Is T-Mac a point forward?

[tmacyaokobe01]

and please explain your answer.

To Me he isn't a point forward.

[brantonli]

Not you again...........



Yes he is.

[Richie2k6]

Man are you like demented or something? You don't know how to accept facts. People have been proving you wrong for pages and pages and pages and pages in your other topic. Hell, they're been proving you wrong on another basketball board all together. People keep telling you he is and giving massive posts full of reason with facts and legitimate things, yet you still deny everything and follow your own opinion with no respect for what anybody else says.

Please, grow up a little. He IS a point forward.

[tmacyaokobe01]

what facts?

the invalid facts they gave me?

richie i think your just being bitter and its okay its part of how things go.

[Skywalker]

lmaoooo this poster is RETARDED

[cks9505]

what part of t-mac's game is point? If he's a point forward, that has to make every player over 6'7" with handles a point forward.

[tmacyaokobe01]

what part of t-mac's game is point? If he's a point forward, that has to make every player over 6'7" with handles a point forward.
great point.

[brantonli]

what part of t-mac's game is point? If he's a point forward, that has to make every player over 6'7" with handles a point forward.


*kicks bucket* He averages 6 assists and handles the ball every single possession for the Rockets.

[tmacyaokobe01]

*kicks bucket* He averages 6 assists and handles the ball every single possession for the Rockets.
correction

he handles it when there on the halfcourt.

Therefor hes not the primary ball-handler.

those 6 assists means garbage of being a point forward.

[Sharas]

many starting point guards don't average that much.

and yes, being a primary ballhandler on a team does make him a point forward.

[haji_d_robertas]

Can you name 5 players who you consider to be point forwards?

[brantonli]

correction

he handles it when there on the halfcourt.

Therefor hes not the primary ball-handler.

those 6 assists means garbage of being a point forward.


It's always halfcourt (until next season) when it comes to the Rockets, and I know that one many plays when Alston and McGrady play together, Alston always looks for McGrady before either passing the ball to him or bringing the ball up the court and then pass it to him. Sometimes McGrady brings the ball up as well, but that's Rafer's job.

[tmacyaokobe01]

Can you name 5 players who you consider to be point forwards?
Pippen, Grant Hill, LeBron, Paul Pressey, Penny Hardaway

[tmacyaokobe01]

It's always halfcourt (until next season) when it comes to the Rockets, and I know that one many plays when Alston and McGrady play together, Alston always looks for McGrady before either passing the ball to him or bringing the ball up the court and then pass it to him. Sometimes McGrady brings the ball up as well, but that's Rafer's job.
McGrady brings up the ball in the 4th quarter, because its a strategy that all teams use with there superstar.

Because, Melo, Pierce, Ray Allen, Kobe, LeBron all do it as well.

And if T-Mac is a point forward they all would be too.

[brantonli]

correction

he handles it when there on the halfcourt.

Therefor hes not the primary ball-handler.

those 6 assists means garbage of being a point forward.


Also, T-mac is 12th last season in averaging assists, and how many players over 6'6 were above him?

0.

Nash
Williams
Kidd
Paul
Davis
Ford
Miller
Billups
Felton
Tinsley
McGrady.

[tmacyaokobe01]

Also, T-mac is 12th last season in averaging assists, and how many players over 6'6 were above him?

0.

Nash
Williams
Kidd
Paul
Davis
Ford
Miller
Billups
Felton
Tinsley
McGrady.
If you call McGrady a point forward because of his assists then Call M.J one.

He had lots of 6+ apg seasons and would you consider Iggy a point forward?

[Richie2k6]

Why do you keep insisting I've stated opinions? What opinion have I given? I've given nothing but facts. You want to know why McGrady is a point forward? I'll tell you.

A point forward is a forward who has point guard characteristics and traits that allow him to run an offense LIKE a point guard. You do not have to bring the ball up the damn court to be a point forward. And to your Lamar Odom statement, sorry, you're wrong. You said be brings the ball up the court a lot? No, he doesn't. That's not how the triangle offense works. Do you even know the slightest thing about the Lakers' offensive gameplan, kid? The triangle offense consists of a guard bringing the ball up the court, performing a lag pass to another player, then the offensive can initiate from then on. That's one of the ways it works. A GUARD brings it up the court, a.k.a not Lamar Odom. Lamar Odom is a forward. A point forward to be exact. How come? Because he is a forward with point guard characteristics. He can run an offense, is a good passer, is a playmaker and is a ball handler. It's pretty clear that you need to study the triangle offense and go learn something about it, because your foolish thoeries are far from correct.

And to your comment about the point forward having to be the primary ball handler, that's a load of bull, quite frankly. Primary ball handler? Here's a shot at your foolish Boris Diaw comment. You claim all point forwards are primary ball handlers - Boris Diaw is clearly NOT the primary ball handler. Go ask a 3 year old baby on the street and even he'll tell you that it's clearly undoubtably obvious that Steve Nash handles the rock more than any other Phoenix Sun by a mile. You say point forwards have to be primary ball handlers, but Boris Diaw isn't.

And what's all this about "point guard handles"? You say McGrady has shooting guard handles? What is "shooting guard handles"? You have a picture of McGrady in your avatar, but you don't know anything about his game. McGrady is an excellent ball handler who hardly turns it over. He handles the ball probably more than Rafer Alston, thus making him the primary ball handler in your eyes. He doesn't turn it over much, and he's shown his ball-handling capabilities on the Magic and on the Rockets. he even played all 5 positions in high school, only furthering the fact that he has experience running and offense. Funny how you say you've been stating facts, when you haven't. You've been stating what you THINK are facts, but are really stuff you don't know anything about.

You said Andrei Kirilenko brought the ball up the court sometimes for the Jazz in the playoffs. But you said a point forward has to be the primary ball handler, which he isn't. It's obvious Deron Williams. Since you claim you need to be the primary ball handler to be a point forward, but AK isn't, how come he's a point forward to you? Got your "facts" all messed up now, huh? A point forward does NOT have to bring the ball up the court and does NOT need to be the primary ball handler.

You said Lebron James brings the ball up the court a lot for the Cavaliers. It's pretty obvious that Hughes and Gibson do it more than him. Do you even know that bringing up the ball is the point guard's job? It does NOT matter who brings the ball up the court. A point guard is SUPPOSED to do it, however. It's part of their role on the court. The moment they pass that halfcourt line, they can give it to whoever the hell they want. McGrady does bring the ball up the court "frequently", just not as much as Alston because IT'S ALSTON'S JOB TO DO THAT. To be a point forward, all you need are three things: good passing ability, the ability to run an offense thoroughly, and good ball handling abillity. Bringing the ball up the court and being a "primary ball handler" has nothing to do with anything. Does Odom bring the ball up the court? No. Smush Parker or Kobe Bryant do. Is Odom the primary ball handler? No. Kobe Bryant is. So by your logic, Lamar Odom isn't a point forward, but it's obvious he is. As long as you're a forward with good point guard characteristics, you're a point forward. Period.

Here's what Wikipedia has to say about point forwards:

Point forward is an unofficial playing position in basketball for those who share the attributes of both a point guard and a forward. A point forward is usually described as a forward (either a small forward or a power forward) who possesses the attributes of a point guard. A point forward can bring the ball up court and direct a play, however, their size also causes match-up problems as bulkier forwards may not want to guard a point forward around the perimeter constantly. Point forwards usually pass-first and shoot-second.

Notice how I bolded "CAN", because they CAN, they do NOT HAVE TO.

It could be argued that NBA legend Magic Johnson was a point forward. While officially being a point guard, Johnson was 6'9", and was among the league leaders in assists and rebounding. It could also be argued that NBA star LeBron James is a point forward. James is 6'8", but brings the ball up court rather frequently for the Cleveland Cavaliers. Even when James does not take the ball up court, he creates plays and sets up his teammates for a shot.
The best examples of point forwards are Magic Johnson, Paul Pressey, Scottie Pippen, Grant Hill, LeBron James, Anfernee Hardaway, Lamar Odom, Antoine Walker, Oliver Miller and Boris Diaw.


Even when he does NOT, that still makes him a point forward, same for McGrady and Odom. And the only reason McGrady isn't on that list of good point forwards is because he primarily played shooting GUARD for the Rockets in the '06-'07 season.

DON even gave you some tape of the Rockets with mcGrady distributing and ballhandling, yet you're still immature enough to not care and resort to calling him an idiot. That usually means you're in denial and you don't know what else to say, so you resort to profanity. In other words, you're pathetic. Perhaps grow up and learn to accept people's facts and stop ignoring them and overlapping them with your poorly thought-out thoeries.

So as you can see, you've been bombarded with the facts you so heavily desired. Now that you actually know what a point forward is, you should probably go do some more research and watch some more tape of Tracy McGrady and Lamar Odom before you come here trying to tell people what a point forward is with barely any hardcore facts to back up your theories.

Tracy McGrady is a point forward.

Remember that from your other topic? If those aren't facts, I don't know what are.

[tmacyaokobe01]

yeah and i still proved you wrong point?

you are getting pretty lame dude.

[Richie2k6]

yeah and i still proved you wrong point?

you are getting pretty lame dude.
Please re-explain how you proved me wrong. Because you didn't. Pick apart my entire post, and try to prove me wrong. Really, I'm waiting.

[brantonli]

If you call McGrady a point forward because of his assists then Call M.J one.

He had lots of 6+ apg seasons and would you consider Iggy a point forward?


Yes I do actually. Not MJ because he's a pure SG, while McGrady and Iguodala are swingmen.

Richie, you need to provide the link so that I can scrounge up some arguement as well.

[tmacyaokobe01]

Yes I do actually. Not MJ because he's a pure SG, while McGrady and Iguodala are swingmen.

Richie, you need to provide the link so that I can scrounge up some arguement as well.
really?

Iguodola?

M.J played forward at times so If T-Mac is one add M.J, Pierce and Iggy.

[Richie2k6]

Yes I do actually. Not MJ because he's a pure SG, while McGrady and Iguodala are swingmen.

Richie, you need to provide the link so that I can scrounge up some arguement as well.
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=49659

[tmacyaokobe01]

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=49659
does it really bother you if Tracy McGrady is not considered a point forward?
really.

Ignorant.

[brantonli]

really?

Iguodola?

M.J played forward at times so If T-Mac is one add M.J, Pierce and Iggy.

*lies more buckets out, kicks them all down* Yep, I consider Pierce a poitn forward as well, especially now with Allen at SG. And when I mean play both position I mean play them consistently, and Scottie was the one playing SF on the bulls.

