Which recent HOF inductees would you deny a Supermax?

[Kblaze8855]

Let’s say all are in their primes or entering them. They’re unrestricted free agents. They want every piece of a 5 year 310 contract. 62 million a year on average.

These are the players(obvious people like Dirk, Wade, and Kobe excluded as well as injury guys like Grant Hill and some I know most here wouldn’t know well enough).

Pau
Tony Parker
Manu
Tim Hardaway
Bosh
Pierce
Ben Wallace
Chris Webber
Ray Allen
Mutombo
Zo
Gary Payton
Reggie
Mullin
Rodman



Thats 15. How many would you disrespect(in their opinion anyway) by not immediately offering it? In a world where top…15-20 guys get it…you arguing with any of those hall of famers? If so…who?

Anyone you outright hang up on his agent?

[RRR3]

Definitely not supermaxing Mutombo or Wallace in todays league. Wouldn’t for Rodman either unless he could develop a good 3ball. The rest feel like pretty easy yeses

[Kblaze8855]

I was recently watching Kyries 57 vs the spurs, and even though Kyrie was doing some downright video game on rookie difficulty beautiful shit my eye kept being drawn to Tony Parker. He was spamming the **** out of that floater that game. He was outplaying Kyrie for a while before he took him to the streets in the second half.

Made me wish I could see him out there now told to just get all the layups he could with the empty lanes. When he was as young and crazy fast?

On one hand, I feel like by level of play he will be a comfortable Supermax because you wouldn’t be able to guard him. On the other I wonder if he could realistically do anything that Isaiah Thomas couldnt during his King the fourth run.

Tony gonna do better than like 29/6?

You maxing them both if healthy?

[RRR3]

I was recently watching Kyries 57 bs the spurs, and even though Kyrie was doing some downright video game on rookie difficulty beautiful shit my eye kept being drawn to Tony Parker. He was spamming the **** out of that floater that game. He was outplaying Kyrie for a while before he took him to the streets in the second half.

Made me think ish I could see him out there now told to just get all the layups he could with the empty lanes. When he was as young and crazy fast?

On one hand, I feel like my level of play he will be a comfortable Supermax because you wouldn’t be able to guard him. On the other I wonder if he could realistically do anything that Isaiah Thomas couldnt during his King the fourth run.

Tony gonna do better than like 29/6?

You maxing them both if healthy?
Tony couldn’t really shoot threes so I don’t think he could do what IT did that year because he was elite shooting from downtown.

[Kblaze8855]

He didn’t shoot threes but he did shoot…which makes me assume he would shoot them now if required. I say “now” as if he was long ago. And I guess he was since he was drafted like 23 years ago and is already in the hall of fame. But here he is vs a championship Warrior team playing better defensive versions of most of those guys:



https://youtu.be/T_C0TKtoF0A


Hes out there past his prime going past Klay, taking on Iggy, then finishing around Draymond. Young athletic Dray and Klay.

I think a 25 year old TP might be a problem. But again…maybe no more than IT. And a lot of people here would have had a problem giving him super max money.

[bison]

It’s hard to say because back in, say, Mutombo’s day, there wasn’t this much emphasis on max contracts. Players weren’t paid as high even when you factor inflation, but also huge TV contracts and a player friendly CBAs weren’t the driving force of salary caps. The biggest money went to the proved superstars back in the day. That’s true today but teams also give huge contracts to guys who merely have potential upside. I’m old school so I’m giving the biggest money to a guy you can’t win without. From that list I would say that’s Pau, Pierce and Reggie. Maybe Zo. Rodman is a tough one. He’d easily get Draymond money today, maybe more.

[Kblaze8855]

It’s hard to say because back in, say, Mutombo’s day, there wasn’t this much emphasis on max contracts. Players weren’t paid as high even when you factor inflation, but also huge TV contracts and a player friendly CBAs weren’t the driving force of salary caps. The biggest money went to the proved superstars back in the day. That’s true today but teams also give huge contracts to guys who merely have potential upside. I’m old school so I’m giving the biggest money to a guy you can’t win without. From that list I would say that’s Pau, Pierce and Reggie. Maybe Zo. Rodman is a tough one. He’d easily get Draymond money today, maybe more.


