Shooting Guard Mt. Rushmore

[RogueBorg]

https://i.ibb.co/PrGrDS9/sg-mt-rushmore.png

This question is dependant on whether you consider Jerry West a SG or a PG. West is listed as a PG in 10 of his 14 seasons, so for arguments sake let's leave West out of this. What is your Mount Rushmore of shooting guards? I would assume the top 3 are most people's lock. Who's that 4th guy? Or maybe you're adamant that West is that guy.

There are no 4A's and 4B's...it's 4 period.

[theman93]

https://media1.giphy.com/media/3rgXBJ0SrWaKr9ogQU/giphy.gif?cid=6c09b9524ux8y5qmpe3h09hwbmj5ilfn3wf9 krpp9wl9vvdw&ep=v1_internal_gif_by_id&rid=giphy.gif&ct=g

[Phoenix]

Iverson not being an advanced stat nerds wet dream is going to eliminate him from discussion on this site.

[warriorfan]

Iverson not being an advanced stat nerds wet dream is going to eliminate him from discussion on this site.

The nerds like to focus on the advanced stats in a vacuum but not the context that goes with it. If you take in account AI’s era, his team make up, role, and the volume he scored at, his efficiency isn’t nearly as bad as it seems.

[tpols]

West for resume. Clyde or Reggie for performance.

[PistolPete]

Maravich is there for sure.

https://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.com/nola.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/1/f6/1f69e7b6-693d-11ea-a23f-cf3ec8698500/5d13dbaf9b67b.image.jpg?crop=1221%2C852%2C3%2C2&resize=1200%2C837&order=crop%2Cresize

[SouBeachTalents]

West for resume. Clyde or Reggie for performance.
Huh? I know they played in different eras, but West’s performance absolutely blows both of theirs away :lol

[SouBeachTalents]

And I know he’s despised, but if we’re not including West, then it’s Harden, with Drexler 5th.

[theman93]

And I know he’s despised, but if we’re not including West, then it’s Harden, with Drexler 5th.

That choker is not on the Mt. Rushmore. Sorry bro.

[Baller234]

I'm gonna be that guy.

Positions as we tend to classify them are usually meaningless. There are a lot of guys throughout history who were listed at "Small Forward" yet played virtually the same as any "Shooting Guard".

[RogueBorg]

West for resume. Clyde or Reggie for performance.

You have to pick one guy to be your 4th.

[RogueBorg]

And I know he’s despised, but if we’re not including West, then it’s Harden, with Drexler 5th.

Is West a PG or a SG? I always had assumed SG but he played 10 seasons at the point.

[bizil]

If Mr. Clutch is considered an SG then it's EASILY HIM! No debate about it! Stylistically in the old school bball sense (before positionless basketball and score first PG's became more of a norm), I saw West as an SG. And the PERFECT SG to be honest with you before MJ came down the pike. Great scorer, passer, rebounder, and defender for his position. Scoring skillset wise, has the most complete scoring skillset for a guard in his era. Skill for skill on both sides of the court, the best guard of all time until MJ came down the pike. While I think Oscar as slightly a better player, two way wise West was the superior player. So I think u gotta go West.

Virtually on most of the reputable basketball sites, West is considered an SG. BUT on Basketball Reference, his main position appears to be PG. But with guys like MJ, Mamba, Wade, West, Harden, Drexler, Ray, and AI MOST of the top 10 GOAT SG's were guys who could swing to the PG. BUT West and to a lesser extent Harden and AI are THE ONES where they were listed as PG's WAY MORE than the other legends I named. Those guys were SG's who had the ability to play the PG well. And played it at times in games. BUT it was never listed as their primary position for a season. With the exception of rookie D Wade. BUT if West is considered a PG, then its gotta be Harden. The guys like Gervin and Miller were outliers in the top 10 GOAT SG's. They are guys u don't want playing the PG spot at ANY POINT! LMAO

[1987_Lakers]

Yea, it's easily Jerry West, would rank him ahead of Wade too. I know he played alot of PG, but how many guys list Jerry West when a greatest PGs discussion comes along? :lol

If not we are not listing him a SG, then it's Harden.

[SaltyMeatballs]

#4 is either West, Harden, or Iverson

[bizil]

Yea, it's easily Jerry West, would rank him ahead of Wade too. I know he played alot of PG, but how many guys list Jerry West when a greatest PGs discussion comes along? :lol

If not we are not listing him a SG, then it's Harden.