[tmacyaokobe01]

*lies more buckets out, kicks them all down* Yep, I consider Pierce a poitn forward as well, especially now with Allen at SG. And when I mean play both position I mean play them consistently, and Scottie was the one playing SF on the bulls.
:oldlol:

no wonder why

[Richie2k6]

does it really bother you if Tracy McGrady is not considered a point forward?
really.

Ignorant.
Do you know the meaning of "ignorant"? You're a prime example. Again, people bombard you with facts and you refuse to accept them and overlap them with your own without showing respect to anybody else. That's ignorant. And that's you. Stop calling other people what you are. I mean seriously, you should know in the back of your own head that you're ignorant.

No, it doesn't bother me if people say he isn't. It's just that YOU both me because you say he isn't while using stupid "facts" like "He doesn't bring the ball up the court enough." That's not his job.

[brantonli]

Tmac is a swingman. IE G/F. He's made allstar teams as a forward before and he basically is there primary ball handler. He's there main playmaker, I believe he leads them in assists and often initiates their offense. Therefore you are wrong and this is a dumb thread. Because there are a lot of point forwards. Hell Pierce has played point forward a good amount of his career.

Im out.


From your other thread.

[tmacyaokobe01]

Do you know the meaning of "ignorant"? You're a prime example. Again, people bombard you with facts and you refuse to accept them and overlap them with your own without showing respect to anybody else. That's ignorant. And that's you. Stop calling other people what you are. I mean seriously, you should know in the back of your own head that you're ignorant.

No, it doesn't bother me if people say he isn't. It's just that YOU both me because you say he isn't while using stupid "facts" like "He doesn't bring the ball up the court enough." That's not his job.
yes you are ignorant.

you don't listen to any facts i don't think.

[tmacyaokobe01]

From your other thread.
anybody who calls pierce a point forward or t-mac a point forward needs to get there head check.

[Richie2k6]

yes you are ignorant.

you don't listen to any facts i don't think.
:oldlol: You're so hypocritical, it's funny.

anybody who calls pierce a point forward or t-mac a point forward needs to get there head check.
Being ignorant at it's best right there. Seriously man, you honestly don't think you're ignorant? Be honest.

And I'm still waiting for you to pick apart my post and try to prove me wrong.

[tmacyaokobe01]

:oldlol: You're so hypocritical, it's funny.

Being ignorant at it's best right there. Seriously man, you honestly don't think you're ignorant? Be honest.

And I'm still waiting for you to pick apart my post and try to prove me wrong.
i think i can be ignorant

but at this thread no i haven't been ignorant.

[KYColonel]

T-Mac is a point forward by default. The rockets haven't had any floor generals at the 1 spot, so he has had to handle a majority of the playmaking duties from the 3.
He's not a classic point forward in the Pippen, Mashburn, G.Hill mode, and he probably will lose some of the ballhandling responsibilities because of the Rockets' off season moves this year. Their point stable is solid, plus Stevie F. is back in the mix to take off some of the pressure.

[tmacyaokobe01]

T-Mac is a point forward by default. The rockets haven't had any floor generals at the 1 spot, so he has had to handle a majority of the playmaking duties from the 3.
He's not a classic point forward in the Pippen, Mashburn, G.Hill mode, and he probably will lose some of the ballhandling responsibilities because of the Rockets' off season moves this year. Their point stable is solid, plus Stevie F. is back in the mix to take off some of the pressure.
Actually they have Rafer Alston and Luther Head.

[brantonli]

yes you are ignorant.

you don't listen to any facts i don't think.


Your one, ah, dare I call it, fact: is that McGrady doesn't bring the ball up the court.

Oh dear, because he doesn't dribble that extra 41 feet up the court means that there's no way he takes part in the offense in passing the ball along and finding open team mates, what a doofus I was :rollingeyes:

[Richie2k6]

i think i can be ignorant

but at this thread no i haven't been ignorant.
You have been in the other thread.

And I'm still waiting for you.

[tmacyaokobe01]

Your one, ah, dare I call it, fact: is that McGrady doesn't bring the ball up the court.

Oh dear, because he doesn't dribble that extra 41 feet up the court means that there's no way he takes part in the offense in passing the ball along and finding open team mates, what a doofus I was :rollingeyes:
Hes not the primary ball-handler

there are a lot more reasons i'll explain them.

[Richie2k6]

Hes not the primary ball-handler

there are a lot more reasons i'll explain them.
Do you watch Rockets basketball? HE IS the primary ball handler.

[tmacyaokobe01]

The Rockets' offense is basically Yao in the post or T-Mac creating on the wing. They're not running that many plays for anyone else, which is what you'd expect from a team with a point forward.

It's not that he doesn't have the skills; the Rockets just don't have the offense or the personnel to have a point forward.

My buddy from another forum wrote this.

[tmacyaokobe01]

Do you watch Rockets basketball? HE IS the primary ball handler.
are you on crack?

Rafer Alston is.

[Richie2k6]

are you on crack?

Rafer Alston is.
Ugh...


I'm still waiting.

[brantonli]

The Rockets' offense is basically Yao in the post or T-Mac creating on the wing. They're not running that many plays for anyone else, which is what you'd expect from a team with a point forward.

It's not that he doesn't have the skills; the Rockets just don't have the offense or the personnel to have a point forward.

My buddy from another forum wrote this.


There you go. You've just said the exact reason why McGrady is a point forward. He creates and the coach uses McGrady to make plays. Besides, your point of a team not needing a point foward is irrelevant, and even that is debatable, because it doesn't change is he's a point forward or not.

[tmacyaokobe01]

Ugh...


I'm still waiting.
waiting for what?

yes i do watch rockets basketball.

[tmacyaokobe01]

There you go. You've just said the exact reason why McGrady is a point forward. He creates and the coach uses McGrady to make plays. Besides, your point of a team not needing a point foward is irrelevant, and even that is debatable, because it doesn't change is he's a point forward or not.
your definition must be very easy to be a point forward then.

Just because he is creating for others doesn't make him a point forward.

[tmacyaokobe01]

There are only a few teams with the offense and personnel in the other positions that could even have a point forward. If you have a dominant big man or a pass first PG, you don't need a point forward. Why?? Because it's easier to run your offense from those points than from where a PF would have the ball -- all the angles change.

[brantonli]

your definition must be very easy to be a point forward then.

Just because he is creating for others doesn't make him a point forward.

WTF? Now even creating for other plays doesn't mean you're a point forward then what does? This is just getting ridiculous.

[Rockets(T-mac)]

are you on crack?

Rafer Alston is.
Are you a crack did you not get it the first time. He is a point forward. Alston brings it up the court and then T-mac does the rest of the handling. T-mac is main playmaker and handles the ball most in half court settings. Even if he didn't handle the ball the most you can't use that one reason to say he isn't a point forward. You said last time that Odom is a point forward but Kobe and Parker brought the ball up more than him. You contradict yourself. You use the stupidest logic and you have the wrong definition of a point forward.

[tmacyaokobe01]

WTF? Now even creating for other plays doesn't mean you're a point forward then what does? This is just getting ridiculous.
Melo creates plays.

point forward?

a lot of players create plays

Yao even creates plays due to how much attention he draws.

[tmacyaokobe01]

Are you a crack did you not get it the first time. He is a point forward. Alston brings it up the court and then T-mac does the rest of the handling. T-mac is main playmaker and handles the ball most in half court settings. Even if he didn't handle the ball the most you can't use that one reason to say he isn't a point forward. You said last time that Odom is a point forward but Kobe and Parker brought the ball up more than him. You contradict yourself. You use the stupidest logic and you have the wrong definition of a point forward.

when did i say kobe or parker handled the ball more?

i said kobe clearly.

[Richie2k6]

waiting for what?

yes i do watch rockets basketball.
You're in denial and losing confidence. You know you can't counter my post so you're pretending you forgot it even existed. Pick apart my long post and counter argue it. I'm waiting.

[tmacyaokobe01]

this is getting stupid.

It isn't an insult that McGrady isn't a point forward.

[luigi>mario]

Wow

I love how much discussion we have here on ISH about positions. I'm guilty. But I think we try to define positions in basketball which is a sport that just doesn't lend itself to positions very much. 5 guys play, they can all do separate rolls, unlike football which kinda dictates what you need on the field.

I say TMac has a great playmaking ability and mobility/handles for his size. He could have been developed into a pass-over-your-head point guard, but the scoring was more important.

[tmacyaokobe01]

You're in denial and losing confidence. You know you can't counter my post so you're pretending you forgot it even existed. Pick apart my long post and counter argue it. I'm waiting.
go to the other thread i'm sure i said something over there ignorant fool...

[Richie2k6]

go to the other thread i'm sure i said something over there ignorant fool...
No, you didn't do it directly and properly. I want you to do it right now. Stop stalling. If you think you're so right then prove me wrong, tough guy.

[Rockets(T-mac)]

when did i say kobe or parker handled the ball more?

i said kobe clearly.
You said that Odom was point forward and you said that Kobe handles the ball, but you said that the point forward needs the be the primary ball handler.

[tmacyaokobe01]

No, you didn't do it directly and properly. I want you to do it right now. Stop stalling.
i'm not gonna waste my time with you.

you were the same person who said lets leave so he can sleep at time.

well you can do it by yourself now.

[tmacyaokobe01]

You said that Odom was point forward and you said that Kobe handles the ball, but you said that the point forward needs the be the primary ball handler.
I don't even consider Odom a legit point forward because he keeps switching on and off.

I never did considered him a legit one.

But he is one.

[luigi>mario]

WTF? Now even creating for other plays doesn't mean you're a point forward then what does? This is just getting ridiculous.

Hey, its true a lot of guys make plays for others. If your point guard is the only guy making plays for teammates, your team sucks.

[Richie2k6]

i'm not gonna waste my time with you.

you were the same person who said lets leave so he can sleep at time.

well you can do it by yourself now.
That doesn't even make sense. Don't want to waste your time? You seem to have a lot of time on your hands because you're making topics everywhere and arguing with everybody. It's more like you CAN'T prove me wrong. You claim you don't want to waste your time, but you know just as well as I do that you can't prove me wrong, that's why you won't.

Finally you admit I'm right and you're not. I applaud you for realizing it. Move on.

[tmacyaokobe01]

You said that Odom was point forward and you said that Kobe handles the ball, but you said that the point forward needs the be the primary ball handler.
you must really find it an insult if McGrady isn't a point forward.

[brantonli]

i'm not gonna waste my time with you.

you were the same person who said lets leave so he can sleep at time.

well you can do it by yourself now.

Yeah, I'm going to leave now because I need to sleep on time. Oh no, this means I'm not worth you time. In reality, this thread simply is not worth arguing about, and needs to die out.

