Have you ever genuinely felt any of these players was the best in the world?

[Kblaze8855]

And if so……when?


Durant, Anthony Davis, Steph, Harden, Giannis and Leonard.



I’ve heard it said that all of those players were #1 at some point. I’m comfortable assuming the pick today would be Jokic so I don’t feel a need to ask about him. Lebron clearly had it for some time but the rest had more spotty claims that came and went.

Any of them ever get a solid #1 spot from you?

[Carbine]

Durant had at least a 51 percent share of BPA after the first title and kept it for at least a year after that.

[RRR3]

Who said Anthony Davis was the best besides trolls? Never seen anyone serious say Harden was the best either.

Curry has been the best player in multiple seasons can’t say any of the others have been for sure.

[ShawkFactory]

Kawhi and Giannis.

[SouBeachTalents]

KD maybe briefly in 2021, he really was a monster during that playoff run

AD never

Steph I did during the 73 win season when he was scorched earth

Harden never, he almost always has disappointed in the playoffs

Giannis took the BITW mantle following his title run, and I had him basically 1a/1b with Jokic until these playoffs

Kawhi I would've given the nod to following his title run, until his epic choke in the bubble. When he plays, he still looks like a potential BITW

Question for OP, did KG, Wade or Dirk ever take the BITW mantle to you?

[highwhey]

Kawhi and Durant, yes. Giannis for one year max...

Steph? :yaohappy: even during his insanely good 2016 campaign, everyone and their momma knew Bron was still better. just a case of having a better and healthy team for curry, but no one ever questioned LeBron not being the best except for butthurt trolls like 3ball and warrior stans.

[highwhey]

as for AD...nah. he has nights were sure, he may have been the best, but hes nto consistant enough to be considered BPA for the duration of a season.

btw, still laughing @ the suggestion of steph :roll:

[1987_Lakers]

Kawhi and Giannis.

This!

[Kblaze8855]

Who said Anthony Davis was the best besides trolls? Never seen anyone serious say Harden was the best either.


Feel like I’ve heard both called the best on tv. I wouldn’t say it was ever common but I’m fairly sure I’ve heard it said. More of Harden than AD probably.

[Kblaze8855]

KD maybe briefly in 2021, he really was a monster during that playoff run

AD never

Steph I did during the 73 win season when he was scorched earth

Harden never, he almost always has disappointed in the playoffs

Giannis took the BITW mantle following his title run, and I had him basically 1a/1b with Jokic until these playoffs

Kawhi I would've given the nod to following his title run, until his epic choke in the bubble. When he plays, he still looks like a potential BITW

Question for OP, did KG, Wade or Dirk ever take the BITW mantle to you?


Im pretty sure in 04 I was in arguments for KG on here. Perception wise Shaq, Tmac, and Kobe were all down so it was KG and Duncan mostly and the post title bump had started to wear off like it always does the next season. I wouldn’t be surprised if you could find me saying Wade was as good as anyone in 09 or 2010. 06 it was said that offseason but I don’t remember a specific take I had.

[tpols]

Harden hasn't but all the other 5 had playoff runs where they had strong cases for best in the world.

Kawhi 2019
Curry 2022
AD 2020
Durant 2017
Giannis 2021

[hateraid]

It went from Bird, Magic, Jordan, Shaq, Kobe, Lebron..2020. I felt those weren't relinquished.

Since that time it's been up in the air although better to judge in hindsight

[SouBeachTalents]

It went from Bird, Magic, Jordan, Shaq, Kobe, Lebron..2020. I felt those weren't relinquished.

Since that time it's been up in the air although better to judge in hindsight
Nah, there was definitely someone between Shaq & Kobe, at least Duncan. And you can't just give Jordan the baseball years, even if he was playing idk if he'd be better than Hakeem.

[Real Men Wear Green]

Giannis definitely when he was winning mvp's and leading Milwaukee to the top of the NBA. It's really something to lead a city like Milwaukee to a championship in any major sport and he had been argusbly the league's best scorer as well as defensive player. Curry and Durant are guys I thought may be the best but there has never been a time there were no players I wouldn't consider taking over both of them. KD had the talent to be one of the five greatest ever in my opinion but that doesn't mean that he was. Curry had been the best offensive player but peak James and Giannis were so much better defensively without being definitely worse offensive players. And getting back to Durant...I do have a little bit of bias. Really didn't like him joining the Warriors.

Leonard and Harden... no. AD also no.

[Axe]

I think nobody expected kawhi to win a ring in 2019 when the dubs won the title in 2018.

[RRR3]

Feel like I’ve heard both called the best on tv. I wouldn’t say it was ever common but I’m fairly sure I’ve heard it said. More of Harden than AD probably.
I've only heard it on message boards, never TV. Unless you count Darryl Morey interviews for Harden. AD is usually considered LeBron's sidekick by the media, not sure when anyone would have called him the best. Skip Bayless perhaps but does he really count?

