25 greatest defenders in NBA history, ranked

[RogueBorg]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nba/25-greatest-defenders-in-nba-history-ranked/ar-AA1eUCBq?ocid=entnewsntp&pc=U531&cvid=136b563bbced4acf892eef6e127c4bf0&ei=24


In the game of basketball, which is known for rim-rattling dunks and offensive explosions, defense has become a forgotten art. Defense is half of the game, and having a game-changing stopper is oftentimes the thing that can push teams over the top. The saying goes that “defense wins championships,” and that has been proven true time and time again. There have been a lot of fantastic defenders throughout the history of the National Basketball Association’s existence; below are the 25 greatest defenders in NBA history.

25. Tony Allen
In a list dominated by rim-protecting bigs, Tony Allen sticks out as a wing defender on the perimeter. Kobe Bryant crowned Allen as the defender who gave him the most problems throughout his storied NBA career. Allen earned a spot on six All-NBA Defensive teams; three as a first-teamer and three as a second-teamer.

24. Michael Cooper
Michael Cooper is the forgotten piece from those dominant Showtime Los Angeles Lakers squads of the 1980s. The 1987 Defensive Player of the Year, Cooper used his length and aggression to dominate on defense en route to eight All-Defensive selections and five championships.

23. Bobby Jones
Nicknamed “The Secretary of Defense”, Bobby Jones was named to eight NBA All-Defensive First Teams and two additional ABA All-Defensive First Teams. Jones is one of the best hustle players the game has ever seen and was always willing to do the little things on defense to help his team win.

22. Giannis Antetokounmpo
Giannis Antetokounmpo’s defensive resume is far from complete, but he has still impressed greatly on that end of the floor through his first ten seasons in the league. The two-time MVP has a unique blend of size and fluidity. Standing at 7 feet tall, “The Greek Freak” can defend in the paint or guard on the perimeter. He has been named to five total All-Defensive teams and was the 2020 Defensive Player of the Year.

21. Alvin Robertson
Alvin Robertson thrice led the league in steals and had three-plus steals per game in five of his first seven seasons in the league. He was the Defensive Player of the Year in 1986 and was named to six total All-Defensive teams. He is the only guard to ever record a quadruple-double.

20. Mark Eaton
Mark Eaton is one of the greatest rim protectors the game has ever seen. In the 1984-85 season, Eaton set the all-time record for total blocks (456) and blocks per game (5.6) in a season. The 7-foot 4-inch behemoth is also tied for the most seasons being the block leader with four. He is a two-time Defensive Player of the Year and a five-time All-Defensive team member.

19. Kobe Bryant
Bryant took pride in being a two-way superstar. The five-time champion was also a nine-time First Team All-Defense selection and three-time Second-Team member. He did all of this while being one of the greatest offensive engines of all time. Injuries and high usage never slowed down Bryant, and he always took on the toughest defensive challenges.

18. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
Few players have a resume as impressive as Kareem Abdul-Jabbar’s. The league’s second all-time leading scorer led the league in blocks for a record four times and was on 11 All-Defensive teams.

17. Draymond Green
Draymond Green was the Defensive Player of the Year in 2017, the same year that he was the steals leader, an impressive feat for a forward, as that title usually goes to guards. Even though he was undersized for his position, the Golden State Warriors dynasty small-ball death lineup featured Green at the center position. Green has been named to eight All-Defensive teams.

16. Alonzo Mourning
Alonzo Mourning won back-to-back Defensive Player of the Year Awards in 1999 and 2000. Mourning had a great defensive peak, and the center led the league in blocks during both of his DPOY seasons, although he somehow only made it on two All-Defensive teams.

15. David Robinson
“The Admiral” came into the league with the pedal to the medal. David Robinson was dominant early, averaging at least three blocks per game in each of his first seven seasons. Robinson was the Defensive Player of the Year in 1992, the same year he led the league with 4.5 blocked shots per game, and earned a spot on eight All-Defensive teams.

14. Rudy Gobert
The most decorated defender of this era, Rudy Gobert has won Defensive Player of the Year honors three times. The blocks leader in 2017, Gobert is a six-time NBA All-Defensive First Team recipient. “The Stifle Tower” remains an absolute force in the paint on defense.

13. Scottie Pippen
Forming one of the greatest defensive trios ever with Michael Jordan and Dennis Rodman, Scottie Pippen oftentimes took on the toughest matchup on that end of the floor. This was illustrated by when he neutralized Magic Johnson in the 1991 NBA Finals. Pippen was voted to 10 total All-Defensive teams and was the 1995 steals leader. Pippen is a six-time NBA champion.

12. Dwight Howard
A former number one overall draft pick, Dwight Howard had one of the most dominant defensive peaks ever. He won three straight Defensive Player of the Year Awards, two block titles, and five rebounding titles from 2008-2013. Howard was the premier shot blocker of his era, and even though his prime was shorter than ideal, he still put together a nice 18-year career.

11. Gary Payton
Gary Payton was nicknamed “The Glove” because he defended his opponents very tight. Payton is one of two point guards to be named the Defensive Player of the Year, and he led the league in steals in 1996 (his DPOY year). Payton was named to the NBA All-Defensive First Team nine times.

10. Kevin Garnett
Kevin Garnett played with a ferocity and intensity greater than that of his peers. “The Big Ticket” was the 2008 Defensive Player of the Year and a 12-time All-Defensive selection.

9. Bill Russell
Bill Russell’s statistics won’t pop off the page because a statistic like blocks wasn’t invented until after his retirement. Still, Russell’s efforts on the defensive end of the floor were way ahead of their time and directly contributed to his championship-filled career winning. He won 11 titles and was a five-time MVP, despite only averaging 15.1 points per game for his career, largely in part to his team-first style of play and defensive presence. Russell ranks first all-time in defensive win shares at 133.6, which is 27.3 points higher than the next player on that list.

8. Sidney Moncrief
Sidney Moncrief is the only guard to win the Defensive Player of the Year award more than once (1983, 1984). Moncrief was the inaugural winner of that award, and he played an aggressive, in-your-face style of defense that was exhausting to go up against. He also earned All-Defensive honors throughout his career five times.

7. Kawhi Leonard
“The Claw” is one of the premier defensive stoppers of all time. While he has struggled with injuries as of late, when healthy, Kawhi Leonard can shut down any superstar in the league. Leonard won back-to-back Defensive Player of the Year awards in 2015 and 2016, and is a seven time All-Defensive team member. Leonard has ideal size for a wing defender and is also one of the most instinctive defenders of all-time.

6. Ben Wallace
Ben Wallace was only 6-foot 9-inches, undersized for a center, but his off-the-charts motor made him one of the most intimidating defenders in the NBA. Wallace won four Defensive Player of the Year awards, which is tied for the most all-time. He was the blocks leader in 2002 and was an All-Defense First Teamer five times.

[RogueBorg]

5. Dennis Rodman
Dennis Rodman was more than willing to put his body on the line in order to make a play for his teammates. He constantly was diving for loose balls and was irritating to play against. “The Worm” was a seven-time All-Defense First Team selection and two-time Defensive Player of the Year winner. Rodman is arguably the greatest rebounder of all time as well. Rodman was the ultimate role player who didn’t need touches on the offensive end, and it led him to five NBA Finals victories.

4. Dikembe Mutombo
Tied with Ben Wallace, Dikembe Mutombo also has four Defensive Player of the Year awards. Mutombo would wag his fingers at opponents after blocking their shots, and he did that a lot, as he is second all-time in blocked shots with 3,289 rejections.

3. Tim Duncan
Tim Duncan is the greatest defender to never win a Defensive Player of the Year award, and quite frankly, it is a travesty that “The Big Fundamental” never won the highest honor on the defensive side of the ball. Still, he is second all-time in defensive win shares and was an eight-time All-Defensive First Teamer. He added another seven All-Defense Second Teams to his resume as well. His 15 total All-Defense selections are the most of all-time, and he only didn’t make an All-Defensive team only four times in his career.

2. Hakeem Olajuwon
Hakeem Olajuwon is the all-time leader in blocked shots (3,830). “The Dream” won two Defensive Player of the Year awards and had three seasons leading the league in blocks. Olajuwon made an All-Defensive team nine times, and averaged 3.1 blocks per game for his entire career.

1. Michael Jordan
The man most consider the greatest player of all time is also the greatest defender of all time. While this ranking is sure to irritate some fans, Michael Jordan has a great case for being the best defender in NBA history. Jordan was known for coming up clutch in the biggest moments, and that includes on the defensive side of the ball. “Air Jordan” won Defensive Player of the Year honors in 1988, and is also tied for the record for All-Defensive First-Team selections with nine. With three seasons leading the league in steals and 2,514 total steals, Jordan always got the ball into transition by stripping his opponent or jumping passing lanes.

The post 25 greatest defenders in NBA history, ranked appeared first on ClutchPoints.

[Manny98]

What an awful list :oldlol:

[ArbitraryWater]

ok thats the funniest shit ive ever seen :lol

[ShawkFactory]

What is this lol. Jordan ahead of Hakeem kind of tells you what you need to know.

Kobe over Tony Allen? Nah.

[RRR3]

Kobe over Wilt :roll: :roll: :roll:

[Axe]

Lol how tf did the french baguette got on the list. :oldlol:

[sdot_thadon]

It is indeed terrible, but swapping Mj and Bill russell, 1-9 :facepalm, would go a long way to making it more respectable.

[jlip]

This is possibly the worst list of anything I have ever seen in my life. I would have been embarrassed to even post this. Evidently, the originator of this is a casual whose understanding of the game is limited to hype and narrative as opposed to truly understanding defensive impact.

[Xiao Yao You]

What an awful list :oldlol:

really where's Whiteside!

[Xiao Yao You]

Lol how tf did the french baguette got on the list. :oldlol:

the dominant defender of a generation. I wonder? :facepalm

[L.Kizzle]

Who made this list? It's pretty bad.

[Axe]

the dominant defender of a generation. I wonder? :facepalm
Amongst the first twenty guys on the list, he's also the only one who's never been to the conference finals yet. :kobe:

[rmt]

Gobert? Really, what a joke!

[Akeem34TheDream]

Some people make terrible lists just to attract more attention i feel like

[LLL3]

GOAT player AND GOAT defender? :roll:

Let the meltdowns begin. How's LBJ supposed to top that? C'mon guys, it's just not fair!

https://media.tenor.com/WCkS2mTyCNQAAAAM/gif.gif

[SouBeachTalents]

I knew Jordan was gonna be #1, otherwise OP would have never this thread in the first place :lol Kobe being top 20 is also a joke.

[RogueBorg]

I knew Jordan was gonna be #1, otherwise OP would have never this thread in the first place :lol Kobe being top 20 is also a joke.

I didn't write the article, nor did I give my opinion. Just reporting the facts.

[Axe]

I didn't write the article, nor did I give my opinion. Just reporting the facts.
If you believe at least half of the players on that list to be accurate, then it just shows how truly dumb you are.

[theman93]

If you believe at least half of the players on that list to be accurate, then it just shows how truly dumb you are.

Oh the irony. Isn't your nickname around here dingus?

[Axe]

Shut the hell up, coach. That lousy ass insult was never even clever at all if anything. :whatever:

[SATAN]

Let's continually obsess over ****ing lists and do as the sleazy sports media gods comand!!!

[theman93]

Shut the hell up, coach. That lousy ass insult was never even clever at all if anything. :whatever:

Woah triggered

[1987_Lakers]

Yea, that was pretty bad. Spots that caught my eye.

Kobe at 19 - Shouldn't be on the list
David Robinson at 15 - Should be in the convo for top 5
Russell at 9 - LOL, should be #1
MJ at 1 - :oldlol:

Wilt also should have been on this list, along with Jason Kidd, Thurmond & Walt Frazier

[Carbine]

I think Kobe deserves to be on the list. He had a great run of 4-5 years or so where his defense was top notch. After that his effort dropped off but he still showcased his defensive ability when he felt like it.

[1987_Lakers]

I think Kobe deserves to be on the list. He had a great run of 4-5 years or so where his defense was top notch. After that his effort dropped off but he still showcased his defensive ability when he felt like it.

That's basically like LeBron, except LeBron peaked higher defensively. A player who only had 4 great years on defense shouldn't be on this list, especially if they are a guard. You have a bunch of guys who played defense at a higher level for longer than Kobe, it's not even a question.

[Jasper]

jrue holiday not on the list lmfao

[1987_Lakers]

And GP continues to be one of the most overrated defenders in history, #11 is too high for him.

[Jasper]

how old is that article ???

[Jasper]

I think Kobe deserves to be on the list. He had a great run of 4-5 years or so where his defense was top notch. After that his effort dropped off but he still showcased his defensive ability when he felt like it.

lmfao when felt like it:kobe:

[SouBeachTalents]

I think Kobe deserves to be on the list. He had a great run of 4-5 years or so where his defense was top notch. After that his effort dropped off but he still showcased his defensive ability when he felt like it.
Absolutely awful take

[Carbine]

That's basically like LeBron, except LeBron peaked higher defensively. A player who only had 4 great years on defense shouldn't be on this list, especially if they are a guard. You have a bunch of guys who played defense at a higher level for longer than Kobe, it's not even a question.

Lebron should be on a top 25 list too. His defensive peak was amazing. I don't think either was as good as Kawhi at his peak though.

Kawhi only really played that kind of defense from 2013-2019 though.

[1987_Lakers]

Not a perfect list, but this top 25 is much better.

https://theathletic.com/3093939/2022/01/27/nba-75-a-history-lesson-on-defense-and-ranking-the-25-best-defenders-of-all-time/

1.Bill Russell
2.Hakeem Olajuwon
3.Tim Duncan
4.Kevin Garnett
5.Rudy Gobert
6.Scottie Pippen
7.Draymond Green
8.David Robinson
9.Ben Wallace
10.Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
11.Dennis Rodman
12.Bobby Jones
13.Jason Kidd
14.Wilt Chamberlain
15.Kawhi Leonard
16.Giannis Antetokounmpo
17.Michael Jordan
18.LeBron James
19.Dikembe Mutombo
20.Sidney Moncrief
21.Dennis Johnson
22.Dwight Howard
23.Gary Payton
24.Bruce Bowen
25.(tie) Marc Gasol and Tony Allen

[SouBeachTalents]

Not a perfect list, but this top 25 is much better.

https://theathletic.com/3093939/2022/01/27/nba-75-a-history-lesson-on-defense-and-ranking-the-25-best-defenders-of-all-time/

1.Bill Russell
2.Hakeem Olajuwon
3.Tim Duncan
4.Kevin Garnett
5.Rudy Gobert
6.Scottie Pippen
7.Draymond Green
8.David Robinson
9.Ben Wallace
10.Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
11.Dennis Rodman
12.Bobby Jones
13.Jason Kidd
14.Wilt Chamberlain
15.Kawhi Leonard
16.Giannis Antetokounmpo
17.Michael Jordan
18.LeBron James
19.Dikembe Mutombo
20.Sidney Moncrief
21.Dennis Johnson
22.Dwight Howard
23.Gary Payton
24.Bruce Bowen
25.(tie) Marc Gasol and Tony Allen
Thurmond getting snubbed on this list too

[RRR3]

If we're going by impact, everyone on the list would be big men. Let's be honest here.

[Reggie43]

Ron Artest nowhere to be found

[Carbine]

Arrest definitely belongs on a list.

[Full Court]

Michael Jordan, former DPOY, is on the list. I didn't see LeStatue on there though. Strange.....


:roll:

[SouBeachTalents]

Michael Jordan, former DPOY, is on the list. I didn't see LeStatue on there though. Strange.....


:roll:
I didn’t see Wilt on it either.

[1987_Lakers]

Can we all agree the top 25 should look something like...

1. Russell
2. Hakeem
3. Robinson
4. Duncan
5. KG
6. Mutombo
7. Wilt
8. B. Wallace
9. Pippen
10. Rodman
11. Thurmond
12. Dwight
13. Bobby Jones
14. Moncrief
15. Green
16. Kidd
17. Tony Allen
18. Ron Artest
19. Kareem
20. Gobert
21. Mourning
22. MJ
23. Ewing
24. Kawhi
25. LeBron

Something like that. Basically 13 centers on there, Ewing at his peak was a more impactful defender than GP, leading his team to all-time great defensive seasons.

I left off Bill Walton despite having ATG defensive peak because it was only for a season and a half.

[RRR3]

I didn’t see Wilt on it either.
Incoming
https://i.ibb.co/Smbs5vQ/IMG-1954.jpg

[iamgine]

I think Mchale, Kirilenko, Rollins and Bam Adebayo are also more impactful than them guards.

[SATAN]

And GP continues to be one of the most overrated defenders in history

How so? He was a great defender.

[SATAN]

Incoming
https://i.ibb.co/Smbs5vQ/IMG-1954.jpg

:roll::roll::roll:

[theman93]

Can we all agree the top 25 should look something like...

1. Russell
2. Hakeem
3. Robinson
4. Duncan
5. KG
6. Mutombo
7. Wilt
8. B. Wallace
9. Pippen
10. Rodman
11. Thurmond
12. Dwight
13. Bobby Jones
14. Moncrief
15. Green
16. Kidd
17. Tony Allen
18. Ron Artest
19. Kareem
20. Gobert
21. Mourning
22. MJ
23. Ewing
24. LeBron
25. Frazier

Something like that. Basically 13 centers on there, Ewing at his peak was a more impactful defender than GP, leading his team to all-time great defensive seasons.

I left off Bill Walton despite having ATG defensive peak because it was only for a season and a half.

MJ too low. Should be above Kidd, Allen, and Artest. Also missing Kawhi and GP who should easily be there over Lebron.

[1987_Lakers]

MJ too low. Should be above Kidd, Allen, and Artest. Also missing Kawhi and GP who should easily be there over Lebron.

Yea, I'll probably switch Frazier with Kawhi.

If anything I put MJ too high, I'm pretty positive he didn't have the defensive impact of peak Kawhi.

[Carbine]

Gobert deserves to be on the list based off accolades but he has been exposed so many times in the playoffs to the point he is viciously hunted by opposing offenses that he doesn't make the cut for me. Not even close.

[1987_Lakers]

And people are sleeping on Jason Kidd's defense. Dude had size to guard multiple positions, was an excellent help/team defender. His Nets teams were #1 on defense both years they made the Finals.

Nets defense went from #23 in 2001 to #1 in 2002 when they added him.

[1987_Lakers]

Gobert deserves to be on the list based off accolades but he has been exposed so many times in the playoffs to the point he is viciously hunted by opposing defenses that he doesn't make the cut for me. Not even close.

He played in the wrong era. Would love to see guys like Wilt & Kareem be switched out to guard the perimeter like Gobert did in those playoffs, something tells me they wouldn't fare well at all. Maybe young Wilt wouldn't be so bad? But Wilt peaked as an overall defender once he hit his 30's.

[Bawkish]

Can we all agree the top 25 should look something like...

1. Russell
2. Hakeem
3. Robinson
4. Duncan
5. KG
6. Mutombo
7. Wilt
8. B. Wallace
9. Pippen
10. Rodman
11. Thurmond
12. Dwight
13. Bobby Jones
14. Moncrief
15. Green
16. Kidd
17. Tony Allen
18. Ron Artest
19. Kareem
20. Gobert
21. Mourning
22. MJ
23. Ewing
24. Kawhi
25. LeBron

Something like that. Basically 13 centers on there, Ewing at his peak was a more impactful defender than GP, leading his team to all-time great defensive seasons.

I left off Bill Walton despite having ATG defensive peak because it was only for a season and a half.

This right here

[Full Court]

I didn’t see Wilt on it either.

Wilt set lots of rebounding records, and would have set all kinds of block records if they kept that stat early in his career. Easily a top 5 defensive player.

LeStatue on the other hand...

https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fmedia.giphy.com%2Fmedia%2F1BGPLg0 KIG7zpIwLQc%2Fgiphy.gif&f=1&nofb=1

[1987_Lakers]

Wilt is the GOAT defender if we are playing NBA Street Vol 2.

If you had him on your team, you could block every shot since there was no goaltending in that game.

[Full Court]

Incoming
https://i.ibb.co/Smbs5vQ/IMG-1954.jpg

I occupy at least two of this guy's three brain cells.

:roll:

[1987_Lakers]

Wilt set lots of rebounding records, and would have set all kinds of block records if they kept that stat early in his career. Easily a top 5 defensive player.

LeStatue on the other hand...

https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fmedia.giphy.com%2Fmedia%2F1BGPLg0 KIG7zpIwLQc%2Fgiphy.gif&f=1&nofb=1

That wasn't his point at all. You laughed at LeBron not making the list while Wilt completely missed the list as well. :oldlol:

[theman93]

Lebron does not belong on a top 25 list over Gary Payton lol

[1987_Lakers]

This right here

:cheers:

[1987_Lakers]

Lebron does not belong on a top 25 list over Gary Payton lol

Being a guard who was mostly known for his man defense, GP's impact was limited, with LeBron's size alone, at his defensive peak he was greater. Could guard and switch onto more positions, GOAT transition defender with his chasedown blocks and even added some rim protection in the half court. Teams could easily scheme against GP on the defense end by not giving his man the ball and his defensive impact wasn't felt as much, where as players like LeBron and Kidd's impact on defense were still felt in other ways.

[L.Kizzle]

Not a perfect list, but this top 25 is much better.

https://theathletic.com/3093939/2022/01/27/nba-75-a-history-lesson-on-defense-and-ranking-the-25-best-defenders-of-all-time/

1.Bill Russell
2.Hakeem Olajuwon
3.Tim Duncan
4.Kevin Garnett
5.Rudy Gobert
6.Scottie Pippen
7.Draymond Green
8.David Robinson
9.Ben Wallace
10.Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
11.Dennis Rodman
12.Bobby Jones
13.Jason Kidd
14.Wilt Chamberlain
15.Kawhi Leonard
16.Giannis Antetokounmpo
17.Michael Jordan
18.LeBron James
19.Dikembe Mutombo
20.Sidney Moncrief
21.Dennis Johnson
22.Dwight Howard
23.Gary Payton
24.Bruce Bowen
25.(tie) Marc Gasol and Tony Allen
This list is probably worse.

[theman93]

Being a guard who was mostly known for his man defense, GP's impact was limited, with LeBron's size alone, at his defensive peak he was greater. Could guard and switch onto more positions, GOAT transition defender with his chasedown blocks and even added some rim protection in the half court. Teams could easily scheme against GP on the defense end by not giving his man the ball and his defensive impact wasn't felt as much, where as players like LeBron and Kidd's impact on defense were still felt in other ways.

I disagree Lebron peaked higher. He didn’t even win DPOY over Marc Gasol (or even Chandler or Noah the years prior and before — who weren’t exactly stalwarts in the history of bigs). Meanwhile, GP won DPOY over the likes of Mutombo, Hakeem, Robinson, Mourning, and Ewing. GP also extended his defensive excellence far longer than Lebron. If you want to say teams could scheme against GP by not giving his man the ball, then that also means if your best player plays on the perimeter GP has already eliminated him. That’s a double edged sword. Lebron also could guard and switch on to more players than guys like Kareem and Howard (who could only guard bigs), but that doesn’t make him better.

[1987_Lakers]

I disagree Lebron peaked higher. He didn’t even win DPOY over Marc Gasol (or even Chandler or Noah the years prior and before — who weren’t exactly stalwarts in the history of bigs). Meanwhile, GP won DPOY over the likes of Mutombo, Hakeem, Robinson, Mourning, and Ewing.

This isn't saying much. Camby won DPOY over Duncan. Smart won DPOY when he wasn't even the best defender on his team. Most people see Payton winning that DPOY award as a joke.

[1987_Lakers]

Lebron also could guard and switch on to more players than guys like Kareem and Howard (who could only guard bigs), but that doesn’t make him better.

Those are big men who were elite rim protectors in their prime, GP was a 6 foot 4 guard. :oldlol:

NOBODY has the defensive impact of those type of big men

[theman93]

This isn't saying much. Camby won DPOY over Duncan. Smart won DPOY when he wasn't even the best defender on his team. Most people see Payton winning that DPOY award as a joke.

So how are you judging peak? Everything you said about Lebron I can counter with something GP was great at in his own right. Lebron was great on transition defense, GP was great at jumping the lane to get a steal or force a bad pass. Lebron was more versatile, GP could lock up his man all game. Lebron could provide better rim protection, GP could harass the ball handler 94 ft.

Btw, Camby absolutely deserves DPOY over Duncan. Better defensive rebounder, shot blocker, and averaged more steals.

[1987_Lakers]

Btw, Camby absolutely deserves DPOY over Duncan. Better defensive rebounder, shot blocker, and averaged more steals.

:roll:

Camby was the defenition of an undisciplined player. He was a known bad post defender who would often gamble on everything.

My God, just stop talking out of your ass for once.

[theman93]

Those are big men who were elite rim protectors in their prime, GP was a 6 foot 4 guard. :oldlol:

NOBODY has the defensive impact of those type of big men

We’re talking about versatility though and the ability to switch to which they couldn’t. Same idea with GP. That doesn’t make a more versatile defender better.

[theman93]

:roll:

Camby was the defenition of an undisciplined player. He was a known bad post defender who would often gamble on everything.

My God, just stop talking out of your ass for once.

Ahh yes a bad post defender who mindlessly gambled on everything won DPOY. Sounds about right. The same bad post defender who made Timmy go from a 54.6% shooter to 47.6% when they matched up in 07. Dude sucked.

[1987_Lakers]

We’re talking about versatility though and the ability to switch to which they couldn’t. Same idea with GP. That doesn’t make a more versatile defender better.

Big men like that don't have to be versatile. They completely shut down the paint, they are the last line of defense. Pretty weird for you to use big men as an example when GP was a point guard.

[1987_Lakers]

Ahh yes a bad post defender who mindlessly gambled on everything won DPOY. Sounds about right. The same bad post defender who made Timmy go from a 54.6% shooter to 47.6% when they matched up in 07. Dude sucked.

Don't take my word for it.

https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/8c7fuf/is_there_an_argument_for_marcus_camby_being_a_top/

I actually watched those Nuggets teams, and no Iverson and Melo were not the problem, Camby was more worried about getting stats than about being an effective defender. Kmart and Nene was easily better defenders and most Nuggets fans who were old enough to remember those teams know it

Not true at all, he is the worst defender to win DPOY in the last 20years. He is the classic rebounds/block defender who wasn't really that good on defense. Marc Gasol was a much much better defender and Ibaka despite not being an elite rebounder was also a better defender. Hell Kmart his teammate was as good as him on defense.

[1987_Lakers]

From another site.

https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?t=823051

is marcus camby's defense the most overrated among all big men? he's a former defensive player of the year, perennial all-defense team member but when i see him play i see someone who gambles for blocks all game long. he'll routinely leave his man wide open and get his much heralded 3 blocks a game. he's also not a very good post defender, probably due to his lack of size. in the playoffs mehmet okur did a much better job of defending a post scorer like pau gasol than marcus camby.

He also camps under the rim, rips rebounds away from his own players, tries to block everything, and tries to take the ball up the floor after every board instead of getting it to a guard.

He puts up nice stats, but he really isn't a good player to have

[1987_Lakers]

he's the most overrated defender OF ALL-TIME..

I can speak for Spurs fans when I say how annoyed and disgusted we are that Duncan doesn't have a DPOY, and Marcus **** Camby does..

thankfully KG went to Boston, because Camby would have another DPOY if KG was still in Minny..

it's the media..I have nothing against Camby, but the media makes him so overrated..

:oldlol:

Again, stop talking out of your ass.

[Axe]

Coach getting bodied a lot itt. :yaohappy:

[Bawkish]

GP was also known for among the best in double teams. Him, Pip and Doug Christie were among the best in that category. But in terms of impact i believe that bigs were definitely have the better position to do so. Give me KG or Hakeem or Ben Wallace anytime over the likes of GP, Tony Allen or Smart

[theman93]

Big men like that don't have to be versatile. They completely shut down the paint, they are the last line of defense. Pretty weird for you to use big men as an example when GP was a point guard.

And likewise, GP clamps the perimeter. He doesn’t have to be versatile. He is the front line of defense that makes it hell for the offense to get in to it’s sets. All your doing is describing a role and not showing how Lebron’s peak is better. If you argue Lebron’s versatility I will just as equally argue GP’s specialty. Being a jack of all and master of none doesn’t make you better.

[1987_Lakers]

And likewise, GP clamps the perimeter. He doesn’t have to be versatile. He is the front line of defense that makes it hell for the offense to get in to it’s sets.

Marcus Smart clamped the perimeter as well. But if you actually watched those Celtics play, you would see his impact wasn't anywhere near Robert Williams who was altering every shot the Warriors took in the paint during the Finals. This is what you fail to understand, guards simply don't have the defensive impact of bigger guys.

[theman93]

Marcus Smart clamped the perimeter as well. But if you actually watched those Celtics play, you would see his impact wasn't anywhere near Robert Williams who was altering every shot the Warriors took in the paint during the Finals. This is what you fail to understand, guards simply don't have the defensive impact of bigger guys.

Then you’ve completely contradicted yourself and your list makes absolutely no sense. Ewing, Mourning, Kareem and Gobert are bigger than Kidd, Artest, and Allen yet you have them behind those guys.

The fact is that you know bigger doesn’t necessarily mean better. Same idea that just because your more versatile because your bigger, it doesn’t make you better than someone who’s smaller but more specialized.

[theman93]

he's the most overrated defender OF ALL-TIME..

I can speak for Spurs fans when I say how annoyed and disgusted we are that Duncan doesn't have a DPOY, and Marcus **** Camby does..

thankfully KG went to Boston, because Camby would have another DPOY if KG was still in Minny..

it's the media..I have nothing against Camby, but the media makes him so overrated..

:oldlol:

Again, stop talking out of your ass.

Like I give a flying rats anus what some random Reddit fans say LOL. I love how you think that’s some kind of trump card lmao. I recall watching him and he was great, and the statistics and awards back it up.

[Xiao Yao You]

Gobert deserves to be on the list based off accolades but he has been exposed so many times in the playoffs to the point he is viciously hunted by opposing offenses that he doesn't make the cut for me. Not even close.

no one on the list could guard 5 guys by himself :facepalm

[Johnny32]

Lil mikey's defense is laughably overrated in general but this puts that at another level. He wasn't even the best perimeter defender of the 80s. And not even a top 2 defender on his own team in the mid 90s.

[Phoenix]

A list with Hakeem or Bill Russell being called the GOAT defender wouldn't garner nearly as much attention as this one, so mission accomplished. Kinda like a list naming MJ as the GOAT collegiate player, instead of Alcindor, Maravich, Walton or whomever. Reasonable doesn't generate clicks.

[1987_Lakers]

Like I give a flying rats anus what some random Reddit fans say LOL. I love how you think that’s some kind of trump card lmao. I recall watching him and he was great, and the statistics and awards back it up.

:roll:

[1987_Lakers]

Here is another thread from ISH

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?484549-Marcus-Camby-was-the-real-problem


There was a pretty big disagreement here at the time on if Camby was a great defender or just a guy who blocked everything because his lack of preventing drives to begin with. The comparison was made between he and Duncan who blocks less shots....because his positioning was superior and didn’t allow penetration to begin with.

[1987_Lakers]

Then you’ve completely contradicted yourself and your list makes absolutely no sense. Ewing, Mourning, Kareem and Gobert are bigger than Kidd, Artest, and Allen yet you have them behind those guys.

I made the list off the top of my head, which is why I immediately said "something like that" after I completed it. Despite that, it's a far more credible list than the list in the OP.

[theman93]

Imagine talking about 07 Camby, and then linking an old thread about 08 Camby. :roll:

Zero statistic or analytic proves Camby was a bad defender. Get some help nerd.

[1987_Lakers]

Imagine talking about 07 Camby, and then linking an old thread about 08 Camby. :roll:

Zero statistic or analytic proves Camby was a bad defender. Get some help nerd.

Calling me a nerd when you are the one using stats to say Camby was a better defender than Duncan. What's next? Iverson was a better defender than Michael Cooper because he had more SPG? :oldlol:

[theman93]

I made the list off the top of my head, which is why I immediately said "something like that" after I completed it. Despite that, it's a far more credible list than the list in the OP.

Nah you’re just arguing in bad faith. Wings and guards should never be ahead of centers and power forwards because they’re smaller according to you. Which is stupid. May as well just base your list off of height.

[theman93]

Calling me a nerd when you are the one using stats to say Camby was a better defender than Duncan. What's next? Iverson was a better defender than Michael Cooper because he had more SPG? :oldlol:

I’m not the one scouring the internet for old takes from random Reddit fans. So yes, nerd.

[Jasper]

Thurmond getting snubbed on this list too

mo cheeks

jrue holiday


Alvin robertson

as well

[1987_Lakers]

I’m not the one scouring the internet for old takes from random Reddit fans. So yes, nerd.

Sourcing facts of what people thought of Camby at the time. Gave you different quotes from 3 sites including a mod from this very same site saying people felt Camby's defense wasn't all that great. You seem triggered.

[theman93]

Sourcing facts of what people thought of Camby at the time. Gave you different quotes from 3 sites including a mod from this very same site saying people felt Camby's defense wasn't all that great. You seem triggered.

And your trying to twist those opinions as though they are factual when everything points to those opinions being wrong. The statistics don't back up their claims. The advanced stats don't back up their claims. And the way the voters voted don't back up their claims. I'll go with that along with my own eye test over suPERnUggetsFAN69 on Reddit.

[rmt]

Camby loved to swat the ball into the stands. Duncan played smart positional defense and stopped penetration to the rim - maybe not resulting in blocks stats - but TD never played for stats - just winning.

It's disgusting to me that Gobert was awarded 3 DPOYs, and Duncan never got one.

[Full Court]

That wasn't his point at all. You laughed at LeBron not making the list while Wilt completely missed the list as well. :oldlol:

You missed my point, which is that Wilt belongs on the list and LeStatue does not.

[ShawkFactory]

And your trying to twist those opinions as though they are factual when everything points to those opinions being wrong. The statistics don't back up their claims. The advanced stats don't back up their claims. And the way the voters voted don't back up their claims. I'll go with that along with my own eye test over suPERnUggetsFAN69 on Reddit.

There is no point where Camby was a better overall defender than Duncan.

[theman93]

There is no point where Camby was a better overall defender than Duncan.

I'm fine to have this debate. However, the argument has shifted from if Camby was the better defender than Duncan in 07, to Camby being a bad defender that year. Which is totally asinine.

[1987_Lakers]

I'm fine to have this debate. However, the argument has shifted from if Camby was the better defender than Duncan in 07, to Camby being a bad defender that year. Which is totally asinine.

Nobody agrees with you.

[theman93]

Nobody agrees with you.

Besides the actual voters.

[rmt]

I'm fine to have this debate. However, the argument has shifted from if Camby was the better defender than Duncan in 07, to Camby being a bad defender that year. Which is totally asinine.

Nobody said that Camby was a bad defender that year. My point was that more blocks (stats) don't necessarily mean better defender.

[theman93]

Nobody said that Camby was a bad defender that year. My point was that more blocks (stats) don't necessarily mean better defender.

1987_Dudley did.

Anyways, I never argued that was the be all end all. Though it is an ingredient.

[1987_Lakers]

1987_Dudley did.

Anyways, I never argued that was the be all end all. Though it is an ingredient.

I never called him a negative impact defender, just called out some of his flaws which every fan saw at the time. You simply looked at his stats and called him a better defender than Duncan in '07 which is flat out a dumb statement.

[theman93]

I never called him a negative impact defender, just called out some of his flaws which every fan saw at the time. You simply looked at his stats and called him a better defender than Duncan in '07 which is flat out a dumb statement.

An undisciplined defender who gambles on everything and is a bad post defender isn't exactly the description of a positive impact defender.

[1987_Lakers]

An undisciplined defender who gambles on everything and is a bad post defender isn't exactly the description of a positive impact defender.

Sure it is. I remember the same criticism being used on Serge Ibaka while he was in OKC, but nobody called him a negative impact defender.

[theman93]

Sure it is. I remember the same criticism being used on Serge Ibaka while he was in OKC, but nobody called him a negative impact defender.

No, that describes a negative impact defender who can't even perform one of his main defensive functions and is bad fundamentally.

[1987_Lakers]

No, that describes a negative impact defender who can't even perform one of his main defensive functions and is bad fundamentally.

It describes a defender who was never in the league of Duncan, that's for sure. But anyways, keep talking out of your ass when nobody here agrees with what you said.

[theman93]

Camby>Duncan in 07 is a much more reasonable take than claiming being bigger equates to being a better defender while at the same time having guards ahead of centers in a top 25 defensive list. :lol

[1987_Lakers]

Camby>Duncan in 07 is a much more reasonable take than claiming being bigger equates to being a better defender while at the same time having guards ahead of centers in a top 25 defensive list. :lol

Let's see your list.

Can't wait to see Camby on there ahead of guys like Duncan & Mutombo

:lol

[Carbine]

I thought Camby was a tough defensive player. He did give Duncan some issues for sure.

Top 25? No but he would be top 50 I think. He has the hardware, advanced stats love him and my eyes test thought he was a tough guy to play against.

[theman93]

Let's see your list.

Can't wait to see Camby on there ahead of guys like Duncan & Mutombo

:lol

That would be a strawman. And your bigger=better argument is a bad faith argument. Both logical fallacies. Once you admit to committing those I will consider giving you my list.

[JBSptfn]

Not a perfect list, but this top 25 is much better.

https://theathletic.com/3093939/2022/01/27/nba-75-a-history-lesson-on-defense-and-ranking-the-25-best-defenders-of-all-time/

1.Bill Russell
2.Hakeem Olajuwon
3.Tim Duncan
4.Kevin Garnett
5.Rudy Gobert
6.Scottie Pippen
7.Draymond Green
8.David Robinson
9.Ben Wallace
10.Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
11.Dennis Rodman
12.Bobby Jones
13.Jason Kidd
14.Wilt Chamberlain
15.Kawhi Leonard
16.Giannis Antetokounmpo
17.Michael Jordan
18.LeBron James
19.Dikembe Mutombo
20.Sidney Moncrief
21.Dennis Johnson
22.Dwight Howard
23.Gary Payton
24.Bruce Bowen
25.(tie) Marc Gasol and Tony Allen

Russell #1? Jordan 17? I like this list (Jordan wasn't a great defender after his baseball sabbatical, anyway).

[Phoenix]

Not a perfect list, but this top 25 is much better.

https://theathletic.com/3093939/2022/01/27/nba-75-a-history-lesson-on-defense-and-ranking-the-25-best-defenders-of-all-time/

1.Bill Russell
2.Hakeem Olajuwon
3.Tim Duncan
4.Kevin Garnett
5.Rudy Gobert
6.Scottie Pippen
7.Draymond Green
8.David Robinson
9.Ben Wallace
10.Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
11.Dennis Rodman
12.Bobby Jones
13.Jason Kidd
14.Wilt Chamberlain
15.Kawhi Leonard
16.Giannis Antetokounmpo
17.Michael Jordan
18.LeBron James
19.Dikembe Mutombo
20.Sidney Moncrief
21.Dennis Johnson
22.Dwight Howard
23.Gary Payton
24.Bruce Bowen
25.(tie) Marc Gasol and Tony Allen

Rodman not being in the top 10 gave me an instant brain cramp.

[ArbitraryWater]

Rodman not being in the top 10 gave me an instant brain cramp.

i mean, hes 11, and can you really say he is cleary better than any of the ones infront of him? (ok Gobert, yes)

[Phoenix]

i mean, hes 11, and can you really say he is cleary better than any of the ones infront of him? (ok Gobert, yes)

Can you really say they're all clearly better than him?

[rmt]

Gobert at #5 - you've got to be kidding me - LOL.

[ArbitraryWater]

Can you really say they're all clearly better than him?

I cant but I dont need to.

You dont need to be cleary better to be ranked ahead of someone.

[Phoenix]

I cant but I dont need to.

You dont need to be cleary better to be ranked ahead of someone.

Neither one of us need to, in that case, especially since you seem to fall on my line of thinking despite the question you posed.

[Xiao Yao You]

Gobert at #5 - you've got to be kidding me - LOL.

Only two guys have more DPOTY. A generational defender. Where's he supposed be? :confusedshrug:

[Axe]

Gobert at #5 - you've got to be kidding me - LOL.
Damn, would have been so accurate if this was the g-league we're talking about. :ohwell:

[Xiao Yao You]

Damn, would have been so accurate if this was the g-league we're talking about. :ohwell:

he wasn't that great in the Gleague. Being a troll you wouldn't know that though :facepalm

[Axe]

Oh he actually has dpoy awards? Wew i almost forgot. :eek:

[WhiteKyrie]

Where’s LeBron? Thought he was a “complete” player

[Xiao Yao You]

Oh he actually has dpoy awards? Wew i almost forgot. :eek:

I would imagine since scoring isn't involved

[hold this L]

Kawhi at 7 is a reach at best. No way in hell is he significantly better than Draymond. :facepalm Didn't play basketball all that much and after his injuries started, his defense is based on reputation than anything else. Prime Klaw is another story but that lasted for 3-4 years.

[ArbitraryWater]

Neither one of us need to, in that case, especially since you seem to fall on my line of thinking despite the question you posed.

What?

You said Rodman not being in the top 10 gave you a brain cramp, how could that be the case when he isnt cleary better than anyone in the top 10?


This is basic level logic lol

[1987_Lakers]

Kawhi at 7 is a reach at best. No way in hell is he significantly better than Draymond. :facepalm Didn't play basketball all that much and after his injuries started, his defense is based on reputation than anything else. Prime Klaw is another story but that lasted for 3-4 years.

I agree with this, it's amazing how many players were still considered elite defenders even after their play faltered on that end, Kobe, Kawhi, & GP come to mind. The similarities between those players is that they had more offensive responsibility as their careers went on. Extremely hard for a perimeter player to play elite on both ends year in and year out.

[tpols]

Gobert at #5 - you've got to be kidding me - LOL.

Not only that...

...but dray above David Robinson, Ben Wallace, Dennis Rodman, and Wilt Chamberlain?

Lebron over Mutumbo and Dwight?

Where's Pat Ewing and Alonzo Mourning?

Joke list.

[Carbine]

Draymond is a prototype defensive player in this era.

In his prime, he was the best switching big and the best help rotating big. He just wasn't a great shot blocker in the sense of block numbers but he deterred a lot of easy baskets with his contests and rotations.

I think he's the best defender of his era. He deserves his place alongside the Wallace's and Rodman's whether that's below them a spot or two or above them a spot or two.

[tpols]

Draymond is a prototype defensive player in this era.

In his prime, he was the best switching big and the best help rotating big. He just wasn't a great shot blocker in the sense of block numbers but he deterred a lot of easy baskets with his contests and rotations.

I think he's the best defender of his era. He deserves his place alongside the Wallace's and Rodman's whether that's below them a spot or two or above them a spot or two.

He's nowhere close to the prime defensive capabilities of true Center defenders like Ewing, Robinson, Dwight, or Wilt. At best dray is a poor mans Dennis Rodman defensively. A tweener and system player.

[1987_Lakers]

He's nowhere close to the prime defensive capabilities of true Center defenders like Ewing, Robinson, Dwight, or Wilt. At best dray is a poor mans Dennis Rodman defensively. A tweener and system player.

It's already been discussed, you can't replicate the defensive impact of those type of centers. Ewing, like Thurmond gets forgotten because they both played against other all-time great centers, it's a shame we rarely hear those two when a discussion of greatest defenders pop up. I listed them both in my top 25.

But if we are strictly talking about non centers, I would say Draymond at least has a convo to be #1, his intelligence, his ability to defend multiple positions with his quickness and strength has not been duplicated by many players.

[Phoenix]

What?

You said Rodman not being in the top 10 gave you a brain cramp, how could that be the case when he isnt cleary better than anyone in the top 10?


This is basic level logic lol

I don't understand why you singled out my comment to begin with. The idea that Rodman is a top ten defender is a pretty widely held opinion ( I mean, it's all opinion....right?). I've seen more lists with him being top 5, than lists with him being out of the top ten so yes, the notion of him not being a top ten defender did give me a 'brain cramp'. It was slightly hyperbolic but like... it's ok for me to disagree with the list, right? The 'brain cramp' comment was just how I choose to express myself, not for someone to take it and run with either the expression or then fail to articulate counter-points beyond some reductive 'well you can't make the case for', when by your own admittance you can't make the case against, but then say you don't need to.......whatever that means. If neither one of us can or is willing to justify our positions one way or another then the conversation reached a fairly abrupt end.

[Phoenix]

For all the 'guard 1-5' we hear, Rodman literally guarded everyone from Magic, to Jordan, to Malone and Barkley, to Shaq and Mourning. All different positions, roles, styles, sizes, and skillsets. And not just for certain plays, but huge minutes over a game. On top of being the best pound for pound rebounder ever. But apparently I'm off my head because I find the idea of ranking him outside the top 10 incredulous.