Nick Wright and Cowherd: ONLY LEBRON can succeed with the super-team route

[3ba11]

They say that KD and others have largely failed with super-teams. But the issue with their argument is that Lebron was 1st mover in the colluding space - he was the first guy to execute the player-driven collusion, which was a big advantage over other guys that tried it later when everyone was already trying it and the competitive field had already tightened - the super-team didn't land like it once did when the first guy tried it.

Lebron 1st-mover status locked down the league with 3 chips in 6 years and preseason favorite status for 6 straight years (11-16') - Durant's only mistake was waiting 6 years to respond.

The other issue is that it takes skill and ability to build chemistry, fits and strategy over numerous years for organic winning, so this learning curve of how to win is clearly harder than getting the cheat code and all-star team strategy for immediate favorite status (super-team collusion.. talent-based winning).

[Axe]

1-9

[SouBeachTalents]

1-9

[Nb1]

What Lebron did was the hardest. When you look at Spurs, Warriors, Bucks, Raptors, Denver, all the champs were a well oiled team and had their key players playing together for years and just added the right pieces along.

Going to the worst team in the league for the last 5 yrs and changing the roster and winning a chip is unprecedented, only Bron can do that.

I don’t know how retarded anyone has to be to think that you can just put a few guys together and tomorrow they’ll deliver you a chip. The easy road is to have a good core and add pieces. Colluding is hard and showed how no one other than bron can do it.

Now KD joined a 70+ win team and now a 60+ win team its totally different than Bron joining a 17win team in the Lakers…

[Full Court]

He's the only player in the history of the sport to lead a super team to the lottery. So there's that.

Chronic underachiever. Nobdoy's done less with more.

[j3lademaster]

KD has largely failed with super teams. He’s had superteams basically his entire career, and the only times he’s dominated in the playoffs were his GS years, and 2021. GS years he was on a team who were championship caliber, if not the favorites without him, and 2021 the Nets were injured and he had no expectations. He has a history of coming up short in the playoffs. Now his new super team just got Bradley Beal, so let’s see if he can finally win one with a “insanely stacked, but at least they arent championship favorites without him” team.

[r15mohd]

He's the only player in the history of the sport to lead a super team to the lottery. So there's that.

Chronic underachiever. Nobdoy's done less with more.

but you've said Lebron is not the main guy for the Lakers, even when they won the title in 2020 "it was all AD"...how could Lebron have led them to the lottery if that's the case :hammerhead:

[3ba11]

Spurs, Warriors, Bucks, Raptors, Denver, all the champs were a well oiled team and had their key players playing together for years





Those teams weren't gifted well-oiled machines.

They developed them over numerous years, which is what Lebron can't do because his skillset imposes spot-up roles that stall young players, thereby needing ready-made stars to win.

His bad fits with most player types confirms that he doesn't play 5 positions - he simply has a point guard skillset.. This point guard skilset equals abnormal ball-dominance for his size and position, which imposes spot-up roles - the spot-up roles limit teammate development, fits or strategic capacity/coaching, so Lebron has perennial underdogs regardless of cast.. this is the historical record and statistically provable.






What Lebron did was the hardest.





On 2 separate occasions, Lebron was gifted preseason favorites in Year 1 (2011 and 2015), which is easier than building favorite status over numerous years by developing teammates, chemistry and brand of ball.

If Lebron's super-team path was harder, why didn't he take the "easier" route and do what Denver and Milwaukee did??... Oh wait.. He already tried that from 2004-2011 but failed because his skillset of imposing spot-up roles doesn't develop chemistry or teammates, thereby needing ready-made stars to win.

[Nb1]

Those teams weren't gifted well-oiled machines.

They developed them over numerous years, which is what Lebron can't do because his skillset imposes spot-up roles that stall young players, thereby needing ready-made stars to win.

