Patrick Ewing might have had the worst finals ever for a first option in 1994

[RRR3]

And it never gets talked about. In fact, his teammate John Starks usually gets the blame.

After averaging 24.5 PPG on 55.1 TS% in 37.6 MPG in the regular season, Ewing put up 23.1 PPG on 54.1 TS% in 40.2 MPG through the first 3 rounds of the playoffs. However, he was absolutely brutal in the finals, averaging 18.9 PPG on 39.0 TS% (even in a less efficient era this kind of inefficiency shouldn’t ever happen for a first option) in 44.0 MPG in a close 7 game series. This includes close losses in which his team could have won if he performed even marginally better. In game 1, the Knicks lost by 7. Ewing scored 23 points on 10-26 (41.4 TS%). In game 3, the Knicks lost by 4 points. Ewing scored 18 points on 9-29 shooting (an absolutely abysmal 31.0 TS%). In game 6, with New York just one win away from a championship, the Knicks lost by just two points. Ewing had 17 points on 6-20 shooting (38.3 TS%). In game 7 the Knicks had another chance to win, this time at home in MSG. They lost by 6 while Ewing put up 17 points on 7-17 (43.3 TS%) and had 5 turnovers. For reference John Starks averaged 17.7 PPG on 50.3 TS% in 41.9 MPG in the finals. He had one infamous game but overall he was much better than Ewing on offense, especially considering their normal levels of play.

While I’m aware Ewing was being guarded by Hakeem Olajuwon that isn’t an excuse for playing like a g leaguer.


Please don’t bring up bad finals LeBron, Kobe, Curry etc. had unless you’re going to actually attempt a reasonable argument as to how they’re worse than this one and not be a troll.

[bullettooth]

Yah but Starks shit the bed in stunning fashion in game 7 and ABSOLUTELY deserves a lot of blame, dude went 2/18!!!! What's crazy is that Pat Riley kept him in until the end and let him kept shooting. So it aint just Starks, Riley should have pulled his ass out of the game after going 1/11.... or at least get someone else to shoot it.

[RRR3]

Yah but Starks shit the bed in stunning fashion in game 7 and ABSOLUTELY deserves a lot of blame, dude went 2/18!!!! What's crazy is that Pat Riley kept him in until the end and let him kept shooting. So it aint just Starks, Riley should have pulled his ass out of the game after going 1/11.... or at least get someone else to shoot it.
No doubt Starks shit the bed in game 7, but it would have been over before that if Ewing even had a below average (for his standards) series. Ewing puts up even like 22 PPG on 43 TS% Knicks are champs. I don’t think it’s too much to ask a top 10 center in NBA history in his prime to put up 40 year old Jamal Crawford type scoring.

[WhiteKyrie]

LeBron in 2007 was pretty bad too
22 ppg on 36%
7 rpg
7 apg
In a easy sweep

[RRR3]

LeBron in 2007 was pretty bad too
22 ppg on 36%
7 rpg
7 apg
In a easy sweep
No trolling was specifically mentioned in the OP. LeBron scored quite a bit more in less minutes and was quite a bit more efficient (42.8 TS%). Additionally his team was much worse and they never had a chance in the series. Game 1 they were down 64-49 entering the fourth. LeBron had 6 points on 75 TS% in the fourth and the Cavs out scored the Spurs 27-21 to make the game look closer than it was. Final score 85-76. Game 2 the Spurs were blowing out the Cavs 89-62 entering the fourth. Cavs outscored them 30-14 (LeBron 8 points on 50.8 TS%) to again make the game look closer than it was. In case you are unaware teams that are far superior have a hard time keeping their foot on the gas pedal for 48 minutes against an inferior opponent which explains the stats in the fourth here. After that the series was effectively over as the Cavs were far undermanned. They closely lost the next two games, but LeBron was only atrocious in one of them so I’m not sure how he was on the same level as Ewing in this series. Especially considering this is before he entered his prime and he wasn’t a particularly great playoff performer until 2009.

Stop being a useless agenda poster, this is a serious thread.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Please don’t bring up bad finals LeBron, Kobe, Curry etc. had unless you’re going to actually attempt a reasonable argument as to how they’re worse than this one and not be a troll.

Evidently...some posters have no impulse control :lol

Anyway, you're right. It doesn't get talked about.

Scoring wise, Ewing had a pretty nice bag overall, but his efficiency was guard-like. If anything his defense gets under-looked. In the first 3 games of that finals, Pat held Hakeem to ~44% shooting. And in Game 7, 40% on the money.

[RRR3]

Evidently...some posters have no impulse control :lol

Anyway, you're right. It doesn't get talked about.

Scoring wise, Ewing had a pretty nice bag overall, but his efficiency was guard-like. If anything his defense gets under-looked. In the first 3 games of that finals, Pat held Hakeem to ~44% shooting. And in Game 7, 40% on the money.
I said people could bring them up if they can make a reasonable case. If he wanted to be taken seriously he should have brought up 2011 (which as bad as it was is still better than this stinker by Ewing IMO), bringing up 2007 from before LeBron was even a GOAT level player, was the same age (22) as most rookies were in the 80s and 90s and was playing with actual garbage against a dynasty (while still managing to put up much better scoring stats than Ewing) is just trolling. I'm sure someone is going to bring up Kobe in 2000 (15.6 PPG on 41.1 TS%), and my counter is that while awful, it's better than Ewing's because it was pre-prime Kobe, he wasn't the first option, his team won, and he got hurt in the series (not an excuse to keep shooting as much as he did but still). Kobe was also 21 in those finals, he would have likely still been in college in previous eras. 2004 is a better case for Kobe but I'd still say he played better than Ewing, although you might be able to argue he hurt his team more by breaking the offense.

[SouBeachTalents]

Of the lesser talked about bad Finals, I'd give shout outs to '97 Malone, '06 Dirk & Tatum.

[RRR3]

Of the lesser talked about bad Finals, I'd give shout outs to '97 Malone, '06 Dirk & Tatum.
97 Malone: 27.4 PPG in 36.6 MPG on 60.0 TS% in the regular season, down to 23.8 PPG in 40.8 MPG on 48.5 TS% in the finals. Certainly very but that looks more like a normal shitty series than Ewing's. It's still probably up there for bad superstar finals performances, but a 39.0 TS% is just unfathomably bad.

06 Dirk: 26.6 PPG in 38.1 MPG 58.9 TS% in the regular season, down to 22.8 PPG in 43.7 MPG on 53.0 TS% in the finals. Again quite bad for his standards, but not really eyepoppingly bad on the level of Ewing. You could argue because Dirk wasn't really a great defender his overall game suffered more I suppose though? Still 18.9 PPG in 44.0 MPG on 39.0 TS% is hard to beat.

22 Tatum: 26.9 PPG in 35.9 MPG on 57.8 TS% in the regular season, down to 21.5 PPG in 40.7 MPG on 48.1 TS% in the finals. I don't think Tatum is the same level of player as the other guys in this thread, so I'm less down on this performance although it was bad for sure. Weirdly he shot 45.5% from 3 in this series, but couldn't make 2 pointers at all. If his 3 was off, it would probably have challenged Ewing's.

[Im Still Ballin]

Sure. Just how important, impactful, and ultimately valuable was his defense though? I would need to watch all seven games completely, listen to what the commentators are saying, and read the newspaper articles. That would give me a comprehensive understanding of how he played.

[Full Court]

And it never gets talked about. In fact, his teammate John Starks usually gets the blame.