I agree 100% West is SO GREAT it took the GOAT of American team sports in MJ to knock him off the SG throne. HELLA GREAT SG's came after West in the 60's and 70's. Guys like Monroe, Pete, Gervin, Thompson, etc. But NONE OF THEM were considered better players peak-prime wise than West.

Because none of them were the TOTAL PACKAGE that West was. That's the edge West had on EVERYBODY until MJ came around. But MJ was a freak athletic 6'6 who ALSO had the all around brilliance and skillset that West had in one package. That's what it took to knock West off his mantle.

And later Kobe as well to knock Jerry to #3 GOAT SG. West and Oscar (for the PG's) set the STANDARD for skill, versatility, and all around ability for guards to follow. It took guys like MJ and Magic to knock them off their thrones at SG and PG respectively. That's a WIDE ASS GAP of years when you think about it. That's how great Jerry and Big O were!

[theman93]

Nobody has done less with more than Harden. His stats are fools gold.

[90sgoat]

Reggie.

If it's over Clyde.

If West is allowed then him over Reggie.

[Jasper]

we know who the first 2 are ... but I have top 6

Iceman at 6

earl the pearl at 5

Pistol Pete at 4

dwade at 3

Kobe at 2

Mj at 1

[1987_Lakers]

Nobody has done less with more than Harden. His stats are fools gold.

He's a shit playoff performer, but this is a weird statement. His teams in Houston never underachieved, they always lost to better teams in the playoffs it seemed. He was also a CP3 injury away from knocking off the Durant-Curry Warriors. That 2018 Rockets team was scary, people forget how good they were.

[iamgine]

#4 is definitely James Harden

[theman93]

He's a shit playoff performer, but this is a weird statement. His teams in Houston never underachieved, they always lost to better teams in the playoffs it seemed. He was also a CP3 injury away from knocking off the Durant-Curry Warriors. That 2018 Rockets team was scary, people forget how good they were.

Never? What about getting knocked out of the first round with HCA and Dwight giving him 26/14 and 3 blocks?

[SouBeachTalents]

Never? What about getting knocked out of the first round with HCA and Dwight giving him 26/14 and 3 blocks?
C'mon bro, it was a 4/5 matchup between two 54 win teams, acting like that's some shocking underachievement is ridiculous :lol They were one miracle Dame shot away from getting a Game 7 at home.

'87 Lakers is right, he's individually underperformed virtually every postseason of his career, but his team has never lost a series they were expected to win. The only exception is 2021, and considering he & Kyrie both got hurt, that would hardly make for a great example.

[theman93]

C'mon bro, it was a 4/5 matchup between two 54 win teams, acting like that's some shocking underachievement is ridiculous :lol They were one miracle Dame shot away from getting a Game 7 at home.

'87 Lakers is right, he's individually underperformed virtually every postseason of his career, but his team has never lost a series they were expected to win. The only exception is 2021, and considering he & Kyrie both got hurt, that would hardly make for a great example.

Who said "shocking"? Nobody but you. If you lose with HCA and your Robin dominating like he's Batman it's an underachievement. Period the end.

Sorry, but the ever-choking playoff performer does not belong on the Mt. Rushmore of SG's. Name me a player who's achieved so little with as much superstar help as he's had?

[1987_Lakers]

Never? What about getting knocked out of the first round with HCA and Dwight giving him 26/14 and 3 blocks?

The fact that the best example you could find was a 4 vs 5 matchup in the first round proves my point.

[SouBeachTalents]

Who said "shocking"? Nobody but you. If you lose with HCA and your Robin dominating like he's Batman it's an underachievement. Period the end.

Sorry, but the ever-choking playoff performer does not belong on the Mt. Rushmore of SG's. Name me a player who's achieved so little with as much superstar help as he's had?
What superstar help did he have in Houston? A still good but clearly past prime CP3? Past prime Dwight? He lost one year with KD when he & Kyrie got hurt, then the last 2 years with Embiid who missed games and is shaping up as the Harden of big men.

[theman93]

The fact that the best example you could find was a 4 vs 5 matchup in the first round proves my point.

No, your point was that he never underachieved. He clearly did.

[1987_Lakers]

No, your point was that he never underachieved. He clearly did.


Nobody has done less with more than Harden.

Lost one series in his prime where he was the favorite to win (To a team with the same record btw), but somehow "nobody has done less with more".

Your original statement is deeply flawed.

[theman93]

What superstar help did he have in Houston? A still good but clearly past prime CP3? Past prime Dwight? He lost one year with KD when he & Kyrie got hurt, then the last 2 years with Embiid who missed games and is shaping up as the Harden of big men.