[Carbine]

I think people are genuinely forgetting about Kawhi hype after that title too.

He was getting "Can he challenge for goat" threads here, along with being compared to Mike all the time afterwards..

He was definitely thought of as the best player for a bit. KD was hurt, he just beat Curry in the finals. Giannis wasn't there yet. Neither was Jokic

[Real Men Wear Green]

I think people are genuinely forgetting about Kawhi hype after that title too.

He was getting "Can he challenge for goat" threads here, along with being compared to Mike all the time afterwards..

He was definitely thought of as the best player for a bit. KD was hurt, he just beat Curry in the finals. Giannis wasn't there yet. Neither was Jokic
There were people that thought Leonard might be the best player but I was never sold on it. They got horribly lucky with the warrior injuries. I was willing to consider it but wanted to see more and the clipper years did the opposite for me.

[Gotterdammerung]

BITW cannot just be awarded to guys who win the title as their team's best player. It's not a baton that's passed year-to-year. It's a mythical title that needs more than just the championship - it needs undisputed recognition from the public and the hardcores and insiders and etc. The BITW needs to win league MVPs, be the leading all-star vote winner/team captain, and be the clear-cut reason why their team has the best odds of winning the title in any given season even if it's composed of mostly average guys.

From Russell & Wilt in the 60s, to Kareem & the Doctor in the 70s, Bird & Magic in the 80s, to Jordan in the 90s.

In the 00s, we had O'Neal, Duncan, and Bryant. By the 2010s, it was LBJ, then Curry peaked for a couple of years mid-10s, and lately it seems like an interregnum period where the BITW is more of a perfume oil we anoint the winning team's top dog every year since 2018 (Durant, Leonard, Giannis, and now Jokic).

Giannis seems to fit the BITW status the best with 2 league MVPs, a few All-Star captainships, and a title. But we need more.
:kobe:

[AlternativeAcc.]

Only Durant and Giannis.

LeBron was by far the best in 2016 and showed it in the finals while humiliating steph. Then Durant cucked Curry even further for several more years.

Kawhit had a nice run in 2019 but his team was absolutely loaded despite the narrative of him carrying an average roster, and it was a clear asterisk title.

LeBron was bitw until the 2019 season, with Durant and Giannis alternating until Jokic came along. End of story.

[highwhey]

BITW cannot just be awarded to guys who win the title as their team's best player. It's not a baton that's passed year-to-year. It's a mythical title that needs more than just the championship - it needs undisputed recognition from the public and the hardcores and insiders and etc. The BITW needs to win league MVPs, be the leading all-star vote winner/team captain, and be the clear-cut reason why their team has the best odds of winning the title in any given season even if it's composed of mostly average guys.

From Russell & Wilt in the 60s, to Kareem & the Doctor in the 70s, Bird & Magic in the 80s, to Jordan in the 90s.

In the 00s, we had O'Neal, Duncan, and Bryant. By the 2010s, it was LBJ, then Curry peaked for a couple of years mid-10s, and lately it seems like an interregnum period where the BITW is more of a perfume oil we anoint the winning team's top dog every year since 2018 (Durant, Leonard, Giannis, and now Jokic).

Giannis seems to fit the BITW status the best with 2 league MVPs, a few All-Star captainships, and a title. But we need more.
:kobe:

you're retarded if you think curry was ever, by your own definition, undisputable the best. anyone that watched those series knew Bron was the better player but a victim to injuries and eventually, a victim to playing against the most stacked team in the world. LeBron confirmed that by coming from behind 1-3 to beat the living shit out of Curry. and he would have continued to beat him had Durant not joined him. oddly enough, this is an undisputable fact.

[Axe]

Only Durant and Giannis.

LeBron was by far the best in 2016 and showed it in the finals while humiliating steph. Then Durant cucked Curry even further for several more years.

Kawhit had a nice run in 2019 but his team was absolutely loaded despite the narrative of him carrying an average roster, and it was a clear asterisk title.

LeBron was bitw until the 2019 season, with Durant and Giannis alternating until Jokic came along. End of story.
It was actually a payback on the same team when he was injured by zaza during game 1 of the 2017 wcf. :lol

[AlternativeAcc.]

It was actually a payback on the same team when he was injured by zaza during game 1 of the 2017 wcf. :lol

He was injured by being made of glass, but yes, that was an interesting narrative at the time

Zaza was the scapegoat for Kawhit fans in denial

[Axe]

He was injured by being made of glass, but yes, that was an interesting narrative at the time

Zaza was the scapegoat for Kawhit fans in denial
That's not the only time he seemed to have done it with intention tho. He also did it against westbrook (almost caused injury to his knee as well) during one rs game in february five years ago.

[AlternativeAcc.]

That's not the only time he seemed to have done it with intention tho. He also did it against westbrook (caused injury to his knee) during one rs game in february five years ago.

