We missed the real Chris Webber [2005 ESPN Article]

[Im Still Ballin]

Came across this ESPN article from 2005.

Was this the general vibe/consensus regarding Chris Webber? Did he not reach his true potential because he was more concerned with being versatile, cool, and different? Just how great could he have been if he embraced the traditional big-man role more? I know he had beef with Don Nelson about this.


We missed the real Chris Webber

By Jason Whitlock

Chris Webber's basketball career is a lesson in why it's important to be yourself. The basketball world has never seen the real Chris Webber, at least not for very long.

We've been treated to C-Webb, the 6-foot-10, 240-pound marvel who has more in common on the court with Magic Johnson than Karl Malone, and more in common off the court with Allen Iverson than Grant Hill. That's a shame.

Because Chris Webber is better than C-Webb.

Chris Webber had the potential to become the best power forward the game has ever seen. He could've been as reliable in the low post as Kevin McHale, as consistent and relentless as The Mailman, as immovable as Wes Unseld. He could've been a terrific last line of defense.

Instead, C-Webb focused on redefining the position. C-Webb wanted to do a little bit of everything -- shoot the 3, lead the break, dish the ball behind his back and avoid the daily bump and grind of typical low-post play.

C-Webb is no flop. In 12 seasons, he's averaged 22 points, 10 rebounds and 4.5 assists. When he's been healthy, he's been an NBA All-Star. In 2000-01, he made a strong run at league MVP. But he's never reached his potential. He's bounced around to four different franchises. Sacramento, the city C-Webb put on the NBA map, recently decided it had a better chance to contend without C-Webb, and dealt him to the Philadelphia 76ers. Webber lost a power struggle with Peja Stojakovic, a one-dimensional shooter.

The knock on C-Webb is that he doesn't make his teammates better, despite his versatility. Sacramento's offense seemed to run more efficiently when C-Webb was in street clothes.

That would've never been said about Chris Webber. On draft night in 1993, shortly after Orlando made him the No. 1 overall pick, Golden State's Don Nelson acquired Webber from the Magic in the hope of turning him into an in-the-paint beast capable of causing Shaquille O'Neal a few problems. The thought of battling Shaq caused Webber to go on a hunger strike and shed 25 pounds. He shrank to C-Webb size and started working on his perimeter game.

Soon after that, C-Webb started working on a rap sheet and a rap album. Chris Webber disappeared. Now we only hear from him when ESPN does a package on Webber's love of art or African artifacts.

Chris Webber was never comfortable being Chris Webber. I could see it when he was a member of Michigan's Fab Five. I covered those teams for the Ann Arbor News. Webber wanted desperately then to be Jalen Rose, a player with half of Webber's potential and polish. Webber loved the fact that Rose was from Detroit's mean streets. Webber's parents, a factory worker and a school teacher, had placed him in a pricey, predominantly-white private high school.

Webber rebelled by idolizing Rose. It was as if Webber was embarrassed that he'd come from a solid two-parent home. Rose was never a bad guy. He was just "city" and cool. It was odd that Michigan's best player, the player with the most intellect, deferred to Rose's overpowering personality. Rose defined the Fab Five. His game was undisciplined, and so were the Wolverines. They achieved remarkable feats, but never won an NCAA title or even a Big Ten championship. In retrospect, particularly given the subsequent NCAA investigation into the Wolverines' program, they were the epitome of style over substance.

Webber's upbringing was all about substance. His mother made him read books and take quiet time just to reflect. If you spend any time at all around Webber away from the basketball court, you'll discover a man knowledgeable and passionate about a wide variety of issues. You'll also discover a man completely conflicted.

That's one of the reasons Webber was busted carrying marijuana. That's one of the reasons he was involved in a rape allegation. That's one of the reasons he was the front man for DaDa sportswear. That's one of the reasons he tried to become a rapper.

And that's one of the reasons he won't leave much of an NBA legacy.

