Marcus Smart to Grizzlies, Porzingis to Celtics

[Full Court]

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/report-celtics-nearing-deal-for-kristaps-porzingis-in-3-way-trade-with-wizards-clippers-involving-malcolm-brogdon-204140411.html

I like this trade. I think both teams will be better. Could be a Grizzlies/Celtics finals next year.

[Wardell Curry]

I like this trade. I think both teams will be better. Could be a Grizzlies/Celtics finals next year.

:roll:

[Thorpesaurous]

Longtime Celtic fan ... like really long time.

I'm fascinated by this trade. It's going to be a culture shock in Boston, but I think it's a risk worth taking. Boston has lacked a third big really for the entirety of this run. And Porzingis puts one of their existing two bigs in a spot to be the third, which makes this a major upgrade. He also solves one of their biggest issues ... creating shots when jumpers aren't falling. He was a high end post scorer last year, and was way better attacking close outs than he ever has. In addition, he does that without altering the offensive identity, because he can fit into the 5 out, heavy three point shooting ethos the Celtics generally play in, as he shot 38% from deep last year, and his shot has long been his main weapon.

What makes the fit weird? Well it's easy to see the 1.5 blocks, and the opponent shooting percentages as the nearest defender, and other applicable stats, and call this a two way player which has seemed to be Boston's focus. But he played almost exclusively drop coverage against the PnR last year, and most years during his career. He's not comfortable switching. And the switchable defensive fronts are every bit the Boston identity on defense as the high volume three is on offense. His presence will demand a change in scheme. I'm not sure how unwelcome it will be for Mazzulla, as the scheme seemed to have been almost entirely ported over from Udoka. But either way it's not how they've played during these past two seasons. And it doesn't seem to jive with some of the core values of building around Tatum and Brown as both oversized active wing defenders who can switch onto almost any player. Overall I think the positives outweigh the negatives, and I like the fit.

Losing Smart? As I said, I'm a Celtic lifer. I've enjoyed the hell out of Smart. But the last few seasons when Brown and Tatum have stalled, I've often wondered if they defer a bit too much to Smart, who was just enough older, and just a much bigger persona, who commanded the locker room, and if they wouldn't benefit a bit with some addition by subtraction, just because those two would probably take over the team in a way they couldn't with a slightly older guy with similar draft stock. I also didn't think Smart was as good this year as last. He hits some huge shots. He's not afraid of anyone on either end of the court. But he wasn't nearly the defender he had been. In fact I didn't think he was as good last year during his DPOY season as he had been in years past. And offensively his improved shot was a great asset, but his decision making was frequently still not great, and I sort of preferred Derrick White's downhill offense, better pace, similar shooting, longer defense. Some of the other things Smart bought offensively, like a mismatch post game that could create shots when the shooting cratered, should be more than replaced by Porzingis. Brogdon also brings the most poise of the three. He was the likely answer to the implosion against the Warriors in that he can control pace better than the others. And he's got more shot creation skills than either of the other two. His health is a huge part of this trade. It's why the Clipper version fell apart, so it's important he can play at a high level next year. I also think Pritchard is a big piece here. He's probably better than the minutes he got in this stacked guard rotation. But he'll need to prove it this year. Better spot shooting than the others provide. Fiestier on defense than given credit for. But I don't know that he can survive defensively with major minutes in a playoff series. Smart will fit perfectly in Memphis. He's a cultural fit. He can play between Morant and Bane, and spell either at either spot. I'm not sure he's worth the other piece of this trade for them though ... the first rounder.

The picks? The first pick for Boston is essentially a swap. The move up 10 spots, from 35 to 25 in this draft. It is a jump from the 2nd round to the 1st, but it's not a huge gap in my opinion. I do think there are useful role player types in this draft at that range though. There is however a second first next year from Golden State, which could provide very useful cheap labor to a roster that seems pretty intent on paying 80 - 100 million to their two all league wings the next 4 - 5 years. Now you get money cleared from Smart's longer deal, and the advantage of not having to re-sign Grant Williams because you have a third big now, really allows Boston to make the offer to Brown, take at least a one year run with a different type of team, and I believe if they still have reservations about the Brown/Tatum pairing, I don't think the contract limits his tradeability. Being locked into a contract, even if people think it's too much money, will have value to smaller markets who might not be able to attract a guy like that through Free Agency.

Those are my Celtic centric thoughts.

[theman93]

If Porzingis can stay healthy this is a no-brainer for Boston. That's a big if though.

[Im Still Ballin]

Longtime Celtic fan ... like really long time.