His bad fits with most player types confirms that he doesn't play 5 positions - he simply has a point guard skillset.. This point guard skilset equals abnormal ball-dominance for his size and position, which imposes spot-up roles - the spot-up roles limit teammate development, fits or strategic capacity/coaching, so Lebron has perennial underdogs regardless of cast.. this is the historical record and statistically provable.






On 2 separate occasions, Lebron was gifted preseason favorites in Year 1 (2011 and 2015), which is easier than building favorite status over numerous years by developing teammates, chemistry and brand of ball.

If Lebron's super-team path was harder, why didn't he take the "easier" route and do what Denver and Milwaukee did??... Oh wait.. He already tried that from 2004-2011 but failed because his skillset of imposing spot-up roles doesn't develop chemistry or teammates, thereby needing ready-made stars to win.

Lol dude won in 3 different teams with 3 total different group of players. How can you say his skillset doesn't fit...

If anything he's the only guy that fits with everybody since he proved it and won with all the teams he played with and started them all basically from the scratch. Look in the history, 95% of teams that won developped it during yrs of playing together, what Bron did no one can do it.

You either develop your team or join a strong core already to win. Just picking the worst teams in the league and putting players together and win? Only Bron can do that and proved it!

[Full Court]

but you've said Lebron is not the main guy for the Lakers, even when they won the title in 2020 "it was all AD"...how could Lebron have led them to the lottery if that's the case :hammerhead:

Lebron is the leader of the team. AD is a beta.

AD, however, is also the best player on the team. No AD, no playoffs. Don't conflate best player with leader.

[SATAN]

Meanwhile Chicago had a big 3 and couldn't even make the playoffs. :facepalm

[Bacchus]

1-9

Lebron 0 and 2 bronze medals without Kobe in international play.Losing to Greece & Puerto Rico

[3ba11]

Lol dude won in 3 different teams with 3 total different group of players. How can you say his skillset doesn't fit


You say that Lebron won with 3 teams, which is a fact made irrelevant by him underachieving with 3 teams - any all-timer could go 1/4 with AD, or 1/4 with Love, or 1/4 with Wade (except the Allen miracle) and of course I haven't even mentioned the other stars like Kyrie or Bosh.. Being a 1/4 guy regardless of lineup confirms that he isn't capable of a 3-peat, dynasty or 6 chips with any lineup, aka objectively inferior to MJ.

Now once again, the question is WHY do Lebron's team underachieve with favored talent, aka preseason favorite - it's because Lebron's skillset of abnormal ball-dominance for his size/position imposes spot-up roles, which doesn't develop teammates, fits or strategic capacity/coaching, thereby yielding perennial underdogs regardless of cast or preseason favorite status.

[Nb1]

You say that Lebron won with 3 teams, which is a fact made irrelevant by him underachieving with 3 teams - any all-timer could go 1/4 with AD, or 1/4 with Love, or 1/4 with Wade (except the Allen miracle) and of course I haven't even mentioned the other stars like Kyrie or Bosh.. Being a 1/4 guy regardless of lineup confirms that he isn't capable of a 3-peat, dynasty or 6 chips with any lineup, aka objectively inferior to MJ.

Now once again, the question is WHY do Lebron's team underachieve with favored talent, aka preseason favorite - it's because Lebron's skillset of abnormal ball-dominance for his size/position imposes spot-up roles, which doesn't develop teammates, fits or strategic capacity/coaching, thereby yielding perennial underdogs regardless of cast or preseason favorite status.

AD prior to joining Bron had a 5-9 playoff record...
Love i don't even think he ever made the playoffs before joining Bron.
How many rings do these guys have without Bron? ZERO. Why didn't they win more with other people if they're so good?

The only one i'll give to you is Wade, but that was a team that lost in the first round before Lebron came and was also a 15-67 win team with Wade lol.

Then Bron came and they went 4 times in a row to the finals. Sorry bro, if you want to discredit anyone you have to pick another player.

No one other than Bron takes mediocre teams and make them winners in a heartbeat...

