and that is not to say his teammates sucked. It means the competition was that good.

I think in the 80s they needed it. They were horrible.

But by time 92, they didn't need MJ scoring to be a championship-contending team. They may not have won, but they didn't need it to be a good team. As 97 Bulls said, they could've got a Mitch Richmond or a Glen Rice.

They wouldn't be as good offensively and defensively though. MJ had a massive impact on the offensive end. And MJ was really clutch and probably the most clutch superstar ever, so they may not have won those close games if it wasn't for him. They wouldn't have won in 98 for sure. The early 90s would've been tough too. You could argue they wouldn't have won any, maybe except for 96 or 97, but MJ was more than just a scorer. He was the best defender in his position, underrated passer, and low TOs are key. And of course, all the other intangibles as while as leadership, so it's hard to say if they could've won any championships.

I think it's proven that they didn't need MJ scoring to be a good team after a while. They would have a shot at the championship. You gotta give credit to all of the teammates of the Bulls and Phil Jackson. Phil Jackson did a hell of a job. But they needed MJ to be an all-time great team.

[FilmyCogTurner]

I really don't like being mean on the internet because its so easy to do so - but you don't understand the game. Michku in the blame Pippen thread is spoon feeding you the information and you're still unable to understand, what chance do I have here?

Let me ask you two questions...

What do you think MJ valued more, leading the league in scoring or winning the game?

And how is the outcome of the game decided?

Sorry for being rude.

[97 bulls]

I think in the 80s they needed it. They were horrible.

But by time 92, they didn't need MJ scoring to be a championship-contending team. They may not have won, but they didn't need it to be a good team. As 97 Bulls said, they could've got a Mitch Richmond or a Glen Rice.

They wouldn't be as good offensively and defensively though. MJ had a massive impact on the offensive end. And MJ was really clutch and probably the most clutch superstar ever, so they may not have won those close games if it wasn't for him. They wouldn't have won in 98 for sure. The early 90s would've been tough too. You could argue they wouldn't have won any, maybe except for 96 or 97, but MJ was more than just a scorer. He was the best defender in his position, underrated passer, and low TOs are key. And of course, all the other intangibles as while as leadership, so it's hard to say if they could've won any championships.

I think it's proven that they didn't need MJ scoring to be a good team after a while. They would have a shot at the championship. You gotta give credit to all of the teammates of the Bulls and Phil Jackson. Phil Jackson did a hell of a job. But they needed MJ to be an all-time great team.

Right. All things playing out the same way, and MJ retires and doesn't return, and they pick up Kenadall Gill to replace him (I say Kendall Gill because I believe he was a free agent at the time). I think they eek out 1 Championship. But no 72 and 69 wins. And definitely no 3 straight titles.

[97 bulls]

I really don't like being mean on the internet because its so easy to do so - but you don't understand the game. Michku in the blame Pippen thread is spoon feeding you the information and you're still unable to understand, what chance do I have here?

Let me ask you two questions...

What do you think MJ valued more, leading the league in scoring or winning the game?

And how is the outcome of the game decided?

Sorry for being rude.

If this is directed at me, it honestly seems that both were equally important to MJ. I mean, they told him the team needed to be less one dimensional, and that they needed to get the team more involved in the offense and his reply is worrying about being able to lead the league in scoring.

I think the Bulls biggest strength was that they had players that could impact the game by doing things besides scoring. So it facilitated Jordan to be able to score the way he did.


To answer the second question, whoever has the most points by the end of the game, wins.

[tpols]

Maybe in games that didn't matter but we saw in the 1993 Finals Pippen shit the bed and the Bulls needed every inch of Jordan's scoring to barely win.

And then in the 2nd 3peat they needed it all as well with no star scoring beside him. This argument can be made for '91 and '92 and that's about it. But he still dominated those years en route to relatively easy championships so who cares if he kicked his coring into another gear to show off.

[Da_Realist]

It wasn't that hard for him to do. He could score in his sleep even in the Triangle offense and even while leading his teams to championships. Something most great players could not do. It wasn't so great an effort that he jeopardized the team offensively or compromised them defensively.

[97 bulls]

It wasn't that hard for him to do. He could score in his sleep even in the Triangle offense and even while leading his teams to championships. Something most great players could not do. It wasn't so great an effort that he jeopardized the team offensively or compromised them defensively.

Jordan definitely didn't hurt the team. I just posted that Phil Jackson interview to show that he did it not because the team was bad offensively, but because he wanted to.