I'm fascinated by this trade. It's going to be a culture shock in Boston, but I think it's a risk worth taking. Boston has lacked a third big really for the entirety of this run. And Porzingis puts one of their existing two bigs in a spot to be the third, which makes this a major upgrade. He also solves one of their biggest issues ... creating shots when jumpers aren't falling. He was a high end post scorer last year, and was way better attacking close outs than he ever has. In addition, he does that without altering the offensive identity, because he can fit into the 5 out, heavy three point shooting ethos the Celtics generally play in, as he shot 38% from deep last year, and his shot has long been his main weapon.

What makes the fit weird? Well it's easy to see the 1.5 blocks, and the opponent shooting percentages as the nearest defender, and other applicable stats, and call this a two way player which has seemed to be Boston's focus. But he played almost exclusively drop coverage against the PnR last year, and most years during his career. He's not comfortable switching. And the switchable defensive fronts are every bit the Boston identity on defense as the high volume three is on offense. His presence will demand a change in scheme. I'm not sure how unwelcome it will be for Mazzulla, as the scheme seemed to have been almost entirely ported over from Udoka. But either way it's not how they've played during these past two seasons. And it doesn't seem to jive with some of the core values of building around Tatum and Brown as both oversized active wing defenders who can switch onto almost any player. Overall I think the positives outweigh the negatives, and I like the fit.

Losing Smart? As I said, I'm a Celtic lifer. I've enjoyed the hell out of Smart. But the last few seasons when Brown and Tatum have stalled, I've often wondered if they defer a bit too much to Smart, who was just enough older, and just a much bigger persona, who commanded the locker room, and if they wouldn't benefit a bit with some addition by subtraction, just because those two would probably take over the team in a way they couldn't with a slightly older guy with similar draft stock. I also didn't think Smart was as good this year as last. He hits some huge shots. He's not afraid of anyone on either end of the court. But he wasn't nearly the defender he had been. In fact I didn't think he was as good last year during his DPOY season as he had been in years past. And offensively his improved shot was a great asset, but his decision making was frequently still not great, and I sort of preferred Derrick White's downhill offense, better pace, similar shooting, longer defense. Some of the other things Smart bought offensively, like a mismatch post game that could create shots when the shooting cratered, should be more than replaced by Porzingis. Brogdon also brings the most poise of the three. He was the likely answer to the implosion against the Warriors in that he can control pace better than the others. And he's got more shot creation skills than either of the other two. His health is a huge part of this trade. It's why the Clipper version fell apart, so it's important he can play at a high level next year. I also think Pritchard is a big piece here. He's probably better than the minutes he got in this stacked guard rotation. But he'll need to prove it this year. Better spot shooting than the others provide. Fiestier on defense than given credit for. But I don't know that he can survive defensively with major minutes in a playoff series. Smart will fit perfectly in Memphis. He's a cultural fit. He can play between Morant and Bane, and spell either at either spot. I'm not sure he's worth the other piece of this trade for them though ... the first rounder.

The picks? The first pick for Boston is essentially a swap. The move up 10 spots, from 35 to 25 in this draft. It is a jump from the 2nd round to the 1st, but it's not a huge gap in my opinion. I do think there are useful role player types in this draft at that range though. There is however a second first next year from Golden State, which could provide very useful cheap labor to a roster that seems pretty intent on paying 80 - 100 million to their two all league wings the next 4 - 5 years. Now you get money cleared from Smart's longer deal, and the advantage of not having to re-sign Grant Williams because you have a third big now, really allows Boston to make the offer to Brown, take at least a one year run with a different type of team, and I believe if they still have reservations about the Brown/Tatum pairing, I don't think the contract limits his tradeability. Being locked into a contract, even if people think it's too much money, will have value to smaller markets who might not be able to attract a guy like that through Free Agency.

Those are my Celtic centric thoughts.

Great post. You're absolutely bang on about your assessment of Porzingis.


Kristaps Porzingis stats from his career-best season:

Points Allowed Per Pick-and-Roll
1. Anthony Davis (0.91)
2. Steven Adams (0.92)
3. Giannis Antetokounmpo (0.92)
4. Kristaps Porzingis (0.93)
5. Walker Kessler (0.93)

One of the best drop P&R defenders in the NBA.

And on offense:

Top Post Scorers
1. Kristaps Porzingis (1.29)
2. Nikola Jokic (1.26)
3. Luka Doncic (1.15)
4. Joel Embiid (1.11)
5. Pascal Siakam (1.11)

Finally figured out how to score from the post. And from the perimeter attacking closeouts.