[3ba11]

AD prior to joining Bron had a 5-9 playoff record...
Love i don't even think he ever made the playoffs before joining Bron.
How many rings do these guys have without Bron? ZERO. Why didn't they win more with other people if they're so good?

The only one i'll give to you is Wade, but that was a team that lost in the first round before Lebron came and was also a 15-67 win team with Wade lol.

Then Bron came and they went 4 times in a row to the finals. Sorry bro, if you want to discredit anyone you have to pick another player.

No one other than Bron takes mediocre teams and make them winners in a heartbeat...


You give credit to Wade (bolded above), and that's all I need - how many FMVP's does someone need to teach them how to win - most guys don't get anyone, while Lebron was lucky to get Wade.

And you're forgetting that Lebron was locked up by the 07' Spurs and 08' Celtics, so history shows that Lebron was either locked up, upset or lottery for every season from 2004-2011 (except 2006, but only 26 on 45% vs Pistons)... and this includes three 2nd Round losses and 2 lotteries.

So Lebron was a perennial loser before the "decision" just like all the guys that you're bashing..

He couldn't win the East with homecourt in 09/10, so he took the top 3 first options in the conference and put them on 1 team - only then did he make a bunch of Finals and dominate a conference that he diluted by teaming up with opponents and all the best franchise players in the conference.

Btw, in addition to KD and Lebron needing ready-made champions (Curry, Wade), Lebron is the only guy that needed franchise players at 2nd and 3rd option to outplay league MVP's like Curry, Jokic or Dirk - Lebron's sidekicks outplayed all these guys - no one ever had help like that where sidekicks are destroying league MVP's.. Show me a promo from the 93' Finals that said "big forward matchup between Pippen and Barkley".. That would've been absurd because no one viewed Pippen as being on that level with the top guys, whereas Lebron has #1 picks and franchise players outplay league MVP's.. It's night and day - Lebron has FAR superior help.

[Full Court]

You say that Lebron won with 3 teams, which is a fact made irrelevant by him underachieving with 3 teams - any all-timer could go 1/4 with AD, or 1/4 with Love, or 1/4 with Wade (except the Allen miracle) and of course I haven't even mentioned the other stars like Kyrie or Bosh.. Being a 1/4 guy regardless of lineup confirms that he isn't capable of a 3-peat, dynasty or 6 chips with any lineup, aka objectively inferior to MJ.

Now once again, the question is WHY do Lebron's team underachieve with favored talent, aka preseason favorite - it's because Lebron's skillset of abnormal ball-dominance for his size/position imposes spot-up roles, which doesn't develop teammates, fits or strategic capacity/coaching, thereby yielding perennial underdogs regardless of cast or preseason favorite status.

Any other all-timer could have made it to the playoffs without AD.

[Manny98]

Superteams fail because most of them lack any depth and are just incredibly top heavy

The best teams contain just two stars and quality role players around them

[3ba11]

Superteams fail because most of them lack any depth and are just incredibly top heavy

The best teams contain just two stars and quality role players around them


"lacking depth" is a results-oriented term that is usually reserved for losing teams..

the issue is that bench players can't play well if there's bad chemistry, whereas they almost always play well when there's good chemistry.. So super-teams often have bad chemistry like the Nets for example, which causes everyone to say they had no depth despite having guys like Bruce Brown who was fanstastic "depth" for the Nuggets.... Or the super-team Cavs had no depth, except they had all-star Korver, 6th MOY Smith, 10 RPG Tristan, defensive ace Shumpert, and on and on and on.. Mosgov... Those teams had tons and tons of guys come and go but Lebron's bad chemistry makes team seem weak.. Aaron Gordon is another guy that most people said wouldn't provide a team with championship "depth", yet voila - great chemistry = depth

[kawhileonard2]

He lost with peak Duncan and Iverson and won bronze medal. Durant never got a bronze medal.