If rookie Pip joined 10' Lebron, would his 7.9 ppg be on chopping block or cultivated

[3ba11]

Obviously chopping block - not enough help

And apparently Pippen wasn't a hard worker in HS:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ir1ZCmHKYKc&t=06m17s

[Phoenix]

If peak Salma Hayek sat on your face and offered you some free ******, would you cultivate it or think about a new Pippen thread?

[Full Court]

Jordan with Pippen three-peated TWICE.

Lebron with Pippen wouldn't have made it out of the first round of playoffs.

[nayte]

Eh I will give that one. Pip would probs be traded pretty quickly

[ShawkFactory]

Eh I will give that one. Pip would probs be traded pretty quickly

I think it depends on when. If it was 2014 or later then yea probably.

If it was 2008 then no.

[ArbitraryWater]

Pippen joined MJ in year 8?

[3ba11]

I think it depends on when. If it was 2014 or later then yea probably.

If it was 2008 then no.


If Pippen joins Lebron in 2008, then he wouldn't be good enough by 2010 for Lebron to stay - 3rd year Pippen had the migraine so he FACILITATES lebron's meltdown in the 10' Playoffs... And 3rd year Pippen would've looked insufficient to Lebron, since he was a lower producer than Mo or Jamison based on PER, WS/48, scoring or efficiency.

Don't make me post the stats showing how 1990 Pippen was inferior to the Mo, Hughes or Jamison acquisitions across the board.. He would've looked like a garbage bricklayer/lane-clogger that needs the ball and therefore doesn't fit with Bron

Of course a young ball-handler like Pippen that needs a ton of development cannot develop alongside a someone that makes them a spot-up shooter... So Pippen would be a bad fit and shipped off pretty quickly.. Veterans like Hughes, Ingram or Westbrook had bad fits with Lebron and were shipped away, so why would a 7 ppg rookie bricklayer and ball-needer be any different.. Otoh, Pippen fit with Jordan because Jordan played off-ball and a lot of his buckets were assisted, so he was a goat assist target that made the ball-handler's job easier.. That's why Pippen grew tons each year under MJ, while Lebron would try to turn a young bricklayer like Pippen into a spot-up shooter

[ShawkFactory]

If Pippen joins Lebron in 2008, then he wouldn't be good enough by 2010 for Lebron to stay - 3rd year Pippen had the migraine so he FACILITATES lebron's meltdown in the 10' Playoffs... And 3rd year Pippen would've looked insufficient to Lebron, since he was a lower producer than Mo or Jamison based on PER, WS/48, scoring or efficiency.

Don't make me post the stats showing how 1990 Pippen was inferior to the Mo, Hughes or Jamison acquisitions across the board.. He would've looked like a garbage bricklayer/lane-clogger that needs the ball and therefore doesn't fit with Bron

Of course a young ball-handler like Pippen that needs a ton of development cannot develop alongside a someone that makes them a spot-up shooter... So Pippen would be a bad fit and shipped off pretty quickly.. Veterans like Hughes, Ingram or Westbrook had bad fits with Lebron and were shipped away, so why would a 7 ppg rookie bricklayer and ball-needer be any different.. Otoh, Pippen fit with Jordan because Jordan played off-ball and a lot of his buckets were assisted, so he was a goat assist target that made the ball-handler's job easier.. That's why Pippen grew tons each year under MJ, while Lebron would try to turn a young bricklayer like Pippen into a spot-up shooter

It’s astonishing how many times you can post the same thing that’s been debunked over and over.

I’m sure you’ll take me not caring enough to do it yet again as a victory. Enjoy.

[SouBeachTalents]

It’s astonishing how many times you can post the same thing that’s been debunked over and over.

I’m sure you’ll take me not caring enough to do it yet again as a victory. Enjoy.
He just doesn't give a shit about the actual facts :lol Just as an example, I've debunked his '95 Bulls being nearly lottery talking point numerous times, pointing out they were 9 games out of the lottery when Jordan came back. But lo and behold, he still posts it and will continue to do so, among his other copy and paste notes, well into the 2030's.

[3ba11]

It’s astonishing how many times you can post the same thing that’s been debunked over and over.

I’m sure you’ll take me not caring enough to do it yet again as a victory. Enjoy.