Points Per Closeout
1. Kawhi Leonard (1.32)
2. Brandon Ingram (1.26)
3. Luka Doncic (1.25)
4. Harrison Barnes (1.24)
5. Kristaps Porzingis (1.23)

These are all via @SecondSpectrum

So KP shoots 40% on spot up 3s, kills defenses when he attacks closes out, can now post up with efficiency, and he’s a good defender. Health will always be a concern but he just had his best season of his career. This could be his prime.

[Real Men Wear Green]

I'm in minor shock at losing Smart. I've always thought he's the type of player that will win a championship one day. Guess that will be happening somewhere else. For now.

Brad Stevens is ruthless in the way that a team executive should be. On paper this is a great move. They aren't exactly the same but Derrick White does enough of what Smart does to make one of them tradeable. The Celtics biggest struggle over the course of the regular season was not having enough bigs due to Williams' knee and Horford's age. Porzingis does come with soon m new injury concerns but if he can give the Celtics over 60 games and is healthy for the playoffs its a win.

The big loss for the Celtics is Smart as a leader. I am not sure who will fill that void but just looking at what the team needs in the floor this is a strong move. The Celtics do need some luck with the health of Brogdon Porzingis and Eilliams all breeding to be managed. But if every team is healthy there isn't a better team than Boston.

[Manny98]

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/report-celtics-nearing-deal-for-kristaps-porzingis-in-3-way-trade-with-wizards-clippers-involving-malcolm-brogdon-204140411.html

I like this trade. I think both teams will be better. Could be a Grizzlies/Celtics finals next year.

Celtics might get far if they let Porzigis shine as the number 1 option

But It will be the same story as every year with Tatum and Jaylen bricking away and turning the ball over 100 times down the stretch

Plus they lost the heart and soul of the team, they have no leader that can galvanize the troops. Good trade on paper but awful in practice

[Real Men Wear Green]

Celtics might get far if they let Porzigis shine as the number 1 option

But It will be the same story as every year with Tatum and Jaylen bricking away and turning the ball over 100 times down the stretch

Plus they lost the heart and soul of the team, they have no leader that can galvanize the troops. Good trade on paper but awful in practice

What team had done anything with Porzingis as the #1 option for you to be saying this? The Celtics have made the Conference Finals 4 times and the Finals once with Tatum and Brown as their two best players and they are 25 and 26. They have actually done extremely well so far and are both now entering their primes.

[coin24]

Porzingod is a massive upgrade over smart. However he’s more of a second option robin type, and so are brown and Tatum. It’s like they’re the second option squad, we saw it all playoffs, they lack a true leader.

[1987_Lakers]

Porzingod is a massive upgrade over smart. However he’s more of a second option robin type, and so are brown and Tatum. It’s like they’re the second option squad, we saw it all playoffs, they lack a true leader.

You can say they lack a true leader, but calling Tatum is 2nd option is moronic.

[Manny98]

What team had done anything with Porzingis as the #1 option for you to be saying this? The Celtics have made the Conference Finals 4 times and the Finals once with Tatum and Brown as their two best players and they are 25 and 26. They have actually done extremely well so far and are both now entering their primes.

We've seen Tatum break the turnover record and have one of the worst finals performances ever for a superstar

We've seen Jaylen wet the bed against Miami

Porzingiz is an unknown but I believe the Celtics have a higher ceiling with him as the guy if utilized properly

[Real Men Wear Green]

We've seen Tatum break the turnover record and have one of the worst finals performances ever for a superstar

We've seen Jaylen wet the bed against Miami

Porzingiz is an unknown but I believe the Celtics have a higher ceiling with him as the guy if utilized properly

We've also seen Tatum break the game 7 record for points scored. You consistently ignore the massive positive with Tatum. He averaged 30 points and Brown managed to average 27 with a teammate that averaged 30. I don't want to tear into Porzingis too bad because he's a Celtic now but only an idiot would think Porzingis has done anything to justify saying he should be the #1 option due to playoff performance. You can Google it if you feel like it but I am completely sure you can not remember a single Porzingis playoff game. Yet you post this when Tatum had been in the conference finals for over half of his career.

[Thorpesaurous]

The Celtics did just hire Charles Lee as their lead assistant coach. He came off of Mike Budenholzer's Bucks' bench. The Bucks run one of the leagues best drop rim coverage / athletic roamer defensive schemes in the league with Brook Lopez and Giannis. I wonder if the Celtics will try to install something similar with Porzingis and Bob Williams. There's really a lot of overlap on both ends of the floor between Lopez and Porzingis. Kristaps is sort of a better version of the same kind of player.

[Clifton]

I love Smart, but this Celtics team needed to trade him. He needs to be on a team where the best player is his equal in personality. Tatum and Brown, meanwhile, need there to be a leadership vacuum so they can step into it. If they don't have it in them, the Celtics will never win anyway. They needed to take the chance.

I like Smart on the Grizzlies, but I think they'll miss Tyus more than they realize. I don't see how you give a player like that away. Their roster is replete with high-upside young players, couldn't they have sent Washington someone else?

[tontoz]

KP doesn't have the skills or aggression to be a 1 but he is pretty effective in the high post. He doesn't hold the ball or dribble the air out of it. He tends to be pretty decisive and isn't selfish.

[90sgoat]

KP doesn't have the skills or aggression to be a 1 but he is pretty effective in the high post. He doesn't hold the ball or dribble the air out of it. He tends to be pretty decisive and isn't selfish.

Something that makes him a good fit in Celtics is that they don't drive a lot and they have no other post players. Zingis will have the post to himself.

[DMAVS41]

Like this move for everyone...assuming the Wizards actually have a plan with what to do with Tyus. Tyus is really good...way better than his stats indicate imo. He would help a contender in a huge way this coming season. I hope the Wizards turn him into a future asset...but they keep whiffing, imo, on taking back bad salary to get better value in these situations. I'd imagine many teams will be calling about Tyus this season.

I like Smart in Memphis. The Grizzlies probably didn't want to pay Tyus after next season as he'll get a pretty good sized contract. Smart is on a good contract locked in for 3 more years.

KP on Boston will be interesting. With White/Brogdon (assuming health)...they won't lose a ton when rotations are shortened in the playoffs without Smart...and they just added a great shooting big. In theory, Boston should be noticeably scarier in the playoffs with KP...and White/Brogdon just playing more minutes.

[90sgoat]

Porzingod is a massive upgrade over smart. However he’s more of a second option robin type, and so are brown and Tatum. It’s like they’re the second option squad, we saw it all playoffs, they lack a true leader.

Zingis is a sometimes-a-first-option to put in the words of Phil Jackson.

When Zingis is hot, you better get him the ball and get out the way (bish).

Zingis can be MVP level for a run of a couple of games, but he is very inconsistent, so you can't build a team around him for 82 games.

Celtics fans however, will be overjoyed those games where he blocks a shot spectacularly on defense, runs the floor, gets it back and hits a 3.

[Airupthere]

Something that makes him a good fit in Celtics is that they don't drive a lot and they have no other post players. Zingis will have the post to himself.

Doesn't solve low IQ offense

[Airupthere]

Do the Celtics keep Gallinari?

[elementally morale]

The Celtics usually won tough matchups when Smart played well. He is a player that has a strong willpower and was a boost when needed. While Porzingis is a better player, the Celtics lost an enforcer I think. Porzingis is nowhere near as mentally tough. We shall see how this works out but the teams Porzingis was on usually underachieved.

[90sgoat]

Doesn't solve low IQ offense

Correct, Zingis is also low IQ offense and predictable, but now they have more ways to be low iq.

[FultzNationRISE]

The Celtics usually won tough matchups when Smart played well. He is a player that has a strong willpower and was a boost when needed. While Porzingis is a better player, the Celtics lost an enforcer I think. Porzingis is nowhere near as mentally tough. We shall see how this works out but the teams Porzingis was on usually underachieved.

I agree with this part but I dont think it’s correct to say KP’s teams underachieved. The Knicks and Wiz rosters were terrible while he was there, they were not supposed to achieve. The Mavs lost in the playoffs twice in hard fought fashion to a Clippers team that was supposed to beat them.

His teams did what they were expected to do, and it was really last year where he finally came into his own anyway. The Wiz werent even a BAD team, considering the time Beal missed and the ragtag roster, they did ok. It was just a very deep league last year. A team starting Derozan, Lavine, and Vucevic was a 10 seed. So the Wiz were never gonna be contenders. But last year he seemed to finally figure himself out as a player, and it looked pretty good.

[90sgoat]

The Celtics usually won tough matchups when Smart played well. He is a player that has a strong willpower and was a boost when needed. While Porzingis is a better player, the Celtics lost an enforcer I think. Porzingis is nowhere near as mentally tough. We shall see how this works out but the teams Porzingis was on usually underachieved.

This is different, Zingis didn't underachieve with Mavs, in fact Mavs played the best they ever did with him.

I think on Celtics he is in a good spot, because he will clearly not be the first option, but will fight it out with Green for the second option.

Zingis is also not a bitch, he is probably a top 5 rim protector and can guard out to the 3 point line, he just sucks at rebounding and setting screens.

[Im Still Ballin]

I hope Boston goes to the next level and they win 60+ games. It'd be cool to see KP get recognition for the player he is now.

