Pat Riley the genius has built a duplicate 2006 roster to beat Jokic/Dirk

[Heat_chips]

What?

Former Heat champion Gary Payton was just interviewed talking how the 2023 Heat are an exact carbon copy of the 2006 Miami Heat championship team:

https://www.sbnation.com/nba/2023/6/6/23750785/gary-payton-interview-miami-heat-culture-nba-finals

Dirk Nowitzki and Nikola Jokic play similar games. Both are 7 feet tall and prefer to play at the top of the key rather than post-up inside (like traditional 7 footers over history). Both are good long range shooters who are also good passers (like playing the facilitator role), play on the perimeter more and just inside the arc rather than down by the basket. Dallas was heavy favorites heading into that 2006 Finals as the Mavs won 60-games that year, The media gave the Heat no chance and said the Heat would be lucky to win one game in the series. But the Heat beat the Mavs in 6

The Miami Heat beat Dirk in the 2006 finals with a very similar Heat team in 2023:

2023 Kyle Lowry = 2006 Gary Payton. Both play like bulls on the defensive end and have fast hands to disrupt offenses with timing plays getting under the other teams skin, and also make key long range shots. In fact, Gary Payton was just interviewed comparing his game to Lowry and Payton used the term we are both "bulls".

2023 Bam Adebayo = 2006 Alonzo Mourning. Very similar centers who play top notch ALL - NBA level defense and can pitch in over 20 points on offense on any given night

2023 Jimmy Butler = 2006 Dwayne Wade . Both players are the main drivers of the team, Both are the rim runners to drive and make plays off it. Both are the best at drawing fouls on their respective teams. Both play excellent defense and can cause havoc on the defensive end

2023 Duncan Robinson = 2006 James Posey . Three point shooters who can at times make plays beyond their shooting. Duncan is able to drive to the hoop like Posey was able to. Both players have savviness

2023 Caleb Martin = 2006 Antoine Walker .. Both are great 3 and D players, Though Walker was listed as a PF he played more like a SF, and the Heat use Caleb at PF when the Heat go small. Both play great defense, Martin was excellent on defense in game 2, though he didnt score much he still made an impact on the game, just like Walker did for us in 2006.

2023 Gabe Vincent/ Tyler Herro = 2006 Jason Williams.. Very similar point guards though Vincent is seriously outplaying the Williams of 2006. Vincent has been fantastic on both ends of the floor. Tyler Herro can also be made to compare to Williams, hope Herro returns soon

2023 Kevin Love = 2006 Udonis Haslem . Love was instrumental in game 2, he had ten rebounds in 22 minutes and solidifying the paint area. Love is a better shooter but both provide the intangibles needed to win a title at the PF position

The Heat had Shaq in 2006 but he lost a couple steps at that point and wasn't near the same player he was the year before and the year prior to that. Limited minutes but still came in handy at times

Heat Culture >>>>>>

[AlternativeAcc.]

Jokic is significantly better than Dirk and Murray is better than Terry. Wade was a tier above Butler in 06. Shaq was high level.. not having someone similar foils the comparison.

Sounds like Denver will win

[Heat_chips]

Murray sucks

[AlternativeAcc.]

Murray sucks

27/7/5 on 59% TS

Identical to Butlers stats but more efficient. Not good defensively though

[Heat_chips]

27/7/5 on 59% TS

Identical to Butlers stats but more efficient. Not good defensively though

I was laughing when watching the western conference playoffs where Murray was easily able to Hunt matchups. Lakers, suns and Wolves have garbage defenses, Suns and wolves play ZERO defense.

I have news for you, he wont be able to hunt like that vs the Heat.

Butler shut Murray down in game 2 and saw 35 possessions up against Murray vs just 4 possessions on him in game 1.

Murray scored 8 pts in the first half ALL in transition when Butler was on the bench. He was garbage otherwise.

[AlternativeAcc.]

I was laughing when watching the western conference playoffs where Murray was easily able to Hunt matchups. Lakers, suns and Wolves have garbage defenses, Suns and wolves play ZERO defense.

I have news for you, he wont be able to hunt like that vs the Heat.

Butler shut Murray down in game 2 and saw 35 possessions up against Murray vs just 4 possessions on him in game 1.

Murray scored 8 pts in the first half ALL in transition when Butler was on the bench. He was garbage otherwise.

I said before the series the Heat would play better defense against Murray. But he's better than Jason Terry by a good bit and Jokic is better than Dirk. Wade is better than Butler and they have no Shaq.