After averaging 24.5 PPG on 55.1 TS% in 37.6 MPG in the regular season, Ewing put up 23.1 PPG on 54.1 TS% in 40.2 MPG through the first 3 rounds of the playoffs. However, he was absolutely brutal in the finals, averaging 18.9 PPG on 39.0 TS% (even in a less efficient era this kind of inefficiency shouldn’t ever happen for a first option) in 44.0 MPG in a close 7 game series. This includes close losses in which his team could have won if he performed even marginally better. In game 1, the Knicks lost by 7. Ewing scored 23 points on 10-26 (41.4 TS%). In game 3, the Knicks lost by 4 points. Ewing scored 18 points on 9-29 shooting (an absolutely abysmal 31.0 TS%). In game 6, with New York just one win away from a championship, the Knicks lost by just two points. Ewing had 17 points on 6-20 shooting (38.3 TS%). In game 7 the Knicks had another chance to win, this time at home in MSG. They lost by 6 while Ewing put up 17 points on 7-17 (43.3 TS%) and had 5 turnovers. For reference John Starks averaged 17.7 PPG on 50.3 TS% in 41.9 MPG in the finals. He had one infamous game but overall he was much better than Ewing on offense, especially considering their normal levels of play.

While I’m aware Ewing was being guarded by Hakeem Olajuwon that isn’t an excuse for playing like a g leaguer.


Please don’t bring up bad finals LeBron, Kobe, Curry etc. had unless you’re going to actually attempt a reasonable argument as to how they’re worse than this one and not be a troll.

"Waahhhhhhhhh please please PLEASE don't bring up my hero Bronie!!!!"

:roll:

Yeah, let's discuss epic choke jobs and NOT talk about LeShrivel in 2007. Or 2011.

Nice try.

:lebroncry:

[warriorfan]

I said people could bring them up if they can make a reasonable case. If he wanted to be taken seriously he should have brought up 2011 (which as bad as it was is still better than this stinker by Ewing IMO), bringing up 2007 from before LeBron was even a GOAT level player, was the same age (22) as most rookies were in the 80s and 90s and was playing with actual garbage against a dynasty (while still managing to put up much better scoring stats than Ewing) is just trolling. I'm sure someone is going to bring up Kobe in 2000 (15.6 PPG on 41.1 TS%), and my counter is that while awful, it's better than Ewing's because it was pre-prime Kobe, he wasn't the first option, his team won, and he got hurt in the series (not an excuse to keep shooting as much as he did but still). Kobe was also 21 in those finals, he would have likely still been in college in previous eras. 2004 is a better case for Kobe but I'd still say he played better than Ewing, although you might be able to argue he hurt his team more by breaking the offense.


if you are excusing lebron for a poor finals because of him being 22 years old then what do you say about his win vs 22 and 23 year old westbrook and KD?



and I don’t see the difference really between 39 and 42 percent TS when you also account for league TS, the gap becomes so minimal. Both fall into the same category of epic choke jobs

[Kblaze8855]

It’s one of the things people overlook when they compare Hakeem to a lot of people. You always get the obligatory “Hakeem is a better defender….” then the “…but” that lets them gloss over it. Not only can that guy slaughter you on offense but he’s an all time elite defender. Not good. Not great. Shortlist for goat. Not only does he give you the 30/10 you need to stave off elimination he(largely he) holds his opposing HOF center to 6/20 shooting, steals the ball late to prevent the Knicks pulling away, and I believe next play he does this:



https://thumbs.gfycat.com/CavernousMeanIbisbill-size_restricted.gif


Switch at 30 feet and block the 3 that would have won the title.

Not send it to ot. That’s a title winning 3 point attempt from a red hot guard down 2. And the center switches and doesn’t get a contest…blocks it.

Defense absolutely wins championships….we all know it…but can’t wait to dismiss it as an important advantage in comparisons.

[warriorfan]

It’s one of the things people overlook when they compare Hakeem to a lot of people. You always get the obligatory “Hakeem is a better defender….” than the “…but” that lets them gloss over it. Not only can that guy slaughter you on offense but he’s an all time elite defender. Not good. Not great. Shortlist for goat. Not only does he give you the 30/10 you need to stave off elimination he(largely he) holds his opposing HOF center to 6/20 shooting, steals the ball late to prevent the Knicks pulling away, and I believe next play he does this:



https://thumbs.gfycat.com/CavernousMeanIbisbill-size_restricted.gif


Switch at 30 feet and block the 3 that would have won the title.

