The “Jokic or Embiid” debate feels like it was eons ago..

[FultzNationRISE]

When actually it was still raging right up until the playoffs started


:yaohappy:

[SouBeachTalents]

It was honestly never a debate to me. Despite having little playoff success until this year, Jokic actually performed at his regular standards in the playoffs, and was only losing due to injuries to his team. Embiid consistently underperformed in the playoffs and was always missing games to boot. While I don't think it's an outrage Embiid won MVP this year, I honestly think Jokic was still more deserving, but the 3peat MVP is almost impossible to pull off.

The one I thought was a legitimate debate was Jokic/Giannis. Jokic gets the mantle of BITW even if they manage to lose this series, but I feel like this will be a very close argument against starting next season. Giannis is getting a little bit too much criticism for losing a series he missed nearly half the games imo.

[FultzNationRISE]

It was honestly never a debate to me. Despite having little playoff success until this year, Jokic actually performed at his regular standards in the playoffs, and was only losing due to injuries to his team. Embiid consistently underperformed in the playoffs and was always missing games to boot. While I don't think it's an outrage Embiid won MVP this year, I honestly think Jokic was still more deserving, but the 3peat MVP is almost impossible to pull off.


I just meant that all the people who were pushing Embiid have disappeared :lol

[iamgine]

Basically this happened:

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/AngelicAnguishedLangur-size_restricted.gif

[Kblaze8855]

If you think Jokics playoffs will end that discussion you haven’t been paying attention to sports discussion the last 20 years.

[SouBeachTalents]

Basically this happened:

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/AngelicAnguishedLangur-size_restricted.gif
Well, it didn't, because they didn't play h2h.

[FultzNationRISE]

If you think Jokics playoffs will end that discussion you haven’t been paying attention to sports discussion the last 20 years.


True.

LoneyROY is a testament to how much abuse stans are willing to take in defense of their hero’s failures.

But again, I just meant theyve clearly gone into hiding for now. Like LeHaters every time he wins a chip or passes Kareem or cuts the ribbon on a new charity for the underprivileged.

Im sure theyll crawl out of their hole eventually. They always do.

[Patrick Chewing]

Embiid should give the MVP trophy back so they can give it to Jokic.

[90sgoat]

It's Karl Malone vs MJ in 1998.

At least Jazz made the finals though, but no way was Malone more valuable than MJ.

The truth is that Stockton was a way bigger part of those Jazz teams that Pippen+Rodman in 1998.

[Overdrive]

I just meant that all the people who were pushing Embiid have disappeared :lol

You mean Mask?

[FultzNationRISE]

You mean Mask?

And bdonovan.



And Perkins.

[Mask the Embiid]

He beat 3 play-in teams ( 2 8th seeds and and a 7th seed) if he wins the tite. Congrats on the easiest path to a ring in the history of pro sports :applause:


His toughest challenge was a line up with Cameron payne and Josh okogie in the starting line up.


Edit do not bother quoting me. I’m not coming back to this thread

[FultzNationRISE]

He beat 3 play-in teams ( 2 8th seeds and and a 7th seed) if he wins the tite. Congrats on the easiest path to a ring in the history of pro sports :applause:


His toughest challenge was a line up with Cameron payne and Landry shamet as the starting back court


The play-in Heat beat a team who BEAT Embiid, didnt they?

Looks like theyre gonna fall short against Joker tho.

Interesting.

[ShawkFactory]

He beat 3 play-in teams ( 2 8th seeds and and a 7th seed) if he wins the tite. Congrats on the easiest path to a ring in the history of pro sports :applause:


His toughest challenge was a line up with Cameron payne and Josh okogie in the starting line up.


Edit do not bother quoting me. I’m not coming back to this thread

I bet you won't :lol

[tontoz]

I bet you won't :lol

He mad :lol

[SouBeachTalents]

The play-in Heat beat a team who BEAT Embiid, didnt they?

Looks like theyre gonna fall short against Joker tho.

