How much better is Jokic than Embiid?

[GrayGoat]

Jokic appears to be a better winner. Thoughts?

[FultzNationRISE]

https://i.redd.it/zkadjw7ku0g41.jpg

[Airupthere]

Funny how Mask the Embiid loves using the Joker image.

https://i.guim.co.uk/img/media/826c17fa8aaf4f2cce923e7586037f8a5749de41/383_394_3443_2066/master/3443.jpg?width=620&quality=85&dpr=1&s=none

[bdonovan]

Jokic's advantage over Embiid lies not in offense (Embiid was #1 scorer in NBA, Jokic was 18th), nor in defense (Embiid received about 20 all-defense votes, Jokic got 0), but in team play and intangibles that it takes to win.

Watching Jokic play, you can see how his court vision and passing turns relatively mediocre players like Aaron Gordon, Michael Porter Jr, and KCP into stars. This is not about ball dominance assists like it was with Westbrook on OKC but a player who readily gives it up if a teammate has a good cut or open look.

There may be no better player in terms of drawing the double team and then having the split-second decision-making to know how to exploit it using his teammates. There are other times where he scores against the double (goes through the double team or fades back and shoots over them) which keeps them guessing; he won't Always pass out of the double.

When you combine that with his high efficiency in scoring, it makes for a lethal combination. You have to guard him because he will score, even in large volumes, but then him and his teammates have a kind of ESP where they know what the other one will do and punish you for doubling.

Some of this doesn't show up in the box scores but those qualities contribute to wins. I haven't watched Embiid to know enough what he does in this regard; for one thing, his team is not coached as well, and I doubt those teammates are cutting with regularity or moving off the ball the same way the Nuggets teammates do - which makes Jokic able to exploit the skills he has.

[90sgoat]

Jokic sets the best screens in the league, which gets Murray and others open looks all game long.

Embiid would rather call for a screen than a set a proper one.

[Session]

Jokic is capable of destroying the rival defense without scoring a single point.

[Spurs m8]

Jokic is a hard ass Serb with high iq, high strength and no emotion

Embiid is literally the opposite.
A flopping, crying b1tch

[GrayGoat]

Jokic's advantage over Embiid lies not in offense (Embiid was #1 scorer in NBA, Jokic was 18th), nor in defense (Embiid received about 20 all-defense votes, Jokic got 0), but in team play and intangibles that it takes to win.

Watching Jokic play, you can see how his court vision and passing turns relatively mediocre players like Aaron Gordon, Michael Porter Jr, and KCP into stars. This is not about ball dominance assists like it was with Westbrook on OKC but a player who readily gives it up if a teammate has a good cut or open look.

There may be no better player in terms of drawing the double team and then having the split-second decision-making to know how to exploit it using his teammates. There are other times where he scores against the double (goes through the double team or fades back and shoots over them) which keeps them guessing; he won't Always pass out of the double.

When you combine that with his high efficiency in scoring, it makes for a lethal combination. You have to guard him because he will score, even in large volumes, but then him and his teammates have a kind of ESP where they know what the other one will do and punish you for doubling.

Some of this doesn't show up in the box scores but those qualities contribute to wins. I haven't watched Embiid to know enough what he does in this regard; for one thing, his team is not coached as well, and I doubt those teammates are cutting with regularity or moving off the ball the same way the Nuggets teammates do - which makes Jokic able to exploit the skills he has.
Jokic’s advantage is also in offense because Embiid’s numbers drop like a rock in the playoffs

[Axe]

Funny how Mask the Embiid loves using the Joker image.

https://i.guim.co.uk/img/media/826c17fa8aaf4f2cce923e7586037f8a5749de41/383_394_3443_2066/master/3443.jpg?width=620&quality=85&dpr=1&s=none
:oldlol:

[Spuddywebby]

At 28, Jokic is a NBA champion and the Finals MVP.

At 29, Embiid hasn’t gotten past the second round in his career.

[HighFlyer23]

3 tiers over embiid

[kawhileonard2]

Jokic appears to be a better winner. Thoughts?

It's like Dwight vs Yao or Shaq vs Hakeem.

[BarberSchool]

As an individual one on one scorer, Embiid is better, and can score more comfortably in a slightly more versatile number of ways. Sure, he flops and baits fouls and gets hella cheap points at the line, even without that his one on one scoring versatility is better.

Embiid is slightly bigger, and can probably push heavier weights than jokic, but Jokic somehow uses his slightly smaller, less muscular physique better and more forcefully than Embiid uses his. Perhaps it’s Jokic’s legs or hips being slightly stronger, or perhaps it’s just Embiid’s nature, but the larger stronger body isn’t equating as often to greater physical dominance, other than maybe a big two hand dunk once a game, or a highlight block once a week for Embiid. While those plays are a lot more memorable, in the minds of simple fans watching sports center, the amount of points they put on the board or keep off the board, doesn’t occur as frequently as the “less sexy”/non-highlight-reel plays with Jokic physically using size and leverage for himself and for others.

Rebounding is roughly equal. Embiid should be superior in this regard as he is bigger with more muscle, but you could also say Jokic could get more RB, but chooses to softly tip so many rebounds both offensively and defensively to teammates before he himself ever gets possession.

Passing & playmaking obviously Jokic is vastly superior, and this is the largest gap between the two in any way. Jokic reads defensive scrambles and rotations out of doubles better than any post player in history. Only guards are better all time, than Jokic in terms of reading the game, and consistently making the BEST decision every possession.

Classical Rim protection Embiid vastly superior.

Steals and deflections Jokic vastly superior. Jokic is top 20-30 in steals many seasons, including this last season.

Another point to bring up is playoff performance:

Part of why Embiid offensive production dips in the playoffs, is a simple equation. The entire lower half of the teams are out, and almost nobody takes possessions off. Simple enough.

Embiid struggles to produce offense at the same rate he does in the regular season, against the top half of the league, using locked in elite defensive schemes, whereas Jokic doesn’t. Jokic actually increases his production, since he is mentally much more locked in himself, at a higher rate than other players can lock in. Jokic ability to correctly read, and fully recall and execute every single aspect of a game plan in real-time, with almost no mistakes, including some surprise reads that even surprise the coaching staff, and can change the opposing coaches schemes or coverages over the coarse of a 7-game series. Players who lack the ability to quickly adapt both on court, and in terms of grasping completely new concepts and schemes in a halftime or a day or two between games AGAINST THE SAME SQUAD, tend to perform slightly under their regular season averages in the playoffs. Players who quickly grasp and can recall and implement brand new tactics/adjustments/schemes, tend to perform better deeper in the playoffs, as they can hang when it gets mentally toughest, and this is a clear as day advantage for Jokic over Embiid.

So overall, if I’m taking one or the other for a make it take it 1v1 game to 11, I’ll take Embiid every time.

But if I have to take a player to play 5v5 in a 7-game series, I’d take Jokic every time.

[Full Court]

Jokic is a hard ass Serb with high iq, high strength and no emotion

Embiid is literally the opposite.
A flopping, crying b1tch

Pretty much this.