[Kblaze8855]

https://www.hostpic.org/images/2306222057240355.jpeg

[FultzNationRISE]

https://www.hostpic.org/images/2306222057240355.jpeg


Yeah complaining in general has become a plague in this league, the NBA needs to find a way to address it.

[Wally450]

I'm in minor shock at losing Smart. I've always thought he's the type of player that will win a championship one day. Guess that will be happening somewhere else. For now.

Brad Stevens is ruthless in the way that a team executive should be. On paper this is a great move. They aren't exactly the same but Derrick White does enough of what Smart does to make one of them tradeable. The Celtics biggest struggle over the course of the regular season was not having enough bigs due to Williams' knee and Horford's age. Porzingis does come with soon m new injury concerns but if he can give the Celtics over 60 games and is healthy for the playoffs its a win.

The big loss for the Celtics is Smart as a leader. I am not sure who will fill that void but just looking at what the team needs in the floor this is a strong move. The Celtics do need some luck with the health of Brogdon Porzingis and Eilliams all breeding to be managed. But if every team is healthy there isn't a better team than Boston.

I agree with this. Hell, 60-65 games is about what most players play today with load management. I'm sure he'll miss games and be load managed himself, so if he's able to play anywhere from 50-60 games and be healthy enough for the postseason, that's a win.

Losing Smart will hurt at times, especially when the offense goes stagnant. He was able come in and either generate offense himself, or run an actual play that would generate points. Plus his defense and other intangibles can't be matched imo.

Brad Stevens is ruthless as you said, but I still don't think he's done yet. There's still more to come, and that's what I like.

[Kblaze8855]

Yeah complaining in general has become a plague in this league, the NBA needs to find a way to address it.


First few years of the league it was a technical foul if you or a teammate didn’t physically raise a hand to acknowledge they were responsible for a foul. It was just to promote sportsmanship and prevent complainers. That practice is where you get players trying to raise a hand to take a foul instead of the star who was near the play. You use to be able to literally take responsibility and the refs might allow it if it was close.

I think it went away during the time Bob Cousy was president of the union and chipping away at league authority for the first time.

Players and fans would both go crazy if you tried that now.

[ArbitraryWater]

Yeah complaining in general has become a plague in this league, the NBA needs to find a way to address it.

hell no, that would further restrict freedom and have the players need to operate like robots, where everything said will be punished as the refs can make bad call after bad call.

[elementally morale]

I agree with this part but I dont think it’s correct to say KP’s teams underachieved. The Knicks and Wiz rosters were terrible while he was there, they were not supposed to achieve. The Mavs lost in the playoffs twice in hard fought fashion to a Clippers team that was supposed to beat them.

His teams did what they were expected to do, and it was really last year where he finally came into his own anyway. The Wiz werent even a BAD team, considering the time Beal missed and the ragtag roster, they did ok. It was just a very deep league last year. A team starting Derozan, Lavine, and Vucevic was a 10 seed. So the Wiz were never gonna be contenders. But last year he seemed to finally figure himself out as a player, and it looked pretty good.

I don't really want to defend my opinion because I didn't watch the Wizards that much. My memories are from the Dallas days so I can easily be wrong.

[AirBonner]

I'm in minor shock at losing Smart. I've always thought he's the type of player that will win a championship one day. Guess that will be happening somewhere else. For now.

Brad Stevens is ruthless in the way that a team executive should be. On paper this is a great move. They aren't exactly the same but Derrick White does enough of what Smart does to make one of them tradeable. The Celtics biggest struggle over the course of the regular season was not having enough bigs due to Williams' knee and Horford's age. Porzingis does come with soon m new injury concerns but if he can give the Celtics over 60 games and is healthy for the playoffs its a win.

The big loss for the Celtics is Smart as a leader. I am not sure who will fill that void but just looking at what the team needs in the floor this is a strong move. The Celtics do need some luck with the health of Brogdon Porzingis and Eilliams all breeding to be managed. But if every team is healthy there isn't a better team than Boston.
Smart is a fan favorite because he gives effort. However his results are always underwhelming. And his leadership is questionable, guy was a traffic cone on defense all last season

[Wardell Curry]

I like this trade. I think both teams will be better. Could be a Grizzlies/Celtics finals next year.

Looking like quite a solid prediction. The Grizzlies are well on their way. Just need to get Ja back and everyone healthy and they will be a 60 win team.

[Axe]

Looking like quite a solid prediction. The Grizzlies are well on their way. Just need to get Ja back and everyone healthy and they will be a 60 win team.
Quite possible for the Cs, as long as...


Grant Williams will step up as the team flopper.

:roll: