What is the Spence-Crawford moment in the NBA?

[1987_Lakers]

Two dominant teams meet up in the playoffs, but the end result is utter domination.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_zPaYp8XN9Y

[3ba11]

.

* B2B champions and historic 3-peat pursuers vs Spurs in 2014

* Lakers vs Denver in 2023

* the so-called "GOAT accomplishment"' team and defending champion super-team vs 2017 Warriors


Ultimately, pressure fighters are like ball-dominators because both have a one-dimensional approach that gets exposed by better brands - Crawford (MJ) > Spence (Bron).. aka boxer/expert jumpshooter > pressure-fighter/ball-dominator

[SouBeachTalents]

The best example to me is the Broncos/Seahawks Super Bowl from 2013. That was supposed to be a matchup of two dominant teams, a historically great offense vs. the best defense in the league, and literally from the opening play of the game, the Seahawks absolutely massacred them.

[1987_Lakers]

The best example to me is the Broncos/Seahawks Super Bowl from 2013. That was supposed to be a matchup of two dominant teams, a historically great offense vs. the best defense in the league, and literally from the opening play of the game, the Seahawks absolutely massacred them.

Hard to find an NBA example, but the Raiders-Redskins super bowl in the 80's is also a good one. Redskins broke the NFL record for most points in a season at the time, were 14-2 (both losses coming by 1 point) and had a decent defense as well, but the Raiders destroyed them.

Funny enough, the Raiders got destroyed by the Bucs almost 20 years later when many thought the Raiders would win.

[SouBeachTalents]

Hard to find an NBA example, but the Raiders-Redskins super bowl in the 80's is also a good one. Redskins broke the NFL record for most points in a season at the time, were 14-2 (both losses coming by 1 point) and had a decent defense as well, but the Raiders destroyed them.

Funny enough, the Raiders got destroyed by the Bucs almost 20 years later when many thought the Raiders would win.
I actually think you chose the wrong 80's SB. In '84 the 15-1 49ers went up against the 14-2 Dolphins, with Marino coming off his historic 48 TD season, and completely spanked them by 3 touchdowns.

Switching it up to tennis, I'm sure most would go with the '08 French Open Final where Federer won 4 total games, but Nadal would've been a huge favorite to win that match. Instead I'd go with the the '19 Australian Open Final where Djokovic absolutely wiped the floor with Nadal, never winning even 4 games in a set.

[3ba11]

The only reason the 3 examples that I provided might not meet your criteria is because Lebron's skillset doesn't yield towering favorites - 20 years confirms that he can't mostly win with any lineup and yields perennial underdogs regardless of cast.. If the 14' Heat or 16' Cavs were dominant favorites like they were expected to be, then these examples would fit your criteria.

The reason that Lebron has perennial underdogs regardless of cast is because his skillset of abnormal ball-dominance for his size/position (point guard hold-time and assisted rate) turned everyone to spot-up shooter (decreased their APG and increased their assisted rate), which hindered teammate development, chemistry and strategic capacity/coaching (low ball movement compared to Spurs, Warriors, Nuggets, Mavs, Magic, Celtics, Pistons).. So he always need exorbitant help to meet the perennial underdog expectation that occurs after people see his teams play.

[Mask the Embiid]

The 2017 cavs. They literally steam rolled the East. The Warriors beat them so badly, i couldn't even believe it yo. They showed the world that no other team even at their best is even in the same realm as them. They humiliated Deron Williams so bad, it looked like he didn't even know how to play basketball. Steph showed the giant chasm in talent between him and Kyrie. Kevin Love got exposed as the flawed player he is. Kevin showed that if he has a better team he can replicate lebron stat line for the most part better than anyone else in the league.


They embarrassed that cavs team just like crawford did to spence....on the biggest stage, the Finals smh. Crawford made this man look like an amateur....im still stunned.....its no way......its no way the gap between them is that wide.....its no way bro

[3ba11]

The 2017 cavs. They literally steam rolled the East. The Warriors beat them so badly, i couldn't even believe it yo. They showed the world that no other team even at their best is even in the same realm as them. They humiliated Deron Williams so bad, it looked like he didn't even know how to play basketball. Steph showed the giant chasm in talent between him and Kyrie. Kevin Love got exposed as the flawed player he is. Kevin showed that if he has a better team he can replicate lebron stat line for the most part better than anyone else in the league.


They embarrassed that cavs team just like crawford did to spence....on the biggest stage, the Finals smh. Crawford made this man look like an amateur....im still stunned.....its no way......its no way the gap between them is that wide.....its no way bro


https://i.makeagif.com/media/6-08-2018/hSlD8J.gif



https://i.makeagif.com/media/7-30-2022/nfNb5D.gif

[Wally450]

Cavs Warriors MLK Day 2016? Game in Cleveland, lots of hype around it after the Finals. GS destroys Cleveland by like 40.

As for a series? Id have to do some thinking.

[Johnny32]

Probably what LeBron did to Stephanie in the 2016 finals. That boy was so traumatized by lebron's blocks throughout the series that by gm 7 final min he refused to drive on slow footed Kevin Love because lerimprotector was waiting.

[Manny98]

2017 NBA finals

I believe that was the best team LeBron has ever played on they just happened to run into the greatest team in NBA history

[1987_Lakers]

No mention of the ‘83 Finals?

[gonzaldo]

It's 2014 really the last 3 games were all blowouts

[ShawkFactory]

Yea I think the 2014 finals is probably the closest answer.

Maybe 1991 finals.

[iamgine]

'95 finals. Hakeem/Drexler swept Shaq/Penny.

[3ba11]

2017 NBA finals

the 17' Warriors were the greatest team in NBA history





How many wins for an NBA team if the best scorer on the team was Draymond Green?

Obviously, the answer is 0 wins... Maybe 1 in a miracle game

Yet Love won 40 games in the West with no help - let that sink in - that isn't far from Lillard or many other 1st options or even Lebron in 2008 before he received the all-star spacing that his game needs in 2009 and thereafter.

Accordingly, Love was considered a franchise player and far superior than Klay or Dray ever were.. Unfortunately, Lebron's skillset of abnormal ball-dominance for his size/position cratered Love's game and role - even the ISH poster and prominent GOAT-hater "PejatheSerb" concedes this fact.

So the reality is that only Lebron had 3 franchise players on 1 team (super-team), but this comparable talent to the Warriors failed to reach a dominant caliber because Lebron's skillset yields weaker chemistry and brand of ball.. aka Curry can dominate while the ball moves, while Lebron's domination sacrifices brand of ball (ball movement) and the aforementioned chemistry with Love.




2017 NBA finals

the 17' Warriors were the greatest team in NBA history






Finals teams that added a league MVP

82' Sixers......... 3 HOF plus Andrew Toney
16' Warriors...... 3 HOF


Anyone that watched those Sixers knows that Andrew Toney was often the best player on the floor, while Cheeks, Mo, Dr. J and Moses were HOF's

So the 83' Sixers or 85' Lakers had more on-paper talent than the Warriors, while the difference in record can be attributed to expansion that diluted the league to 30 teams and therefore created a lot of cupcake teams and easy nights.

(btw, in addition to having 2 top five all-time players, the 85' Lakers had goat depth, defenders or all-time scoring options throughout the rest of the cast).

[ShawkFactory]

How many wins for an NBA team if the best scorer on the team was Draymond Green?

Obviously, the answer is 0 wins... Maybe 1 in a miracle game

Yet Love won 40 games in the West with no help - let that sink in - that isn't far from Lillard or many other 1st options or even Lebron in 2008 before he received the all-star spacing that his game needs in 2009 and thereafter.

Accordingly, Love was considered a franchise player and far superior than Klay or Dray ever were.. Unfortunately, Lebron's skillset of abnormal ball-dominance for his size/position cratered Love's game and role - even the ISH poster and prominent GOAT-hater "PejatheSerb" concedes this fact.

So the reality is that only Lebron had 3 franchise players on 1 team (super-team), but this comparable talent to the Warriors failed to reach a dominant caliber because Lebron's skillset yields weaker chemistry and brand of ball.. aka Curry can dominate while the ball moves, while Lebron's domination sacrifices brand of ball (ball movement) and the aforementioned chemistry with Love.







Finals teams that added a league MVP

82' Sixers......... 3 HOF plus Andrew Toney
16' Warriors...... 3 HOF


Anyone that watched those Sixers knows that Andrew Toney was often the best player on the floor, while Cheeks, Mo, Dr. J and Moses were HOF's

So the 83' Sixers or 85' Lakers had more on-paper talent than the Warriors, while the difference in record can be attributed to expansion that diluted the league to 30 teams and therefore created a lot of cupcake teams and easy nights.

(btw, in addition to having 2 top five all-time players, the 85' Lakers had goat depth, defenders or all-time scoring options throughout the rest of the cast).

You can certainly make an argument for the 83 sixers. The point is the 17 Warriors are on a short list of greatest teams ever.

[ArbitraryWater]

The 2017 cavs. They literally steam rolled the East. The Warriors beat them so badly, i couldn't even believe it yo. They showed the world that no other team even at their best is even in the same realm as them. They humiliated Deron Williams so bad, it looked like he didn't even know how to play basketball. Steph showed the giant chasm in talent between him and Kyrie. Kevin Love got exposed as the flawed player he is. Kevin showed that if he has a better team he can replicate lebron stat line for the most part better than anyone else in the league.


They embarrassed that cavs team just like crawford did to spence....on the biggest stage, the Finals smh. Crawford made this man look like an amateur....im still stunned.....its no way......its no way the gap between them is that wide.....its no way bro

yea but tbh the series coud have easiy been tied 2-2 and KD shoud have been in fou troube in game 5 when they were down 7 2nd quarter, coud have made it a doube digit ead to HT.

ironicay, i fee ike in the NBA there are more underdogs winning in a big fashion, ike say the 2011 mavs over the akers, than eveny matched/anticipated series turning into bowouts.


i cant recall many here.

[ArbitraryWater]

Maybe 1991 ECF

[Axe]

Probably what LeBron did to Stephanie in the 2016 finals. That boy was so traumatized by lebron's blocks throughout the series that by gm 7 final min he refused to drive on slow footed Kevin Love because lerimprotector was waiting.
:applause:

[ShawkFactory]

The point is that Lebron's super-teams were supposed to be on the same short list but instead they were only favorites on paper (preseason favorites) - once actual basketball started and people saw his teams' shitty chemistry and brand of ball, they fell to underdog status every year.

And Love was a franchise player that was superior to Klay or Dray, but Lebron's game destroyed Love, so the Cavs were winning 53 games instead of being a historic team.. Again, lebron's skillset is inherently suboptimal, so a clash of titans (2017) turns into a mismatch where Lebron's team is a big underdog.

Fun fact. The Warriors -167 preseason odds that year were by far the lowest ever. In fact, no other non warrior team has even been less than even odds (warriors were every year from 17-19).

The closet were the 97 bulls at exactly even odds. 04 Lakers were +120.

[3ba11]

The point is the 17 Warriors are on a short list of greatest teams ever.


It isn't a short list - many teams are on that list - no one thinks the 83' Sixers are necessarily better than the 86' Celtics, 96' Bulls, 91' Bulls, 2000 Lakers, 23' Nuggets, 88' Lakers, 90' Pistons, 2014 Spurs, 17' Warriors and possibly other teams.

And the point is that Lebron's super-teams were supposed to be on this list but instead they were only favorites on paper (preseason favorites) - once the actual basketball started and people saw his teams' shitty chemistry and brand of ball, they fell to underdog status every year.