Interesting.
You're just focused on team results. Individually, Embiid was playing at a higher level in these playoffs than Jokic has been. I can't blame the guy when he carries the team on his back like he did in Game 7 and still comes up short.

[tontoz]

You're just focused on team results. Individually, Embiid was playing at a higher level in these playoffs than Jokic has been. I can't blame the guy when he carries the team on his back like he did in Game 7 and still comes up short.

Fans and players alike will never forget the iconic numbers 5-18.

[tpols]

He beat 3 play-in teams ( 2 8th seeds and and a 7th seed) if he wins the tite. Congrats on the easiest path to a ring in the history of pro sports :applause:


His toughest challenge was a line up with Cameron payne and Josh okogie in the starting line up.


Edit do not bother quoting me. I’m not coming back to this thread

Yolk has destroyed

KAT
Gobert
Edward's
Durant
Booker
Lebron
AD
Butler
Bam

so far....

He's literally ran a gauntlet of stars and has shit on all of them.

Meanwhile embiid got eliminated in the 2nd round in a Game 7 he shot 5/18 from the field and let Tatum drop a record breaking 51 points on him and his squad.

Don't compare the two. They are different animals in the playoffs.

[tpols]

The worst part about Mask is he won't admit he was wrong. He said the Heat would SWEEP or 4-1 the Nuggets lol.

Now he's saying the Heat are trash and Denver faced nobody.

Joke poster.

[SouBeachTalents]

Yolk has destroyed

KAT
Gobert
Edward's
Durant
Booker
Lebron
AD
Butler
Bam

so far....

He's literally ran a gauntlet of stars and has shit on all of them.

Meanwhile embiid got eliminated in the 2nd round in a Game 7 he shot 5/18 from the field and let Tatum drop a record breaking 51 points on him and his squad.

Don't compare the two. They are different animals in the playoffs.
The narrative is already starting

https://twitter.com/ChrisPalmerNBA/status/1663968770162036738

[tpols]

The narrative is already starting

https://twitter.com/ChrisPalmerNBA/status/1663968770162036738

That's wack because those 8 seeds the nuggets faced were beating 1 and 2 seeds.

Would you rather play the 3 seed kings or 5 seed Knicks or the lowly seeded Lakers, Suns, Warriors, Heat etc. ?

A lot of injury and trade distorted seeding this year for who was considered better.

[HighFlyer23]

Joel Embiid is tiers below Jokic.

It’s not even a discussion.

[fourkicks44]

Embiid has nobody to blame but Embiid anymore.

He is all out of excuses, its all on him.

[ArbitraryWater]

I got Embiid


who yall got?

[SaltyMeatballs]

Jokic clears and it's not debatable. He's always elevating his game in the playoffs and this postseason he's averaging 30/13/10 on absurd efficiency which is unheard of. Already 10 triple doubles too. Some modern-day Wilt numbers right in front of us. Meanwhile, Embiid's scoring falls off a cliff every playoffs

[AlternativeAcc.]

Embiid isn't even a top 5 player. Probably not top 10. Playoffs are just too important and thats where his game shrivels.

Jokic is 2 tiers above.

[Celtics 1825]

He beat 3 play-in teams ( 2 8th seeds and and a 7th seed) if he wins the tite. Congrats on the easiest path to a ring in the history of pro sports :applause:


His toughest challenge was a line up with Cameron payne and Josh okogie in the starting line up.


Edit do not bother quoting me. I’m not coming back to this thread
Pvssy ass bitch can't even stick around and eat his own words :oldlol::roll: pathetic

[StrongLurk]

It was honestly never a debate to me. Despite having little playoff success until this year, Jokic actually performed at his regular standards in the playoffs, and was only losing due to injuries to his team. Embiid consistently underperformed in the playoffs and was always missing games to boot. While I don't think it's an outrage Embiid won MVP this year, I honestly think Jokic was still more deserving, but the 3peat MVP is almost impossible to pull off.

The one I thought was a legitimate debate was Jokic/Giannis. Jokic gets the mantle of BITW even if they manage to lose this series, but I feel like this will be a very close argument against starting next season. Giannis is getting a little bit too much criticism for losing a series he missed nearly half the games imo.