Not sure I understand the comparisons or logic. I wouldn't be totally shocked if Heat win or anything, but Denver probably takes it.

[Heat_chips]

Not to mention, Jokic and Murrays defense is absolute garbage , When have you seen a championship team where their 2 best players are so atrocious defensively , to the point where they are By far the 2 worst defenders on the entire roster (including the bench)

The Heat have the genius coaching staff and scouting department to exploit that,

Moreover, that 2006 Heat team had many players with championship finals experience, and it made a huge difference.

This 2023 Heat team has Seven players with Finals experience, SEVEN !! The Mcnuggets only have one. That is good for 10 - 12 points per game in a series. The Heat just make for experienced savvy smart plays - for example you saw little Lowry beat huge Porter under the basket for that offensive rebound the free throw in the 4th qtr.. 2 more easy points,, You saw Kevin Love take a very savvy charge on Jokic turning the ball over and leading to 2 quick points.. just to name a few.. they add up

The Heat have far more savviness and moxy (and defensive fortitude) than the upstart nuggets who have never been on the big stage before.. The nuggets also stink on the road. They were 19-22 on the road in the reg season and lost all 3 of their playoff games on the road before the miami series.... thats just not savviness

[Heat_chips]

Jaylen Brown is a better guard than Murray and the Heat made Brown look like brown poo all series. In fact, the Heat have been excellent at shutting down top guards in the playoffs .. Look at Jrue Holiday how he shot 35% or less in 3 of the 5 games in the series..

The Heat have the personnel to stifle and rattle Murray, and in fact I called it before the series that the Heat would exploit him... Jaylen Brown again is a better guard than Murray and the Heat were able to get in his head and rattle him... Jaylen Brown has a much higher point per game average than Murray this season, and shooting at much higher efficiency (49% to 42%) .. Brown is a much better passer, more assists, Brown is a much better rebounder, and Brown is a thousand times better defensively than Murray the traffic cone is.

Combine the fact that when murray has gotten rattled, history shows he shoots you out of games (selfish chucker) as he has a history of being incredibly inconsistent.. the murray matchup is the one I loved before the series for the Heat

[Heat_chips]

Shaq was high level..

Shaq was not high level in 2006, he wasn't near the player he was in 05 and 04

And Shaq wouldn't fit on this current team as the game has changed ( just like Shaq would not fit on those champion Spurs teams and Warriors teams), as spacing the floor to open 3 point shots is paramount in the league now. As well as being able to move outside the paint on defense. Thats why Kevin Love fits so well on the current Heat

Shaq would clog the paint too much on offense for the Heat, as the current Heat want to empty the paint creating loads of space offensively against this nuggets team

[Real Men Wear Green]

There are too many things Jokic does that Nowitzki doesn't for that to be a good comparison. Not to mention they are different athletically and build wise.

[Heat_chips]

There are too many things Jokic does that Nowitzki doesn't for that to be a good comparison. Not to mention they are different athletically and build wise.

2006 Mavericks = 60 wins (26-15 on the road)

2023 Nuggets = 53 wins (19-22 on the road)

[Heat_chips]

There are too many things Jokic does that Nowitzki doesn't for that to be a good comparison.

They both suck on defense is another good comparison. There are far more similar comparisons than otherwise is the point. If you want to find very little comparisons, compare Garnett to Jokic or shaq to jokic

Another thing to factor in is this current Heat team is a far better 3 point shooting team compared to the 2006 team, more players that can really shoot it.

You're ignoring the fact the Heat have shot well since 20 games left in this 2023 season where the Heat shot 39% from 3 over those 20 games.. This did not begin when the playoff bell rung

People have said "it won't be sustainable" for 4 months now... yet the heat keep winning and doing it

[Real Men Wear Green]

2006 Mavericks = 60 wins (26-15 on the road)

2023 Nuggets = 53 wins (19-22 on the road)
What does this have to do with comparing dirk and Jokic as players?

[Real Men Wear Green]

They both suck on defense is another good comparison. There are far more similar comparisons than otherwise is the point. If you want to find very little comparisons, compare Garnett to Jokic or shaq to jokic

Another thing to factor in is this current Heat team is a far better 3 point shooting team compared to the 2006 team, more players that can really shoot it.

You're ignoring the fact the Heat have shot well since 20 games left in this 2023 season where the Heat shot 39% from 3 over those 20 games.. This did not begin when the playoff bell rung

People have said "it won't be sustainable" for 4 months now... yet the heat keep winning and doing it
Almost none of this compares Jokic to Nowitzki.