[tmacyaokobe01]

That doesn't even make sense. Don't want to waste your time? You seem to have a lot of time on your hands because you're making topics everywhere and arguing with everybody. It's more like you CAN'T prove me wrong. You claim you don't want to waste your time, but you know just as well as I do that you can't prove me wrong, that's why you won't.

Finally you admit I'm right and you're not. I applaud you for realizing it. Move on.
its more like i'm not gonna deal with an ignorant fool like yourself.

You are losing it my friend....

[tmacyaokobe01]

Yeah, I'm going to leave now because I need to sleep on time. Oh no, this means I'm not worth you time. In reality, this thread simply is not worth arguing about, and needs to die out.
yeah, because we all know T-Mac is not a point forward even T-Mac would probably say it himself.

[Richie2k6]

its more like i'm not gonna deal with an ignorant fool like yourself.

You are losing it my friend....
You're very hypocritical.

And again, you're not going to deal with me because you know I'm right and you can't counter my argument. It's pretty obvious. That's the only reason people stop arguing is when one of them knows they're wrong. In this case, it's you.

Well I'm done here. You've made it clear that you know I'm right. Goodbye.

[Rockets(T-mac)]

I don't even consider Odom a legit point forward because he keeps switching on and off.

I never did considered him a legit one.

But he is one.
A legit one? You said that he was one in the other thread you started.

Any ways if you consider Odom one but not legit how do you not consider T-mac one. You are blind if you think that T-mac doesnt' handle the ball most in an offensive play. He is a great playmaker and great decision maker. A point forward is a forward or G/F that has point guard traits hence the name. Thats all the meaning you don't have to bring the ball up the court the most or anything.

[tmacyaokobe01]

You're very hypocritical.

And again, you're not going to deal with me because you know I'm right and you can't counter my argument. It's pretty obvious. That's the only reason people stop arguing is when one of them knows they're wrong. In this case, it's you.

Well I'm done here. You've made it clear that you know I'm right. Goodbye.
if i didn't say anything about it then i didn't admit it.

You must think that if i don't respond to a idiot that means i lost.

it seems like you lost because your pathetic.

[tmacyaokobe01]

A legit one? You said that he was one in the other thread you started.

Any ways if you consider Odom one but not legit how do you not consider T-mac one. You are blind if you think that T-mac doesnt' handle the ball most in an offensive play. He is a great playmaker and great decision maker. A point forward is a forward or G/F that has point guard traits hence the name. Thats all the meaning you don't have to bring the ball up the court the most or anything.
Read my posts from the back.

The Rockets' offense is basically Yao in the post or T-Mac creating on the wing. They're not running that many plays for anyone else, which is what you'd expect from a team with a point forward.

It's not that he doesn't have the skills; the Rockets just don't have the offense or the personnel to have a point forward.

[Richie2k6]

if i didn't say anything about it then i didn't admit it.

You must think that if i don't respond to a idiot that means i lost.

it seems like you lost because your pathetic.
How am I pathetic if I made a massive post full of facts and you don't want to reply?

[Rockets(T-mac)]

yeah, because we all know T-Mac is not a point forward even T-Mac would probably say it himself.
T-mac said himself that when someone on his team hit a three he was the one that was suppose to create it for them, he said that he was the playmaker.

[tmacyaokobe01]

How am I pathetic if I made a massive post full of facts and you don't want to reply?
didn't i reply by saying T-Mac isn't the primary ball-handler?

By the way you took it from wikipedia.

which is editable.

[tmacyaokobe01]

T-mac said himself that when someone on his team hit a three he was the one that was suppose to create it for them, he said that he was the playmaker.
Playmaker and Point forward are two different things.

Yao is even a playmaker himself.

Point-Center?

No..

[Richie2k6]

didn't i reply by saying T-Mac isn't the primary ball-handler?

By the way you took it from wikipedia.

which is editable.
"T-Mac isn't the primary ball handler."

That's your response to my post? THAT is your entire argument? No wonder you won't comment on my post, you have nothing to say except that. By the way, I took PART of it from Wikipedia. And yes, it's editable, but is often edited back to the original if it's loaded with crap. That information was legitimate.

[Rockets(T-mac)]

Read my posts from the back.

The Rockets' offense is basically Yao in the post or T-Mac creating on the wing. They're not running that many plays for anyone else, which is what you'd expect from a team with a point forward.

It's not that he doesn't have the skills; the Rockets just don't have the offense or the personnel to have a point forward.
That is the studipest logic I have heard the Rockets dont' have the personel to have T-mac as a point forward but T-mac has the skill to be one. You just basically said that he is one. And no if you have a point forward you don't have to run plays for too many other people. The point forward makes the plays for others to get good shots which is exactly what T-mac does.

[luigi>mario]

Has anyone ever seen two beetles fight?:applause:

[tmacyaokobe01]

That is the studipest logic I have heard the Rockets dont' have the personel to have T-mac as a point forward but T-mac has the skill to be one. You just basically said that he is one. And no if you have a point forward you don't have to run plays for too many other people. The point forward makes the plays for others to get good shots which is exactly what T-mac does.
WOW.

Then your calling M.J, Pierce, Iggy and a lot more

that is the worst logic ever.

McGrady only plays roles of a point forward but isn't.

That is clearly the answer if you honestly don't believe me.

just get out you are on drugs.

[tmacyaokobe01]

Has anyone ever seen two beetles fight?:applause:
i've seen two idiots attack.

[Rockets(T-mac)]

Playmaker and Point forward are two different things.

Yao is even a playmaker himself.

Point-Center?

No..
Yao isn't not a playmaker. He passes out of double teams (not that well any ways) that wasn't done on purpose he was tring to score but he could so he passed. T-mac makes plays for others one purpose, he sees a player open in the corner so he sets them up.

A forward that playmakes and and runs the offense is a point forward IMO and most people (except you) would agree.

[brantonli]

WOW.

Then your calling M.J, Pierce, Iggy and a lot more

that is the worst logic ever.

McGrady only plays roles of a point forward but isn't.

That is clearly the answer if you honestly don't believe me.

just get out you are on drugs.

I'm back on because of your incredible logic. I'm not going to call names or insult, but come on, if he does the roles of a point forward (as you have said) then he's clearly a point forward!

[Richie2k6]

A forward that playmakes and and runs the offense is a point forward IMO and most people (except you) would agree.
*Raises hand.*
I agree.

[tmacyaokobe01]

Yao isn't not a playmaker. He passes out of double teams (not that well any ways) that wasn't done on purpose he was tring to score but he could so he passed. T-mac makes plays for others one purpose, he sees a player open in the corner so he sets them up.

A forward that playmakes and and runs the offense is a point forward IMO and most people (except you) would agree.
do you honestly know what a playmaker is?

Yao is a playmaker why...

Yao gets doubled team.

he passes it to Luther or Alston or Battier.

and he hits the 3.

THATS MAKING A PLAY

Its making something out of nothing.

This is your example of a playmaker

his name must be tracy mcgrady or hes not a playmaker.

[Jailblazers7]

If you havent watched him play and dont watch Rocket games dont act like you know the team in and out and everyone's role on the team. Rafer Alston may be list at PG on the roster and in the starting 5 but his role isnt that of what a true PG is. He doesnt handle the ball, sey up teammates, and get the team in the flow of the offense. His role is spot up at the 3 point line and knock down the open jumper whenever T-Mac drive and kicks.

Maybe you need to hear the definition of a true PG before you can understand what a point forward is. I am not talking about the Smush Parkers and Rafer Alstons of the league. I am talking about the Steve Nashs, Andre Millers, and TJ Fords of the league. What a true PG will do is set up his teammates and not exactly make them better but put them in spots where they are most likely to succeed. You cant really make someone better by just playing with them, for example, Raja Bell is not a better player because of Steve Nash. Steve Nash just simply puts him in situation with the ball where he is going to succeed and get him easier shots.

If you actually watched Rockets games this season you will see that T-Mac is the one who was putting his teammates in position to score. He was the one that would drive and kick and allow Luther Head, Shane Battier, and Rafer Alston to have open 3 point attempts. This is also a reason why T-Mac is more important to the team than Yao I feel as we saw when they were both injured. Their offense was stagnant without T-Mac because he was the one facilitating the offense and making the game easier for his teammates.

[tmacyaokobe01]

I'm back on because of your incredible logic. I'm not going to call names or insult, but come on, if he does the roles of a point forward (as you have said) then he's clearly a point forward!\
umm.. No.

Roles and actually being one is different.

Jason Kidd plays roles of a center.

by rebounding

point-center?

NO!!!!

[tmacyaokobe01]

If you havent watched him play and dont watch Rocket games dont act like you know the team in and out and everyone's role on the team. Rafer Alston may be list at PG on the roster and in the starting 5 but his role isnt that of what a true PG is. He doesnt handle the ball, sey up teammates, and get the team in the flow of the offense. His role is spot up at the 3 point line and knock down the open jumper whenever T-Mac drive and kicks.

Maybe you need to hear the definition of a true PG before you can understand what a point forward is. I am not talking about the Smush Parkers and Rafer Alstons of the league. I am talking about the Steve Nashs, Andre Millers, and TJ Fords of the league. What a true PG will do is set up his teammates and not exactly make them better but put them in spots where they are most likely to succeed. You cant really make someone better by just playing with them, for example, Raja Bell is not a better player because of Steve Nash. Steve Nash just simply puts him in situation with the ball where he is going to succeed and get him easier shots.

If you actually watched Rockets games this season you will see that T-Mac is the one who was putting his teammates in position to score. He was the one that would drive and kick and allow Luther Head, Shane Battier, and Rafer Alston to have open 3 point attempts. This is also a reason why T-Mac is more important to the team than Yao I feel as we saw when they were both injured. Their offense was stagnant without T-Mac because he was the one facilitating the offense and making the game easier for his teammates.
McGrady's job was to playmake not be the point forward.

Alston's job was to be the primary ball-handler of the team.

[Rockets(T-mac)]

WOW.

Then your calling M.J, Pierce, Iggy and a lot more

that is the worst logic ever.

McGrady only plays roles of a point forward but isn't.

That is clearly the answer if you honestly don't believe me.

just get out you are on drugs.
Pierce is and Iguodala are point forwards at times (Iguodala more than Pierce). MJ could be considered one if he played more forward. As long as you run the offense, playmake for others (those two things would mean that you handle the ball a lot but you don't have to handle the ball the most) you are a point forward.

[Richie2k6]

If you havent watched him play and dont watch Rocket games dont act like you know the team in and out and everyone's role on the team. Rafer Alston may be list at PG on the roster and in the starting 5 but his role isnt that of what a true PG is. He doesnt handle the ball, sey up teammates, and get the team in the flow of the offense. His role is spot up at the 3 point line and knock down the open jumper whenever T-Mac drive and kicks.

Maybe you need to hear the definition of a true PG before you can understand what a point forward is. I am not talking about the Smush Parkers and Rafer Alstons of the league. I am talking about the Steve Nashs, Andre Millers, and TJ Fords of the league. What a true PG will do is set up his teammates and not exactly make them better but put them in spots where they are most likely to succeed. You cant really make someone better by just playing with them, for example, Raja Bell is not a better player because of Steve Nash. Steve Nash just simply puts him in situation with the ball where he is going to succeed and get him easier shots.

If you actually watched Rockets games this season you will see that T-Mac is the one who was putting his teammates in position to score. He was the one that would drive and kick and allow Luther Head, Shane Battier, and Rafer Alston to have open 3 point attempts. This is also a reason why T-Mac is more important to the team than Yao I feel as we saw when they were both injured. Their offense was stagnant without T-Mac because he was the one facilitating the offense and making the game easier for his teammates.
Jailblazers, do you consider McGrady a point forward?

[Jailblazers7]

\
umm.. No.

Roles and actually being one is different.

Jason Kidd plays roles of a center.

by rebounding

point-center?

NO!!!!

You are rediculous. I guess every player in the freaking league plays roles of a center because they rebound. Rebounding is not a centers role it is the role of everyone on the court.

[Jailblazers7]

Jailblazers, do you consider McGrady a point forward?

Yes.

[tmacyaokobe01]

Pierce is and Iguodala are point forwards at times (Iguodala more than Pierce). MJ could be considered one if he played more forward. As long as you run the offense, playmake for others (those two things would mean that you handle the ball a lot but you don't have to handle the ball the most) you are a point forward.
then don't argue with me.

Yao playmakes too yet you exclude him out.

[Richie2k6]

Yes.
Good. One more person to add to the knowedgable people in this argument.

[Rockets(T-mac)]

do you honestly know what a playmaker is?

Yao is a playmaker why...

Yao gets doubled team.

he passes it to Luther or Alston or Battier.

and he hits the 3.

THATS MAKING A PLAY

Its making something out of nothing.

This is your example of a playmaker

his name must be tracy mcgrady or hes not a playmaker.
So Rasho Nesterovic is playmaker by that logic he passes out of double teams to an open Anthony Parker some times.

[tmacyaokobe01]

Good. One more person to add to the knowedgable people in this argument.
just because people agree on your opinion there knowledgeable?

:oldlol: :applause:

[tmacyaokobe01]

So Rasho Nesterovic is playmaker by that logic he passes out of double teams to an open Anthony Parker some times.
and when are they doubled team?

:oldlol:

you have no idea what a playmaker really is.

[Rockets(T-mac)]

then don't argue with me.

Yao playmakes too yet you exclude him out.
Does Yao run the offense? Does he initiate plays? That is what a point forward does.

[tmacyaokobe01]

Does Yao run the offense? Does he initiate plays? That is what a point forward does.
at the start of the season

he basically did run the offense.

[Richie2k6]

and when are they doubled team?

:oldlol:

you have no idea what a playmaker really is.
A playmaker is somebody who sets up others INTENTIONALLY with the mind set of creating for other people. When Yao gets the ball in the post, his mindset is usually to score, not to set up shooters and draw double teams. When you get doubled, you pass it. It's a natural instinct. You do it to prvent turnovers. Passing out of double teams doesn't make you a playmaker.

By that logic, everybody in the NBA is a playmaker, because they all get double teamed eventually. It seems like you don't know what a playmaker is. Again, a playmaker is somebody with the mindset of creating for others. Yao doesn't have the mindset to set up others. When he passes out of the double team to shooters, it's because he has no other choice.

[Rockets(T-mac)]

and when are they doubled team?

:oldlol:

you have no idea what a playmaker really is.
If Rasho is posting up players some times come around to steal the ball or give him trouble they don't do this as often as they would say Duncan but it happens. So is Rasho a playmaker?

[tmacyaokobe01]

A playmaker is somebody who sets up others INTENTIONALLY with the mind set of creating for other people. When Yao gets the ball in the post, his mindset is usually to score, not to set up shooters and draw double teams. When you get doubled, you pass it. It's a natural instinct. You do it to prvent turnovers. Passing out of double teams doesn't make you a playmaker.

By that logic, everybody in the NBA is a playmaker, because they all get double teamed eventually. It seems like you don't know what a playmaker is. Again, a playmaker is somebody with the mindset of creating for others. Yao doesn't have the mindset to set up others. When he passes out of the double team to shooters, it's because he has no ther choice.
Really?

then mcgrady isn't a playmaker either.

His mindset is more to score as well.

He is the 1st option on the team as well i forgot to mention that.

When you have the best center on your team and you are the 1st option.

Then that means that you are more of a scorer then a passer

For Example, Pippen had M.J and he was the 2nd option and Penny Had Shaq and Penny was the 2nd option.

[tmacyaokobe01]

If Rasho is posting up players some times come around to steal the ball or give him trouble they don't do this as often as they would say Duncan but it happens. So is Rasho a playmaker?
Still thats a No.

Yao still passes when he isn't doubled team.

When he sees an open man at all he still passes it

The play has just been created.

[Rockets(T-mac)]

Really?

then mcgrady isn't a playmaker either.

His mindset is more to score as well.

He is the 1st option on the team as well i forgot to mention that.

When you have the best center on your team and you are the 1st option.

Then that means that you are more of a scorer then a passer

For Example, Pippen had M.J and he was the 2nd option and Penny Had Shaq and Penny was the 2nd option.
If you have the best center that would mean that you don't have to score as much and yes T-mac does have the mentality to score, but he also has the mentality to pass and playmake. I can't make it more clear then this. I am leaving like Fudge said I think everyone else should too, make this idiot realize that he is one.

[Richie2k6]

Really?

then mcgrady isn't a playmaker either.

His mindset is more to score as well.

He is the 1st option on the team as well i forgot to mention that.

When you have the best center on your team and you are the 1st option.

Then that means that you are more of a scorer then a passer

For Example, Pippen had M.J and he was the 2nd option and Penny Had Shaq and Penny was the 2nd option.

then mcgrady isn't a playmaker either.

His mindset is more to score as well.
I'm really sorry, I usually don't say stuff like this, it's really not like me. but I just have to get this off my chest, really. I apologize beforehand. That is, by far, the stupidest, most retarded and most bullshi*t statement that you have ever said thus far to anybody. I just had to get that out.

Tracy McGrady's mindset isn't to playmake? Are you mentally challenged? Have you watched a Rockeet's game? It is his job to do so. if Tracy McGrady does not playmake, the team will not do well. When McGrady sits on the bench, they look like children passing the ball like a hot potato and the offense is lost.

Saying McGrady's mentallity is to score and not playmake is easily the most retarded statement I've ever heard come out of your unknowledgable mouth. You need to watch basketball. And I'm being serious. I'm not saying this to put you down, I'm saying this truthfully. You REALLY need to watch basketball man. Watch Rockets games, watch tape, study their offense. I mean honestly, that was an extremely stupid statement and you've lost all hope of winning this argument.

I'm leaving.

[Fudge]

How are you debating? seriously? (I'll try to be nice) Just answer that.

Surprised me you've actually said "opinion", because from what i've seen, everyone who've responded spat out their own opinions. You then get in the way saying all this crap how he isn't yet you have no further justification. Nothing. Nadda. It's peoples opinions just like you said. Everything think's he is, while you don't. Let's just leave at that alright?

[tmacyaokobe01]

Tracy McGrady most of his career has been a scoring guard. He's never been a guy who was looking to pass first. He has never been a guy who starts breaks or finishes breaks like a traditonal SF would. However, TMac is capable of being a point-forward as well as many other talented guards in the NBA. Lebron James is someone who comes to mind as well. However, TMac has always been a scorer and a big time scorer.

That doesn't mean he's not a good passer, because he is, but I wouldn't consider him a point-forward. At times he is and thats just a testament to his level of talent but he's a scorer and thats been his job his whole career.

[tmacyaokobe01]

How are you debating? seriously? (I'll try to be nice) Just answer that.

Surprised me you've actually said "opinion", because from what i've seen, everyone who've responded spat out their own opinions. You then get in the way saying all this crap how he isn't yet you have no further justification. Nothing. Nadda. It's peoples opinions just like you said. Everything think's he is, while you don't. Let's just leave at that alright?
yeah and people have said no they are just not willing to debate with morons like richie.

[Richie2k6]

Tracy McGrady most of his career has been a scoring guard. He's never been a guy who was looking to pass first. He has never been a guy who starts breaks or finishes breaks like a traditonal SF would. However, TMac is capable of being a point-forward as well as many other talented guards in the NBA. Lebron James is someone who comes to mind as well. However, TMac has always been a scorer and a big time scorer.

That doesn't mean he's not a good passer, because he is, but I wouldn't consider him a point-forward. At times he is and thats just a testament to his level of talent but he's a scorer and thats been his job his whole career.
You copied that off somebody else didn't you.

[tmacyaokobe01]

You copied that off somebody else didn't you.
yeah, but neither way i agree with him and he said that he isn't a point forward using examples.

[Jailblazers7]

It is all about roles on the team you cant just look at his skills and say oh he is a point forward or looks at his past and say he is just a scorer. The Orlando T-Mac was a scorer just a flat out scorer and not much along the ways of creating for his teammates except for all the attention he drew away from them. If you look at T-Mac on the Rockets it is his job to create for his teammates and intitiate the offense. I cant believe you said Yao was a playmaker. :oldlol: When Yao gets the ball he is think "Im gonna put up a baby hook or a short jumper to score". Then when a double to comes he thinks "Oh sh!t a double team where is a red jersey to pass to". Yao is not trying to hit the open man off a double he is looking to kick it out repost and then score.

[Rockets(T-mac)]

Tracy McGrady most of his career has been a scoring guard. He's never been a guy who was looking to pass first. He has never been a guy who starts breaks or finishes breaks like a traditonal SF would. However, TMac is capable of being a point-forward as well as many other talented guards in the NBA. Lebron James is someone who comes to mind as well. However, TMac has always been a scorer and a big time scorer.

That doesn't mean he's not a good passer, because he is, but I wouldn't consider him a point-forward. At times he is and thats just a testament to his level of talent but he's a scorer and thats been his job his whole career.
I am sorry I had to come back but this statement is just stupid. T-mac did have to scorer a lot on Orlando. He doesn't have to any more he has Yao to share the scoring. You have never watched a Rockets game which is clear because on the Rockets it is T-mac's job to playmake he is the best one on the team. If didn't do it (like Richie said) their offense wouldn't work properly. If you don't get it well....a I can say is go watch the Rockets cuz you obviously haven't watched them.

[tmacyaokobe01]

well this shows who i have to ignore.

Jail Blazers is the only one with logic here really.

[Fudge]

Quit responding guys. Some attention seeker or something.

I'll respect your opinion about McGrady's PF background. Keep in my mind that these are all others' opinions. You can't debate about that, unless they're willing to, I guess. But, they did. And yet, you're still in denial. Speaking out of your ass by saying Ignorant doesn't quite cut it considering you have no proof whatsoever on the subject. So i'll just quit already if I were you. It's obvious you've been defeated.

[Rockets(T-mac)]

It is all about roles on the team you cant just look at his skills and say oh he is a point forward or looks at his past and say he is just a scorer. The Orlando T-Mac was a scorer just a flat out scorer and not much along the ways of creating for his teammates except for all the attention he drew away from them. If you look at T-Mac on the Rockets it is his job to create for his teammates and intitiate the offense. I cant believe you said Yao was a playmaker. :oldlol: When Yao gets the ball he is think "Im gonna put up a baby hook or a short jumper to score". Then when a double to comes he thinks "Oh sh!t a double team where is a red jersey to pass to". Yao is not trying to hit the open man off a double he is looking to kick it out repost and then score.
There read that. That is the best explanation on T-mac and Yao's roles.

[tmacyaokobe01]

Quit responding guys. Some attention seeker or something.

I'll respect your opinion about McGrady's PF background. Keep in my mind that these are all others' opinions. You can't debate about that, unless they're willing to, I guess. But, they did. And yet, you're still in denial. Speaking out of your ass by saying Ignorant doesn't quite cut it considering you have no proof whatsoever on the subject. So i'll just quit already if I were you. It's obvious you've been defeated.
lmao

yeah me debating 5 people by myself.

i wasn't even looking for a debate i was just looking for other's answers

why don't you go curse somewhere else.

its laughable that your a mod.

[Fudge]

And it's laughable hearing you're response's to others opinions. Calling them "Ignorant", etc. When your the one who clearly is. Just get out of here kiddo. We should invite GOBB in here, see what you'll get into.

[tmacyaokobe01]

And it's laughable hearing you're response's to others opinions. Calling them "Ignorant", etc. When your the one who clearly is. Just get out of here kiddo. We should invite GOBB in here, see what you'll get into.
we should get Tracy McGrady here and see what happens.

he'll probably say I'M NOT A POINT FORWARD.

[Richie2k6]

And it's laughable hearing you're response's to others opinions. Calling them "Ignorant", etc. When your the one who clearly is. Just get out of here kiddo. We should invite GOBB in here, see what you'll get into.
Get fatboy. He'll prove him wrong. :oldlol:

[Jailblazers7]

we should get Tracy McGrady here and see what happens.

he'll probably say I'M NOT A POINT FORWARD.

:roll:

[Richie2k6]

well this shows who i have to ignore.

Jail Blazers is the only one with logic here really.
I said a lot of what he said. And if he has so much logic, which he does, why don't you argue with him? I know why - because you can't. :oldlol: Just like you can't argue with this:

Why do you keep insisting I've stated opinions? What opinion have I given? I've given nothing but facts. You want to know why McGrady is a point forward? I'll tell you.

A point forward is a forward who has point guard characteristics and traits that allow him to run an offense LIKE a point guard. You do not have to bring the ball up the damn court to be a point forward. And to your Lamar Odom statement, sorry, you're wrong. You said be brings the ball up the court a lot? No, he doesn't. That's not how the triangle offense works. Do you even know the slightest thing about the Lakers' offensive gameplan, kid? The triangle offense consists of a guard bringing the ball up the court, performing a lag pass to another player, then the offensive can initiate from then on. That's one of the ways it works. A GUARD brings it up the court, a.k.a not Lamar Odom. Lamar Odom is a forward. A point forward to be exact. How come? Because he is a forward with point guard characteristics. He can run an offense, is a good passer, is a playmaker and is a ball handler. It's pretty clear that you need to study the triangle offense and go learn something about it, because your foolish thoeries are far from correct.

And to your comment about the point forward having to be the primary ball handler, that's a load of bull, quite frankly. Primary ball handler? Here's a shot at your foolish Boris Diaw comment. You claim all point forwards are primary ball handlers - Boris Diaw is clearly NOT the primary ball handler. Go ask a 3 year old baby on the street and even he'll tell you that it's clearly undoubtably obvious that Steve Nash handles the rock more than any other Phoenix Sun by a mile. You say point forwards have to be primary ball handlers, but Boris Diaw isn't.

And what's all this about "point guard handles"? You say McGrady has shooting guard handles? What is "shooting guard handles"? You have a picture of McGrady in your avatar, but you don't know anything about his game. McGrady is an excellent ball handler who hardly turns it over. He handles the ball probably more than Rafer Alston, thus making him the primary ball handler in your eyes. He doesn't turn it over much, and he's shown his ball-handling capabilities on the Magic and on the Rockets. he even played all 5 positions in high school, only furthering the fact that he has experience running and offense. Funny how you say you've been stating facts, when you haven't. You've been stating what you THINK are facts, but are really stuff you don't know anything about.

You said Andrei Kirilenko brought the ball up the court sometimes for the Jazz in the playoffs. But you said a point forward has to be the primary ball handler, which he isn't. It's obvious Deron Williams. Since you claim you need to be the primary ball handler to be a point forward, but AK isn't, how come he's a point forward to you? Got your "facts" all messed up now, huh? A point forward does NOT have to bring the ball up the court and does NOT need to be the primary ball handler.

You said Lebron James brings the ball up the court a lot for the Cavaliers. It's pretty obvious that Hughes and Gibson do it more than him. Do you even know that bringing up the ball is the point guard's job? It does NOT matter who brings the ball up the court. A point guard is SUPPOSED to do it, however. It's part of their role on the court. The moment they pass that halfcourt line, they can give it to whoever the hell they want. McGrady does bring the ball up the court "frequently", just not as much as Alston because IT'S ALSTON'S JOB TO DO THAT. To be a point forward, all you need are three things: good passing ability, the ability to run an offense thoroughly, and good ball handling abillity. Bringing the ball up the court and being a "primary ball handler" has nothing to do with anything. Does Odom bring the ball up the court? No. Smush Parker or Kobe Bryant do. Is Odom the primary ball handler? No. Kobe Bryant is. So by your logic, Lamar Odom isn't a point forward, but it's obvious he is. As long as you're a forward with good point guard characteristics, you're a point forward. Period.

Here's what Wikipedia has to say about point forwards:

Point forward is an unofficial playing position in basketball for those who share the attributes of both a point guard and a forward. A point forward is usually described as a forward (either a small forward or a power forward) who possesses the attributes of a point guard. A point forward can bring the ball up court and direct a play, however, their size also causes match-up problems as bulkier forwards may not want to guard a point forward around the perimeter constantly. Point forwards usually pass-first and shoot-second.

Notice how I bolded "CAN", because they CAN, they do NOT HAVE TO.

It could be argued that NBA legend Magic Johnson was a point forward. While officially being a point guard, Johnson was 6'9", and was among the league leaders in assists and rebounding. It could also be argued that NBA star LeBron James is a point forward. James is 6'8", but brings the ball up court rather frequently for the Cleveland Cavaliers. Even when James does not take the ball up court, he creates plays and sets up his teammates for a shot.
The best examples of point forwards are Magic Johnson, Paul Pressey, Scottie Pippen, Grant Hill, LeBron James, Anfernee Hardaway, Lamar Odom, Antoine Walker, Oliver Miller and Boris Diaw.


Even when he does NOT, that still makes him a point forward, same for McGrady and Odom. And the only reason McGrady isn't on that list of good point forwards is because he primarily played shooting GUARD for the Rockets in the '06-'07 season.

DON even gave you some tape of the Rockets with mcGrady distributing and ballhandling, yet you're still immature enough to not care and resort to calling him an idiot. That usually means you're in denial and you don't know what else to say, so you resort to profanity. In other words, you're pathetic. Perhaps grow up and learn to accept people's facts and stop ignoring them and overlapping them with your poorly thought-out thoeries.

So as you can see, you've been bombarded with the facts you so heavily desired. Now that you actually know what a point forward is, you should probably go do some more research and watch some more tape of Tracy McGrady and Lamar Odom before you come here trying to tell people what a point forward is with barely any hardcore facts to back up your theories.

Tracy McGrady is a point forward.
Because you know it's right. Give it up kid.

[tmacyaokobe01]

:roll:
what would you think he say?

and richie

you get more and more pathetic

do you even like the rockets?

[Richie2k6]

what would you think he say?

and richie

you get more and more pathetic

do you even like the rockets?
Explain how I'm pathetic.

And no, I'm not a Rockets fan, but that doesn't even matter.

[tmacyaokobe01]

Explain how I'm pathetic.

And no, I'm not a Rockets fan, but that doesn't even matter.
we all have opinions just like the people in the 1st page

a MATURE person accepts that and move on

Richie you are not mature and neither is fudge.

[Richie2k6]

http://my.nba.com/thread.jspa?threadID=400012988

You're obsessed with this whole point forward issue. Move on in life for God's sake.


we all have opinions just like the people in the 1st page

a MATURE person accepts that and move on

Richie you are not mature and neither is fudge.
NOW you're admitting everything you said was purely opinions? Finally. And I'm not mature, yet you're the one not accepting what people say and calling them crackheads? Real mature.

It's about time this thread died. Stop posting now.

[tmacyaokobe01]

http://my.nba.com/thread.jspa?threadID=400012988

You're obsessed with this whole point forward issue. Move on in life for God's sake.
your point?

i'm basically taking a survey.

You are an immature person for all i know.

Some people have agreed with me some people have agreed with you.

[tmacyaokobe01]

http://my.nba.com/thread.jspa?threadID=400012988

You're obsessed with this whole point forward issue. Move on in life for God's sake.


NOW you're admitting everything you said was purely opinions? Finally. And I'm not mature, yet you're the one not accepting what people say and calling them crackheads? Real mature.

It's about time this thread died. Stop posting now.
neither way People have there opinions

yet you act like its a fact when its clearly not.

[Fudge]

survey? Right.


:roll:

[Richie2k6]

neither way People have there opinions

yet you act like its a fact when its clearly not.
What's clearly not?

