Do you see more great defense here or bad offense?

[Kblaze8855]

https://youtu.be/Ib-O6CLV7bo

Watch a bit of that on the toilet or something. You’ve got 4 minutes to spare right now I bet.

Ir was the second of 5 straight games no Pistons opponent would score 70 points. They held the Nuggets to 66 and without a made basket for 22 straight possessions.

Just give me your brief opinion on what’s happening there if you don’t mind.

[Carbine]

Half of it is missing shots that you'd normally see hit at a decent rate.

[Carbine]

Actually more than half of it, like pretty much all of it.

[SouBeachTalents]

I've gotten so used to the 14 second shot clock now I kept wondering why the hell they were taking so long after offensive rebounds :lol

As for the topic at hand, it seemed like a pretty even split, some possessions looked like great defense by Detroit, others Denver missed makeable shots or ran a poor offensive set.

It can sometimes be difficult to tell in a low scoring game if it is bad offense or great defense. If it's an '04 Pistons game, it's probably safe to say great defense, ditto the 2000 Ravens or '85 Bears. One I've always felt was a good debate was that wretched Pats-Rams Super Bowl from a few years ago, literally the most boring sporting event I've ever watched. That to me felt like bad offense more than great defense.

[iamgine]

There's also plenty of nice offense but they just miss the shots. Like Carmelo having open jumpers but it just doesn't go in. Unless we're categorizing wide open 2pt jumper as bad offense.

[Full Court]

It's some of both. Pistons are playing good defense, but I don't care how good the defense is, not scoring on 22 straight possessions means your offense sucks.

[bdonovan]

Pistons are doing a lot of things right on defense, Nuggets are doing a lot wrong, including team offense.

Watching the 2004 Nuggets is the exact opposite of the 2023 Nuggets. The latter have intimate awareness of where their teammates are. They space the court correctly. Off-ball, the Nuggets get open for the pass, they position themselves so the ball-handler has an "out". The ball-handler is looking to pass; there are plays where the pass leads to something not just moving the ball around willy-nilly.

The 2004 Nuggets are barely awake when they don't have the ball. They're not standing in the right place, either they're too close to the ball-handler or they run away, assuming they're pulling their defender away but in turn limiting the ball-handler's options should they not be able to score.

The 2004 Nuggets are also physically weak; getting pushed around. A similar case, using an example, Pistons guard is fronting Denver's guard and Denver's guard just gives up on the receiving the ball.

If you want to see how hopeless playing solo ball is look at 6:25- the Nuggets big man is wide open but the Nuggets ball-handler just dribbles away instead of giving it up and getting the easy dunk. This is what happens when you do not carefully track your teammates position and situation. The refusal to pass allows the Pistons to hound the ball and double-team.

Pistons are playing smothering D but so did the 2023 Heat using zone defense starting from Game 2 - offered something similar. The difference with the 2023 Nuggets was the higher iq of their coach and players to break that defensive scheme.

[FultzNationRISE]

There's also plenty of nice offense but they just miss the shots. Like Carmelo having open jumpers but it just doesn't go in. Unless we're categorizing wide open 2pt jumper as bad offense.

My honest thought as I watched that was it looked like some Shoeless Joe and the 1919 Black Sox stuff going on.

Did Tim Donaghey also ref that game?

[ArbitraryWater]

*using Melo as reference point, not mentioning FT fouls

1st one: great defense
2nd: great defense
3rd: wide open J missed (Melo)
4th: tip-in missed
5th: misses open floater
6th: makeabe layup missed (Melo)
7th: loses ball for no reason/turnover
8th: tough-ish shot missed
9th: J missed, not exacty ideal defense (Melo)
10th: another mid-range J missed, not exactly perfect defense
11th: great defense, forced turnover
12th: launch at the HT buzzer
13th: solid contest, airball
14th: nice charge drawn but Melo runs into him pretty wildy
15th: mid range J missed off curl, solid contest
16th: mid range J, okay contest but bad shot with Camby taking a 20 footer
17th: great interior defense/block by Wallace
18th: mid range J stop and pop missed (Melo)
19th: great fastbreak defense by Waace on Camby
20th: another ill advised long J by a PF/C that is obviously not suited for such shot



Mostly bad offense, a defense has a hard time being overwhemingly good for long stretches. At the end of the day, the ball is with the offense and they have the final say.

Very good off ball d though, chasing around, movement, switching.


Most notable were the Prince dunk and Rasheed alley oop dunk. Nice Ben Wallace alley to cap it off also.

[Duffy Pratt]

*using Melo as reference point, not mentioning FT fouls

1st one: great defense
2nd: great defense
3rd: wide open J missed (Melo)
4th: tip-in missed
5th: misses open floater
6th: makeabe layup missed (Melo)
7th: loses ball for no reason/turnover
8th: tough-ish shot missed
9th: J missed, not exacty ideal defense (Melo)
10th: another mid-range J missed, not exactly perfect defense
11th: great defense, forced turnover
12th: launch at the HT buzzer
13th: solid contest, airball
14th: nice charge drawn but Melo runs into him pretty wildy
15th: mid range J missed off curl, solid contest
16th: mid range J, okay contest but bad shot with Camby taking a 20 footer
17th: great interior defense/block by Wallace
18th: mid range J stop and pop missed (Melo)
19th: great fastbreak defense by Waace on Camby
20th: another ill advised long J by a PF/C that is obviously not suited for such shot



Mostly bad offense, a defense has a hard time being overwhemingly good for long stretches. At the end of the day, the ball is with the offense and they have the final say.

Very good off ball d though, chasing around, movement, switching.


Most notable were the Prince dunk and Rasheed alley oop dunk. Nice Ben Wallace alley to cap it off also.

Five of these misses were also fouls by Detroit, and one ended with a Denver possession off the out of bounds on the rebound. So that eliminates 6 of the 20, which were clearly not great defense. As you pointed out, six are definitely great defense. The thing not taken into account at all is that this Denver team thrived on running, and Detroit in this stretch has totally taken that away from them. Denver being bad in the half court set was expected, and here they are worse than normal, but not by a whole lot.

[Overdrive]

https://youtu.be/Ib-O6CLV7bo

Watch a bit of that on the toilet or something. You’ve got 4 minutes to spare right now I bet.

Ir was the second of 5 straight games no Pistons opponent would score 70 points. They held the Nuggets to 66 and without a made basket for 22 straight possessions.

Just give me your brief opinion on what’s happening there if you don’t mind.

Just watched a minute, but I guess it goes on like this.

The defense is not suffocating, but they are aware of the things the Nuggets do wrong and seize the opportunities.

The Nuggets play on ball picks that don't really lead anywhere. Some clearouts and almost no motion away from the ball.