It's never been debunked - you're lying

It's the historical record that can't be debunked and you've certainly never had the balls to try

[3ba11]

He just doesn't give a shit about the actual facts :lol Just as an example, I've debunked his '95 Bulls being nearly lottery





The Bulls were nearly lottery before MJ returned because the 7 seed and 34-31 is borderline lottery

Regardless of the splitting hairs, the Bulls were borderline .500 when MJ returned, so Pippen destroyed a 3-peat dynasty in less than 18 months.. Any team with Pippen as the best scorer will fall out of contention QUICKLY due to lack of talent, even a 3-peat dynasty like we saw in 95

You've never refuted this (because it's historical record)

[JohnMax]

So why doesn't MJ have success without top tier talents like Pippen, Grant, and Rodman? He was 1-9 before Pippen and got beat by Orlando without Grant or Rodman.

[ShawkFactory]

It’s astonishing how many times you can post the same thing that’s been debunked over and over.

I’m sure you’ll take me not caring enough to do it yet again as a victory. Enjoy.

Called it.

[3ba11]

So why doesn't MJ have success without top tier talents like Pippen, Grant, and Rodman? He was 1-9 before Pippen and got beat by Orlando without Grant or Rodman.


Jordan's early casts were like Lebron's 2004 or 2005 casts, except they weren't lucky enough to avoid the 8 vs 1 matchup by missing Playoffs like Bron's teams, so Jordan was forced to carry 8 seeds or low seeds, which Lebron never did until 2021 (1st Round exit).

Lebron avoided bad playoff teams, low seeds and the 8 vs 1 matchup by waiting 3 years to make the 06' Playoffs as a veteran high seed.. The all-star duo of Lebron/Zydrunas added a HOF coach and 22/5/5 all-defender acquisition to make 06' Playoffs.

The problem is that people punish Jordan for setting the goat standard of winning with the first all-star that he ever got and never needing another one, while everyone else in history needed MANY all-star teammates... And it's not like Pippen was this franchise player or elite producer or dominator or #1 pick like other sidekicks (Kareem, Kobe, Wade, AD, Kyrie, etc)

[3ba11]

Jordan's early casts were like Lebron's 2004 or 2005 casts, except they weren't lucky enough to avoid the 8 vs 1 matchup by missing Playoffs like Bron's teams, so Jordan was forced to carry 8 seeds or low seeds, which Lebron never did until 2021 (1st Round exit).

Lebron avoided bad playoff teams, low seeds and the 8 vs 1 matchup by waiting 3 years to make the 06' Playoffs as a veteran high seed.. The all-star duo of Lebron/Zydrunas added a HOF coach and 22/5/5 all-defender acquisition to make 06' Playoffs.

The problem is that people punish Jordan for setting the goat standard of winning with the first all-star that he ever got and never needing another one, while everyone else in history needed MANY all-star teammates... And it's not like Pippen was this franchise player or elite producer or dominator or #1 pick like other sidekicks (Kareem, Kobe, Wade, AD, Kyrie, etc)


This will go unrefuted and then Shawk will pop his head up in some thread and claim it's been "debunked many times" lol . The worst deflection ever (pretending you've already responded to it)

[RogueBorg]

Chopping block. Lebron needs ready-made players.

[3ba11]

I think it depends on when. If it was 2014 or later then yea probably.

If it was 2008 then no.


You mean if it was 2009 or later because 2009 is when Mo taught everyone that great spacing allows Lebron's stiff-arm to be MVP and his team the favorite - from that point forward, every GM tries to pack Lebron's rosters with spacing, so Pippen probably can't even get drafted to a Lebron team from 2009 onwards, let alone develop in a spot-up role alongside the biggest ball-dominator of all time.

[ShawkFactory]

You mean if it was 2009 or later because 2009 is when Mo taught everyone that great spacing allows Lebron's stiff-arm to be MVP and his team the favorite - from that point forward, every GM tries to pack Lebron's rosters with spacing, so Pippen probably can't even get drafted to a Lebron team from 2009 onwards, let alone develop in a spot-up role alongside the biggest ball-dominator of all time.

Well and they also play the same position so it makes sense that the fit wouldn't be ideal compared to other guys that could be drafted there.

I doubt the Bulls are drafting say..Bradley Beal in the top 5 with Jordan there. They'll likely go with another top prospect at a different position that complements him better.

Not really rocket science.

[3ba11]

Well and they also play the same position so it makes sense that the fit wouldn't be ideal compared to other guys that could be drafted there.

I doubt the Bulls are drafting say..Bradley Beal in the top 5 with Jordan there. They'll likely go with another top prospect at a different position that complements him better.

Not really rocket science.


The Bulls didn't use a true PG, so why wouldn't they want Beal to replace Paxson?.. He's literally a rich man's Paxson... like, REALLY rich..