Not send it to ot. That’s a title winning 3 point attempt from a red hot guard down 2. And the center switches and doesn’t get a contest…blocks it.

Defense absolutely wins championships….we all know it…but can’t wait to dismiss it as an important advantage in comparisons.

Hakeem ”The Dream” Olajuwon

I love how hard he dribbled to his spot, but in all it didn’t matter. He was ****in with a goat.

[Patrick Chewing]

blasphemy

[Kblaze8855]

Hakeem ”The Dream” Olajuwon

I love how hard he dribbled to his spot, but in all it didn’t matter. He was ****in with a goat.


Starks wanted that ring then and there. He’d hit 5 threes in a time people didn’t hit 5 threes. Hakeem doesn’t block it he’s finals MVP and the mayor of New York. And you never even see that play in highlights. I admit “Blocked by James!” was a more spectacular play and in game 7 but that should be right there as the most famous of defensive plays ever. And almost nobody even knows it happened.

[warriorfan]

Starks wanted that ring then and there. He’d hit 5 threes in a time people didn’t hit 5 threes. Hakeem doesn’t block it he’s finals MVP and the mayor of New York. And you never even see that play in highlights. I admit “Blocked by James!” was a more spectacular play and in game 7 but that should be right there as the most famous of defensive plays ever. And almost nobody even knows it happened.

100

[RRR3]

blasphemy
It isn’t. Look at the numbers. He was all time dreadful on offense.

[kawhileonard2]

LeBron in 2007 was pretty bad too
22 ppg on 36%
7 rpg
7 apg
In a easy sweep

This

[houston]

Yeah that true Patrick fail his team

[ILLsmak]

yo I just posted how bad ball affects everything. Everyone has to be on point. If your perimeter isn't in there then you get busted + you vs Hakeem and Horry and whoever else is gonna jump on you. They were on point on defense, which is more amazing, they just didn't have a good offense.

Pat Riley might be a better Don than coach, but he can coach. Coaching is about getting the best out of your players. He does that. He's not really ready to set up an advanced scheme, nor is Gundy or whoever his assistant is. You need a guy on your sideline who can see the defense and set things up, then you need people to make shots.

But yea all of those 89 to 93 score games, haha. Was prol brutal. Like the Pistons vs Spurs. Teams have styles. If people are wiggin and don't get you the ball right, it's bad, too. Just like if Starks went off it might be due to Ewing doing well. I'd have to watch it again, but I'd be surprised if he got badly outplayed. Honestly.

Remm SENSATIONALISM MAKES HISTORY. It's all over blown.

-Smak

[eliteballer]

LeBron's 2011 is clearly leagues ahead of this.

Super Team
Beat by a bunch of Old Men
Not playing on glass knees

[Soundwave]

It's actually kinda crazy the Knicks were up 3-2 in that series with two shots to close it out. Seemed like after that OJ chase the momentum flipped to the Rockets lol.

[ILLsmak]

And it never gets talked about. In fact, his teammate John Starks usually gets the blame.

After averaging 24.5 PPG on 55.1 TS% in 37.6 MPG in the regular season, Ewing put up 23.1 PPG on 54.1 TS% in 40.2 MPG through the first 3 rounds of the playoffs. However, he was absolutely brutal in the finals, averaging 18.9 PPG on 39.0 TS% (even in a less efficient era this kind of inefficiency shouldn’t ever happen for a first option) in 44.0 MPG in a close 7 game series. This includes close losses in which his team could have won if he performed even marginally better. In game 1, the Knicks lost by 7. Ewing scored 23 points on 10-26 (41.4 TS%). In game 3, the Knicks lost by 4 points. Ewing scored 18 points on 9-29 shooting (an absolutely abysmal 31.0 TS%). In game 6, with New York just one win away from a championship, the Knicks lost by just two points. Ewing had 17 points on 6-20 shooting (38.3 TS%). In game 7 the Knicks had another chance to win, this time at home in MSG. They lost by 6 while Ewing put up 17 points on 7-17 (43.3 TS%) and had 5 turnovers. For reference John Starks averaged 17.7 PPG on 50.3 TS% in 41.9 MPG in the finals. He had one infamous game but overall he was much better than Ewing on offense, especially considering their normal levels of play.