Just watched the replay of Zaza and Kawhi, it was nothing

Kawhit just made of glass. Zaza closed a bit deep but that happens every game

[Axe]

Just watched the replay of Zaza and Kawhi, it was nothing

Kawhit just made of glass. Zaza closed a bit deep but that happens every game
Yeah we all know kawhi is soft but i just believe that fall made by zaza still seems to be suspicious up to this day.

[Gotterdammerung]

you're retarded if you think curry was ever, by your own definition, undisputable the best. anyone that watched those series knew Bron was the better player but a victim to injuries and eventually, a victim to playing against the most stacked team in the world. LeBron confirmed that by coming from behind 1-3 to beat the living shit out of Curry. and he would have continued to beat him had Durant not joined him. oddly enough, this is an undisputable fact.

:oldlol:

Claiming that if things were otherwise, things woulda been different is circular reasoning. It is like saying, "if it rains, things will be wet." it is true that if things were different, that Kevin Love was healthy, and Kyrie Irving didn't pop off his kneecap in overtime of Game 1, things could be different, but it does not add anything to the discussion.

You are presenting a hypothetical scenario as an "undisputable (sic) fact". We can explore hypothetical scenarios about what could be, but not what is or was. This clearly mixes up what could happen with what actually happened, a classic case of the modal fallacy.

Coulda Shoulda Woulda is not "an undisputable(sic) fact."

:oldlol:

[Im Still Ballin]

Dwight Howard in 2011. That's a hot take. Ranked #2 by ESPN and Sports Illustrated behind LeBron.

A thread from 2011: Build a Franchise Next 7 Yrs - Dwight Howard or Kevin Durant (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?511139-A-thread-from-2011-Build-a-Franchise-Next-7-Yrs-Dwight-Howard-or-Kevin-Durant)


https://forums.realgm.com/boards/vie...ward#p27095766

Dwight Howard
29 votes
91%

Kevin Durant
3 votes
9%

Total votes: 32

[highwhey]

:oldlol:

Claiming that if things were otherwise, things woulda been different is circular reasoning. It is like saying, "if it rains, things will be wet." it is true that if things were different, that Kevin Love was healthy, and Kyrie Irving didn't pop off his kneecap in overtime of Game 1, things could be different, but it does not add anything to the discussion.

You are presenting a hypothetical scenario as an "undisputable (sic) fact". We can explore hypothetical scenarios about what could be, but not what is or was. This clearly mixes up what could happen with what actually happened, a classic case of the modal fallacy.

Coulda Shoulda Woulda is not "an undisputable(sic) fact."

:oldlol:

:facepalm winning the title doesn't mean you were the better player. so zaza was better than bron? k.

[SouBeachTalents]

Dwight Howard in 2011. That's a hot take. Ranked #2 by ESPN and Sports Illustrated behind LeBron.

A thread from 2011: Build a Franchise Next 7 Yrs - Dwight Howard or Kevin Durant (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?511139-A-thread-from-2011-Build-a-Franchise-Next-7-Yrs-Dwight-Howard-or-Kevin-Durant)
I was literally thinking how two guys who were arguably BITW at one point, McGrady & Dwight, didn't even make the 75th team.

[Axe]

In the 00s, we had O'Neal, Duncan, and Bryant. By the 2010s, it was LBJ, then Curry peaked for a couple of years mid-10s, and lately it seems like an interregnum period where the BITW is more of a perfume oil we anoint the winning team's top dog every year since 2018 (Durant, Leonard, Giannis, and now Jokic).
The only guy in that list after the bill russell era who 'peaked' in that period but never had any finals mvp at all until last year.

[Im Still Ballin]

I was literally thinking how two guys who were arguably BITW at one point, McGrady & Dwight, didn't even make the 75th team.

Yeah, I'd take both of them at their best over Carmelo for sure. Dame as well I think.

[Wardell Curry]

Every single guy in the OP has been the best player in the league for a certain period of time. For a night? Yes. For a week? Yes. For a month? Yes.

Full seasons? Probably all except AD & Kawhi. And even they have arguments for full seasons, especially Kawhi.

[Jasper]

championship year Giannis !!!

[SouBeachTalents]

Every single guy in the OP has been the best player in the league for a certain period of time. For a night? Yes. For a week? Yes. For a month? Yes.

Full seasons? Probably all except AD & Kawhi. And even they have arguments for full seasons, especially Kawhi.
Harden? Nah :lol Even when he was balling in the regular season, I doubt even the biggest hater would consider Harden better than LeBron, let alone Curry, KD, Kawhi etc. He simply never had the playoff pedigree to give him the nod over his contemporaries.

[hold this L]

Hot take: It's been Steph or Lebron as the #1 guy since 2015 every single year except for this season.

championship year Giannis !!!

Literal role player for 90% of the games he played in in the last 5 minutes of the game. Middleton carried the end of every tight game when it turned into half court game.

[Manny98]

Curry in 2015
Kawhi in 2019
Giannis in 21 & 22

[AlternativeAcc.]

Hot take: It's been Steph or Lebron as the #1 guy since 2015 every single year except for this season.


Literal role player for 90% of the games he played in in the last 5 minutes of the game. Middleton carried the end of every tight game when it turned into half court game.

Good one bro! Stellar hot take.

Good thing nobody takes your dumb goofy ass seriously or they might be preturbed by this head-scratching post. Don't post anymore while I'm active. I don't wanna see your low IQ takes.

[BarberSchool]

Yes. There was a window, pre-uncle-advised-load-management, where Kawhi was the best two way player on earth.

There was also a window where Steph Curry’s offensive gravity and talent, made him the best player in the world, despite him being hunted on defense.

[paksat]

Im pretty sure in 04 I was in arguments for KG on here. Perception wise Shaq, Tmac, and Kobe were all down so it was KG and Duncan mostly and the post title bump had started to wear off like it always does the next season. I wouldn’t be surprised if you could find me saying Wade was as good as anyone in 09 or 2010. 06 it was said that offseason but I don’t remember a specific take I had.

09 wade is still the best overall player i've ever seen. Only weakness was his 3 pointer but I believe that year he started to really knock them down at times, at will.

[Johnny32]

09 wade is still the best overall player i've ever seen. Only weakness was his 3 pointer but I believe that year he started to really knock them down at times, at will.

wade made 1.1 3pters per gm in 09...knocking em down at will.

[Johnny32]

It went from Bird, Magic, Jordan, Shaq, Kobe, Lebron..2020. I felt those weren't relinquished.

Since that time it's been up in the air although better to judge in hindsight

interesting take. i've seen quite a bit of debate on whether or not kobe was ever the best player in the game.

[Wally450]

Steph during the 2016 season up until the playoffs when he got hurt.

Durant when Westbrook went down and he won MVP in 2014, as well as after his first title.

That's about it.

[Wardell Curry]

Harden? Nah :lol Even when he was balling in the regular season, I doubt even the biggest hater would consider Harden better than LeBron, let alone Curry, KD, Kawhi etc. He simply never had the playoff pedigree to give him the nod over his contemporaries.

Use more laughing emoticons. It means you're right.

Harden absolutely didn't cook people all regular season long many years in a row, producing better statistical seasons than anyone else with a massive and noticeable impact for the Rockets' ability to win. You're right, it never happened.

If you want to get into anything further it simply becomes a matter of hypotheticals and speaking in what could/should have happened, such as those players outplaying Harden for a season. Fact is, they didn't. Even if you include the playoffs, there is an argument to be made in his favor there multiple times. The playoffs are not all that matter.

What a player was capable of doing and what they actually did are not the same thing. Harden was never the most talented player in the league. But there was at least a season or two where he was the best player in the regular season due to whatever reasons coming out of the other guys. Championship hangovers, not giving it their all, willfully taking a back seat, saving for the playoffs, whatever. All hypotheticals.

[SATAN]

Durant, Anthony Davis, Steph, Harden, Giannis and Leonard.




No, although I think Steph ALMOST had a case for a season. Maybe 2. He's getting underrated in all honesty. When Giannis and Leonard were being ESPN-ized 36-37 year old LeBron was still killing them for the most part while spoon feeding AD before injury.

lol@Harden and Durant.

[ShawkFactory]

Use more laughing emoticons. It means you're right.

Harden absolutely didn't cook people all regular season long many years in a row, producing better statistical seasons than anyone else with a massive and noticeable impact for the Rockets' ability to win. You're right, it never happened.

If you want to get into anything further it simply becomes a matter of hypotheticals and speaking in what could/should have happened, such as those players outplaying Harden for a season. Fact is, they didn't. Even if you include the playoffs, there is an argument to be made in his favor there multiple times. The playoffs are not all that matter.

What a player was capable of doing and what they actually did are not the same thing. Harden was never the most talented player in the league. But there was at least a season or two where he was the best player in the regular season due to whatever reasons coming out of the other guys. Championship hangovers, not giving it their all, willfully taking a back seat, saving for the playoffs, whatever. All hypotheticals.

While you're not wrong, the question is did we genuinely think that the guy in question was the best in the world. Even if Harden was perhaps playing the best ball in the league for a minute can you honestly say that you though that he was better than any of Lebron, Steph, or KD at that point?

[hold this L]

Harden was pretty amazing though. I don't think he ever was the best but he was top 3 for several seasons. Some of his RS runs are incredible. Disgusting to watch the way he plays, but amazing nonetheless.

[SouBeachTalents]

Harden was pretty amazing though. I don't think he ever was the best but he was top 3 for several seasons. Some of his RS runs are incredible. Disgusting to watch the way he plays, but amazing nonetheless.
Several seasons? Idk about that. If you could pick a player for every season from let's say 2015-2020, would he really make your top 3 for any of those years? I could give him top 3 for 2015, thanks in part to KD's injury. Besides that? There's no way I'm taking him over some combo of the 3 of LeBron/Curry/KD/Kawhi from 2016-19, and then by 2020 you'd have Giannis, AD & Luka in the mix.