This is exactly the truth.

[Thenameless]

Embiid can have his sympathy MVP. Begging and whining is for the weak.

A real man wins 2 MVP's, doesn't care about losing a third, and goes on to shut everyone up by winning a Finals MVP.

-- Laker fan

[90sgoat]

Joel Embiid is tiers below Jokic.

It’s not even a discussion.

This.

Embiid is nowhere near Jokic and should not be mentioned in the same sentence.

Embiid is not a real star, he is not even on Tatum's level.

He's a player with a green light that has a low FG% and lives at the line.

[Kblaze8855]

The “It’s not a discussion” people should go ahead and prepare to be annoyed by the next several years of this discussion. Even in the infamous Hakeem and David Robinson example cited earlier David was all NBA first team, and second in MVP voting over Hakeem the very next season.

Jokic could get 46/22/16 the next couple games to win finals mvp you know what happens then?

The process of factual dishonesty. People will use truth to mislead.

Know what it looks like?

It looks like 0-9 and 55 wins without him. It looks like “No fans. No travel. Didn’t count”. It looks like “They made the finals without him tho….”. Doesn’t matter they made the finals with the other teams best player hurt too. Doesnt matter that nobody had fans or travel so there’s no advantage. Doesn’t matter they were a bad team vs some GOAT contending teams. Making the truth do dishonest work is what immature people build arguments on because “I was wrong” isn’t in their repertoire.

Jokics technically correct but misleading fact will be “3 play in teams and the last one was without their first option” as Herro is technically the Heats leader in shots per game.

Doesn’t matter if it’s misleading. Know what matters? It’s…technically correct:



https://youtu.be/0ZEuWJ4muYc


The best kind of correct.


You don’t have to be right just because you’re telling the truth and the wiggle room that creates is such a useful tool for a dishonest jackass.

I promise you….when fans will work to ignore something like 40/14, 42/16/5 and 50/5blocks or whatever to win the ring by Giannis they will throw out whatever “Hasn’t been done since Connie Hawkins in the 1968 PBA finals” ass dominant performance Joker could do to win.

In a world where Pau is better than Kobe due to win shares, Steph doesn’t get credit for all 4 rings because of missing the first 3 finals mvps, “0/9 without Scottie”, “Season was 50 games tho….”, But how many Hall of famers Russell have?” when some were 7/3 guys who made it just because they played with Bill Russell, and on and on and on?

You think you can just defeat the haters argument with your play?

Almost everyone here has some version of “Technically true, but obviously misleading” in their bag of tactics and everyone has some bullshit reason why there’s is valid and other peoples aren’t.

Almost every sports fan, including most of them here is simply incapable of letting an argument end with “I was wrong”. So the truth of the circumstances must be used to coat the bullshit of their conclusion.

So….”3 play ins and one was hurt” will be the honest bullshit Jokic will be attacked with should he win.

And if he wins again next year?

Lebron was too old, the warriors had fallen off, the Kings weren’t ready, Luka had Kyrie, KD was hurt, Ja was suspended, and the East was ass anyway. If they werent how could Cavs have been in the ecf?


Please learn from history and don’t get your hopes up that your guy can end these arguments with his basketball playing.

Haters don’t actually care how anyone plays. There will always be a criticism so long as truth can be used to tell lies.

Embiid vs Jokic will be an argument again by December.

[FultzNationRISE]

The “It’s not a discussion” people should go ahead and prepare to be annoyed by the next several years of this discussion. Even in the infamous Hakeem and David Robinson example cited earlier David was all NBA first team, and second in MVP voting over Hakeem the very next season.

Jokic could get 46/22/16 the next couple games to win finals mvp you know what happens then?

The process of factual dishonesty. People will use truth to mislead.

Know what it looks like?