Just for the record…by cap hit percentage Mutombo in Philly made this seasons equal of 48.6 million dollars. Juwan Howard made 64.19 million. Stars and not quite stars didn’t just start being paid. The numbers just got big enough for people to notice again.

[Reggie43]

Modern era Mutombo would give you monster numbers with the same weaknesses as Gobert although Deke was the better rim protector and was the smarter defender. He would probably go for 17-18pts 14-15rebs and 4 blocks in todays game and conditioning himself to be much more mobile to adapt to the modern game.

[Im Still Ballin]

Prime Tony Parker would be putting up Ja Morant numbers in the paint. Didn't he lead the league in points in the paint in 2006? He'd be like a craftier, more explosive Jalen Brunson with a worse jump shot but better playmaking and slashing.

[Jasper]

Pau
Tony Parker
Manu
Tim Hardaway
Bosh
Pierce NOT HIM
Ben Wallace
Chris Webber
Ray Allen
Mutombo
Zo NOT HIM
Gary Payton
Reggie NOT HIM
Mullin
Rodman

* NOT HIM means he gets the max
** all the rest on them do not get max

[L.Kizzle]

I mean I guess all of them, if they're Hall of Famers right?
Isn't a guy like Bradley Beal making a supermax? He's not a Hall of Famer. He's like a Jeff Malone level guy.

[Kblaze8855]

Pau
Tony Parker
Manu
Tim Hardaway
Bosh
Pierce NOT HIM
Ben Wallace
Chris Webber
Ray Allen
Mutombo
Zo NOT HIM
Gary Payton
Reggie NOT HIM
Mullin
Rodman

* NOT HIM means he gets the max
** all the rest on them do not get max



Reggie, Zo, and Pierce is such a weird sounding trio to take out of that list.

[Dbrog]

Let’s say all are in their primes or entering them. They’re unrestricted free agents. They want every piece of a 5 year 310 contract. 62 million a year on average.

These are the players(obvious people like Dirk, Wade, and Kobe excluded as well as injury guys like Grant Hill and some I know most here wouldn’t know well enough).

Pau
Tony Parker
Manu
Tim Hardaway
Bosh
Pierce
Ben Wallace
Chris Webber
Ray Allen
Mutombo
Zo
Gary Payton
Reggie
Mullin
Rodman



Thats 15. How many would you disrespect(in their opinion anyway) by not immediately offering it? In a world where top…15-20 guys get it…you arguing with any of those hall of famers? If so…who?

Anyone you outright hang up on his agent?

Many of these guys would be max in today's world but there's a reason they weren't in theirs. I bolded the ones I wouldn't really argue with as they have histories of carrying their teams. Even back then there as roughly room to max 2 guys so if I think they could be one of the main guys and have enough flexibility I could surround them with great role players, it's probably worth it. If I was specifically building a 2 guy team (Shaq/Kobe Lakers, Stockton/Malone Jazz etc), I probably would only max Pau and maybe CWebb. Wouldn't believe the rest of the guys are that level of good

[iamgine]

Ben Wallace
Mutombo
Rodman

Would immediately hang up.

The rest...deserve a consideration.

[L.Kizzle]

Ben Wallace
Mutombo
Rodman

Would immediately hang up.

The rest...deserve a consideration.

Some of the top defenders in league history won't get the supermax, but some mediocre scorers will?

[iamgine]

Some of the top defenders in league history won't get the supermax, but some mediocre scorers will?

Those 3 players? Yes. Immediate hang up.

[Norcaliblunt]

Imagine giving a kid with personality of Rodman that kind of money in todays world. Lol.

I can’t even comprehend the shenanigans and how wild things would get.

Combination of Cousins, Morant, and Kyrie on steroids. An on and off the court PR disaster. Lmao. It would be great.

[L.Kizzle]

Imagine giving a kid with personality of Rodman that kind of money in todays world. Lol.

I can’t even comprehend the shenanigans and how wild things would get.

Combination of Cousins, Morant, and Kyrie on steroids. An on and off the court PR disaster. Lmao. It would be great.
86-94 Rodman wasn't a problem. 95 and on, sure.

[Norcaliblunt]

86-94 Rodman wasn't a problem. 95 and on, sure.

Right around the time that max would be coming up. Lol.

[L.Kizzle]

Right around the time that max would be coming up. Lol.

He would behave to get the max, then pull out the wedding dress lol.

[Thorpesaurous]

Prime Tony Parker would be putting up Ja Morant numbers in the paint. Didn't he lead the league in points in the paint in 2006? He'd be like a craftier, more explosive Jalen Brunson with a worse jump shot but better playmaking and slashing.

De'Aaron Fox reminds a little of Parker at his peak. He's a max guy in this league.

A lot on these guys would depend on the situation they find themselves in. Manu would be a really tough cover the way the league operates now, but there aren't many 6th men getting the max. In the right setting though, could he do something similar to what Harden does?

[Jasper]

De'Aaron Fox reminds a little of Parker at his peak. He's a max guy in this league.

A lot on these guys would depend on the situation they find themselves in. Manu would be a really tough cover the way the league operates now, but there aren't many 6th men getting the max. In the right setting though, could he do something similar to what Harden does?

good to see you again on the board

[kawhileonard2]

Definitely not supermaxing Mutombo or Wallace in todays league. Wouldn’t for Rodman either unless he could develop a good 3ball. The rest feel like pretty easy yeses

Deke a 4x DPOY and Wallace as well along with being the only allstar on a team that won it all. Rodman no as he was always the 3rd guy at best.

[HoopsNY]

He didn’t shoot threes but he did shoot…which makes me assume he would shoot them now if required. I say “now” as if he was long ago. And I guess he was since he was drafted like 23 years ago and is already in the hall of fame. But here he is vs a championship Warrior team playing better defensive versions of most of those guys:



https://youtu.be/T_C0TKtoF0A


Hes out there past his prime going past Klay, taking on Iggy, then finishing around Draymond. Young athletic Dray and Klay.

I think a 25 year old TP might be a problem. But again…maybe no more than IT. And a lot of people here would have had a problem giving him super max money.

Parker would have evolved just like anyone did.

From 2002-2012, Parker shot 31% from the distance on 1.4 attempts. From 2013-2017, Parker shot 38% on 1.1 attempts. But during that stretch, he had 30 games where he attempted 3 or more threes, shooting 46% from the distance.

I excluded his last two seasons as not only were they not indicative of anything, he wasn't even a regular starter.

I'll say it time and time again, the data indicates that NBA superstars will, more often than not, evolve. Who would have thought?

[iamgine]

Parker would have evolved just like anyone did.

From 2002-2012, Parker shot 31% from the distance on 1.4 attempts. From 2013-2017, Parker shot 38% on 1.1 attempts. But during that stretch, he had 30 games where he attempted 3 or more threes, shooting 46% from the distance.

I excluded his last two seasons as not only were they not indicative of anything, he wasn't even a regular starter.

I'll say it time and time again, the data indicates that NBA superstars will, more often than not, evolve. Who would have thought?

You can't assume that though. Or soon they will become a very different player, not resembling the original.

Kareem likely would develop the three and better dribbling in the modern era, but what happen to his sky hook? Most likely he never develop them. So now we have a Kareem without sky hook, plays more in the perimeter. That's no longer the Kareem that we know. That's more like Wambenyama.

[HoopsNY]

You can't assume that though. Or soon they will become a very different player, not resembling the original.

Kareem likely would develop the three and better dribbling in the modern era, but what happen to his sky hook? Most likely he never develop them. So now we have a Kareem without sky hook, plays more in the perimeter. That's no longer the Kareem that we know. That's more like Wambenyama.

We don't have to assume. Parker literally went from being a below average three point shooter to a fairly decent one, despite the low volume. And Parker's paint point totals was some of the highest in the league when the league stacked the paint, so naturally he'd have an easier time as spacing increased.

I hear this all the time, "you can't assume," as if the data isn't there for everyone to see.

The league introduced the three point line in the 1980 season. By 1983, the league was shooting a putrid 23%. It was a low efficiency shot that head coaches hated. By 1993, the league was shooting 33%. That's a +10 increase in just a decade.

MJ's first 5 seasons: 20% on 0.8 3PA
Bird's first 5 seasons: 31% on 1.1 3PA
Magic's first 9 seasons: 19% on 0.5 3PA

MJ's next 4 seasons: 34% on 2.4 3PA
Bird's next 7 seasons: 40% on 2.6 3PA
Magic's next 4 seasons: 35% on 2.9 3PA

It's not just them, though. Just look at some of the other guys...

Stockton's first 5 seasons: 26% on 0.5 3PA
Stockton's next 14 seasons: 40% on 1.8 3PA

Ainge's first 5 seasons: 29% on 0.5 3PA
Ainge's next 9 seasons: 39% on 3.6 3PA

Even Craig Hodges shot just 28% in his first 3 seasons. He averaged 1.2 3PA during that time. He doubled it by the '86 season and led the league at a 45% clip.

Parker shooting more 3s doesn't mean he stops driving, nor does it mean he takes 4+ attempts. It just means that he'd likely attempt more than what he normally was throughout his career, but probably shoots a higher percentage since it's something that he'd practice more of, and he'd likely get more open looks.

[RRR3]

We don't have to assume. Parker literally went from being a below average three point shooter to a fairly decent one, despite the low volume. And Parker's paint point totals was some of the highest in the league when the league stacked the paint, so naturally he'd have an easier time as spacing increased.

I hear this all the time, "you can't assume," as if the data isn't there for everyone to see.

The league introduced the three point line in the 1980 season. By 1983, the league was shooting a putrid 23%. It was a low efficiency shot that head coaches hated. By 1993, the league was shooting 33%. That's a +10 increase in just a decade.

MJ's first 5 seasons: 20% on 0.8 3PA
Bird's first 5 seasons: 31% on 1.1 3PA
Magic's first 9 seasons: 19% on 0.5 3PA

MJ's next 4 seasons: 34% on 2.4 3PA
Bird's next 7 seasons: 40% on 2.6 3PA
Magic's next 4 seasons: 35% on 2.9 3PA

It's not just them, though. Just look at some of the other guys...

Stockton's first 5 seasons: 26% on 0.5 3PA
Stockton's next 14 seasons: 40% on 1.8 3PA

Ainge's first 5 seasons: 29% on 0.5 3PA
Ainge's next 9 seasons: 39% on 3.6 3PA

Even Craig Hodges shot just 28% in his first 3 seasons. He averaged 1.2 3PA during that time. He doubled it by the '86 season and led the league at a 45% clip.

Parker shooting more 3s doesn't mean he stops driving, nor does it mean he takes 4+ attempts. It just means that he'd likely attempt more than what he normally was throughout his career, but probably shoots a higher percentage since it's something that he'd practice more of, and he'd likely get more open looks.
Parker came into the league shooting 3s (relatively) often and was told to cut that out of his game by the Spurs because they felt he was bad at them. He was not good from there. Shooting well on such low volume doesn’t mean much, people will let you shoot if they know you’re hesitant to take them. There’s a difference between Tony Parker shooting well from 3 on one attempt per game where he’s not even guarded heavily versus someone who’s actually a consistent threat to pull from there. Outside of his first few years defenses weren’t expecting Parker to shoot the 3. And he was bad at shooting 3s when he took them with any relative volume.

[HoopsNY]

Parker came into the league shooting 3s (relatively) often and was told to cut that out of his game by the Spurs because they felt he was bad at them. He was not good from there. Shooting well on such low volume doesn’t mean much, people will let you shoot if they know you’re hesitant to take them. There’s a difference between Tony Parker shooting well from 3 on one attempt per game where he’s not even guarded heavily versus someone who’s actually a consistent threat to pull from there. Outside of his first few years defenses weren’t expecting Parker to shoot the 3. And he was bad at shooting 3s when he took them with any relative volume.

This is true, but Parker started off with about 2.5 attempts at a 32% clip. Over the next 7 seasons, he shot 30% on just 0.8 attempts. He then shot 38% on 1.1 attempts. And in that stretch, he shot 46% in games with 3 or more attempts (3.4 3PA).

So if Parker is shooting 3+ attempts, or something to close to it, then it's perfectly reasonable to assume he'd be shooting somewhere around 34-35%.

[iamgine]

We don't have to assume. Parker literally went from being a below average three point shooter to a fairly decent one, despite the low volume. And Parker's paint point totals was some of the highest in the league when the league stacked the paint, so naturally he'd have an easier time as spacing increased.

I hear this all the time, "you can't assume," as if the data isn't there for everyone to see.

The league introduced the three point line in the 1980 season. By 1983, the league was shooting a putrid 23%. It was a low efficiency shot that head coaches hated. By 1993, the league was shooting 33%. That's a +10 increase in just a decade.

MJ's first 5 seasons: 20% on 0.8 3PA
Bird's first 5 seasons: 31% on 1.1 3PA
Magic's first 9 seasons: 19% on 0.5 3PA

MJ's next 4 seasons: 34% on 2.4 3PA
Bird's next 7 seasons: 40% on 2.6 3PA
Magic's next 4 seasons: 35% on 2.9 3PA

It's not just them, though. Just look at some of the other guys...

Stockton's first 5 seasons: 26% on 0.5 3PA
Stockton's next 14 seasons: 40% on 1.8 3PA

Ainge's first 5 seasons: 29% on 0.5 3PA
Ainge's next 9 seasons: 39% on 3.6 3PA

Even Craig Hodges shot just 28% in his first 3 seasons. He averaged 1.2 3PA during that time. He doubled it by the '86 season and led the league at a 45% clip.

Parker shooting more 3s doesn't mean he stops driving, nor does it mean he takes 4+ attempts. It just means that he'd likely attempt more than what he normally was throughout his career, but probably shoots a higher percentage since it's something that he'd practice more of, and he'd likely get more open looks.

I don't disagree that they would have taken more 3s with better percentages if they are playing today. Heck, Kareem might take 6+ threes in the modern era with the handle of Giannis. Same with David Robinson.

I'm saying you can't assume that. Not without changing the player.

I think MJ said it best:


“My three-point shooting is something I don’t want to excel at because it takes away from all phases of my game,” Jordan said. “My game is fake, drive to the hole, penetrate, dish off, dunk. When you have that mentality of making threes, you don’t go to the hole as much. You go to the three-point line and start sitting there, waiting for someone to find you. That’s not my mentality, and I don’t want to create it because it takes away from the other parts of my game.”

[sdot_thadon]

Let’s say all are in their primes or entering them. They’re unrestricted free agents. They want every piece of a 5 year 310 contract. 62 million a year on average.

These are the players(obvious people like Dirk, Wade, and Kobe excluded as well as injury guys like Grant Hill and some I know most here wouldn’t know well enough).

Pau
Tony Parker
Manu
Tim Hardaway
Bosh
Pierce
Ben Wallace
Chris Webber
Ray Allen
Mutombo
Zo
Gary Payton
Reggie
Mullin
Rodman



Thats 15. How many would you disrespect(in their opinion anyway) by not immediately offering it? In a world where top…15-20 guys get it…you arguing with any of those hall of famers? If so…who?

Anyone you outright hang up on his agent?

In this era? Honestly I'm only telling the defensive guys to kick rocks, which is a shame but they never get paid like that anymore. Everyone else is better than at least one guy getting that money currently I'd imagine.