I admit I'm lower on Harden than most, because he has a proven track record of being a major disappointment in the playoffs. I'm not even basing that on rangz, it's strictly on his individual performance. The bigger the game and the bigger the series, the worse he's going to play.

[Im so nba'd out]

Not gonna lie for a split second in the regular season of the 2015-2016 season I legit thought steph was the best player in the world. But Lebron snatched it back. Lebron has been the best player in the world since the Detroit series in 07.


Steph has been the 2nd best player in the world since 2014 playoffs



The 3rd best player has changed many times

Kawhi Giannis Durant harden carmelo wade…. It has switched many many many times between the 4 since 2007

[999Guy]

They had their moments. They shared that status in different ways. Year by year, season type by season type.

Kawhi was probably the one that stands out in my mind. He's the most complete of the names mentioned, with an offensive ceiling close to the best offensive guys there(Harden, Curry), and a defensive ceiling close enough to the best defensive guys there(Davis, Giannis) simultaneously.

There's a lot of **** sh1t and nonsense surrounding pro sports, especially in a league like the NBA, so I guess it would be somewhat easy to miss, but Kawhi's level reached in the late 10's was a like when geologists or archeologist find some evidence of insane event in earths history, his peak left a real mark in my mind, and I'm not even talking the Raptors title necessarily. A keen eye would know the year he won the title as the man was ironically worse than his full seasons before and after, literally and categorically.

[Akeem34TheDream]

Not gonna lie for a split second in the regular season of the 2015-2016 season I legit thought steph was the best player in the world. But Lebron snatched it back. Lebron has been the best player in the world since the Detroit series in 07.


Steph has been the 2nd best player in the world since 2014 playoffs



The 3rd best player has changed many times

Kawhi Giannis Durant harden carmelo wade…. It has switched many many many times between the 4 since 2007

Who do you have as the best player in the world right now?

[hold this L]

Several seasons? Idk about that. If you could pick a player for every season from let's say 2015-2020, would he really make your top 3 for any of those years? I could give him top 3 for 2015, thanks in part to KD's injury. Besides that? There's no way I'm taking him over some combo of the 3 of LeBron/Curry/KD/Kawhi from 2016-19, and then by 2020 you'd have Giannis, AD & Luka in the mix.

I admit I'm lower on Harden than most, because he has a proven track record of being a major disappointment in the playoffs. I'm not even basing that on rangz, it's strictly on his individual performance. The bigger the game and the bigger the series, the worse he's going to play.

During his MVP season, during Giannis 1st MVP also you can argue Harden is top 3.

[Im so nba'd out]

Who do you have as the best player in the world right now?

Lebron James followed by steph. Kawhi 3rd Giannis 4th

[paksat]

wade made 1.1 3pters per gm in 09...knocking em down at will.

when he shot them yes, he was knocking them down and getting hot at times. He's not ray allen or curry, and neither of them can even come close to doing what prime wade can

[90sgoat]

Any of them ever get a solid #1 spot from you?

Kawhi yes.

The year he won with Toronto, I definitely feel its safe to claim he was at the level of a Kobe or Lebron ring, actually more impressive.

[Axe]

Kawhi yes.

The year he won with Toronto, I definitely feel its safe to claim he was at the level of a Kobe or Lebron ring, actually more impressive.
I have the same sentiment as well. However, his case is obviously apparent in the playoffs not in the rs. Unlike the others who also did well in the latter.

[John8204]

Anthony Davis, Might have been top five at some point....
Kwahi Leonard, hovered around top three for a bit but
James Harden, had a long run putting up stats but always the fourth or fifth best player in the league
Steph, best shooter and one of the best team mates but to be honest with you even during his MVP runs I thought Lebron and KD were better
Durant, in the years where you could argue Lebron wasn't the best KD was the best in the world
Giannis, I consider Giannis the best player in the world right now over Jokic

[SATAN]

Giannis, I consider Giannis the best player in the world right now over Jokic

Curious to see your reasoning...

[John8204]

Curious to see your reasoning...

He's the better two way player, I think he's in better shape and if they played one on one he would beat him. Jokic reminds me of Kareem a great variety of skills and very valuable but he needs his teammates to produce because he's not going to take over a game.

[bizil]

Of the guys listed, I only see Giannis and KD who were the best player at one point. And between those two, Giannis had more of a grip on it. I'm not saying Giannis is the GOAT PF yet. BUT peak wise or who I would take in a PF draft 1st, I would take Giannis. I think he's the best PF EVER peak-prime wise. When it comes to combining scoring, passing, rebounding, defense, and freak athletic ability as a package, he REPRESENTS what MJ and Bron represented at their respective positions.

As great as KD is, he doesn't check as many boxes as those icons. EVEN THOUGH he's an icon himself and was the best player on the planet at one point. BUT once guys like MJ, Bron, or Giannis hit their stride, it's GONNA TAKE somebody with similar attributes/dominance at their position. Or guys like a Shaq or Joker who are so physically dominant (Shaq) or skilled (Joker) to take the crown.

The other guys listed as great as they are I never considered best on the world. The other guys I never considered the best. EVEN THOUGH AD should be able to look eye to eye with Giannis. But due to durability and yes at times passiveness, Giannis is hands down superior.

[Stephonit]

Steph has been the best player in the world since the Warriors won in 2015.

All those saying he wasn't are also saying they thought Durant was better.

They are wrong about the latter. They are wrong about the former.

[SATAN]

Steph has been the best player in the world since the Warriors won in 2015.



https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-F7jkdY1jJR8/T6lfZ4D9tbI/AAAAAAAABHo/pHfMZD7V8Gg/s170/nicholas-cage-laughing.gif

[Stephonit]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mP-6h94-3zc


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ITYI0aeCrdo

[Axe]

Steph has been the best player in the world since the Warriors won in 2015.

All those saying he wasn't are also saying they thought Durant was better.

They are wrong about the latter. They are wrong about the former.
Idk. Seems kinda farfetched.

[Stephonit]

Idk. Seems kinda farfetched.

I'm sure there were those who thought at the start of the 2021 season that the idea of Curry winning a championship with his last placed team before KD, Kawhi, and LeBron won another with their superteams was far-fetched.

But he did.

Those still doubting him are incorrigibly silly.

[Axe]

I'm sure there were those who thought at the start of the 2021 season that the idea of Curry winning a championship with his last placed team before KD, Kawhi, and LeBron won another with their superteams was far-fetched.

But he did.

Those still doubting him are incorrigibly silly.
No Klay?

[Kblaze8855]

No Klay?


17 people on the 2020 Warriors weren’t on the title team. Just go look at the roster. Just a random grab bag of people many of whom didn’t even last in the nba.

[bizil]

do you really think giannis would dominate against 90s bigmen? not saying he's not great, defense and all....but his scoring is iffy. i wouldn't say he's "dominant" at scoring like lebron or mj were...or shaq. those 3 didn't need to be bailed out by refs to score, they could get a bucket at will. giannis has moments like that as well, but he also has moments where he just runs into the paint with seemingly no plan of attack besides lowering his shoulder and hoping the ball gets in, when it doesn't, the refs call a whistle and goes to the line...but against 90 centers or maybe jokic, would he get that call? doubt it. jokic plays it smart, doesnt fall for fakes and the refs dont call soft fouls against him. giannis is the benefactor of having a whistle for the defender standing their ground.

What you sleep on is Giannis's POSITIONAL VERSATILITY! He can play SF, PF, and C. And play in a point forward capacity. From there he can defend virtually EVERY POSITION good to great. That TRANSLATES in any era! If you put Giannis back in the 90's, he's EASILY the most athletic 7 footer in the league! The 7 footers in the league didn't have the OVERALL positional two way versatility that Giannis had. And I consider Giannis more of combo forward who can play the five. And defend any position. If you put Giannis in the 90's, he's EASILY the best PF in the world. If you put him at the SF, he's EASILY the best SF in the world.

At the 5, you are running into guys just as big or BIGGER than him. Who could put him on the block and put in work. So i'm not gonna say he's a better player than Shaq or the Dream. Giannis is more in the KG-AD lane. 6'11 to 7'0 superstars with positionless two way qualities in their games. Back in the early 90's, there were NONE OF THESE GUYS in the league! That alone shakes shit up! KG was the godfather and blueprint of that type of player. Giannis and AD put their own twist on it and come from that tree. They are basically in their own club. You get over 20 PPG, 11+ RPG, and the ability to defend all the positions at times if needed. And with Giannis and KG, you get 5+ assists a night as well.

[elementally morale]

And if so……when?


Durant, Anthony Davis, Steph, Harden, Giannis and Leonard.


Steph and Giannis yes. But only for a year. At most two. The others: No. 2016 and 2021, respectively for those two.

[dankok8]

Kawhi in 2019 and Giannis in 2021 were my BITW after those seasons.

Steph had a case at times and KD as well but not clear cut.

No for AD and Harden.

[Stephonit]

Kawhi in 2019 and Giannis in 2021 were my BITW after those seasons.

Steph had a case at times and KD as well but not clear cut.

No for AD and Harden.

I wonder what needs to happen for a case to be clear cut for you?

[dankok8]

I wonder what needs to happen for a case to be clear cut for you?

I'm just not convinced that Steph was better than Lebron from 2015-2018 and better than say Giannis or Jokic in 2022.

[elementally morale]

I'm just not convinced that Steph was better than Lebron from 2015-2018 and better than say Giannis or Jokic in 2022.

There was the year for Steph with the almost unanimous MVP selection. I'd have definitely had him that year over LeBron.

