How good were the late 1980s Pistons?

[iamgine]

Seems to me they were about on par with 1980s Lakers & Celtics.

1987: Took Celtics to 7 games
1988: Beat Celtics 4-2, took Lakers to 7 games in the finals
1989: Championship, swept both Lakers & Celtics.
1990: Championship, beating 55 wins Bulls and 59 wins Blazers.

[Im Still Ballin]

1980s

Tier 1: Celtics and Lakers
Tier 2: Sixers and Pistons
Tier 3: Milwaukee?

[eliteballer]

They only swept the Lakers in 89 because we didn't have a backcourt.

[Phoenix]

They won when the Celtics and Lakers got old. I mean, people use that rationale for the Bulls beating them in 91 so , what's good for the goose?

But seriously, underrated historically and probably because they were foils for more marketable teams/players as well as their style of play.

[JBSptfn]

They won when the Celtics and Lakers got old. I mean, people use that rationale for the Bulls beating them in 91 so , what's good for the goose?

But seriously, underrated historically and probably because they were foils for more marketable teams/players as well as their style of play.

The 91 Bulls played the Lakers with Magic being sick (from the HIV), Worthy and Scott being banged up, and without Kareem, Rambis, Coop, and M. Thompson.

The Pistons beat the C's with Bird, Parish, and McHale. They also played a better version of the Lakers, and they also beat a better Blazers team in 90 (I believe that the 90 Blazers were better than the 92 Blazers).

[Phoenix]

The 91 Bulls played the Lakers with Magic being sick (from the HIV), Worthy and Scott being banged up, and without Kareem, Rambis, Coop, and M. Thompson.

The Pistons beat the C's with Bird, Parish, and McHale. They also played a better version of the Lakers, and they also beat a better Blazers team in 90 (I believe that the 90 Blazers were better than the 92 Blazers).

The Pistons didn't beat the peak Celtics squad , unless you're equating the 88 Celtics with the 86 team. The whole 'Magic had HIV' thing is overblown anyway. He was the 91 runner-up in MVP voting, first team all-NBA, 19/13/7 in the regular season, 22/13/8 in the playoffs and 19/12/8 in the finals( while being guarded by the best perimeter defenders in the league between MJ and Pippen). Magic played to par in the 91 finals, compared to being injured in the 89 finals dropping 12/8/4, and the Lakers without Byron Scott. The Pistons still likely win in 89 regardless but it's not a sweep if Magic and Scott are healthy. And while Kareem wasn't on the 91 team, he was a 42 year old 10ppg player in 89, basically a bigger name than game at that point, and retired after the finals. Odd that you didn't point any of that out. You also say that the Blazers were better in 90 than 92, but 'HIV Magic' beat them in 91 before losing to the Bulls.

I was being slightly tongue in check earlier, but the overall point is that Detroit didn't beat the best version of the Celtics and Lakers. The Bulls didn't beat the best version of the Pistons and Lakers, but they're the only ones who get shit for it. It's a bad argument to use to denigrate any champion though, because you can only beat who is in front of you. So I wasn't actually shitting on the Pistons, but it is true that both the Lakers and Celtics were past their peak when Detroit beat them. The Pistons between 90 and 91 shows just how much difference a year can make, and then 92 they were pretty much no longer a threat. I just find it interesting how people like to shit on the 91 Lakers and Pistons, when Chicago was literally the only team preventing 'HIV Magic' or 'old and injured Pistons' from winning the title that year.

[Kblaze8855]

Seems to me they were about on par with 1980s Lakers & Celtics.

1987: Took Celtics to 7 games
1988: Beat Celtics 4-2, took Lakers to 7 games in the finals
1989: Championship, swept both Lakers & Celtics.
1990: Championship, beating 55 wins Bulls and 59 wins Blazers.


Bird didn’t play at all in 89 and Magic played a game and a half. I’ve never heard anyone bring it up who didn’t watch it live though and it’s one reason I laugh when people talk about injury asterisks. You can win a title in the Bird/Magic era having played both the Celtics and lakers without Bird and Magic and nobody even cares it happened. There’s 45 minutes of salt then history just counts it as a win.

[SouBeachTalents]

They were a play away from a 3peat, they were pretty good I guess

[RogueBorg]

1980s

Tier 1: Celtics and Lakers
Tier 2: Sixers and Pistons
Tier 3: Milwaukee?