It looks like 0-9 and 55 wins without him. It looks like “No fans. No travel. Didn’t count”. It looks like “They made the finals without him tho….”. Doesn’t matter they made the finals with the other teams best player hurt too. Doesnt matter that nobody had fans or travel so there’s no advantage. Doesn’t matter they were a bad team vs some GOAT contending teams. Making the truth do dishonest work is what immature people build arguments on because “I was wrong” isn’t in their repertoire.

Jokics technically correct but misleading fact will be “3 play in teams and the last one was without their first option” as Herro is technically the Heats leader in shots per game.

Doesn’t matter if it’s misleading. Know what matters? It’s…technically correct:



https://youtu.be/0ZEuWJ4muYc


The best kind of correct.


You don’t have to be right just because you’re telling the truth and the wiggle room that creates is such a useful tool for a dishonest jackass.

I promise you….when fans will work to ignore something like 40/14, 42/16/5 and 50/5blocks or whatever to win the ring by Giannis they will throw out whatever “Hasn’t been done since Connie Hawkins in the 1968 PBA finals” ass dominant performance Joker could do to win.

In a world where Pau is better than Kobe due to win shares, Steph doesn’t get credit for all 4 rings because of missing the first 3 finals mvps, “0/9 without Scottie”, “Season was 50 games tho….”, But how many Hall of famers Russell have?” when some were 7/3 guys who made it just because they played with Bill Russell, and on and on and on?

You think you can just defeat the haters argument with your play?

Almost everyone here has some version of “Technically true, but obviously misleading” in their bag of tactics and everyone has some bullshit reason why there’s is valid and other peoples aren’t.

Almost every sports fan, including most of them here is simply incapable of letting an argument end with “I was wrong”. So the truth of the circumstances must be used to coat the bullshit of their conclusion.

So….”3 play ins and one was hurt” will be the honest bullshit Jokic will be attacked with should he win.

And if he wins again next year?

Lebron was too old, the warriors had fallen off, the Kings weren’t ready, Luka had Kyrie, KD was hurt, Ja was suspended, and the East was ass anyway. If they werent how could Cavs have been in the ecf?


Please learn from history and don’t get your hopes up that your guy can end these arguments with his basketball playing.

Haters don’t actually care how anyone plays. There will always be a criticism so long as truth can be used to tell lies.

Embiid vs Jokic will be an argument again by December.

1-9.

[Manny98]

When it's all said and done Embiid will be looked at as a Walmart version of Hakeem who consistently fails to get it done in the playoffs

[Kblaze8855]

1-9.

You are technically…correct.

[tontoz]

Failing to get out of the 2nd round yet again after being up 3-2 and shooting 5-18 in Game 7 definitely leaves a stain.

[ShawkFactory]

You are technically…correct.

Yea the horrible argument followed by the “I’m out here stating FACTS!” is one of the more annoying things that people do.

[tpols]

Yea the horrible argument followed by the “I’m out here stating FACTS!” is one of the more annoying things that people do.

What makes it worse is our resident embiid stan made a thread saying Miami would beat Denver 4-0 or 4-1. And now he's calling them a lowly 8 seed when his prediction didn't come to fruition. All that flip flopping in a span of a few days. Unbelievable...

[ShawkFactory]

What makes it worse is our resident embiid stan made a thread saying Miami would beat Denver 4-0 or 4-1. And now he's calling them a lowly 8 seed when his prediction didn't come to fruition. All that flip flopping in a span of a few days. Unbelievable...

Absolutely cowardly. I’d have more respect for him if he just ghosted instead of pulling that shit.

[Kblaze8855]

Yea the horrible argument followed by the “I’m out here stating FACTS!” is one of the more annoying things that people do.


Nothing more misleading than an indisputable fact in the hands of a liar.

[HighFlyer23]

Nothing more misleading than an indisputable fact in the hands of a liar.

Shutup you annoying twit

[Manny98]

Failing to get out of the 2nd round yet again after being up 3-2 and shooting 5-18 in Game 7 definitely leaves a stain.

Couldn't even beat the Trae Young Hawks

Embiids playoff resume is horrific at this point, worse than Harden and CP3

[SaltyMeatballs]

Couldn't even beat the Trae Young Hawks

Simmons deserves a lot of the blame for that too

[FultzNationRISE]

Simmons deserves a lot of the blame for that too

Well he got plenty of blame for it. From his own coach, among others :lol

In fact Simmons has basically been a meme ever since.

[ShawkFactory]

Couldn't even beat the Trae Young Hawks

Embiids playoff resume is horrific at this point, worse than Harden and CP3

Resume-wise it might be similar but I don't think these two are the same when it comes to playoff performace.

Harden is and mostly has been clearly just a way less effective player in the playoffs. That's been noted and is pretty much indisputable at this point. CP3, while perhaps coming up short at some of the biggest moments at times has generally played his game and played well in the playoffs. He's a break or two away from having a couple rings.

[RRR3]

Resume-wise it might be similar but I don't think these two are the same when it comes to playoff performace.

Harden is and mostly has been clearly just a way less effective player in the playoffs. That's been noted and is pretty much indisputable at this point. CP3, while perhaps coming up short at some of the biggest moments at times has generally played his game and played well in the playoffs. He's a break or two away from having a couple rings.
I can't really think of a time CP3 individually choked in terms of how he played apart from one (or was it two?) game(s) of the 2021 finals and if we're not allowing him one choke we're holding him to pretty crazy standards. Most of the narrative about him choking is just that-narrative, he has almost always maintained or even raised his level of play in the playoffs and been a victim of ill-timed injuries. He stays healthy in 2018 and he's seen as a clutch god for defeating the KD Curry Warriors. While it's certainly fair to dock CP3 in the rankings for his lack of durability compared to others, getting hurt isn't choking. As for Harden, while it's undeniable that he's had his share of chokes, I'm not sure what year people think he should have won a ring. The Warriors were in his way for most of the years he had a chance, and the other year he had a real chance his team was plagued by injuries (2021 Nets). Some of the horrendous performances he's had (you know, the 6-25 with 8 turnover type games) have masked the fact that he's never had a real shot to win a ring apart from 2012. While Harden was already a star level player in 2012 and definitely choked in that finals, he was without a doubt not yet in his prime so I don't think it's that fair to hold that one against him. In conclusion, it's true that Harden doesn't handle pressure well as some other superstars but he's also never really had a year he should have won a ring and didn't since he hit his prime.

[FultzNationRISE]

I can't really think of a time CP3 individually choked in terms of how he played apart from the 2021 finals and if we're not allowing him one choke we're holding him to pretty crazy standards. Most of the narrative about him choking is narrative, he has almost always maintained or even raised his level of play in the playoffs and been a victim of ill-timed injuries. He stays healthy in 2018 and he's seen as a clutch god for defeating the KD Curry Warriors. While it's certainly fair to dock CP3 in the rankings for his lack of durability compared to others, getting hurt isn't choking. As for Harden, while it's undeniable that he's had his share of chokes, I'm not sure what year people think he should have won a ring. The Warriors were in his way for most of the years he had a chance, and the other year he had a real chance his team was plagued by injuries (2021 Nets). Some of the horrendous performances he's had (you know, the 6-25 with 8 turnover type games) have masked the fact that he's never had a real shot to win a ring apart from 2012. While Harden was already a star level player in 2012 and definitely choked in that finals, he was without a doubt not yet in his prime so I don't think it's that fair to hold that one against him. In conclusion, it's true that Harden doesn't handle pressure well as some other superstars but he's also never really had a year he should have won a ring and didn't since he hit his prime.

There were definitely times in the post season with the Clippers where a game was on the line in the final moments and he was clearly their best option, but went inexplicably passive. I remember multiple times throughout his career where he single handedly kept his team in it down the stretch, only to suddenly disappear at the very end instead of taking the bull by the horns. And Im not talking about he made a play but then dished it off. I mean he basically avoided the action when it was down to the final minute. Very strange and not an isolated incident. It’s not a reputation ex nihilum (from nothing).

[kawhileonard2]

If you think Jokics playoffs will end that discussion you haven’t been paying attention to sports discussion the last 20 years.

This!