[tpols]

17 people on the 2020 Warriors weren’t on the title team. Just go look at the roster. Just a random grab bag of people many of whom didn’t even last in the nba.

And that's why Currys a GOAT. Not many people winning a championship with Wiggins as their 2nd best player and klay and dray shitting the bed. Probably only MJ could do that.

[Stephonit]

I'm just not convinced that Steph was better than Lebron from 2015-2018 and better than say Giannis or Jokic in 2022.

This is why I ask. What would it take to convince you? There was a sequence where Steph was MVP, led his team to 67 wins, got a ring, then led his team to a record 73 wins and was unanimous MVP. Neither Kawhi nor Giannis had a stretch close to that but for some reason you grant them the benefit of the doubt the first instance they might have a case. Then Curry gets another ring beating Jokic on the way and the team that eliminated Giannis and swept KD. Yet it seems you still have reservations. It would seem it's not a matter of accomplishments that's behind your reluctance.

[SATAN]

I didn't know the Steph fan base was so delusional :oldlol:

He'll be top 10 one day guys. :oldlol:

:facepalm

[tpols]

This is why I ask. What would it take to convince you? There was a sequence where Steph was MVP, led his team to 67 wins, got a ring, then led his team to a record 73 wins and was unanimous MVP. Neither Kawhi nor Giannis had a stretch close to that but for some reason you grant them the benefit of the doubt. Then Curry gets another ring beating Jokic on the way and the team that eliminated Giannis and swept KD. Yet it seems you still have reservations. It would seem it's not a matter of accomplishments that's behind your reluctance.

Some people can't appreciate how Currys style elevates teammates. Which is all reflected in offensive rank, assist rank, extreme win total and point differential.

They see a Shaq or lebron type and are wowed by their physical prowess but don't see their short comings. Those guys would've never won a chip with Andrew Wiggins as their 2nd option. They needed far more help to win.

Imagine Curry playing with prime Wade or Kobe... it'd be a wrap just like it was with Durant. Not squeaking by.

[SATAN]

Some people can't appreciate how Currys style elevates teammates. They see a Shaq or lebron type and are wowed by their physical prowess but don't see their short comings. Those guys would've never won a chip with Andrew Wiggins as their 2nd option. They needed far more help to win.

You think shapeshifting lizards rule the world. Your opinion is irrelevant. :oldlol:

[r0drig0lac]

Kawhi, Giannis

[ShawkFactory]

Some people can't appreciate how Currys style elevates teammates. Which is all reflected in offensive rank, assist rank, extreme win total and point differential.

They see a Shaq or lebron type and are wowed by their physical prowess but don't see their short comings. Those guys would've never won a chip with Andrew Wiggins as their 2nd option. They needed far more help to win.

Imagine Curry playing with prime Wade or Kobe... it'd be a wrap just like it was with Durant. Not squeaking by.

None of this is lost on anyone. You think you're more analytical than you are.

[SouBeachTalents]

Some people can't appreciate how Currys style elevates teammates. Which is all reflected in offensive rank, assist rank, extreme win total and point differential.

They see a Shaq or lebron type and are wowed by their physical prowess but don't see their short comings. Those guys would've never won a chip with Andrew Wiggins as their 2nd option. They needed far more help to win.

Imagine Curry playing with prime Wade or Kobe... it'd be a wrap just like it was with Durant. Not squeaking by.
Klay & Dray were multiple All-NBA selections and in their prime from 2017-19. Dray was the DPOY and Klay was the 2nd best shooter in the league. Why do you pretend these two prime All-NBA players didn’t exist on that team :lol

[tpols]

Klay & Dray were multiple All-NBA selections and in their prime from 2017-19. Dray was the DPOY and Klay was the 2nd best shooter in the league. Why do you pretend these two prime All-NBA players didn’t exist on that team :lol

In 2022 they didn't. Klay averaged 17 ppg on 35% shooting and dray averaged 6/8/6 on 33% shooting in the Finals (their toughest test). They shit the bed Dillon Brooks style. Most of their awards are because they played on a dynasty with curry. Klay could've made it else where but dray is a perfect example of the winning spotlight making somebody.

[SouBeachTalents]

In 2022 they didn't. Klay averaged 17 ppg on 35% shooting and dray averaged 6/8/6 on 33% shooting in the Finals (their toughest test). They shit the bed Dillon Brooks style. Most of their awards are because they played on a dynasty with curry. Klay could've made it else where but dray is a perfect example of the winning spotlight making somebody.
Irrelevant to my point. I’ve seen you argue multiple times that when Curry had KD, it was game over for the league. I have literally never seen you acknowledge they also had 2 other All-NBA players on the team, and maybe having 4 in prime All-NBA players is what made them almost unbeatable.