While I’m aware Ewing was being guarded by Hakeem Olajuwon that isn’t an excuse for playing like a g leaguer.


Please don’t bring up bad finals LeBron, Kobe, Curry etc. had unless you’re going to actually attempt a reasonable argument as to how they’re worse than this one and not be a troll.

Is this related to Butler? Butler balled out. He shot poorly, but BAD BASKETBALL LOSES GAMES. There are 7 games. Watch the games. They are all on youtube.

Also it makes sense that Starks shit will go up and Ewings would go down if they hard planned for Ewing, and that was game 7. Constant adjustments, all time defender, dudes gotta make shots. I'm not excusing anything, but there is always more to the story.

-Smak

[Micku]

He was going through an injury I believe. Ewing had to get surgery after the finals. He went through arthroscopic surgery on his right knee. Dude constantly had knee problems. Don't know how long he played through it and when it got bad for him, but it happened. He had another surgery the following year on the same knee.

But he still didn't play great.

[ILLsmak]

He was going through an injury I believe. Ewing had to get surgery after the finals. He went through arthroscopic surgery on his right knee. Dude constantly had knee problems. Don't know how long he played through it and when it got bad for him, but it happened. He had another surgery the following year on the same knee.

But he still didn't play great.

I'ma check it haha

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1sIiR8LWqio incase you need the link.

Edit: yea imo Oak n Starks aren't championship players.

-Smak

[RRR3]

He was going through an injury I believe. Ewing had to get surgery after the finals. He went through arthroscopic surgery on his right knee. Dude constantly had knee problems. Don't know how long he played through it and when it got bad for him, but it happened. He had another surgery the following year on the same knee.

But he still didn't play great.
Was he injured the entire playoffs or did he just get hurt right before the finals? Because he was producing at relatively close to his normal level in the playoffs before the finals.

[jstern]

This is clearly a troll thread, created due to RRR3's hatred of Patrick Chewing.

[Micku]

Was he injured the entire playoffs or did he just get hurt right before the finals? Because he was producing at relatively close to his normal level in the playoffs before the finals.

Who knows.

He could've aggravated a bit before the Finals or he was just dealing with it the whole playoffs. Either way, he had to get surgery, so he battling it at least by time the finals.

Sometimes we don't know these things. Like I didn't know Kobe was hurt in the 2010 finals. He had bone spurs and screwed-up finger. At least I don't remember. MJ also had an ankle and toe injury during the 91 finals, but no one talks about it cuz he had a stellar finals.

[tpols]

Knicks didn't win with their offense, they won with their defense. Of which Ewing was the linchpin. He had a bad offensive series but was still Ben Wallace for the other half of the game.

[Patrick Chewing]

It's actually kinda crazy the Knicks were up 3-2 in that series with two shots to close it out.

https://i.imgflip.com/4/386m40.jpg


I can't. I just cant.

[RRR3]

Knicks didn't win with their offense, they won with their defense. Of which Ewing was the linchpin. He had a bad offensive series but was still Ben Wallace for the other half of the game.
A 39.0 TS% isn’t defensible when you’re the first option and relied upon to put up big numbers. That’s impossibly bad. And they did rely on Ewing to give them an efficient 24-25 and he didn’t come anywhere close in the finals.

[warriorfan]

This is clearly a troll thread, created due to RRR3's hatred of Patrick Chewing.