We will forget about Chris Webber shortly. Injuries have eroded his ability to explode to the basket. He never developed a low-post game, so he's an inconsistent scoring threat in the clutch. He's a bunch of numbers and a great quote.

He isn't going to help the Sixers win it all this year, even though Philadelphia has paired him with Allen Iverson. Iverson will lead C-Webb straight to hell, and C-Webb will be more than happy to follow.

We all know people just like Chris Webber -- people uncomfortable with who they are, people who follow rather than lead, people who look for material things to define them, people who find momentary confidence in their association with others.

We're just shocked when we find those insecurities in people we view as possessing every gift that God has to offer.

[Xiao Yao You]

he was too unselfish. That was his biggest weakness

[Im Still Ballin]

His numbers look pretty great from '94 to '03.

- 22.2 ppg, 10.2 rpg, 4.4 apg, 1.5 spg, 1.7 bpg, 3.0 topg
- 49.4% FG, 50.4% eFG, 62.5% FT, 52.6% TS (+0.0 rTS)

Ten seasons - an entire decade. His free-throw shooting hurt his TS%; he was an efficient scorer and passer it appears. I'm impressed by his assists relative to his scoring volume and turnovers. His shot chart has some nice diversity to it. Maybe too many jump shots?

[3ba11]

Came across this ESPN article from 2005.

Was this the general vibe/consensus regarding Chris Webber? Did he not reach his true potential because he was more concerned with being versatile, cool, and different? Just how great could he have been if he embraced the traditional big-man role more? I know he had beef with Don Nelson about this.


Webber just wasn't quite as good as expected - he was expected to a GOAT-level PF and fell short by distinct margin

I disagree that he had everything and simply underachieved - the only move he had was the jump-hook.. He was a great physical specimen but his power and jumper falls short of say, Malone

[SouBeachTalents]

The crazy thing is if the refs don't hand Game 6 to the Lakers, or hell, if Horry isn't in the perfect place at the right time, Webber's legacy is COMPLETELY different. He leads the Kings to a title while knocking off Shaq/Kobe to boot and he's a lock for the 75th team, and would probably even be in top 50 consideration for some fans/analysts.

Instead, Horry's shot goes in and now he's a historical afterthought, most known for costing his team the championship by calling a timeout.

[MavAlbert]

Came across this ESPN article from 2005.

Was this the general vibe/consensus regarding Chris Webber? Did he not reach his true potential because he was more concerned with being versatile, cool, and different? Just how great could he have been if he embraced the traditional big-man role more? I know he had beef with Don Nelson about this.


whitlock is a clown

[Im Still Ballin]

The crazy thing is if the refs don't hand Game 6 to the Lakers, or hell, if Horry isn't in the perfect place at the right time, Webber's legacy is COMPLETELY different. He leads the Kings to a title while knocking off Shaq/Kobe to boot and he's a lock for the 75th team, and would probably even be in top 50 consideration for some fans/analysts.

Instead, Horry's shot goes in and now he's a historical afterthought, most known for costing his team the championship by calling a timeout.

Facts. That '02 run looks good on the stat sheet too:

- 16 games played
- 23.7 ppg, 10.8 rpg, 4.7 apg, 0.9 spg, 1.6 bpg, 2.9 topg
- 50.2% FG (+5.7% rFG), 50.8% 2PT (+4.3% r2PT), 59.6% FT (-15.6% rFT), 52.3% TS (+0.3 rTS)

Only the free-throw shooting stands out as an issue. His true shooting percentage would shoot up to 54.5% TS (+2.5% rTS) if he shot league average from the stripe (75.2% FT). He did 74.9% FT in the regular season so he just was off for whatever reason.

It's crazy to think that +2.5% rTS today is 60.6% TS. Nuts.

[SATAN]

By Jason Whitlock

Stopped reading there.