[ShawkFactory]

Klay & Dray were multiple All-NBA selections and in their prime from 2017-19. Dray was the DPOY and Klay was the 2nd best shooter in the league. Why do you pretend these two prime All-NBA players didn’t exist on that team :lol

It's also funny how he'll argue that Curry was the ultimate elevator of teammates but then talk about how he won despite them shitting the bed.

I'm not saying he didn't elevate teammates or that they did shit the bed. But the contradiction is just funny to me.

[hold this L]

It's also funny how he'll argue that Curry was the ultimate elevator of teammates but then talk about how he won despite them shitting the bed.

I'm not saying he didn't elevate teammates or that they did shit the bed. But the contradiction is just funny to me.

Curry has the highest win % differential in NBA history when he plays vs when he doesn't. Nobody elevates his team more than him. Unfortunately he doesn't pound the ball for 20 seconds for people to think that's the only way to elevate.

[ShawkFactory]

Curry has the highest win % differential in NBA history when he plays vs when he doesn't. Nobody elevates his team more than him. Unfortunately he doesn't pound the ball for 20 seconds for people to think that's the only way to elevate.

I agree that he elevates teams. That wasn't my point.

[tpols]

Irrelevant to my point. I’ve seen you argue multiple times that when Curry had KD, it was game over for the league. I have literally never seen you acknowledge they also had 2 other All-NBA players on the team, and maybe having 4 in prime All-NBA players is what made them almost unbeatable.

The point is they wouldn't be All NBA outside the warriors so that point is moot. Klay shit the bed in 2015 and 2016 Finals as well. And wasn't anything special in 2017 or 2018. I think he'd be an All Star else where but he simply never produced at an All NBA level. The winning spotlight gave him those awards. And dray is too easy a case to be made he wouldn't have any teams if he was drafted to like... Orlando or Washington or Detroit or something.

[ArbitraryWater]

tpols reurgitating the same old myths


but when he is asks how many players had the help of 3 other 18+ppg scorers + Draymond he is quiet.

[90sgoat]

I have the same sentiment as well. However, his case is obviously apparent in the playoffs not in the rs. Unlike the others who also did well in the latter.

Yes, sure.

Kawhi has had the highest level of play in the playoffs of those mentioned though, outside maybe Curry.

[dankok8]

This is why I ask. What would it take to convince you? There was a sequence where Steph was MVP, led his team to 67 wins, got a ring, then led his team to a record 73 wins and was unanimous MVP. Neither Kawhi nor Giannis had a stretch close to that but for some reason you grant them the benefit of the doubt the first instance they might have a case. Then Curry gets another ring beating Jokic on the way and the team that eliminated Giannis and swept KD. Yet it seems you still have reservations. It would seem it's not a matter of accomplishments that's behind your reluctance.

Lebron outplayed him pretty badly in the 2016 Finals and heck even Kyrie did. That puts a damper on his legendary regular season. And after 2015 it just wasn't quite enough to be alone at the top because again Lebron individually outplayed him even though IMO Curry had the better series within a team context.

There is truth in what Tpols said that Curry is one of those team superstars and so he might be getting less credit because his individual numbers are less impressive.

[HoopsNY]

None of this is lost on anyone. You think you're more analytical than you are.

Actually, it kinda is lost on a lot of people. I'm not gonna say that Steph > Shaq or LeBron, but his impact on the court is widely overlooked. Everyone talks about how well he shoots (in the media at least), and never actually bother to see how his off the ball ability and drawing defensive attention has such a massive impact on the team as a whole.

[ShawkFactory]

Actually, it kinda is lost on a lot of people. I'm not gonna say that Steph > Shaq or LeBron, but his impact on the court is widely overlooked. Everyone talks about how well he shoots (in the media at least), and never actually bother to see how his off the ball ability and drawing defensive attention has such a massive impact on the team as a whole.

Nobody honest overlooks stephs impact.

[warriorfan]

Nobody honest overlooks stephs impact.

I guess for the most part. He still has haters as everyone does. And if you look at it he’s been regarded by most as a top 3 player every year for nearly the past decade now. I guess it checks out then.

[ShawkFactory]

I guess for the most part. He still has haters as everyone does. And if you look at it he’s been regarded by most as a top 3 player every year for nearly the past decade now. I guess it checks out then.

It’s a byproduct of being great. Even though some of it is self-inflicted Lebron gets as much hate as anyone. Doesn’t really matter.

Same with KD. Nobody would care if they weren’t all time.

[SouBeachTalents]

I actually do feel like Steph became underappreciated during the KD era. People saw KD averaging monster numbers in the Finals and winning FMVP and believed he was the best player on the team. I still remember arguing with multiple posters during that time who legitimately believed Steph & the Warriors needed KD to win, despite them already winning a championship and coming literally 1-2 plays away from winning another. 2022 put a decisive end to that :lol

[Axe]

I guess for the most part. He still has haters as everyone does. And if you look at it he’s been regarded by most as a top 3 player every year for nearly the past decade now. I guess it checks out then.
With klay thompson. :confusedshrug: