Are the Jordan rules overrated?

[Duderonomy]

In the late 80's we are dealing with grown men and they didn't allow guards and sf's in the paint. If Jordan played like Reggie Miller or Curry he wouldn't get hard fouled. Is that such a crime against the game?

[Airupthere]

Yeah, if only Reggie played in the 80s/90s he would be untouched torching the defense with his 3 pointers. Such a simple solution.

[Kblaze8855]

I would say more overblown. The Pistons weren’t doing anything tactically that anyone in the league couldn’t come up with. They had more physical people as the last line of defense but that’s about it. And even that wasn’t always the case. There were other really bruising teams they just don’t get talked about.

[tontoz]

It was just a marketing thing, pretending that they had some scheme to deal with Jordan. In reality they just beat the crap out of him. They did have a lot of good defenders but ultimately it was just beat him up knowing the refs arent going to call every foul.

[warriorfan]

It gets done in all sports. Setting the tone of the game. Play super physically off the get go and basically dare the officials to blow a whistle/throw a flag on every play. They won’t and then you have established how the game is going to be officiated to an extent.

[3ba11]

In the late 80's we are dealing with grown men and they didn't allow guards and sf's in the paint. If Jordan played like Reggie Miller or Curry he wouldn't get hard fouled. Is that such a crime against the game?


The Jordan Rules weren't overrated - no player in history was treated this way:

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/zWJHnzvF_r4


But it's true Jordan didn't start beating the Pistons until he realized that he could just shoot over their defenses and packed paints.

If you watch the 89' and 90' ECF, you'll see Jordan taking it personally that the Pistons think they can beat him up in the paint - his competitive fire worked against him here as he tried to OVERCOME that and show that he can overpower them

this was a massive mistake that caused 2 losses in 89' and 90' - yes his cast was drastically overmatched but he was still good enough to beat them by altering his strategy to a jumpshot strategy like he did from 91' onwards against the Pistons or ANY physical team that shut down the paint.

[ShawkFactory]

The Jordan Rules weren't overrated .

I am SHOCKED that you feel this way :lol

[3ba11]

I am SHOCKED that you feel this way :lol


Show me where Bill Russell of Hakeem said their intention was to hurt Wilt or Shaq on every play:

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/zWJHnzvF_r4


Only Jordan was treated like that.. :confusedshrug:

So he faced the toughest path by facing unprecedented physicality AND defeating max defensive attention (carrying scoring load)

[Full Court]

Show me where Bill Russell of Hakeem said their intention was to hurt Wilt or Shaq on every play:

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/zWJHnzvF_r4


Only Jordan was treated like that.. :confusedshrug:

So he faced the toughest path by facing unprecedented physicality AND defeating max defensive attention (carrying scoring load)

This is correct. No one can show anyone other than Jordan who got that kind of treatment. Even with the whole hack-a-Shaq thing, it was just to send him to the free throw line, not to hurt him.

Jordan was the most unguardable player ever. One of many reasons why he's consensus GOAT.

[ShawkFactory]

Show me where Bill Russell of Hakeem said their intention was to hurt Wilt or Shaq on every play:

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/zWJHnzvF_r4


Only Jordan was treated like that.. :confusedshrug:

So he faced the toughest path by facing unprecedented physicality AND defeating max defensive attention (carrying scoring load)

Wilt and Shaq were respectively bigger than Russell and Hakeem so that analogy doesn’t even make sense.

What you’re insinuating is that a team using physicality to attempt to defeat a perimeter player started with Jordan. Sheesh and you talk about Lebron fans being fooled by the media :lol

If that’s what you think then go for it.

[Axe]

Is that why they changed the rules so he can dominate? I mean he got six rings after the implementation of flagrant foul in the early 90s. :confusedshrug:

[Full Court]

Wilt and Shaq were respectively bigger than Russell and Hakeem so that analogy doesn’t even make sense.

What you’re insinuating is that a team using physicality to attempt to defeat a perimeter player started with Jordan. Sheesh and you talk about Lebron fans being fooled by the media :lol

If that’s what you think then go for it.

They started taking it to the next level. Using physicality to a further extent than it had been before. If you want to think otherwise, then go for it.

[3ba11]

Wilt and Shaq were respectively bigger than Russell and Hakeem so that analogy doesn’t even make sense.





I see what you did there - a clever deflection

However, the point was that the "Jordan Rules" = hurt Michael, according to Salley, Rodman and Isiah in that video posted earlier

No other player dealt with that kind of physicality, which made Jordan's goat scoring requirement of defeating max defensive attention (carrying scoring load) that much harder.. Any of today's players that faced such thorny path would run away to form super-teams.. We saw Lebron run away from underdog fossils that were 32-34 (KG/Pierce/Allen), while MJ stayed and defeated a prime core that was 27-29 (Isiah/Dumars/Rodman) and trying to hurt him (Jordan Rules).

Btw, the ringleader of the "Jordan Rules" was Isiah (a smaller player), while Aguirre, Mahorn and Rodman had smaller hands, shoulders and possibly length or height than Jordan.






What you’re insinuating is that a team trying to hurt a perimeter player started and ended with Jordan.





fixed

[Full Court]

Sometimes I'm astounded at the things people argue about on here. Like trying to challenge what OP said when they can see it with their own eyes if they want to.

So OP posted videos and interviews backing up what he said. If this was such a common thing and happened to other people, all you guys have to do is show someone talking about doing it to someone other than Jordan. It would be that simple to win the argument - if you could.

Lol. 20 years after retirement, Jordan is still triggering people. :lol

[Axe]

I see what you did there - a clever deflection

However, the point was that the "Jordan Rules" = hurt Michael, according to Salley, Rodman and Isiah in that video posted earlier

No other player dealt with that kind of physicality, which made Jordan's goat scoring requirement of defeating max defensive attention (carrying scoring load) that much harder.. Any of today's players that faced such thorny path would run away to form super-teams.. We saw Lebron run away from underdog fossils that were 32-34 (KG/Pierce/Allen), while MJ stayed and defeated a prime core that was 27-29 (Isiah/Dumars/Rodman) and trying to hurt him (Jordan Rules).

Btw, the ringleader of the "Jordan Rules" was Isiah (a smaller player), while Aguirre, Mahorn and Rodman had smaller hands, shoulders and possibly length or height than Jordan.






fixed
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSox4GT9JBG439wSV-lbkE5MxK4XqxK_FHrgg&usqp=CAU

[ShawkFactory]

They started taking it to the next level. Using physicality to a further extent than it had been before. If you want to think otherwise, then go for it.

Ooooooo repeating my words at the end to make your point. Very edgy and original :lol

You don’t think that maybe…teams were physical before but because it was Jordan (the media darling; yes those existed before Lebron), that maybe it just was talked about a little more?

Or nah?

[hateraid]

Pistons plated physical defense. They called it the Jordan Rules to hype the rivalry in the media.

[3ba11]

Pistons plated physical defense. They called it the Jordan Rules to hype the rivalry in the media.


If everyone does it, then where are the examples of defenders saying the intention was the physically hurt someone when the drive the lane?

Isiah was a little guy but the ringleader of the "Jordan Rules", WHICH THEY DEFINE as hurting MJ, aka "The Jordan Rules" = hurting MJ (video and audio here (https://www.youtube.com/shorts/zWJHnzvF_r4))

[Full Court]

Ooooooo repeating my words at the end to make your point. Very edgy and original :lol

You don’t think that maybe…teams were physical before but because it was Jordan (the media darling; yes those existed before Lebron), that maybe it just was talked about a little more?

Or nah?

OP provided evidence to support his claim.

You provided none to support yours.

:confusedshrug:

[Axe]

Larry bird also played against the brute physicality of the pistons bt but did not whine to the refs about it. :sleeping

[ShawkFactory]

OP provided evidence to support his claim.

You provided none to support yours.

:confusedshrug:

Dude the thread is about the Jordan rules being overrated :lol

[Full Court]

Larry bird also played against the brute physicality of the pistons bt but did not whine to the refs about it. :sleeping

Says the guy who incessantly whines to the mods.


:roll:

You can't make this stuff up.

[Full Court]

Dude the thread is about the Jordan rules being overrated :lol

My mistake. 3ball is not the OP. Let me rephrase.

3ball provided evidence to support his claim.

You provided none to support yours.

:confusedshrug:

[Axe]

Oh look, someone is so butthurt that he has to attempt at derailing this thread also. Lmao.

[Full Court]

Oh look, someone is so butthurt that he has to attempt at derailing this thread also. Lmao.

This thread just got a whooooooooooole lot stinkier.

Stinky stink boy.

So stinky.

Utter stink.

[Axe]

And quotes me to prove he's always butthurt by the ugly truth. :confusedshrug: :roll:

[ShawkFactory]

My mistake. 3ball is not the OP. Let me rephrase.

3ball provided evidence to support his claim.

You provided none to support yours.

:confusedshrug:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oCu5rO2ETvs

The Pistons being physical (or teams..lets be honest) didn't start with Michael Jordan weirdo. Bird talking about bringing his hard hat to a series against them is something I guess you don't remember?

[Full Court]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oCu5rO2ETvs

The Pistons being physical (or teams..lets be honest) didn't start with Michael Jordan weirdo. Bird talking about bringing his hard hat to a series against them is something I guess you don't remember?

You're trying to change the debate. Nobody's saying flagrant fouls only ever happened to MJ. Show me where a team admits they specifically targeted another player for the purpose of physically hurting them.

[ShawkFactory]

You're trying to change the debate. Nobody's saying flagrant fouls only ever happened to MJ. Show me where a team admits they specifically targeted another player for the purpose of physically hurting them.

And the entire point (check the reason for the OP)..is that this idea was overblown and not as rare as people think it is. People got knocked the hell out when the went into the lane. That's literally what happened in the NBA up until maybe 20 years ago.

Jordan was the golden boy and he decided to keep doing it. So big men got intentional. You don't think Nate Thurmond and Elvin Hayes didn't do the same shit with guards who tested them?

It's a nice story and all but it's only a unique story because it's Jordan.

[Full Court]

And the entire point (check the reason for the OP)..is that this idea was overblown and not as rare as people think it is. People got knocked the hell out when the went into the lane. That's literally what happened in the NBA up until maybe 20 years ago.

Jordan was the golden boy and he decided to keep doing it. So big men got intentional. You don't think Nate Thurmond and Elvin Hayes didn't do the same shit with guards who tested them?

It's a nice story and all but it's only a unique story because it's Jordan.

Yes.....with Jordan.

[ShawkFactory]

Yes.....with Jordan.

It was his fault. He's not some victim that overcame the odds.

[hateraid]

If everyone does it, then where are the examples of defenders saying the intention was the physically hurt someone when the drive the lane?

Isiah was a little guy but the ringleader of the "Jordan Rules", WHICH THEY DEFINE as hurting MJ, aka "The Jordan Rules" = hurting MJ (video and audio here (https://www.youtube.com/shorts/zWJHnzvF_r4))

Pistons plated physical on everyone. Jordan got the most rattled by it. So the media exploited it

They played the same type D on Barkley. It's wasn't exclusively a Jordan thing. Guys like you just eat it up

[3ba11]

They played the same type D on Barkley. It's wasn't exclusively a Jordan thing. Guys like you just eat it up


Jordan Rules = hurt MJ

that's what Isiah, Salley and Rodman said in the video

They never said that about Barkley or had any "Barkley Rules" to hurt him

[Full Court]

It was his fault. He's not some victim that overcame the odds.

I don't think anyone's complaining that he's some kind of victim. Rather, it's a testament to just how unstoppable the guy was that they had to resort to that.

[Full Court]

Jordan Rules = hurt MJ

that's what Isiah, Salley and Rodman said in the video

They never said that about Barkley or had any "Barkley Rules" to hurt him

Yes, this is exactly my point. All the people trying to argue against you have to do is show one single video where someone says they were doing that to someone other than Jordan. One single video.

Yet, they can't....

Very strange.

[ShawkFactory]

I don't think anyone's complaining that he's some kind of victim. Rather, it's a testament to just how unstoppable the guy was that they had to resort to that.

Again…this happened to guards all the time when they tried getting their money in the paint. People talked more about it because it was Jordan but he wasn’t the first or the last to deal with this.

[Full Court]

Again…this happened to guards all the time when they tried getting their money in the paint. People talked more about it because it was Jordan but he wasn’t the first or the last to deal with this.

You can keep repeating the same thing over and over again, but you have yet to back it up with a concrete statement like 3ball did.

Positing nebulous generalities does not win you an argument.

[ShawkFactory]

You can keep repeating the same thing over and over again, but you have yet to back it up with a concrete statement like 3ball did.

Positing nebulous generalities does not win you an argument.

The specificity of the statement by a couple Pistons players is tough to equal. Doesn’t mean that the general sentiment isn’t there. I’ve shown you that physicality has always existed. Particularly with the Pistons.

Can you find me quotes of black guys in the 60s telling the press that Jerry West would just be another good player if he was black? If you can’t, should we assume Larry was the first white player to have black players be skeptical and/or threatened by him as it pertains to his media coverage?

I’ll use 3balls favorite analogy: Rodney King. Do we think that he was the first black kid to get beat on by cops? Or was it just the most enormously broadcasted case to that point?

You’re being predictably dense so that’s fine.

[SATAN]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oCu5rO2ETvs

The Pistons being physical (or teams..lets be honest) didn't start with Michael Jordan weirdo. Bird talking about bringing his hard hat to a series against them is something I guess you don't remember?

He wasn't even born by then lol

[jlip]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mUzjnnVUXmE&t=337s

Isiah clearly thinks the "Jordan Rules" were overrated. Yeah. It's Isiah talking, and obviously he's biased, but I loved his explanation. Some key statements from the section on the Jordan Rules (5:37-15:57)...

@5:45- "We had rules for everybody... We had rules for Magic. We had rules for Bird. We had rules for Kareem."

For the next roughly five minutes or so Isiah proceeds to explain the Xs and Os of the defensive strategy known as the "Jordan Rules", which in summary was to take away MJ's right hand and force him left into a double team. As a volume shooter MJ was reluctant to pass, and the Pistons' "analytics" determined that MJ shot a lower fg% going left than going right, and that even if he did pass the ball, the pass would be in the air allowing them to recover defensively. If he beat the trap going left, then they would foul him to put him on the line as opposed to giving up an easy sure two points from a dunk. That was the "Jordan Rules" in a nutshell.

@ 11:28- "When we would foul him [MJ] and put him on the foul line, he would cry... I was getting real fouls too. Wait a minute. It wasn't like he was the only one getting real fouls. Back then, everybody was getting fouled. McHale snatched Rambis out of the air. Bird was firing on Dr. J. I'm sorry...Dr. J was firing on Bird."

@13:03- “Cartwright, He throw some bows. He caught me. I ain't gon' lie. Yeah. Horace Grant was hitting me pretty hard coming down the lane. So they [The Bulls] was laying wood man. I mean, they was laying hard wood. But Jordan, he’s the only one still crying today. 'They hit me hard, they fouled hard, they was dirty, look what they did."


@13:26- "They show you a few video clips and tell the world this was how they played. They’ll never show you the game... Because they've got to keep this thing going. But show how we really played. Everybody got fouled. “There isn't a guy during that time got hit harder and more times than Isiah Thomas driving down the lane. I got the scars for it. But I ain’t ever cry. I just got up and went to the foul line. But he [Jordan] went to the league office, they wrote newspaper articles about it, you’re sitting here talking about the Jordan rules. Hey man, we had Kareem rules, we had Magic rules. … So don’t make it sound like it was something really special for him. We had a defensive philosophy for everybody we played against.”

[hateraid]

Jordan Rules = hurt MJ

that's what Isiah, Salley and Rodman said in the video

They never said that about Barkley or had any "Barkley Rules" to hurt him

So when Laimbeer put a flagrant on Barkley he wants trying to hurt him? Lolol, you clearly didn't watch in the 90s

[Full Court]

The specificity of the statement by a couple Pistons players is tough to equal. Doesn’t mean that the general sentiment isn’t there. I’ve shown you that physicality has always existed. Particularly with the Pistons.

Can you find me quotes of black guys in the 60s telling the press that Jerry West would just be another good player if he was black? If you can’t, should we assume Larry was the first white player to have black players be skeptical and/or threatened by him as it pertains to his media coverage?

I’ll use 3balls favorite analogy: Rodney King. Do we think that he was the first black kid to get beat on by cops? Or was it just the most enormously broadcasted case to that point?

You’re being predictably dense so that’s fine.

You are reeeeeaaaaaaaaaaally reaching trying to equate this to Rodney King. Lol. That's not even apples to oranges. More like apples to John Deere tractors.

[paksat]

the problem is the refs were not allowing anyone to even touch him

so they basically said, "ok welp since the whole things a sham, we're gonna give him sham defense."

[ShawkFactory]

You are reeeeeaaaaaaaaaaally reaching trying to equate this to Rodney King. Lol. That's not even apples to oranges. More like apples to John Deere tractors.

It was analogy that 3ball made in the other thread.

Even if we want to ignore that one, my point remains the same.

[tpols]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mUzjnnVUXmE&t=337s

Isiah clearly thinks the "Jordan Rules" were overrated. Yeah. It's Isiah talking, and obviously he's biased, but I loved his explanation. Some key statements from the section on the Jordan Rules (5:37-15:57)...

@5:45- "We had rules for everybody... We had rules for Magic. We had rules for Bird. We had rules for Kareem."

For the next roughly five minutes or so Isiah proceeds to explain the Xs and Os of the defensive strategy known as the "Jordan Rules", which in summary was to take away MJ's right hand and force him left into a double team. As a volume shooter MJ was reluctant to pass, and the Pistons' "analytics" determined that MJ shot a lower fg% going left than going right, and that even if he did pass the ball, the pass would be in the air allowing them to recover defensively. If he beat the trap going left, then they would foul him to put him on the line as opposed to giving up an easy sure two points from a dunk. That was the "Jordan Rules" in a nutshell.

@ 11:28- "When we would foul him [MJ] and put him on the foul line, he would cry... I was getting real fouls too. Wait a minute. It wasn't like he was the only one getting real fouls. Back then, everybody was getting fouled. McHale snatched Rambis out of the air. Bird was firing on Dr. J. I'm sorry...Dr. J was firing on Bird."

@13:03- “Cartwright, He throw some bows. He caught me. I ain't gon' lie. Yeah. Horace Grant was hitting me pretty hard coming down the lane. So they [The Bulls] was laying wood man. I mean, they was laying hard wood. But Jordan, he’s the only one still crying today. 'They hit me hard, they fouled hard, they was dirty, look what they did."


@13:26- "They show you a few video clips and tell the world this was how they played. They’ll never show you the game... Because they've got to keep this thing going. But show how we really played. Everybody got fouled. “There isn't a guy during that time got hit harder and more times than Isiah Thomas driving down the lane. I got the scars for it. But I ain’t ever cry. I just got up and went to the foul line. But he [Jordan] went to the league office, they wrote newspaper articles about it, you’re sitting here talking about the Jordan rules. Hey man, we had Kareem rules, we had Magic rules. … So don’t make it sound like it was something really special for him. We had a defensive philosophy for everybody we played against.”

Larry Bird explained the difference between hard fouls and trying to maim somebody Vietnam style.


https://youtu.be/NVAwV880RMo

[hateraid]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mUzjnnVUXmE&t=337s

Isiah clearly thinks the "Jordan Rules" were overrated. Yeah. It's Isiah talking, and obviously he's biased, but I loved his explanation. Some key statements from the section on the Jordan Rules (5:37-15:57)...

@5:45- "We had rules for everybody... We had rules for Magic. We had rules for Bird. We had rules for Kareem."

For the next roughly five minutes or so Isiah proceeds to explain the Xs and Os of the defensive strategy known as the "Jordan Rules", which in summary was to take away MJ's right hand and force him left into a double team. As a volume shooter MJ was reluctant to pass, and the Pistons' "analytics" determined that MJ shot a lower fg% going left than going right, and that even if he did pass the ball, the pass would be in the air allowing them to recover defensively. If he beat the trap going left, then they would foul him to put him on the line as opposed to giving up an easy sure two points from a dunk. That was the "Jordan Rules" in a nutshell.

@ 11:28- "When we would foul him [MJ] and put him on the foul line, he would cry... I was getting real fouls too. Wait a minute. It wasn't like he was the only one getting real fouls. Back then, everybody was getting fouled. McHale snatched Rambis out of the air. Bird was firing on Dr. J. I'm sorry...Dr. J was firing on Bird."

@13:03- “Cartwright, He throw some bows. He caught me. I ain't gon' lie. Yeah. Horace Grant was hitting me pretty hard coming down the lane. So they [The Bulls] was laying wood man. I mean, they was laying hard wood. But Jordan, he’s the only one still crying today. 'They hit me hard, they fouled hard, they was dirty, look what they did."


@13:26- "They show you a few video clips and tell the world this was how they played. They’ll never show you the game... Because they've got to keep this thing going. But show how we really played. Everybody got fouled. “There isn't a guy during that time got hit harder and more times than Isiah Thomas driving down the lane. I got the scars for it. But I ain’t ever cry. I just got up and went to the foul line. But he [Jordan] went to the league office, they wrote newspaper articles about it, you’re sitting here talking about the Jordan rules. Hey man, we had Kareem rules, we had Magic rules. … So don’t make it sound like it was something really special for him. We had a defensive philosophy for everybody we played against.”

Precisely. They played Barkely the same way. Maybe even more physical. Except Jordan was the only one to cry about it so the media came to his defense as usual. Great publicity

[Full Court]

Precisely. They played Barkely the same way. Maybe even more physical. Except Jordan was the only one to cry about it so the media came to his defense as usual. Great publicity

Sounds like damage control to me.

Jordan still in peoples' heads 20 years after retirement. :lol

[hateraid]

Sounds like damage control to me.

Jordan still in peoples' heads 20 years after retirement. :lol

Kind of how you enter every single Lebron thread? Riiiightt.

But yeah I can see why it hurts you when the Jordan Rules is being exposed as a publicity thing for the NBA

[Axe]

Kind of how you enter every single Lebron thread? Riiiightt.

But yeah I can see why it hurts you when the Jordan Rules is being exposed as a publicity thing for the NBA
:oldlol:

[Full Court]

Kind of how you enter every single Lebron thread? Riiiightt.

But yeah I can see why it hurts you when the Jordan Rules is being exposed as a publicity thing for the NBA

I've got a newsflash for you: LeShrivel is still an active player. :roll:

Bronies....

[Full Court]

:oldlol:

:oldlol:

[1987_Lakers]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mUzjnnVUXmE&t=337s

Isiah clearly thinks the "Jordan Rules" were overrated. Yeah. It's Isiah talking, and obviously he's biased, but I loved his explanation. Some key statements from the section on the Jordan Rules (5:37-15:57)...

@5:45- "We had rules for everybody... We had rules for Magic. We had rules for Bird. We had rules for Kareem."

For the next roughly five minutes or so Isiah proceeds to explain the Xs and Os of the defensive strategy known as the "Jordan Rules", which in summary was to take away MJ's right hand and force him left into a double team. As a volume shooter MJ was reluctant to pass, and the Pistons' "analytics" determined that MJ shot a lower fg% going left than going right, and that even if he did pass the ball, the pass would be in the air allowing them to recover defensively. If he beat the trap going left, then they would foul him to put him on the line as opposed to giving up an easy sure two points from a dunk. That was the "Jordan Rules" in a nutshell.

@ 11:28- "When we would foul him [MJ] and put him on the foul line, he would cry... I was getting real fouls too. Wait a minute. It wasn't like he was the only one getting real fouls. Back then, everybody was getting fouled. McHale snatched Rambis out of the air. Bird was firing on Dr. J. I'm sorry...Dr. J was firing on Bird."

@13:03- “Cartwright, He throw some bows. He caught me. I ain't gon' lie. Yeah. Horace Grant was hitting me pretty hard coming down the lane. So they [The Bulls] was laying wood man. I mean, they was laying hard wood. But Jordan, he’s the only one still crying today. 'They hit me hard, they fouled hard, they was dirty, look what they did."


@13:26- "They show you a few video clips and tell the world this was how they played. They’ll never show you the game... Because they've got to keep this thing going. But show how we really played. Everybody got fouled. “There isn't a guy during that time got hit harder and more times than Isiah Thomas driving down the lane. I got the scars for it. But I ain’t ever cry. I just got up and went to the foul line. But he [Jordan] went to the league office, they wrote newspaper articles about it, you’re sitting here talking about the Jordan rules. Hey man, we had Kareem rules, we had Magic rules. … So don’t make it sound like it was something really special for him. We had a defensive philosophy for everybody we played against.”

This is pretty accurate, people always look at MJ as this dude who never complained, but he always cried about Detroit's defense. Kinda how Peyton Manning and the Colts complained to the NFL for how physical the Patriots defense was.

[Axe]

Is it true the league also changed the rules for him so he can start dominating? :confusedshrug:

[1987_Lakers]

Is it true the league also changed the rules for him so he can start dominating? :confusedshrug:

Wilt Chamberlain to Michael Jordan: “The difference between you and me is that they had to change the rules so I couldn't dominate. They changed the rules so that you could dominate.”

https://fadeawayworld.net/.image/t_share/MTg3MTI4NzIwNDg4NjcwNzA1/michael-jordan-wilt-chamberlain.jpg

[jlip]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mUzjnnVUXmE&t=337s

Isiah clearly thinks the "Jordan Rules" were overrated. Yeah. It's Isiah talking, and obviously he's biased, but I loved his explanation. Some key statements from the section on the Jordan Rules (5:37-15:57)...

@5:45- "We had rules for everybody... We had rules for Magic. We had rules for Bird. We had rules for Kareem."

For the next roughly five minutes or so Isiah proceeds to explain the Xs and Os of the defensive strategy known as the "Jordan Rules", which in summary was to take away MJ's right hand and force him left into a double team. As a volume shooter MJ was reluctant to pass, and the Pistons' "analytics" determined that MJ shot a lower fg% going left than going right, and that even if he did pass the ball, the pass would be in the air allowing them to recover defensively. If he beat the trap going left, then they would foul him to put him on the line as opposed to giving up an easy sure two points from a dunk. That was the "Jordan Rules" in a nutshell.

@ 11:28- "When we would foul him [MJ] and put him on the foul line, he would cry... I was getting real fouls too. Wait a minute. It wasn't like he was the only one getting real fouls. Back then, everybody was getting fouled. McHale snatched Rambis out of the air. Bird was firing on Dr. J. I'm sorry...Dr. J was firing on Bird."

@13:03- “Cartwright, He throw some bows. He caught me. I ain't gon' lie. Yeah. Horace Grant was hitting me pretty hard coming down the lane. So they [The Bulls] was laying wood man. I mean, they was laying hard wood. But Jordan, he’s the only one still crying today. 'They hit me hard, they fouled hard, they was dirty, look what they did."


@13:26- "They show you a few video clips and tell the world this was how they played. They’ll never show you the game... Because they've got to keep this thing going. But show how we really played. Everybody got fouled. “There isn't a guy during that time got hit harder and more times than Isiah Thomas driving down the lane. I got the scars for it. But I ain’t ever cry. I just got up and went to the foul line. But he [Jordan] went to the league office, they wrote newspaper articles about it, you’re sitting here talking about the Jordan rules. Hey man, we had Kareem rules, we had Magic rules. … So don’t make it sound like it was something really special for him. We had a defensive philosophy for everybody we played against.”




Larry Bird explained the difference between hard fouls and trying to maim somebody Vietnam style.


https://youtu.be/NVAwV880RMo

This video actually supports what Isiah was saying in his interview as well as my post. The whole mystique of the "Jordan Rules" is that they were supposedly some unique and never before seen defensive strategy that was centered on hard fouls and physicality. Bird makes it clear in this video that you posted that the Pistons, especially Laimbeer, were physical, dirty, and fouling people hard such as to hurt or injure them even before MJ ever became a factor. Combine that with what Isiah was saying about the entire era seeing hard fouls and the fact that the Pistons had defensive strategies or "rules" for other superstars such as Magic, Bird, and Kareem, which sometimes included physical play and hard fouls also, this implies that maybe the vaunted "Jordan Rules" are somewhat overrated, or at least over- mythologized. Again, Isiah is claiming that they weren't THAT special, but only get a lot of attention because of MJ complaining, media narratives, and marketing.

[hateraid]

I've got a newsflash for you: LeShrivel is still an active player. :roll:

Bronies....

And you slurp him in everyone. Gotcha

[Full Court]

And you slurp him in everyone. Gotcha

^An obvious Bronie fluffer who's to scared to even admit it.

:lol

[hateraid]

^An obvious Bronie fluffer who's to scared to even admit it.

:lol

Here we go with the triggering. Lol

[Baller789]

Bronies still can't get over a player who retired two decades ago. :lol

[Full Court]

Here we go with the triggering. Lol

:confusedshrug: It was only a matter of time before you went into a bitch fit.

Must suck idolizing a chronic choker...

[Bawkish]

Is it true the league also changed the rules for him so he can start dominating? :confusedshrug:

Never knew flagrant fouls win championships

My eyes have opened, thanks buddy

[Axe]

Never knew flagrant fouls win championships

My eyes have opened, thanks buddy
Were the pistons ringless before it became effective? Tell us about it. :confusedshrug:

[bdonovan]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mUzjnnVUXmE&t=337s

Isiah clearly thinks the "Jordan Rules" were overrated. Yeah. It's Isiah talking, and obviously he's biased, but I loved his explanation. Some key statements from the section on the Jordan Rules (5:37-15:57)...

@5:45- "We had rules for everybody... We had rules for Magic. We had rules for Bird. We had rules for Kareem."

For the next roughly five minutes or so Isiah proceeds to explain the Xs and Os of the defensive strategy known as the "Jordan Rules", which in summary was to take away MJ's right hand and force him left into a double team. As a volume shooter MJ was reluctant to pass, and the Pistons' "analytics" determined that MJ shot a lower fg% going left than going right, and that even if he did pass the ball, the pass would be in the air allowing them to recover defensively. If he beat the trap going left, then they would foul him to put him on the line as opposed to giving up an easy sure two points from a dunk. That was the "Jordan Rules" in a nutshell.

@ 11:28- "When we would foul him [MJ] and put him on the foul line, he would cry... I was getting real fouls too. Wait a minute. It wasn't like he was the only one getting real fouls. Back then, everybody was getting fouled. McHale snatched Rambis out of the air. Bird was firing on Dr. J. I'm sorry...Dr. J was firing on Bird."

@13:03- “Cartwright, He throw some bows. He caught me. I ain't gon' lie. Yeah. Horace Grant was hitting me pretty hard coming down the lane. So they [The Bulls] was laying wood man. I mean, they was laying hard wood. But Jordan, he’s the only one still crying today. 'They hit me hard, they fouled hard, they was dirty, look what they did."


@13:26- "They show you a few video clips and tell the world this was how they played. They’ll never show you the game... Because they've got to keep this thing going. But show how we really played. Everybody got fouled. “There isn't a guy during that time got hit harder and more times than Isiah Thomas driving down the lane. I got the scars for it. But I ain’t ever cry. I just got up and went to the foul line. But he [Jordan] went to the league office, they wrote newspaper articles about it, you’re sitting here talking about the Jordan rules. Hey man, we had Kareem rules, we had Magic rules. … So don’t make it sound like it was something really special for him. We had a defensive philosophy for everybody we played against.”

Interesting find.

While Isaiah claims they had a defensive approach ('rules') to all star players, the real question is did they treat them with the same level of physicality as Jordan.

Isiah seems somewhat bitter in this video. Claiming Jordan didn't have good handles??? I remember watching Jordan and his were as good as anyone's today - mostly better. So not sure what that means.

This video that someone here posted of Salley and Rodman, two of the main enforcers of the Jordan rules, seem to be being a bit more honest than Isaiah - https://www.youtube.com/shorts/zWJHnzvF_r4 .

Chuck Daly was a coach like Popovich in that he studies what the refs Actually blow the whistle on, not just what the NBA rule book says. And then take advantage of that. The Spurs were the kings of the off-ball moving screen because they knew the refs weren't looking. That's what Daly does here in the playoffs- knowing they can get away with a lot. A hard foul then was a common foul, not a flagrant.

The reason I doubt they were this physical with anyone else is that the cost-benefit wasn't there.

[Baller789]

Were the pistons ringless before it became effective? Tell us about it. :confusedshrug:
The Pistons only won championships becuase of hard fouling. Axe is a genius.

[Axe]

:sleeping

[Baller789]

:sleeping

I love you too man.

[FilmyCogTurner]

The difference is the physicality was concentrated on Jordan while the other teams had the physical play spread throughout the roster. Much easier to endure when its your comrades taking the same velocity of hits.

And lets not forget how polarizing MJ was as well, the Pistons efforts were dialed up in their attempt to stop his Airness.