So where we ranking Jamal Murray going into next season?

[Kblaze8855]

Last year I sparked an argument with someone who will not be named merely saying he was good despite his salary.

I assume that question is settled. He just did 26/7/5 on a title run. I don’t know what that makes him to you.

What’s a reasonable all time comparison level wise in your eyes? Manu? Rip? Deron Williams? Ray Allen? Marbury? Arenas? Give me an old guy you consider a fair comparison level wise.

Or keep it modern if you rather. Paul George, Harden(now), Ja, Shai…Mitchell.

I am totally clueless where people are putting that guy. Old school or new. Just give me a guard you find him comparable to level wise. Not style wise. I want someone you consider roughly on the Jamal Murray tier all time or current so I know basically where you put him.

[FultzNationRISE]

Very versatile scorer for his size and deceptively good athlete, hes a decent playmaker when he tries to be but I dont think playmaking comes naturally to him.

His game and athleticism are a LOT like Kobe’s actually, he just doesnt have the same ceiling because hes smaller. But I actually would compare him with Kobe. Which might not make sense to people who see Kobe as a Top 10 GOAT candidate, which I dont. But as players, physically mentally and skillwise theyre very very similar.

[FultzNationRISE]

Level wise I dont see what separates him from Ja Morant.

[Kblaze8855]

Level wise I could see someone going as low as peak Mike Bibby but I don’t imagine anyone else goes as high as Kobe. I’m sure statistically he was just better than a lot of Kobe runs but that’s a very different thing.

[warriorfan]

He’s underrated because he’s missed so much time with bad injuries and has had to battle back from them. Another factor is I need to check game logs but it felt like he has quite a few dud games where he doesn’t bring much to the table. He obviously has his same share of explosive games which is why he still was able to average 27. But it feels like it’s a little of feast or famine with him. Great player but would be nice to see him get a little more consistent.

[FultzNationRISE]

Level wise I could see someone going as low as peak Mike Bibby but I don’t imagine anyone else goes as high as Kobe. I’m sure statistically he was just better than a lot of Kobe runs but that’s a very different thing.

I agree altho I will say part of that is a credit to him that in the games where Joker was just in God mode, Murray didnt try to excessively force his own imprint on the game. So it looked like he didnt do much. In the games where they needed a big contribution from him, they usually got it.

He’s a very confident and emotional player, in fact I think he even mentioned part of the challenge for him playing with Joker is not to get too restless or impatient just playing pick n roll all the time, because it’s not the most fun but he knows they need it to win. So he’s definitely sacrificed a bit of the consistent highlight potential some other guys get, to make Denver a championship team. Which he deserves a lot of credit for.

If you remove Joker they obviously become a much worse team, but I think Murrays statistical consistency goes way up.

[FultzNationRISE]

Level wise I could see someone going as low as peak Mike Bibby but I don’t imagine anyone else goes as high as Kobe. I’m sure statistically he was just better than a lot of Kobe runs but that’s a very different thing.

Is it?

:confusedshrug:

[Kblaze8855]

It is. You go look at Jordan’s last mvp season and Isiah Thomas that last year in Boston it isn’t statistically much different. There’s a range of stats a lot of people can get without being the same level of player. You’re only gonna go so far past 30ppg. Being statistically similar doesn’t make your level of basketball similar. Awful lot of people did Duncan numbers and better.

[FultzNationRISE]

It is. You go look at Jordan’s last mvp season and Isiah Thomas that last year in Boston it isn’t statistically much different. There’s a range of stats a lot of people can get without being the same level of player. You’re only gonna go so far past 30ppg. Being statistically similar doesn’t make your level of basketball similar. Awful lot of people did Duncan numbers and better.

Thats true altho I think the onus is on anyone asserting Kobe and Murray to be worlds apart to then explain why, given their comparable playoff production.

Im not disagreeing that stats dont tell everything. But Murray is very skilled, aggressive, and more athletic than he appears. If he was a couple inches taller I dont see much that would separate him from Bean. So whatever extent that couple inches makes their impacts different, I dont know… but Im not sure it’s much.

[warriorfan]

This was insane

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kHf7fUC4cRI


(funny coincidence after the kobe references made in the thread, this auto played after the murray video :lol https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dHm_RElrlz0)

[Carbine]

You'd have to be a lunatic to say he is a Bibby level player right now.

I think he is right there with Lillard. When healthy.

[theman93]

Probably on a similar level to De'Aaron Fox, who was 3rd Team All-NBA

[elementally morale]

Different style but at least Tim Hardaway good. Or Joe Dumars / Dennis Johnson good.

[ShawkFactory]

He's a really tough one to rank. Like someone previously said, he can still be inconsistent and in games where he isn't hitting shots he doesn't offer too much else. At least compared to some other top players.

I'm not sure that he's better than Haliburton or Garland but since he did just have a fantastic playoff run for the second time now it's weird to put him in their tier.

I still will.

[iamgine]

I'd say in the 2023 playoff he's around prime Chauncey Billups level.

[Full Court]

He's one of the best second options in the league, if not the very best.

However, I don't know that he has what it takes to lead a team to a finals without a Jokic running things. For that reason I see him as elite, but one tier lower than the Jokics and Giannises. His potential is probably Scottie Pippen.

[RRR3]

Idk he’s a completely different player in the playoffs than he is in the regular season so which version of him are you ranking?

[elementally morale]

Idk he’s a completely different player in the playoffs than he is in the regular season so which version of him are you ranking?

Playoffs, obviously. He is currently as good as his prolonged ceiling is. A more than 20 game sample is enough. As for the all time greats you remember mostly playoffs anyway.

[Boki4MVP]

Prime Kevin Martin

[90sgoat]

He's the Tony Parker to Jokic.

Like Parker, in the right fit, he is a top 5 player at his position, but without his Duncan, he might only be a top 20.

[Carbine]

He's the Tony Parker to Jokic.

Like Parker, in the right fit, he is a top 5 player at his position, but without his Duncan, he might only be a top 20.

Murray wouldn't go from a top 5 PG to 20 without Jokic.

If anything, with more shots and being "the man" his stats would increase and make him "better"

20th ranked PG is like Mike Conley. He is obviously much better right now than Conley regardless of Jokic or not.

[Real Men Wear Green]

Ignoring the durability aspect I put his impact on par with Cav Kyrie Irving.

[ShawkFactory]

Murray wouldn't go from a top 5 PG to 20 without Jokic.

If anything, with more shots and being "the man" his stats would increase and make him "better"

20th ranked PG is like Mike Conley. He is obviously much better right now than Conley regardless of Jokic or not.

I'm not so sure. Playing with Jokic, like Duncan, is not going to really affect the number of shots you get. Neither need to feed their own offensive game to have an impact. Without Jokic maybe he gets an extra couple shots but a lot of them would be lower quality so the net effect wouldn't be much different IMO.

[Carbine]

It's just a numbers game. Jokic shot distribution would go somewhere, with Murray and MPJ being the two players taking up half of those looks.

The team would be far worse and he would be big numbers no winning guard.

[ShawkFactory]

I mean yea maybe he goes from 22-23 to 25-26 ppg. But the efficiency drop plus the team being way worse will make that mean nothing to anyone. People would probably think worse of him actually.