And Love was a franchise player that was superior to Klay or Dray, but Lebron's game destroyed Love, so the Cavs were winning 53 games in 2017 instead of being a historic team - that's on Lebron 100%.. Again, lebron's skillset is inherently suboptimal, so a clash of titans (2017) turns into a mismatch where Lebron's team is a big underdog.

[ArbitraryWater]

It isn't a short list - many teams are on that list - no one thinks the 83' Sixers are necessarily better than the 86' Celtics, 96' Bulls, 91' Bulls, 2000 Lakers, 23' Nuggets, 88' Lakers, 90' Pistons, 2014 Spurs, 17' Warriors and possibly other teams.

And the point is that Lebron's super-teams were supposed to be on this list but instead they were only favorites on paper (preseason favorites) - once the actual basketball started and people saw his teams' shitty chemistry and brand of ball, they fell to underdog status every year.

And Love was a franchise player that was superior to Klay or Dray, but Lebron's game destroyed Love, so the Cavs were winning 53 games in 2017 instead of being a historic team - that's on Lebron 100%.. Again, lebron's skillset is inherently suboptimal, so a clash of titans (2017) turns into a mismatch where Lebron's team is a big underdog.


yea they do

[ShawkFactory]

The 17 Warriors have the 4th highest single season SRS ever (71 Bucks, 72 lakers, 96 bulls) despite KD missing 20 games. Swept through the West and only lost after being up 3-0 in the finals.

They’re on a short list.

[3ba11]

They’re on a short list.





SRS has many flaws and many people think the Russell Celtics, 86' Celtics, 96' Bulls or 88' Lakers are equal or better than the 83' Sixers or 17' Warriors.

So the list isn't short.

The question is why aren't any of Lebron's teams on the short list?... We know that his teams had comparable or even greater on-paper talent, aka 3 franchise players with Love at 3rd option - the problem is that Lebron's skillset wasn't capable of good chemistry with Love and destroyed him, so that prevented the team from flirting with 70 wins like his peers Curry or Kawhi.. So the Finals was a big mismatch instead of a clash of titans like the 80's

[ShawkFactory]

SRS has many flaws and many people think the 86' Celtics, 96' Bulls or 88' Lakers are equal or better than the 83' Sixers or 17' Warriors.

So the list isn't short.

The question is why aren't any of Lebron's teams on the short list?... We know that his teams had comparable or even greater on-paper talent, aka 3 franchise players with Love at 3rd option - the problem is that Lebron's skillset destroyed Love and wasn't capable of good chemistry with Love and destroyed him, so that prevented the team from flirting with 70 wins like his peers Curry or Kawhi

The 86 Celtics, 87 Lakers, and 96 Bulls are also on the short list. Add the 17 Warriors and that’s probably the most commonly agreed upon Mount Rushmore of NBA teams.

[3ba11]

The 86 Celtics, 87 Lakers, and 96 Bulls are also on the short list. Add the 17 Warriors and that’s probably the most commonly agreed upon Mount Rushmore of NBA teams.


And there's other teams on the list as well, but why aren't Lebron's teams on the list?

What was lacking?

He had 20 years with more iterations of lineups and star teammates than most guys are fortunate enough to play with - so why no teams on the short list?.. What was lacking?

[ShawkFactory]

And there's other teams on the list as well, but why aren't Lebron's teams on the list?

What was lacking?

He had 20 years with more iterations of lineups and star teammates than most guys are fortunate enough to play with - so why no teams on the short list?.. What was lacking?

By definition Mount Rushmore is 4. So no there aren’t other teams on the list.

[3ba11]

By definition Mount Rushmore is 4. So no there aren’t other teams on the list.


There's other teams that could be argued into the top 4 instead of the ones you listed - there's no short list - it's a decent-sized list

And your repeated avoidance (super-weird) of my question about Lebron is all I need to see.. Have a good day (living in obvious denial and delusion)

[ShawkFactory]

There's other teams that could be argued into the top 4 instead of the ones you listed - there's no short list - it's a decent-sized list

And your repeated avoidance (super-weird) of my question about Lebron is all I need to see.. Have a good day (living in obvious denial and delusion)

Yea that’s why I said most commonly agreed upon. The Warriors have a stronger argument than anyone else, hence why they’re there.

I’m not avoiding anything about Lebron. The point isn’t about him so I’m not going to argue cyclical irrelevance.

[3ba11]

Yea that’s why I said most commonly agreed upon. The Warriors have a stronger argument than anyone else, hence why they’re there.

I’m not avoiding anything about Lebron. The point isn’t about him so I’m not going to argue cyclical irrelevance.


It's about Lebron because the 2017 Finals fit the thread title.. Ditto the 2014 Finals...

[ShawkFactory]

It's about Lebron because the 2017 Finals fit the thread title.. Ditto the 2014 Finals...

It doesn’t though. You gave a bad, yet predictable answer.

The 2014 finals is more relevant as the teams were more evenly matched.

[3ba11]

It doesn’t though. You gave a bad, yet predictable answer.

The 2014 finals is more relevant as the teams were more evenly matched.


A team with Draymond as the best scorer would win zero games, while Love won 40 in the West with no help, so Love was considered a franchise player in 2015 and far superior to Dray and Klay.

Accordingly, the 15' and 16' Cavs were viewed as having a significant talent edge over the Warriors - the Warriors weren't even expected to be good heading into the 15' season.. So KD was offsetting a significant talent deficit that the Warriors had - he wasn't providing a dominant talent edge - the Warriors' dominance stemmed from their superior brand of ball just like the Spurs, Mavs and Nuggets.. All these teams dominated Lebron with dominant brand of ball, not a dominant talent edge.

The brand of ball issue stems from the fact that Lebron's skillset forces a coach to put the ball in his hands, so his teams aren't capable of the best brand of ball used by the Nuggets, Spurs, Warriors or Mavs to beat Lebron like a drum.. Lebron's inferior brand of ball reduces teammates to spot-up role, which includes franchise guys like Love - his reduction was a primary driver of the embarrassing 53-win record in 2017 while Kawhi/Curry flirted with 70 wins

[ShawkFactory]

A team with Draymond as the best scorer would win zero games, while Love won 40 in the West with no help, so Love was considered a franchise player in 2015 and far superior to Dray and Klay.

Accordingly, the 15' and 16' Cavs were viewed as having a significant talent edge over the Warriors - the Warriors weren't even expected to be good heading into the 15' season.. So KD was offsetting a significant talent deficit that the Warriors had - he wasn't providing a dominant talent edge - the Warriors' dominance stemmed from their superior brand of ball just like the Spurs, Mavs and Nuggets.. All these teams dominated Lebron with dominant brand of ball, not a dominant talent edge.

The brand of ball issue stems from the fact that Lebron's skillset forces a coach to put the ball in his hands, so his teams aren't capable of the best brand of ball used by the Nuggets, Spurs, Warriors or Mavs to beat Lebron like a drum.. Lebron's inferior brand of ball reduces teammates to spot-up role, which includes franchise guys like Love - his reduction was a primary driver of the embarrassing 53-win record in 2017 while Kawhi/Curry flirted with 70 wins

Literally zero relevance in any of this. At all.

[3ba11]

Literally zero relevance in any of this. At all.


The 2017 Finals was supposed to be a clash of titans but instead it was a massive mismatch

It was a massive mismatch because Lebron's skillset has always yielded perennial underdogs regardless of cast.. It's almost impossible to put a team around him that can be favored heading into the Finals.. His veteran super-team was underdog to baby Westbrick or 37-year old Duncan.

And this year's WCF was like a mini Crawford/Spence because it was a huge matchup of 2 hot teams.. Yet we saw the result.. And the Lakers were considered to have more on-paper talent as usual, but the Nuggets won via brand of ball just like the Spurs, Warriors or Mavs... It's a huge pattern of Lebron's career (bron-ball getting destroyed by superior brands)

[LeGoat4Life]

Probably Lebron and the headband