Houston

[RogueBorg]

They were right in the middle of the Lakers and Celtics beginning their descent and the Bulls beginning their rise. They were really good in that era but they didn't play any of the three at their peak just like the others didn't catch the Pistons at theirs.

[Phoenix]

That's actually what makes the Lakers and Celtics stand out because two dynasties clashing at their peak over the course of a decade is pretty rare. Both the Pistons and Bulls came of age when those aforementioned teams had already been through the grind. And part of the Bulls mystique is they were ultimately upended by the politics of their own organization and not being dethroned 91 Pistons/Lakers style. The Magic 'should' have been the Bulls successors if Shaq stayed and Penny's knee didn't betray him.

[RogueBorg]

That's actually what makes the Lakers and Celtics stand out because two dynasties clashing at their peak over the course of a decade is pretty rare. Both the Pistons and Bulls came of age when those aforementioned teams had already been through the grind. And part of the Bulls mystique is they were ultimately upended by the politics of their own organization and not being dethroned 91 Pistons/Lakers style. The Magic 'should' have been the Bulls successors if Shaq stayed and Penny's knee didn't betray him.

Great points.

[iamgine]

Other than championship, taking a team to a pretty close 7 games usually means they were pretty equal.

[Johnny32]

good enough to shit down lil mikey's throat until the league changed the rules to help him.

[97 bulls]

I've always maintained that no team has beaten the best version of any other team. The Lakers beat the Celtics in 85 when Bird hurt his hand in a bar fight. The Celtics beat a young Lakers team with an extremely young James Worthy. The Pistons were young when the Celtics beat them. The Bulls were young when the Pistons beat them. Pippen and Grant weren't on the Bulls when Jordan's Bulls played the Celtics in 86. And both players were rookies when they did play the Celtics. The Celtics weren't even good enough to be competitive (due to age and injury) by the early 90s.

[97 bulls]

good enough to shit down lil mikey's throat until the league changed the rules to help him.

That's not a fair assessment. The Pistons were a dirty team. They couldn't beat the Bulls without including violence.

[jayfan]

Other than championship, taking a team to a pretty close 7 games usually means they were pretty equal.


Yep, and that '87 Boston series was one of the closest ever. Pistons would likely have won but for Isiah's pass to Bird and Vinnie & Dantley colliding heads.

Then in '88, we all know about the Lakers receiving a gift in 7.


.

[Phoenix]

I've always maintained that no team has beaten the best version of any other team. The Lakers beat the Celtics in 85 when Bird hurt his hand in a bar fight. The Celtics beat a young Lakers team with an extremely young James Worthy. The Pistons were young when the Celtics beat them. The Bulls were young when the Pistons beat them. Pippen and Grant weren't on the Bulls when Jordan's Bulls played the Celtics in 86. And both players were rookies when they did play the Celtics. The Celtics weren't even good enough to be competitive (due to age and injury) by the early 90s.

This. 87 Lakers and Celtics may be the closest out of the teams being mentioned in this thread.

[RogueBorg]

This. 87 Lakers and Celtics may be the closest out of the teams being mentioned in this thread.

It's close but what might have been for Boston had Bias not died and Walton getting injured again :confusedshrug:

[Axe]

They were a very good defensive team but by the start of another decade, they were hounded by the implementation of the flagrant foul and were never the same anymore.

[Phoenix]

It's close but what might have been for Boston had Bias not died and Walton getting injured again :confusedshrug:

Indeed....

[JBSptfn]

The Pistons didn't beat the peak Celtics squad , unless you're equating the 88 Celtics with the 86 team. The whole 'Magic had HIV' thing is overblown anyway. He was the 91 runner-up in MVP voting, first team all-NBA, 19/13/7 in the regular season, 22/13/8 in the playoffs and 19/12/8 in the finals( while being guarded by the best perimeter defenders in the league between MJ and Pippen). Magic played to par in the 91 finals, compared to being injured in the 89 finals dropping 12/8/4, and the Lakers without Byron Scott. The Pistons still likely win in 89 regardless but it's not a sweep if Magic and Scott are healthy. And while Kareem wasn't on the 91 team, he was a 42 year old 10ppg player in 89, basically a bigger name than game at that point, and retired after the finals. Odd that you didn't point any of that out. You also say that the Blazers were better in 90 than 92, but 'HIV Magic' beat them in 91 before losing to the Bulls.

I was being slightly tongue in check earlier, but the overall point is that Detroit didn't beat the best version of the Celtics and Lakers. The Bulls didn't beat the best version of the Pistons and Lakers, but they're the only ones who get shit for it. It's a bad argument to use to denigrate any champion though, because you can only beat who is in front of you. So I wasn't actually shitting on the Pistons, but it is true that both the Lakers and Celtics were past their peak when Detroit beat them. The Pistons between 90 and 91 shows just how much difference a year can make, and then 92 they were pretty much no longer a threat. I just find it interesting how people like to shit on the 91 Lakers and Pistons, when Chicago was literally the only team preventing 'HIV Magic' or 'old and injured Pistons' from winning the title that year.

OK, fair enough.

[JBSptfn]

That's not a fair assessment. The Pistons were a dirty team. They couldn't beat the Bulls without including violence.

The 80's Celtics were not above using thug tactics to win (look at Game 4 of the 84 Finals), but nobody vilifies them for it. But the Pistons stopped everyone's hero (from 88-90), so they are evil.

[Xiao Yao You]

Yep, and that '87 Boston series was one of the closest ever. Pistons would likely have won but for Isiah's pass to Bird and Vinnie & Dantley colliding heads.

Then in '88, we all know about the Lakers receiving a gift in 7.


.

Layden and Ivaroni gifted them the 2nd round

[97 bulls]

The 80's Celtics were not above using thug tactics to win (look at Game 4 of the 84 Finals), but nobody vilifies them for it. But the Pistons stopped everyone's hero (from 88-90), so they are evil.
The Celtics and Lakers were never considered dirty teams. Consider this in an era where basketball was more physical, the Pistons were nicknamed the Bad Boys. Lol.

[97 bulls]

This. 87 Lakers and Celtics may be the closest out of the teams being mentioned in this thread.

Not according to the fans of the Celtics. Mchale played with a fractured foot, Walton was down, and so was Scott Wedman.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/sports/1989/11/08/from-rebounds-to-rehab-mchale-learns-to-cope/d145eed1-2cac-418d-8e2f-88ad9e20576a/

https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/sports/1987/06/15/though-outmanned-celtics-are-disappointed-by-result/b9ecd182-f78f-42eb-9946-1d0250d10ad3/

[Xiao Yao You]

The Celtics and Lakers were never considered dirty teams. Consider this in an era where basketball was more physical, the Pistons were nicknamed the Bad Boys. Lol.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X7r6vXeOfyQ&t=23s

:facepalm

[Phoenix]

Not according to the fans of the Celtics. Mchale played with a fractured foot, Walton was down, and so was Scott Wedman.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/sports/1989/11/08/from-rebounds-to-rehab-mchale-learns-to-cope/d145eed1-2cac-418d-8e2f-88ad9e20576a/

https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/sports/1987/06/15/though-outmanned-celtics-are-disappointed-by-result/b9ecd182-f78f-42eb-9946-1d0250d10ad3/

True, so its as we both said before. None of these teams really played each other at full strength. There was always some notable injury or absence for a key player(s). Some people just act like only the Bulls benefitted from age or injury. I'm of the opinion that none of the Pistons teams beat any of the Bull title squads.

[97 bulls]

True, so its as we both said before. None of these teams really played each other at full strength. There was always some notable injury or absence for a key player(s). Some people just act like only the Bulls benefitted from age or injury. I'm of the opinion that none of the Pistons teams beat any of the Bull title squads.
Yep

[sdot_thadon]

They accomplished what they accomplished so of course they were a great team. The thing that always bothered me was what level do you qualify a team when their calling card was basically knocking the shit out of the other team whenever possible? Does that make them crude and unskilled? Not exactly but does that make them an all time elite team? Can't say so. Could they be that great a team in this era where things are called much tighter? Do all great defenders in the hand check era get downgraded as defenders because they were were allowed extra tools to defend great players?

[r0drig0lac]

They were a play away from a 3peat, they were pretty good I guess

this

[JBSptfn]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X7r6vXeOfyQ&t=23s

:facepalm

Exactly.

[jayfan]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X7r6vXeOfyQ&t=23s

:facepalm


And that was '84, mind you. The Bad Boys didn't even exist yet.


.

[dankok8]

On the short list of greatest teams ever...