I’m not gonna lie I got a pretty big kick out of RRR3’s desperate failed attempt at building context when he realized his same standards could be held to LBJ. :lol

Bron stans always have the best backfires

[tpols]

A 39.0 TS% isn’t defensible when you’re the first option and relied upon to put up big numbers. That’s impossibly bad. And they did rely on Ewing to give them an efficient 24-25 and he didn’t come anywhere close in the finals.

As others have said it's possible he was hurt. Guys back then didn't show weakness or sit out. Either way the guy was a warrior, and not somebody you'd want to step in the paint with. It's remarkable to me how Riley went from showtime Lakers all about offense to those gritty Knicks teams. Ewing was the cornerstone though and 1 shot away from champion.

[Soundwave]

It does look like Ewing had surgery on his knee a couple of weeks after the NBA Finals:

https://www.nytimes.com/1994/07/07/sports/sports-people-basketball-ewing-undergoes-knee-surgery.html

So it's likely he was play injured in the Finals.

[FKAri]

He got iced by OJ.

[guy]

It’s pretty easily Lebron’s 2011 finals. Forget the numbers. That type of disappearing act disrupts chemistry and kills a team confidence. You didn’t question Ewing’s effort, who shot badly in what was a drag-out defense oriented series overall where he was guarded by literally arguably the greatest defender ever at his peak

[HoopsNY]

It's actually kinda crazy the Knicks were up 3-2 in that series with two shots to close it out. Seemed like after that OJ chase the momentum flipped to the Rockets lol.

Tell me about it. I remember DURING the finals, NBC switched the game to the chase and both me and my dad were pissed lol.

[HoopsNY]

Starks wanted that ring then and there. He’d hit 5 threes in a time people didn’t hit 5 threes. Hakeem doesn’t block it he’s finals MVP and the mayor of New York. And you never even see that play in highlights. I admit “Blocked by James!” was a more spectacular play and in game 7 but that should be right there as the most famous of defensive plays ever. And almost nobody even knows it happened.

This^. Hakeem was THAT guy. The GOAT that no one except me acknowledges, simply because he didn't have the luxury that everyone else had. Hakeem was just a phenomenal defensive player, the greatest to ever do it.

[imdaman99]

This was a tough time in my life

[RRR3]

This was a tough time in my life
For some reason I thought you were way younger

[imdaman99]

For some reason I thought you were way younger

I look and act a lot younger than I am :lol it helps that I don't drink or smoke. I'm the fun uncle

I was young watching this finals, thought they would eventually get a chip and I would bust the biggest nut to it but haven't even been close to even getting blue balled

[HoopsNY]

I look and act a lot younger than I am :lol it helps that I don't drink or smoke. I'm the fun uncle

I was young watching this finals, thought they would eventually get a chip and I would bust the biggest nut to it but haven't even been close to even getting blue balled

Same here. That loss was crushing and we just couldn't overcome the hurdles as each year went by. Ewing's wrist injury certainly didn't help. I felt like if we had made a serious run in '98, then 1997 was that year. But then the bench brawl with Miami happened with all the suspensions and the rest is history. Smh.

[Goldrush25]

if you are excusing lebron for a poor finals because of him being 22 years old then what do you say about his win vs 22 and 23 year old westbrook and KD?



and I don’t see the difference really between 39 and 42 percent TS when you also account for league TS, the gap becomes so minimal. Both fall into the same category of epic choke jobs

everyone says OKC gets a pass for that because they were babies, so don't know what you mean. 2007 was a legit win for SAS and 2012 was a legit win for the heat

And for 2007, the loss is excusable primarily because the Cavs consisted of Lebron and a bunch of make-a-wish kids.

[RRR3]

everyone says OKC gets a pass for that because they were babies, so don't know what you mean. 2007 was a legit win for SAS and 2012 was a legit win for the heat

And for 2007, the loss is excusable primarily because the Cavs consisted of Lebron and a bunch of make-a-wish kids.
He’s a troll there’s a reason he’s being ignored.