As annoying as it was at the time this is just the way forwards play now.

[Kblaze8855]

https://youtu.be/DuEcHxyCjko



https://youtu.be/admC7sDgcRQ

[Kblaze8855]

Still wasn’t top 15 in 2003 though(in the incredibly off chance Johnnysic it’s lurking at the moment).

[SATAN]

I dare you to ban Spurs m8. Also, are you saying Walker changed the game? I don't get it.

[Real Men Wear Green]

Walker was a precursor of things to come but the flaw was his efficiency. He was a clever passer and could handle the ball like a guard but he was slightly below average at threes and a bad finisher. The lockout hurt him, he came back from it out of shape. He worked his conditioning back to a respectable level but it's like whatever little bit of explosion he had was gone and he was already dealing with short arms. Still had a good career but if he had always stayed in shape it would have been better. 9 years of 20 and 9 with respectable shooting numbers and he could have made the Hall.

He did dunk on Dikembe though.

[Kblaze8855]

He didn’t change the game because nobody cared and most(myself included) weren’t overly impressed by it. The game just changed to make him closer to the norm. He didn’t shoot as poorly as some would assume either. Aside from 2000 he was shooting like…a normal Luka season from 3.

[Real Men Wear Green]

He didn’t change the game because nobody cared and most(myself included) weren’t overly impressed by it. The game just changed to make him closer to the norm. He didn’t shoot as poorly as some would assume either. Aside from 2000 he was shooting like…a normal Luka season from 3.

The problem was that he would do that while shooting in the low 40s overall. A few seasons he even shot below 40%. Doncic doesn't shoot nearly as bad in overall numbers.

[Kblaze8855]

I’m aware of that I’m just surprised every time I see how poorly he shoots from three. Luckily, I think he has Wade like numbers going to the basket while Walker had a long two problem. But the way we hated him for it I’m surprised to see 36% shooting from three in his better years. Reputation wise it’s as if he was Laker Westbrook for his whole career. I distinctly remember noticing with disgust at one point that he was shooting more threes than he was getting rebounds and it had to be somewhere between 01-03 and he shot like 35 percent for that stretch. Not good, but not noteworthy in its awfulness.

He couldn’t shoot free throws though. I’m sure that hurts some of those mashed up stats.

[1987_Lakers]

https://ballislife.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/antoine14.jpg

[90sgoat]

He sure looks like a star today in those clips.

[Kblaze8855]

He sure looks like a star today in those clips.


He’d be like the midpoint between Dray and Jokic on offense(stress the “on offense”). Occasionally go so cold you just don’t want him to shoot but skilled enough he could post up or drive if you insisted. Plus a nice mix of Jokic/Dray fat face/more muscle than you think. The Draymond aspects pull the Jokic aspects down to where he would still be an all-star just not a top player. He would be comfortably the number 2 Passing Center today and the leagues best ball handling big assuming they played him as one. He’d just **** it all up taking a 8 dribble fadeaway 2 now and then. He’s a superstar playmaking offensive big with juuuuuust enough “What the **** is that….” to dilute it down to being a 4 time all star. Not like a pinch of JR Smith. More like a rounded tablespoon. A heaping scoop of JR.

[Kblaze8855]

And now I feel like someone is gonna take that poorly and not realize how much worse Jokic would be on offense if you mixed his skill set equally with Draymond which is what I’m saying. But I don’t know who else to use. He didn’t play like any big does now.

Almost like a big Lance Stephenson mixed with KAT…and a spritz of washed Westbrook minus the explosiveness. He defies comparison.

[Carbine]

You are wild for mentioning Jokic in the same sentence as Walker.

[tontoz]

https://ballislife.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/antoine14.jpg


Classic thread. I have several pictures saved from that thread. That one popped into my head as soon as I read OP.

[Kblaze8855]

You are wild for mentioning Jokic in the same sentence as Walker.

Let’s say you think Joker is the best offensive player in the league and Dray is the 150th. What’s the midpoint?