The Bulls pursued ball movement over ball-domination, so Beal and MJ would be an insane combination of goat assist targets that still average 5-6 assists each.. It would be similar to MJ/Pippen except Beal would be a deluxe scorer/shooter, while an hustler can replace Pippen at SF (Jeff Green, Andre Roberson, etc - tons of guys - the "hustler" player-type is the easiest type to replace)

And Lebron has a point guard skillset, so he can easily adapt to a shooter if that's what Pippen was - and that's the point that you avoided - Lebron cannot win with bricklayers like Pippen, so Pippen wouldn't get drafted even if he played a different position.. Or even the 2020 Lakers (with Lebron at PG) would not want a bricklayer and lane-clogger like Pippen - it would be the classic "bad fit" that gets shipped out like Westbrick (btw, Pippen literally compares himself to a bad Westbrick fit here (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XmBbmIE_Kxc&t=114s)).

[ShawkFactory]

The Bulls didn't use a true PG, so why wouldn't they want Beal to replace Paxson?.. He's literally a rich man's Paxson... like, REALLY rich..



When did I say they wouldn't want him?

All I said is that if they were picking in the top 5 they'd go for another position. They don't get both so with Jordan there they're drafting Pippen.

And with Pippen/Beal on the board for the 2007 Cavs then they're drafting Beal.

My exact point from previously.

[3ba11]

When did I say they wouldn't want him?

All I said is that if they were picking in the top 5 they'd go for another position. They don't get both so with Jordan there they're drafting Pippen.

And with Pippen/Beal on the board for the 2007 Cavs then they're drafting Beal.

My exact point from previously.


So you agreed from the beginning that Lebron wouldn't draft a bricklayer like Pippen, while MJ went 6/6 with Pippen's worst-ever efficiency and lane-clogging.. aka MJ can win with less

And of course we know that Pippen can't develop alongside a ball-dominator like Lebron - Lebron would have zero rings with Pippen and jump-ship to form another super-team, or simply put Pippen on the chopping block like Ingram or Westbrook or hughes

[ShawkFactory]

So you agreed from the beginning that Lebron wouldn't draft a bricklayer like Pippen, while MJ went 6/6 with Pippen's worst-ever efficiency and lane-clogging.. aka MJ can win with less

And of course we know that Pippen can't develop alongside a ball-dominator like Lebron

Yes. With the context that I provided.

[3ba11]

Yes. With the context that I provided.


And from 2009 onwards, Lebron wouldn't draft a bricklayer and lane-clogger like Pippen even if Pippen was a PG or PF

It's funny that Lebron received many guys that were far ahead of rookie Pippen like Hughes or Ingram or Westbrook and couldn't develop them or play with them like MJ did Pippen

[Full Court]

So you agreed from the beginning that Lebron wouldn't draft a bricklayer like Pippen, while MJ went 6/6 with Pippen's worst-ever efficiency and lane-clogging.. aka MJ can win with less

And of course we know that Pippen can't develop alongside a ball-dominator like Lebron - Lebron would have zero rings with Pippen and jump-ship to form another super-team, or simply put Pippen on the chopping block like Ingram or Westbrook or hughes


Yes. With the context that I provided.

We're all in agreement then. Like a big, happy family.

:kobe:

[plowking]

That would be crazy. Then LeBron could just focus on offense a hell of a lot more as he'd finally have a better perimeter defender than him on the team. He wouldn't have to take on being the main defender for the other teams best guy all the time.

[ShawkFactory]

We're all in agreement then. Like a big, happy family.

:kobe:

Read my first post.

[3ba11]

That would be crazy. Then LeBron could just focus on offense a hell of a lot more as he'd finally have a better perimeter defender than him on the team. He wouldn't have to take on being the main defender for the other teams best guy all the time.


When did Lebron win 40 games with a 7.9 ppg rookie? He needed an all-star to win 40 games in 2005, whereas MJ won 50 with a 7.9 ppg bench rookie in 1988.. He did this by playing better than Lebron ever did, aka 35/6/6/DPOY

[White Hammer]

I read the thread title as Pippen joining a 10 foot tall Lebron. Like duh of course if you got a 10' teammate, whoever he is, then Pippen ain't getting ANY shots. You give it to the giant every time :oldlol:

[Axe]

I read the thread title as Pippen joining a 10 foot tall Lebron. Like duh of course if you got a 10' teammate, whoever he is, then Pippen ain't getting ANY shots. You give it to the giant every time :oldlol:
:roll:

Dumb thread title is dumb.