[tmacyaokobe01]

What's clearly not?
Its not a fact saying Tracy McGrady is a point forward.

[Fudge]

neither way People have there opinions

yet you act like its a fact when its clearly not.
Yeah because you were bound to making it happen.


Crying like a little baby "How is he one?", "Where's the proof?" "You're so ignorant" It's freaking distusting to see, dude.

Quit life. Jump into an ocean. Shouldn't be time consuming considering where you live so why not hey? Do it.

[tmacyaokobe01]

Yeah because you were bound to making it happen.


Crying like a little baby "How is he one?", "Where's the proof?" "You're so ignorant" It's freaking distusting to se, dude. Quit life. Jump into an ocean. Shouldn't be time consuming considering where you live so why not hey? Do it.
keep it coming singleton.

[tmacyaokobe01]

Yeah because you were bound to making it happen.


Crying like a little baby "How is he one?", "Where's the proof?" "You're so ignorant" It's freaking distusting to see, dude.

Quit life. Jump into an ocean. Shouldn't be time consuming considering where you live so why not hey? Do it.
you are by far the biggest 10 year old ever.

you have to personally attack me instead of come up with decent facts

now i know who is stupid and smart.

Jail Blazer is the only smart and mature one that thinks t-mac is a point forward.

[Jailblazers7]

what would you think he say?

and richie

you get more and more pathetic

do you even like the rockets?


I have no clue what he would say i just found that line to be funny. The thing you have to look at is the players respective roles and ways they fit into the offense that they play in. T-Mac doesnt bring the ball up because he already does so many things for the team that he would be worn out if he also had to be the primary ball handler. Its like how Joe Johnson would be a better more efficeint player if he wasnt burdened with the duties of beign the primary ball handler. T-Mac is also more effective at getting into the lane off of triple threat or catching the ball than bringing it up, crossing half court, and then finally making a move into the lane.

[tmacyaokobe01]

I have no clue what he would say i just found that line to be funny. The thing you have to look at is the players respective roles and ways they fit into the offense that they play in. T-Mac doesnt bring the ball up because he already does so many things for the team that he would be worn out if he also had to be the primary ball handler. Its like how Joe Johnson would be a better more efficeint player if he wasnt burdened with the duties of beign the primary ball handler. T-Mac is also more effective at getting into the lane off of triple threat or catching the ball than bringing it up, crossing half court, and then finally making a move into the lane.
i respect you as a poster.

You are actually knowledgeable and are mature.

Some of these guys that posted here are very unknowledgeable and very immature.

[Richie2k6]

i respect you as a poster.

You are actually knowledgeable and are mature.

Some of these guys that posted here are very unknowledgeable and very immature.
:roll:

Are you trying to make me feel bad? Quit being an ass kisser for God's sake. When I say something like that, you take shots at me. When he says something like that, you tell him how much you respect him. Why don't you give him the same crap you gave me? Because you hold grudges against people that disagree with you. I'd like to see you engage in a debate with Jailblazers, but you can't, because you know he's right. However, if I were to say that exactly same thing, you'd disagree and start yelling at me.

[tmacyaokobe01]

did jail blazers say this debate is over i win?

No.

Did jail blazers say give up already T-Mac is a point forward?

No.

He respects other opinions something you should learn to do.

Instead of being a stubborn fool try listening you'll be a better person on your way.

[Richie2k6]

did jail blazers say this debate is over i win?

No.
Neither did I. Because we were never debating at first. I said something to start it off and you refused to reply.

He respects other opinions something you should learn to do.

Instead of being a stubborn fool try listening you'll be a better person on your way.
Oh yes, and you listen to everybody's opinions. Right. You take everything to heart and respect what everybody says. Yep. You're extremely respectful towards everybody's opinions. :rolleyes:

Let the thread die. Nobody cares anymore.

[tmacyaokobe01]

Neither did I. Because we were never debating at first. I said something to start it off and you refused to reply.

Oh yes, and you listen to everybody's opinions. Right. You take everything to heart and respect what everybody says. Yep. You're extremely respectful towards everybody's opinions. :rolleyes:

Let the thread die. Nobody cares anymore.
i was asking for others opinions yet you came crashing.

at least now i know who is a decent poster and who is knowledgeable and who isn't.

:rollingeyes:

[tmacyaokobe01]

hey idiots who think t-mac is a point forward

Jonathan Feigen says he isn't a point forward here.

http://blogs.chron.com/nba/2007/07/back_to_our_regularly_schedule.html
Jonathan,

Do you consider Mcgrady a point forward? I like to hear your opinion because you have a lot of knowledge.

(I would not so narrowly define him. He is a guard or forward who happens to be an outstanding passer. I don't feel anyone needs to be called a point-something because he passes well. -- Jonathan)

[Agent_Zero]

:roll: :roll: :roll: at this thread. The OP is an idiot. He just won't give up.

[Fudge]

:roll: @ actually asking him that question. get your dumbass outta here! :roll:

[tmacyaokobe01]

:roll: @ actually asking him that question. get your dumbass outta here! :roll:
first of all that wasn't me.

and lmao dude thats actually a decent question

good job being in denial.

[Richie2k6]

first of all that wasn't me.

and lmao dude thats actually a decent question

good job being in denial.
"Stubborn" "Immature" "Denial"

Stop being so hypocritial and stop using names I called you to refer to other people. I call you something and you begin to call others that. Use your own vocabulary.

And because some man says it, it's automatically true?

:oldlol:

[tmacyaokobe01]

that was a person from another board.

i think he wanted to end that discussion over there.

By asking him that.

He isn't considered a point forward on that board.

[tmacyaokobe01]

"Stubborn" "Immature" "Denial"

Stop being so hypocritial and stop using names I called you to refer to other people. I call you something and you begin to call others that. Use your own vocabulary.

And because some man says it, it's automatically true?

:oldlol:
Who else do you honestly want me to get?

Tracy McGrady himself?

I bet you'd still say hes a point forward.
:rollingeyes:

[Richie2k6]

Who else do you honestly want me to get?

Tracy McGrady himself?

I bet you'd still say hes a point forward.
:rollingeyes:
He would call himself a point forward. A point forward is someone who runs the offense, handles the ball a lot and has point guard characteristics. Leave it at that. And you said "for you idiots who say T-Mac is a point forward". I thought you said you were so mature that you could respect other people's opinions? Well Mr. Mature, stop calling us idiots because we have different opinions.

[tmacyaokobe01]

He would call himself a point forward. A point forward is someone who runs the offense, handles the ball a lot and has point guard characteristics. Leave it at that. And you said "for you idiots who say T-Mac is a point forward". I thought you said you were so mature that you could respect other people's opinions? Well Mr. Mature, stop calling us idiots because we have different opinions.
really?

have you ever heard Tracy McGrady ever call himself a point forward?

I've never heard him call him that.

I've just heard him call himself the playmaker of the team.

Thats it.

I do respect your opinion but i'm letting you know what a smart blogger thinks too.

[Richie2k6]

really?

have you ever heard Tracy McGrady ever call himself a point forward?

I've never heard him call him that.

I've just heard him call himself the playmaker of the team.

Thats it.

I do respect your opinion but i'm letting you know what a smart blogger thinks too.
He's never said he's a point forward. Yet he's never said he's not. He hasn't said anything other that he's the playmaker and lead facilitator. So saying he is a point forward is legit. You don't hear Kobe saying he's the best scorer outloud, but that doesn't mean he's not. You don't put that kind of ranking upon yourself - others do it for you. Kobe would never go to the media and say "I'm the best scorer in the NBA", at least not likely. He's better than that, and knows that extremely cocky to say, though it's true, it's just not right to say that about yourself. Same goes for McGrady.

[tmacyaokobe01]

He's never said he's a point forward. Yet he's never said he's not. He hasn't said anything other that he's the playmaker and lead facilitator. So saying he is a point forward is legit. You don't hear Kobe saying he's the best scorer outloud, but that doesn't mean he's not. You don't put that kind of ranking upon yourself - others do it for you. Kobe would never go to the media and say "I'm the best scorer in the NBA", at least not likely. He's better than that, and knows that extremely cocky to say, though it's true, it's just not right to say that about yourself. Same goes for McGrady.
Really?

Its cocky to call yourself a position?

Why did jalen rose call himself a point forward?

Basically every point forward has called themselves that.

You are getting pretty lame.

Jonathan Feigen clearly said that McGrady is not a point forward.

[Fudge]

How was I being in denial? Guy probably doesn't even know what that means.


Do you consider Mcgrady a point forward? I like to hear your opinion because you have a lot of knowledge.

Like, do you actually think we're retarded (kind of like you)?

Yeah, some other guy asked him that question. Nice. You're the only guy who sticks to peoples sacks and calls them knowledgeable after seeing a full scapped post. Nice, dexter.

[Richie2k6]

Really?

Its cocky to call yourself a position?
It's not neccessarily cocky, it's just that I don't even really think he cares what the hell people call him. He's a forward that has point guard characteristics. There's no 100% solid definition for it.

Basically every point forward has called themselves that.
And say it outloud to the media as much as you're implying?

Jonathan Feigen clearly said that McGrady is not a point forward.
That's one person. No analyst is perfect. I could go ask some other professional NBA journalist or whatever what they think, and they could say he is a point forward. Does that make them right? No. Stop saying "Jonathan Feigen said it" as if he's some kind of basketball God. That's one person.

[tmacyaokobe01]

How was I being in denial? Guy probably doesn't even know what that means.



Like, do you actually think we're retarded (kind of like you)?

Yeah, some other guy asked him that question. Nice. You're the only guy who sticks to peoples sacks and calls them knowledgeable after seeing a full scapped post. Nice, dexter.
if you go the link a guy named daddy asked him and i know who that guy is.

Jonathan,

Do you consider Mcgrady a point forward? I like to hear your opinion because you have a lot of knowledge.

(I would not so narrowly define him. He is a guard or forward who happens to be an outstanding passer. I don't feel anyone needs to be called a point-something because he passes well. -- Jonathan)

Posted by: Daddy at July 31, 2007 03:25 PM

[tmacyaokobe01]

It's not neccessarily cocky, it's just that I don't even really think he cares what the hell people call him. He's a forward that has point guard characteristics. There's no 100% solid definition for it.

And say it outloud to the media as much as you're implying?

That's one person. No analyst is perfect. I could go ask some other professional NBA journalist or whatever what they think, and they could say he is a point forward. Does that make them right? No. Stop saying "Jonathan Feigen said it" as if he's some kind of basketball God. That's one person.
Ok, Have you ever heard Kenny Smith, Tim Legler, Greg Anthony, Screamin A. Smith say that hes a point forward?

No, they all say that hes just a great playmaker.

[Richie2k6]

Ok, Have you ever heard Kenny Smith, Tim Legler, Greg Anthony, Screamin A. Smith say that hes a point forward?

No, they all say that hes just a great playmaker.
So what? Jyst because they haven't said it that doesn't mean they don't think it? Are you in their heads or something. Come on - smarten up. Just because they've never said it, that does not mean they don't think it. If somebody sat them down face to face and asked them, some of them would probably say he is. Again, just because they never said they think he is one, doesn't mean they don't think he is one.

Do you expect Stephen A. Smith to be doig an interview or recap about a game and suddenly go "Oh, by the way, I think McGrady is a point forward. I just wanted to get that out there to clear the air." That's stupid. Saying none of them think it because they've never said it is a completely flawed statement. Have you ever thought maybe they haven't been asked what they think? Have you ever thought maybe they have more important things to do than to analyze tape of McGrady and state whether or not he is one?

[tmacyaokobe01]

i've heard those guys say that LeBron is one.

why not t-mac ?

Because he isn't.

You can think whatever you want

but you've just been exposed.

[Rockets(T-mac)]

Ok, Have you ever heard Kenny Smith, Tim Legler, Greg Anthony, Screamin A. Smith say that hes a point forward?

No, they all say that hes just a great playmaker.
Have you heard them say that he isn't?
I have heard Mark Jackson say that Deron Williams is the 2 best point guard in the league is that true all of a sudden.

So what is Jonathan Feigen said does that mean it's true? Like Richie said thats one person, while on this board it like 10 people saying he is.

[tmacyaokobe01]

Have you heard them say that he isn't?
I have heard Mark Jackson say that Deron Williams is the 2 best point guard in the league is that true all of a sudden.

So what is Jonathan Feigen said does that mean it's true? Like Richie said thats one person, while on this board it like 10 people saying he is.
Jonathan Feigen is well known in houston.

He writes a lot of blogs.

If any of you were better then him or smarter then him you would be the one writing in houston chronicle not him.

[Rockets(T-mac)]

i've heard those guys say that LeBron is one.

why not t-mac ?

Because he isn't.

You can think whatever you want

but you've just been exposed.
Lebron is more hyped than T-mac ofcourse they will talk about him more what kind of logic is that?

[Richie2k6]

i've heard those guys say that LeBron is one.

why not t-mac ?

Because he isn't.

You can think whatever you want

but you've just been exposed.
That's bad logic. So if I say Kobe is a great scorer, and end my sentence right there, does that mean nobody else in the NBA is a great scorer except him, since I didn't mention anybody else? Seriously, that's 5 year old logic. "T-Mac isn't a point forward because they said Lebron was and they didn't meantion him."

Of course they didn't mention him because they were talking about Lebron.

[tmacyaokobe01]

Lebron is more hyped than T-mac ofcourse they will talk about him more what kind of logic is that?
if your more hyped your more of a position?

lol at that logic.
:oldlol:

[Rockets(T-mac)]

Jonathan Feigen is well known in houston.

He writes a lot of blogs.

If any of you were better then him or smarter then him you would be the one writing in houston chronicle not him.
Yeah so many people with high jobs like that say things that aren't alway true. Like I said Mark Jackson said that Deron Williams is the 2nd best PG in the league, is that true?

[tmacyaokobe01]

That's bad logic. So if I say Kobe is a great scorer, and end my sentence right there, does that mean nobody else in the NBA is a great scorer except him, since I didn't mention anybody else? Seriously, that's 5 year old logic. "T-Mac isn't a point forward because they said Lebron was and they didn't meantion him."

Of course they didn't mention him because they were talking about Lebron.
ok, then if they talk about T-mac they don't talk about him being a point forward.

I've never heard pippen, don nelson or any past point forward every call him one either.

Pippen has talked about point forwards in his blog and stuff.

[tmacyaokobe01]

Yeah so many people with high jobs like that say things that aren't alway true. Like I said Mark Jackson said that Deron Williams is the 2nd best PG in the league, is that true?
In his opinion that can be true

i think that hes the 3rd best pretty close.

Neither way being the best at something is an opinion defining someone's position is more of a fact.

[Richie2k6]

if your more hyped your more of a position?

lol at that logic.
:oldlol:
You need to use your brain. He was hyped more, so they were talking about him. Just because they say Lebron is and they don't mention a single word about McGrady, doesn't mean McGrady isn't one.

I'm seriously done here. It's like arguing with a broken record.

ok, then if they talk about T-mac they don't talk about him being a point forward.
Jesus... so what!? If you're talking about McGrady, do you automatically have to talk about his point forward characteristics? NO. I can be talking to a friend about how good Mcgrady is, and I don't say he's a point forward. Does that mean I don't think he is one? NO. It just means I didn't mention anything about point forwards all together.

[Rockets(T-mac)]

if your more hyped your more of a position?

lol at that logic.
:oldlol:
Did you understand my post I said they would talk about Lebron more than T-mac so they would discuss whether or not Lebron is a point forward and talk about him more in general than T-mac.

I agree with Richie we should let this thread die again.

[Mayweather]

Neither way being the best at something is an opinion defining someone's position is more of a fact.

Positions are not necessarily a fact. Look at Tim Duncan. He's listed as a Foward - Center on NBA.com. In the 90s, Tim Duncan would be a center, no doubt.

Positions are not so clear cut anymore.

I say Tmac is a point foward.

[Dbrog]

He might have been a point forward before due to the simple fact that he had no good PG's on his team. This season however, you will not see it nearly as much if at all depending on the new coaching system.

[Jailblazers7]

i've heard those guys say that LeBron is one.

why not t-mac ?

Because he isn't.

You can think whatever you want

but you've just been exposed.

One of the reason is because Lebron is the media darling and you are talking about ESPN analysts who probably have a clause in there contract from ESPN that if they talk about Lebron 75% of the time they get a bonus or something. T-Mac has also been hurt the past couple of year which has taken him off the radar a bit. The Rockets never realized their potential or made much noise in the West becuase of his and Yao's injuries and Dirk/Nash were stealing all the headlines and air time. You should make you conclusion on a player based on your own thought and analysis not going off what writers and tv analysts. They can help shape and support your logic but it shouldnt be the backbone of your arguement.

[tmacyaokobe01]

Positions are not necessarily a fact. Look at Tim Duncan. He's listed as a Foward - Center on NBA.com. In the 90s, Tim Duncan would be a center, no doubt.

Positions are not so clear cut anymore.

I say Tmac is a point foward.
Then Duncan would be called a Forward/Center

That is a Fact.

If your talking about Natural Positions then its arguable.

[tmacyaokobe01]

this thread is over.

Richie i understand your argument and i respect same with you Rockets(T-Mac).

Fudge you just suck so forget you.

[Rockets(T-mac)]

this thread is over.

Richie i understand your argument and i respect same with you Rockets(T-Mac).

Fudge you just suck so forget you.
You just change your mind out of no where.:rollingeyes:

[tmacyaokobe01]

You just change your mind out of no where.:rollingeyes:
i'm just letting this thread die now.

I still don't think hes a point forward.

[tmacyaokobe01]

its laughable seeing that fudge is a mod yet he basically breaks all the rules of being a mod.

Especially since he has no facts to even prove his case he just personally attacks because hes by far the biggest idiot ever.

[tmacyaokobe01]

rules that fudge breaks

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=50453

Only people who are mature, calm, cool-headed, intelligent, in control of themselves and friendly will be considered.
not at all.

People who constantly fight, toss lots of insults around, go nuts every now and then, etc. won't be.

yet thats what fudge does

basically he breaks every rule.

[Fudge]

:roll:

Are you serious? Who should take over? Tell me that. You? Silly of you.

[tmacyaokobe01]

:roll:

Are you serious? Who should take over? Tell me that. You? Silly of you.
anybody who is smart and calm.

something you need to work on.

[Fudge]

How can anybody be "smart" or "calm" when you deny everyone's opinions (Remember, no facts here)? Tell me that. Another question, are you smart? Get the **** outta here.

[tmacyaokobe01]

How can anybody be "smart" or "calm" when you deny everyone's opinions (Remember, no facts here)? Tell me that. Another question, are you smart? Get the **** outta here.
and how many facts have you brought up?
0.

i've at least brought up a Fact.

All you have been doing is personally attack since you know you have a lack of knowledge.

again with you curses.

Its really starting to show that anybody could probably be a mod now.

[Richie2k6]

Fudge is a great mod... the only reason he isn't calm right now is because you're annoying him. He's a Rockets fan that knows a lot about them. If you were to actually get into a mature and meaningful debate with him, I'm sure you'd realize that.

[tmacyaokobe01]

Fudge is a great mod... the only reason he isn't calm right now is because you're annoying him. He's a Rockets fan that knows a lot about them. If you were to actually get into a mature and meaningful debate with him, I'm sure you'd realize that.
i'm annoying him how?

the first time i debated with him he still cursed at me.

not showing me anything except for his ability to curse.

[Fudge]

Seriously, (i'll try to be calm), which "facts" did you actually spit out? Tell me. Can't say one, prob.

[tmacyaokobe01]

Seriously, (i'll try to be calm), which "facts" did you actually spit out? Tell me. Can't say one, prob.
is this enough?

T-Mac is not the primary ball-handler?

i've said more then you could probably ever think of.

[Fudge]

is this enough?

T-Mac is not the primary ball-handler?

i've said more then you could probably ever think of.
Why do you think every little piece you say is right? That? That's just plain garbage, resembling to every thing you've said on ISH.

If you put it that way, LeBron shouldn't be on your list, first of all. Hughes runs most of the point, along with Danny Gibson doing part of it. He isn't the primary ball-handler is he? Nope. So yeah, disclude McGrady all you want, don't forget to take off LeBron.

[tmacyaokobe01]

Why do you think every little piece you say is right? That? That's just plain garbage, resembling to every thing you've said on ISH.

If you put it that way, LeBron shouldn't be on your list, first of all. Hughes runs most of the point, along with Danny Gibson doing part of it. He isn't the primary ball-handler is he? Nope. So yeah, disclude McGrady all you want, don't forget to take off LeBron.
LeBron is.

he brings it frequently

as for McGrady is more like Rarely.

[Fudge]

You obviously don't know nothing about McGrady or the Rockets in general.

Is that all you can really say? He isn't the primary ball-handler? He rarely brings it up? I'll take those like you really mean it. Talk about limited basketball knowledge.

[Richie2k6]

LeBron is.

he brings it frequently

as for McGrady is more like Rarely.
For the last time, it does not matter how often you bring the ball up at all. It is completely irrelevant; stop saying that. It's the point guard's job to bring up for the court, not a forward's. Stop saying McGrady/Lebron does/doesn't bring itup the court, it does not matter at all.

[tmacyaokobe01]

You obviously don't know nothing about McGrady or the Rockets in general.

Is that all you can really say? He isn't the primary ball-handler? He rarely brings it up? I'll take those like you really mean it. Talk about limited basketball knowledge.
you honestly have a lack of knowledge.

:roll:

i'm not gonna debate with a tool like yourself.

[Fudge]

Surprised. That's all you can say right? You can't debate with me? Because you truly can't. Actually, you can't debate with anyone. What kind of facts do you bring up? Those nutty one-liners? similiar to yes or no question, right? "Oh, he isn't the primary ball-handler; only rarely" And your saying I have a lack of knowledge. You probably won't read this, like always. Kep saying "I'm not gonna both arguing with you tool". You'll look like a complete imbecile.

Face it, go back to watching your Anime asian crap. It's obvious that you need FSN SouthWest to watch Rocket games, not ASIATV. Get the **** outta here with your nonsense.

[tmacyaokobe01]

Surprised. That's all you can say right? You can't debate with me? Because you truly can't. Actually, you can't debate with anyone. What kind of facts do you bring up? Those nutty one-liners? similiar to yes or no question, right? "Oh, he isn't the primary ball-handler; only rarely" And your saying I have a lack of knowledge. You probably won't read this, like always. Kep saying "I'm not gonna both arguing with you tool". You'll look like a complete imbecile.

Face it, go back to watching your Anime asian crap. It's obvious that you need FSN SouthWest to watch Rocket games, not ASIATV. Get the **** outta here with your nonsense.
i'm not asian stupid :roll:

Jonathan Feigen > Fudge

[tmacyaokobe01]

my guess is that you hate yao ming as well right?

[Fudge]

Nonetheless, it's just dreadful to see an american with this limited basketball knowledge.

Do you anything about the game of basketball? Tracy McGrady who is so-called your favorite player? Or are you just gonna respond by saying "I'm not gonna waste my time arguing with this tool" which you normally say considering your lack of vocabulary. Stupid bandwagoner thinking they're the ****. You don't belong on ISH, go back to asking question to that Fagman dude. :oldlol:

[tmacyaokobe01]

Nonetheless, it's just dreadful to see an american with this limited basketball knowledge.

Do you anything about the game of basketball? Tracy McGrady who is so-called your favorite player? Or are you just gonna respond by saying "I'm not gonna waste my time arguing with this tool" which you normally say considering your lack of vocabulary. Stupid bandwagoner thinking they're the ****. You don't belong on ISH, go back to asking question to that Fagman dude. :oldlol:
:roll: at you.

the dude is known in houston.

He is much more credible then anyone here. I bet if Tracy McGrady or Yao or anybody else said that Mcgrady is not a point forward you would still say he is.

your just refuting to open your eyes.

[Fudge]

Credible? Just by looking at his response, no wonder you get seeked my unknowledgeable failures - similar to yourself.

Wanna debate? Pick any topic about him (tracy), any, besides this one because it's total nonsense. Now don't give yourself a pat on the back and say "you've owned me" which you didn't. Any topic you want, kiddo. Let's see who'll be exposed as an idiot, wait you already are. Nevermind.

[Richie2k6]

I thought you said you were going to let this thread die... so let it die.

[tmacyaokobe01]

I thought you said you were going to let this thread die... so let it die.
as soon as You all realize that if you post against knowledgeable people ClutchFans you all would lose.

JailBlazers seems to be the only one that would be an actually argument towards them.

[Dodonpa]

whats the point of arguing about if tmac is a point forward or not?
can you accurately define point forward?
and why are 2 rockets fan arguing with each other?

and lastly, why did u triple post? :confusedshrug:

[Selenium]

The sole purpose of this guy's life seems to be to argue that Tracy McGrady isn't a point-forward.

[Richie2k6]

as soon as You all realize that if you post against knowledgeable people ClutchFans you all would lose.

JailBlazers seems to be the only one that would be an actually argument towards them.
I'd actually like to debate with some of the people there. Because I can guarantee they are smarter than you for the most part. Sad thing is, I'm not a Rockets fan, at all. Insidehoops is good enough for me. Now stop bragging about how smart ClutchFans people are and just stop posting already. Nobody cares about this thread anymore. Give it up for God's sake - it's over. Move on in life.

[tmacyaokobe01]

i just wanted fudge to realize that he would be no match against True Rocket and T-Mac Fans.

Richie, i'll let it die now.

But this thread is ended in favor of me. Over. :D

[tmacyaokobe01]

whats the point of arguing about if tmac is a point forward or not?
can you accurately define point forward?
and why are 2 rockets fan arguing with each other?

and lastly, why did u triple post? :confusedshrug:
Scottie Pippen is the definition of point forward.

[brantonli]

as soon as You all realize that if you post against knowledgeable people ClutchFans you all would lose.

JailBlazers seems to be the only one that would be an actually argument towards them.

Oh no, because Hayesfans and durvasa agree with you means htat we are all doomed!

We've got our opinion, you have yours, besides, point forward is a matter of your own personal decision, and until the day NBA issues a decree that defines point forward that will out McGrady, I'll continue to think McGrady as a point forward.

[tmacyaokobe01]

Oh no, because Hayesfans and durvasa agree with you means htat we are all doomed!

We've got our opinion, you have yours, besides, point forward is a matter of your own personal decision, and until the day NBA issues a decree that defines point forward that will out McGrady, I'll continue to think McGrady as a point forward.
Finally a decent post.

So far everybody has had a smarter logic then fudge in this discussion. :roll:

[brantonli]

sheesh, here you go. http://bbs.clutchfans.net/showthread.php?t=133051

[tmacyaokobe01]

sheesh, here you go. http://bbs.clutchfans.net/showthread.php?t=133051
yeah, its too bad my account lost rights.

I would be easily voting no.

[Fudge]

sheesh, here you go. http://bbs.clutchfans.net/showthread.php?t=133051

:roll: Nice. :roll:

[Fudge]

umm... you have been cursing in all of my thread since the start.

You have 0 logic and 0 credibility.

everybody else at least has some.
So, how's that logic when I haven't said anything? Obviously everybody has some, I do to, but everyone took the credentials that I was going to say, except putting it into their own words. Yeah, let's see yours, dex. We seriously wanna see.

:roll:

[tmacyaokobe01]

by the way to let you know in clutch fans.

Most of the people who don't care don't think he is a point forward.

like HayesFan and a lot of Yao Fans.

[tmacyaokobe01]

Refute? wtf. That has to be a somewhat mishap while you're typing or is it a typical douche term idiots use?

Answer this: Did you create some sort of post where it justifies McGrady being a Point Forward? If so, what are they? Because everytime I do ask for it, you go on delay and you try to create some unintended humour (which isn't funny at all).

So where's your logic? What's the post number, Dex?

:roll::roll:
saying that T-Mac is not the primary ball-handler is enough for a person like you.

[Dodonpa]

If I had an username there, I'd vote
"WHO GIVES A CRAP?!" too.
Seriously, who gives a damn?
It's not worth arguing for, because it doesn't change anything.
There is no position to compete with, it doesn't change his game, NOTHING.

DUMB AS HELL, who had to come up with a point forward thing anyways.

[tmacyaokobe01]

If I had an username there, I'd vote
"WHO GIVES A CRAP?!" too.
Seriously, who gives a damn?
It's not worth arguing for, because it doesn't change anything.
There is no position to compete with, it doesn't change his game, NOTHING.

DUMB AS HELL, who had to come up with a point forward thing anyways.
Don Nelson created that position.

You only use a point forward when your PG sucks.

Like the lakers with Odom and LeBron for the Cavs.

[tmacyaokobe01]

A dumbass named tmacyaokobe01.

What kind of username is that anyway? Are those the top 3 players you actually like or the players you have no further clue about whatsoever. Seems like it.

:roll: :roll: :roll:
:roll:

i have no clue?

First of all, I know more about mcgrady then you.

So does richie probably.

And why do you care about Yao you hate him right? like you hate all asian people correct?

[Fudge]

First of all, I know more about mcgrady then you.
Right. :rollingeyes:


What was his career high for total points?

Who (which team) was he versing that game?

How many All Nba Teams was he in?

What year did they particularly started calling him T-Mac?


This shouldn't take no more than 3 minutes at least, unless like you've claimed, you know more about T-Mac than me. Don't even try to switch the subject right now, and don't even say this is a waste of your time. Plus, don't even google search none of this. This is just pure common sense if you're a hardknock T-Mac fan. I wanna see this.

:roll:

[tmacyaokobe01]

Right. :rollingeyes:

What was his careeh high for total points?

Who (which team) was he versing that game?

How many All Nba Teams was he in?

What year did they particularly started calling him T-Mac?

This shouldn't take no more than 3 minutes at least, unless like you've claimed, you know more about T-Mac than me. Don't even try to switch the subject right now, and don't even say this is a waste of your time. Plus, don't even google search none of this. This is just pure common sense if you're a hardknock T-Mac fan. I wanna see this.

:roll:
career high = 62
playing the wizards

6 all-nba teams

[Fudge]

Fascinating. Waiting for the last one.

Anyway, i'm seriously done with this. And you think I give a rats ass if you call me the worst MOD on ISH? Frankly, I don't give a ****. So, yeah do what you were willing to doa dn put me on your ignore list. I'll be the happiest man in the world.

[Clutch_City]

What are you trying to prove again, tmacyaokobe? You're making yourself look like a complete idiot with this nonsense. Stop posting on ISH or on any forum for that matter, if you're still coming up with crap like this. Please and Thanks.

[Fudge]

Clutch sighting? Never seen you in like a month, dude. Sadly, yes, imbecile created another thread.

[Clutch_City]

Busy like crazy for the last 3 weeks or so. Barely been on this past month.

Yeah, this thread should be perma closed.

[Skywalker]

:roll:

[Psileas]

Yes, he clearly is.

[AppleNader]

Yes, he clearly is.

better than Odom in point forwardness

[Lebron23]

Yeah

[elementally morale]

He is a point backward.

[devin112]

Pippen, Grant Hill, LeBron, Paul Pressey, Penny Hardaway

Penny played point guard....

[devin112]

nm

[Whoah10115]

Yes, he clearly is.


Was this sarcastic? I'm curious.

[Real Men Wear Green]

Yeah
Why did you dig up a useless thread from 2009?