If anything I picked too poor an offensive second guy for where he’d actually stand. People just have a hard time with these things. The internet has rewired our minds to be pre offended and seek arguments that aren’t necessary. The midpoint between elite and ok is…probably where you’d find Walker.

[tontoz]

Let’s say you think Joker is the best offensive player in the league and Dray is the 150th. What’s the midpoint?

If anything I picked too poor an offensive second guy for where he’d actually stand. People just have a hard time with these things. The internet has rewired our minds to be pre offended and seek arguments that aren’t necessary. The midpoint between elite and ok is…probably where you’d find Walker.


Wakers scoring efficiency sucked even relative to his own era. I. His entire career he never even had an average year in terms of scoring efficiency relative to his peers.

[Kblaze8855]

Wakers scoring efficiency sucked even relative to his own era. I. His entire career he never even had an average year in terms of scoring efficiency relative to his peers.


And Yao Ming is tall. You mentioned his defining characteristic. Did you mean for it to suggest something? He was shooting whatever he shot as a whatever time all star. Won a bit. Got a ring as a pretty key player. He wasn’t some top legend but he was about as good as second stars(Kobe aside) got in those days. These days the style most of us hated back then would be much more acceptable. They would embrace what we considered his nonsense now. Toss in league manipulated easier offense? The league from then to now is probably more of a style difference than going from Europe today to todays nba. And the players seem fairly adamant it’s easier.

Hed more than hold his own I assume. You disagree?

[tontoz]

And Yao Ming is tall. You mentioned his defining characteristic. Did you mean for it to suggest something? He was shooting whatever he shot as a whatever time all star. Won a bit. Got a ring as a pretty key player. He wasn’t some top legend but he was about as good as second stars(Kobe aside) got in those days. These days the style most of us hated back then would be much more acceptable. They would embrace what we considered his nonsense now. Toss in league manipulated easier offense? The league from then to now is probably more of a style difference than going from Europe today to todays nba. And the players seem fairly adamant it’s easier.

Hed more than hold his own I assume. You disagree?


If he played today he would have to change his game or he wouldn't get many minutes. His efficiency was awful and it wasn't because of 3s, although he was mostly bad from there too. He was terrible on 2s. For his career:

37.6% from 3 to 10 feet.
30.6% from 10-16 feet.
35% from 16 to 3 pt line.

That.is terrible and he only shot 63% from the foul line.

[Full Court]

I dare you to ban Spurs m8. Also, are you saying Walker changed the game? I don't get it.

What a triggered bitch.

:biggums:

[RRR3]

If he played today he would have to change his game or he wouldn't get many minutes. His efficiency was awful and it wasn't because of 3s, although he was mostly bad from there too. He was terrible on 2s. For his career:

37.6% from 3 to 10 feet.
30.6% from 10-16 feet.
35% from 16 to 3 pt line.

That.is terrible and he only shot 63% from the foul line.
One of the all time brick artists Jesus.

[Kblaze8855]

If he played today he would have to change his game or he wouldn't get many minutes. His efficiency was awful and it wasn't because of 3s, although he was mostly bad from there too. He was terrible on 2s. For his career:

37.6% from 3 to 10 feet.
30.6% from 10-16 feet.
35% from 16 to 3 pt line.

That.is terrible and he only shot 63% from the foul line.

You don’t have to be different to perform different in an incredibly different league. Not that he’d really need to. He’d be a pretty rare weapon as a point center. Dray plus handles and a lot more scoring skill. The specifics of the resulting stats would of course depend on the team and system. I don’t imagine he’d take 20 shots because there are both no teams letting dudes play 42 minutes and no teams so lacking in scorers as to require it like those days. A combo of better shooters and rule changes and pace have manufactured a lot of guys who can get you 15-18ppg and barely be worth knowing their names.

A guy like him would likely be setting such people up more than he’d be taking 25 shots but who can say really. All I can really be sure about is he was a bad ft shooter because that’s mental. The rest is too different to even speculate on the specifics.

[tontoz]

You don’t have to be different to perform different in an incredibly different league. Not that he’d really need to. He’d be a pretty rare weapon as a point center. Dray plus handles and a lot more scoring skill. The specifics of the resulting stats would of course depend on the team and system. I don’t imagine he’d take 20 shots because there are both no teams letting dudes play 42 minutes and no teams so lacking in scorers as to require it like those days. A combo of better shooters and rule changes and pace have manufactured a lot of guys who can get you 15-18ppg and barely be worth knowing their names.

A guy like him would likely be setting such people up more than he’d be taking 25 shots but who can say really. All I can really be sure about is he was a bad ft shooter because that’s mental. The rest is too different to even speculate on the specifics.


:oldlol:

Did you seriously just compare him to Dray, one of the best defenders in the league? If Dray's defense was on Walker's level he would be playing in China. Dray is not in the league because of his offense.

Walker was a bad shooter from everywhere and a bad defender. Not a great combination. Out of the league at 32 when a lot of guys are in their prime.

[Real Men Wear Green]

Saying Toine was a "bad" defender goes too far. He wasn't particularly good at it but it's not like every 4 in the league went off for 30 against him. He was good enough to not be a liability there.

[tpols]

He’d be like the midpoint between Dray and Jokic on offense(stress the “on offense”). Occasionally go so cold you just don’t want him to shoot but skilled enough he could post up or drive if you insisted. Plus a nice mix of Jokic/Dray fat face/more muscle than you think. The Draymond aspects pull the Jokic aspects down to where he would still be an all-star just not a top player. He would be comfortably the number 2 Passing Center today and the leagues best ball handling big assuming they played him as one. He’d just **** it all up taking a 8 dribble fadeaway 2 now and then. He’s a superstar playmaking offensive big with juuuuuust enough “What the **** is that….” to dilute it down to being a 4 time all star. Not like a pinch of JR Smith. More like a rounded tablespoon. A heaping scoop of JR.

Cousins Westbrook hybrid... no bueno.

[Kblaze8855]

:oldlol:

Did you seriously just compare him to Dray, one of the best defenders in the league? If Dray's defense was on Walker's level he would be playing in China. Dray is not in the league because of his offense.

Walker was a bad shooter from everywhere and a bad defender. Not a great combination. Out of the league at 32 when a lot of guys are in their prime.


I thought it was clear I meant offense. He’s better at the things Dray does on offense but with an all star skill set scoring wise to deploy as a coach sees fit.

[Kblaze8855]

Cousins Westbrook hybrid... no bueno.


Amazing the caliber of player someone can be while being used as a negative example.

[tpols]

Amazing the caliber of player someone can be while being used as a negative example.

It's more in line style wise than jokic (GOAT IQ) and dray (good IQ). Josh Smith Westbrook cousins etc.

[tontoz]

I thought it was clear I meant offense. He’s better at the things Dray does on offense but with an all star skill set scoring wise to deploy as a coach sees fit.


Dray has been a net negative on offense for years but is such a positive on defense that he is a net positive overall. If Dray was a below average defender he would be unplayable.

One advantage that Dray has over Walker is self awareness. He knows he is a bad shooter therefore doesn't take a lot of shots. Walker was a bad shooter but still shot a lot.

Walker was lucky that his career pre-dated teams focusing on analytics. I think he was definitely better off in that era compared to this one.

[Clifton]

What bothered me about him at the time, besides the shot selection, was that his finishing in the paint didn't inspire confidence.

I don't have the numbers for guys' conversion rates in the paint. I just know that when I watched, some guys always seemed to blow a layup at the wrong time, and that has a negative effect on rhythm and morale that people don't talk about.

That was the thing with Gilbert Arenas growing up a Wizards fan. I wanted to love him and trust him, but every time he got in the paint I got nervous. I never felt like there was one safe, dependable shot he would always make. Everything was hit or miss. Antoine was like that. He could make any shot or miss any shot, and did.

[PeroAntic]

Antoine was a poor man's Carmelo Anthony.

[eliteballer]

You always find a way to bring up Toine' and his 3 point chucking.