[L.Kizzle]

Webber is a borderline upper echelon power forward. He had all the tools to be in the top tier he just fell short. He's better than guys like Dennis Rodman, Pau Gasol and Chris Bosh who won titles close to his era

[ArbitraryWater]

whitlock is a clown

Youre a clown, tbh

[Im Still Ballin]

Webber is a borderline upper echelon power forward. He had all the tools to be in the top tier he just fell short. He's better than guys like Dennis Rodman, Pau Gasol and Chris Bosh who won titles close to his era

Appreciate the input.

[BigShotBob]

Everything he said was right. Chris Webber was very talented and an innovator at his position and he clearly worked hard but he never expanded his game to play under the rim as well as he should have. Karl Malone and even Shawn Kemp managed to do it. He shouldn't have phased out due to injuries as quickly as he did.

[JBSptfn]

The crazy thing is if the refs don't hand Game 6 to the Lakers, or hell, if Horry isn't in the perfect place at the right time, Webber's legacy is COMPLETELY different. He leads the Kings to a title while knocking off Shaq/Kobe to boot and he's a lock for the 75th team, and would probably even be in top 50 consideration for some fans/analysts.

Instead, Horry's shot goes in and now he's a historical afterthought, most known for costing his team the championship by calling a timeout.

Exactly (or, if the freaking refs call a foul in game 6 when Bibby is elbowed in the freaking face). If they win in 02, and he doesn't have that injury in 03, maybe they make three straight Finals (and win in 02 and 03, at least), and we are looking at Webber in a different light (especially if he gets a Finals MVP).

[90sgoat]

This article is racist!

That aside, then Whitlock writes a great piece here, which is as much a commentary on black America as on Chris Webber, which I think is deliberate and what Whitlock is all about anyway.

Style over substance, the glorification of the streets, being fake by trying to be real, the softening of the american (black) man, mistaking being loud with being strong.

Great piece by Whitlock. Sad to say, we are all Chris Webber today, men of comfort, who try to find some authenticity.

[Im Still Ballin]

This article is racist!

That aside, then Whitlock writes a great piece here, which is as much a commentary on black America as on Chris Webber, which I think is deliberate and what Whitlock is all about anyway.

Style over substance, the glorification of the streets, being fake by trying to be real, the softening of the american (black) man, mistaking being loud with being strong.

Great piece by Whitlock. Sad to say, we are all Chris Webber today, men of comfort, who try to find some authenticity.

Thanks for the response.

[MrFonzworth]

This article is racist!

That aside, then Whitlock writes a great piece here, which is as much a commentary on black America as on Chris Webber, which I think is deliberate and what Whitlock is all about anyway.

Style over substance, the glorification of the streets, being fake by trying to be real, the softening of the american (black) man, mistaking being loud with being strong.

Great piece by Whitlock. Sad to say, we are all Chris Webber today, men of comfort, who try to find some authenticity.

:lol

[90sgoat]

:lol

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/84/fc/72/84fc72323ecd793a2b3fe0c2f42f23e9.gif

[John8204]

Much like John Stockton Reggie Miller and Grant Hill he played in the wrong era. He would have won an MVP if we used modern metrics with him

[90sgoat]

Much like John Stockton Reggie Miller and Grant Hill he played in the wrong era. He would have won an MVP if we used modern metrics with him

Well, to us basketball experts he was already plenty good and no, Sac-town were not better without him. He was the key piece to their offense and the focal point of one of the most entertaining offenses ever.

He would definitely flourish today as he was basically Jokic.

[Xiao Yao You]

Much like John Stockton Reggie Miller and Grant Hill he played in the wrong era. He would have won an MVP if we used modern metrics with him

a pass first pg playing in an era of pass first pg's was in the wrong era? :facepalm

[90sgoat]

a pass first pg playing in an era of pass first pg's was in the wrong era? :facepalm

A half court pass first, defensive minded, point guard no less :lol

[dankok8]

Could have been the greatest PF ever is a huge exaggeration. Webber's best attribute was his passing but he wasn't an A level scorer far from it and had average defensive instincts. He couldn't match Tim Duncan on either end of the floor.