[Heat_chips]

Almost none of this compares Jokic to Nowitzki.

Both players are white non-athletic 7 footers who play more on the perimeter/top of the key than downlow. Both were non post-up bigmen. Both very good shooters, both good passers and facilitators . Both play bad defensively.

Both were the undisputed leaders on their teams and the catalysts for their teams offensively, both were upstarts in the finals having to face a Pat Riley Miami defense in their first go around on the big stage

Both were heavy favorites heading into the finals vs the underdog Heat..... I wish I could show media clips and what people said online before the 2006 finals, everyone was calling for a Mavs sweep saying the Mavs offense will be too much for the heat, exactly like people were saying about Denver before this series ....

That is plenty comparison enough

[elementally morale]

Both players were white non-athletic 7 footers who play more on the perimeter/top of the key than downlow. Both were non post-up bigmen. Both very good shooters, both good passers and facilitators . Both play bad defensively.

That is plenty comparison enough


Both are white and tall who can shoot and not great on defense. That's where this comparison ends. Dirk was a scorer first, pass second type of player and Jokic is the opposite. I'm not sure what games you are watching but Jokic is involved in many post-ups both in the high and low post. He is also a more efficient player than Dirk and he has way more effect on the outcome of a game. Dirk could hurt you as a shooter and that was basically it. Jokic is a walking triple double.

[Heat_chips]

And both are pretty slow

[tpols]

The game is a 3pt contest. The Nuggets lost by 1 bucket in a game the Heat went nuts from 3. And it wasn't like they lost on horrible defense if you watch the tape and see the shots guys like Duncan Robinson were making to bring the Heat back. That guy makes contested 3s better than wide open ones... case in point game 6 of the ECFs.

Pat Riley didn't build this team to beat the Nuggets. They had to worry about the Bucks and Celtics before that who play totally different.

Miami is just a good basketball team on a mission.

[elementally morale]

And both are pretty slow

Jokic isn't slow. He just looks clumsy which he is also not. He plays the game at his own pace but he beats most big men down the court. He looks tired in the 3rd minute of the game but it is deceptive. His first step is very quick. I have a feeling you will disappear sometime in the next 10 days.

[Heat_chips]

Pat Riley's genius comes where he was able to build a similar team to 2006 but with better shooting. The current Heat have way more players that can shoot the basketball, and this isn't some recent phenomena, as they were one of the best 3 point shooting last year, and over the final 20 games of the regular season this year the Heat shot 39% from 3.

Just a continuation into the playoffs, it's been happening for 4 months now, very sustainable

For any > favoring the 2006 Heat team, one can argue that it's negated by the fact the Heat are just loaded with good shooters on this 2023 team.. If one goes cold, it's easy to insert another shooter, and if he's cold, insert another, shooter and on and on and on she goes.. the heat just have so many shooters placing great stress on opposing defenses because you cant guard them all well with the great actions the heat create on offense

[Heat_chips]

Jokic isn't slow. He just looks clumsy .

He's slow.

Another similarity is both will lose in their first finals appearance to a very smart and savvy Miami defense.

The Heat defense held the nuggets to just 106ppg in the 2 games on denvers home floor (where the nuggets play far better than on the road), and that was with a huge rest advantage for the nuggets, a huge preparation time advantage, altitude advantage, and the Heat not having any legs in game one coming off a 7-game series with lots of travel and no rest (games 5, 6 and 7 vs Boston were only 2 days apart with the ADDED travel before each of those 3 final games).

And with a hobbled Jimmy Butler.

Nobody in the media or on this board predicted miami would hold the nuggets to just 106ppg through games 1 and 2 in Denver considering all those circumstances ... because Miami is better than you think they are

[iamgine]

lol Mourning played like 10 minutes a game against Mavs.

[HoopologyPhD]

DWhistle was as good as 2 players, if the Heat have the refs on their side, easy win

[Duffy Pratt]

Shaq was not high level in 2006, he wasn't near the player he was in 05 and 04



In the finals, Shaq put up the 3rd most minutes, led the Heat in rebounding, was 3rd in scoring while shooting 61% from the field, with high games of 18,17,17 and 16. At the same time, you extoll Mourning as a guy who can score 20 on any given night. He averaged 4.3 points in the finals, managing 11 points in his best game, and playing less than 1/3 of the time that Shaq did. All you do is try to twist facts to suit your narrative.