Dwight in 2014 and Paul were superstars in the postseason. Even after Paul got hurt in 2018, they still should have won game 7 but he couldn’t hit the broad side of the barn.

[theman93]

Lost one series in his prime where he was the favorite to win (To a team with the same record btw), but somehow "nobody has done less with more".

Your original statement is deeply flawed.

Oh the irony. :rolleyes:

[1987_Lakers]

Dwight in 2014 and Paul were superstars in the postseason. Even after Paul got hurt in 2018, they still should have won game 7 but he couldn’t hit the broad side of the barn.

So Harden without CP3 "should have won" a game 7 against a team that had KD, Curry, Klay, & Draymond? :oldlol:

[ELITEpower23]

Kobe, Wade, West, Jordan/Harden

[SouBeachTalents]

Dwight in 2014 and Paul were superstars in the postseason. Even after Paul got hurt in 2018, they still should have won game 7 but he couldn’t hit the broad side of the barn.
Dillon Brooks once averaged 26 ppg in the playoffs too. Calling Dwight a superstar off a 6 game sample size is ridiculous. I agree CP3 was still All-NBA caliber in Houston, but "superstar", like in LeBron/KD/Curry's class? Nah :lol He also missed nearly 50 games over the 2 seasons he was there, including what were kind of the 2 biggest games of Harden's career, so he couldn't even stay on the court consistently.

[theman93]

So Harden without CP3 "should have won" a game 7 against a team that had KD, Curry, Klay, & Draymond? :oldlol:

Yep. They were in complete control of the game at home with the lead and then proceeded to miss 27 straight 3’s.

[theman93]

Dillon Brooks once averaged 26 ppg in the playoffs too. Calling Dwight a superstar off a 6 game sample size is ridiculous. I agree CP3 was still All-NBA caliber in Houston, but "superstar", like in LeBron/KD/Curry's class? Nah :lol He also missed nearly 50 games over the 2 seasons he was there, including what were kind of the 2 biggest games of Harden's career, so he couldn't even stay on the court consistently.

Lol Dwight was 2nd Team All-NBA that year. Likening him to Dillon Brooks who’s never even sniffed an all-star game is a full on retard take brother.

[1987_Lakers]

As far as "doing less with more", I can't think of a better example than '66-'70 Wilt, he won a title during that time, but objectively it should have been around 4 with the talent he had around him.

[SouBeachTalents]

Lol Dwight was 2nd Team All-NBA that year. Likening him to Dillon Brooks who’s never even sniffed an all-star game is a full on retard take brother.
You're the one who specified postseason, not me. I obv would never compare Brooks to Dwight overall :lol And Dwight was good for one season there, but bringing up All-NBA selections for centers for that era is, if not disingenuous, then a very flawed way to judge players. DeAndre Jordan was All-NBA First Team, he and Andre Drummond were All-NBA mainstays during that time.

[1987_Lakers]

Lol Dwight was 2nd Team All-NBA that year. Likening him to Dillon Brooks who’s never even sniffed an all-star game is a full on retard take brother.

Dwight was past his prime and a borderline top 10 player by that time. Blake Griffin also made the All-NBA 2nd team that year and had a better season than Dwight, but I rarely heard people call him a superstar. I guess it depends on your definition of a superstar, but in 2014 in particular, the only players I would consider one are LeBron, Durant, Harden, CP3, & arguably Curry.

[1987_Lakers]

We forgot one thing, Dwight Howard missed out on the All-NBA First team in '14 to the superstar Joakim Noah:bowdown:

[theman93]

You're the one who specified postseason, not me. I obv would never compare Brooks to Dwight overall :lol And Dwight was good for one season there, but bringing up All-NBA selections for centers for that era is, if not disingenuous, then a very flawed way to judge players. DeAndre Jordan was All-NBA First Team, he and Andre Drummond were All-NBA mainstays during that time.

Of course I specified it, because he absolutely was that postseason. You tried to act like the 6 game sample size was some fluke like Dillon Brooks when in reality it wasn’t. If you don’t want to use an All-NBA selection to judge Dwight, then what do you want to use? The eye test? He was still great. Stats? Still great.

[2qr3]

Jerry West, "The Logo," "Mr. Clutch."

His scoring abilities, shooting accuracy, and leadership on the court were second to none. Averaged 27 points per game.

[John8204]

For me...it's Jordan (1), Kobe (2), West (3), and Gervin (4).

People forget just how good Jerry West was in that he came into the league and was basically All-NBA for his entire run. Wade was good but their was a reason he only made first team twice.

[FilmyCogTurner]

West at #3 for me, then Wade, AI.