[John8204]

a pass first pg playing in an era of pass first pg's was in the wrong era? :facepalm

Who were the pass first PG's of his era?

Payton - Defense
Price - Scoring
Isiah - Scoring
Penny -Scoring
Magic - Pass first...but then he was the main Scoring Option
Mark Jackson - Passing
K. Johnson - maybe
T. Hardaway - maybe
Harper - no
Smith - yes

[WhiteKyrie]

This article is racist!

That aside, then Whitlock writes a great piece here, which is as much a commentary on black America as on Chris Webber, which I think is deliberate and what Whitlock is all about anyway.

Style over substance, the glorification of the streets, being fake by trying to be real, the softening of the american (black) man, mistaking being loud with being strong.

Great piece by Whitlock. Sad to say, we are all Chris Webber today, men of comfort, who try to find some authenticity.

More like accurate

[Clifton]

He didn't have elite instincts for either defense or getting buckets. Good but not elite. He had an infinite toolbag, but he was an 8/10 on everything but a 10/10 at nothing. What would KG be without KG's mindset and KG's defense? A good player but not one you remember. That was Webber.

You could say "if 2 things had gone differently they're champions in 02." Yes, same goes for the Blazers in 2000. Same goes for a lot of teams. I am firmly of belief that for the most part, the ball don't lie and that history tells us what these guys were. If he were a winner, we'd have seen him get an opportunity to show it-- not win a ring, mind you, but show it, the way Reggie Miller showed it.

[Xiao Yao You]

A half court pass first, defensive minded, point guard no less :lol

he was actually at his best running the break. See '88 playoff run when they were out running the Showtime Lakers

[Xiao Yao You]

Who were the pass first PG's of his era?

Payton - Defense
Price - Scoring
Isiah - Scoring
Penny -Scoring
Magic - Pass first...but then he was the main Scoring Option
Mark Jackson - Passing
K. Johnson - maybe
T. Hardaway - maybe
Harper - no
Smith - yes

When Stockton came into the league pretty much everyone was a pass first pg. Isiah was the prototype for what was to come and he averaged 14 assists a game Stockton's rookie year. Payton was a scorer that averaged as much as 9 assists a game. Price averaged 20 pts a game once and as much as 10 assists a game. Don't really know what Penny was since he peaked in year 3. Averaged 20 pts twice but still put up over 7 assists a game. Magic could certainly score but was pass first without a doubt. KJ as much as 12 assists a game. Tim Hardaway 10 assists 3 times. Harper wasn't really a pg. He brought the ball up sometimes and might have guarded the 1 depending. Pippen was the pg and he was certainly pass first since he was a streaky shooter at best and not a great half court player. Steve Smith the shooting guard?

Stockton would have been great in any era but he was who he was because of when he played and grew up. I was a pass first pg. Magic and than Stockton were who I looked up to. I can't imagine having the mind set of Jordan Clarkson or even Iverson!

[Xiao Yao You]

https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_1985_per_game.html

assist leaders from Stockton's rookie year when Stockton was 3rd per 48 minutes in assists coming off the bench. 3 pg's averaged 20 a game but all had at least 8 assists a game.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2003_per_game.html

Stockton's last year 3 pg's averaged 20 points a game. Kidd shot too much but was definitely a pass first. He and Marbury over 8 assists a game. Would appear by this time assists were coming from a wider range of players instead of mainly the pg

[90sgoat]

I don't think it's fair to call Price a scoring point guard, he was definitely also a classic floor general.

[John8204]

I don't think it's fair to call Price a scoring point guard, he was definitely also a classic floor general.

If you lead team in scoring you are scoring PG, Price did it twice, and was second option on several seasons. Stockton was consistently a 3rd or 4th option with the 1 and 2 options hitting 20PPG.


When Stockton came into the league pretty much everyone was a pass first pg. Isiah was the prototype for what was to come and he averaged 14 assists a game Stockton's rookie year. Payton was a scorer that averaged as much as 9 assists a game. Price averaged 20 pts a game once and as much as 10 assists a game. Don't really know what Penny was since he peaked in year 3. Averaged 20 pts twice but still put up over 7 assists a game. Magic could certainly score but was pass first without a doubt. KJ as much as 12 assists a game. Tim Hardaway 10 assists 3 times. Harper wasn't really a pg. He brought the ball up sometimes and might have guarded the 1 depending. Pippen was the pg and he was certainly pass first since he was a streaky shooter at best and not a great half court player. Steve Smith the shooting guard?

Stockton would have been great in any era but he was who he was because of when he played and grew up. I was a pass first pg. Magic and than Stockton were who I looked up to. I can't imagine having the mind set of Jordan Clarkson or even Iverson!


Isiah Thomas was the playmaker on his team when they needed athletic spurts Isiah was the guy they called. Most of those guys on the team took secondary roles. He was also a turnover machine....he had a lot of asissts but he also scored, rebounded and turned the ball over. For me I would say Isiah was more of an athletic PG like Westbrook.

Gary Payton once again wouldn't call him a pass first PG, to me he was the prototypical defensive PG. For a large chunk of his career he only averaged 6 assists per game with his backup McMilan averaging 5.

Penny was a 2 option until he got hurt...similar to Isiah but not to the field with the Mark Jacksons, Stocktons, and Kenny Smith.

Magic you could say he was a pass first guy for the first half of his career...but his MVP seasons he was the 1 option on the Lakers

[WhiteKyrie]

I don't think it's fair to call Price a scoring point guard, he was definitely also a classic floor general.

What’s funny is he actually was a quicker version of Steve Nash. That wasn’t reliant on a fast pace offensive system to put up those numbers. I’m not even comparing them because of their skin color, they played alike.

[90sgoat]

What’s funny is he actually was a quicker version of Steve Nash. That wasn’t reliant on a fast pace offensive system to put up those numbers. I’m not even comparing them because of their skin color, they played alike.

More Chris Paul than Steve Nash.

Steve Nash was very ball dominant and selfish. That's not how I remember Price, but I could be wrong.

[bison]

Man who cares if Webber was a fake thug? The NBA was full of fake thugs during that era. But the player we got in Chris Webber is who he is. He wouldn't have been better trying to play more of a post game. And sometimes I cant believe how overrated this guy is. He could create his own shots, but thats about it. Subpar defender and bad court vision and occasionally would use flashy plays on the court to cover up his other weaknesses. Very unclutch and cracked under pressure. The best career chris webber could have possibly had was as a sidekick/role player. Put him on iverson's 2001 76ers team and lakers might not win the chip that year.

[tpols]

More Chris Paul than Steve Nash.

Steve Nash was very ball dominant and selfish. That's not how I remember Price, but I could be wrong.

Steve Nash led historic #1 ranked offenses over and over so he was doing something right.

And Stern robbed him of a title in 2007 just like he robbed Webber in 2002. They both should have rings.

[tpols]

Man who cares if Webber was a fake thug? The NBA was full of fake thugs during that era. But the player we got in Chris Webber is who he is. He wouldn't have been better trying to play more of a post game. And sometimes I cant believe how overrated this guy is. He could create his own shots, but thats about it. Subpar defender and bad court vision and occasionally would use flashy plays on the court to cover up his other weaknesses. Very unclutch and cracked under pressure. The best career chris webber could have possibly had was as a sidekick/role player. Put him on iverson's 2001 76ers team and lakers might not win the chip that year.

He was a few atrocious calls and a rig away from being champion as clear cut best player. Kings would've smoked the Nets in the Finals. They were super legit.

[bizil]

C-Webb's package of scoring, passing, and rebounding as a package is STILL among the top 5 PF's of all time. He's in their with guys like Chuck, Giannis, and KG for that. Plus his athletic ability and brute force as a package was elite as well. The THING IS Webb's prime was in the heart of the Golden Age of PF's. Where u had a 7'0 PF like Timmy. Who had the interior two way dominance of the all time elite centers. YET had many of the elements of the new age PF's popping. That was a LETHAL combination. You had KG who was the first POSITIONLESS two way 7 footer in league history.

Young KG was employed like that in Minny. LEGIT played SF, PF, and C. Played in a point forward capacity often. Defensively, LEGIT defended SG, SF, PF, and C. And I'm not TALKING on a switch for a SG or SF. I'm talking that was his DEFENSIVE MATCHUP at times.

Then you have Dirk who is the GOLD STANDARD stretch PF. Dirk put his stamp on that. He was such a great scorer and matchup nightmare it SUPERCEDED his weaker areas like defense, freak athletic ability, power forward brute force.

So while Webb did indeed revolutionize the PF spot (we really didn't see a player that size before him doing the things he did at the 4 spot, maybe DC to an extent), you had Timmy, KG, and Dirk come down the pike. And ALL THREE revolutionized the PF spot too in their own way. SO MUCH SO 7 footers didn't want to play center anymore! LMAO! And Webb was in that 6'9-6'10 range. So when u have a freak athletic positionless 7 foot phenom like KG come down the pike who could do SIMILAR THINGS AND DO THINGS Webb couldn't to defensively, it made Webb feel less special.

Webb WAS STILL a great player. Peak-prime wise, a top 10 PF of all time in my book. But injuries and being in the Golden Age of PF's are the reason why he didn't reach his level of greatness projected. Timmy, KG, and Dirk are among the top 5-6 GOAT PF's of all time. Frankly I think Webb catches TOO MUCH HEAT! Being the 4th best PF in the GOLDEN AGE of PF's ain't a bad spot to be in!

[bizil]

VIRTUALLY all the top point guards in back in the day were PASS FIRST PG's! Some of them were great scorers on top of it though. Guys like Oscar, Magic, Isiah, Payton, Tiny, etc. ANYBODY who thinks Isiah Thomas was score first PG doesn't know the game! He a prototype pass first PG. Who ALSO had alpha dog scoring cred for DAMN SURE! He would score 21 PPG WHILE looking to be the ultimate floor general. His scoring CAME DOWN during the title runs BECAUSE he had more capable help around him. AND an all time great defense around him as well. To ENSURE championship success, slow the game down, spread the ball around and rely on the defense as a huge weapon.

Back in the day, they put players at the PG as their primary position BASED ON THEIR MINDSET! Where they preferred a pass first guy. U had guys like Pistol Pete, Earl the Pearl, etc. who would and could swing to the PG at times. But they were score first players at heart. And better off at the SG. In today's game, it's MORE ABOUT who can put the most pressure on a defense offensively. And if you have ENOUGH handles and floor generalship to run the sets and get teams in their offense, then they are PERFECTLY FINE with a score first PG. And the rules changes enhance that even more.

[bizil]

I don't think it's fair to call Price a scoring point guard, he was definitely also a classic floor general.

Price was ABSOLUTELY a classic floor general! You could watch him play at see that! BUT he was also ahead of his time as well. He was the 1st PG to combine the three point shooting, handles, and passing at a great level. I think since he was one of the next faces of three point shooting after Bird, people seem to think he was a score first PG. Like I've said before, virtually ALL of the great PG's back in the day were pass first players. Some of them just happened to be elite scorers on top of it.

[90sgoat]

Price was ABSOLUTELY a classic floor general! You could watch him play at see that! BUT he was also ahead of his time as well. He was the 1st PG to combine the three point shooting, handles, and passing at a great level. I think since he was one of the next faces of three point shooting after Bird, people seem to think he was a score first PG. Like I've said before, virtually ALL of the great PG's back in the day were pass first players. Some of them just happened to be elite scorers on top of it.

That's true.

If I think of a score first point guard in the 90s, maybe someone like Dana Barros or Mahmoud Abdul Rauf and of course Allen Iverson.