Shaq is the most overrated player in history, and his fans the dumbest

[DaRkJaWs]

Let me be clear before I begin: I still think Shaq is close to being in the top 10 all time. You can definitely debate it. But anyone who puts him over people who were clearly better than him is just ****ing ridiculous. The main thing they like to say is "oh he was so dominant". But let's be ****ing real, that dominance really exhibited itself through an entire season ONLY ONCE. And that infamous year, 2000, should have a HUGE ASTERISK THAT NOBODY TALKS ABOUT!! I will get to this later.

Let's first talk about Shaq and the many times he was swept out of the playoffs, unprecedented and unmatched by any other superstar in NBA HISTORY. 1995 vs the rockets. 1996 vs the bulls. He SHOULD have gotten swept by the jazz in 1997 but they got lucky one game. Swept badly by the jazz in 1998. Swept by the spurs in 1999. And in 2007 swept for the last time by a lowly bulls team.

Now let's go to the year that defined how everyone thinks of Shaq, the year is 2000. He should have been the first unanimous mvp and he plays out of his mind. But have we forgotten what almost happened to his lakers in the western conference finals? The Blazers won back to back games to match the series at 3 wins a piece, and they're up by 20 in the 4th quarter of game 7. By SHAQS OWN ADMISSION, the only reason the lakers caught up and the blazers lost is that the blazers CHOKED IT AWAY. It wasn't because of anything shaq did. Imagine instead if the blazers didn't completely choke and won game 7. What would have happened to Shaqs legacy had they lost like they were supposed to have lost. A great season down the drain, and Shaq is still a loser.

In 2001 the lakers, once they got into the playoffs, were one of the best teams I ever saw play. Shaq was just one piece of the puzzle, and his entire team being dangerous helped him immensely.

In 2002 Shaq was nowhere near as dominant as before and the lakers honestly stole the series from the kings.

Now you ask, how about those huge numbers Shaq put up in the finals? Yeah, I don't think much about those either and I'll tell you why. In all 3 of those years, the eastern conference was weak AF and everyone knew it. The real finals in all 3 seasons was the conference finals. And you know who shined the most in those conference finals? It wasn't just Shaq. It was ****ing kobe. Kobe single handedly destroyed the spurs in 2001, in what was likely his best series ever. Shaq was just a good role player in that conference finals. And in 2000 and 2002 it was both of them and the lakers team that got them over the hump.

So about those huge numbers in the finals. By the time they got to the finals they knew those east teams had nothing for Shaq. So kobe let Shaq do whatever he wanted in those finals and let Shaq have those finals mvps. By that point the hard part in the conference finals were already done, and kobe and Shaq both knew it. Kobe let Shaq have all the glory vs non-competition.

Shaq is ****ing overrated and his fans like Skip Bayless who say he was one of the best ever are some of the dumbest people on the ****ing planet.

[3ba11]

Let me be clear before I begin: I still think Shaq is close to being in the top 10 all time.





^^^ okay see right there you contradicted yourself - if Shaq is still borderline top 10, then he can't be overrated by more spots than someone like Pippen, who played at a Larry Nance or Iggy-caliber (top 100) but was inflated to all-time status (top 30) by the winning spotlight - this equals the most overrated player ever - no one benefitted from the winning spotlight more than Pippen and no one was carried more from a statistical standpoint.

Sure Pippen won 55 games this was a one-off from inherited a 3-peat dynasty - they weren't a true contender that could win 55 every year and were borderline .500 in 95' before MJ returned - this confirmed the obvious that any team with Pippen as the best scorer will fall out of contention QUICKLY due to lack of talent, even a 3-peat dynasty like we saw in 95'.. Pippen could never build a 55-win team from scratch and wasn't drafted to be a franchise player like say, Kyrie, AD or Wade.

[DaRkJaWs]

Bro, some people put Shaq in their top 5 all time. Those are the idiots I'm talking about.

[Spurs m8]

No one is dumber and more delusional than a bronie.

Imagine Shaq fans saying he's the actual GOAT.

THAT is how stupid bronies sound

[warriorfan]

oh shit, dark jaws the legend

we used to clown on nerds on realgm back in the day before we got banned

make some threads on wilt i got your back

[DaRkJaWs]

^^^ okay see right there you contradicted yourself - if Shaq is still borderline top 10, then he can't be overrated by more spots than someone like Pippen, who played at a Larry Nance or Iggy-caliber (top 100) but was inflated to all-time status (top 30) by the winning spotlight - this equals the most overrated player ever - no one benefitted from the winning spotlight more than Pippen and no one was carried more from a statistical standpoint.

Sure Pippen won 55 games this was a one-off from inherited a 3-peat dynasty - they weren't a true contender that could win 55 every year and were borderline .500 in 95' before MJ returned - this confirmed the obvious that any team with Pippen as the best scorer will fall out of contention QUICKLY due to lack of talent, even a 3-peat dynasty like we saw in 95'.. Pippen could never build a 55-win team from scratch and wasn't drafted to be a franchise player like say, Kyrie, AD or Wade.

Kyrie AD and Wade are all overrated too, out of the 3 AD was the best but AD fell off.

BTW people ranking pippen let's say 50th instead of say 70th or 80th is not as bad as someone ranking Shaq 2nd or 3rd instead of 10th 11th or etc.

[Kblaze8855]

Kobe single handedly destroyed the spurs in 2001, in what was likely his best series ever. Shaq was just a good role player in that conference finals.





https://youtu.be/mLlQmrGYHLE?si=T85_nbPJyulHf6GO

[3ba11]

Kyrie AD and Wade are all overrated too





Sure but they could produce at elite levels and Lebron is the only guy with sidekicks that outplayed league MVP's like Kyre destroying Curry, or AD destroying Joker, or Wade outplaying Dirk - show me where Pippen went to the 93' Finals and outplayed Barkley or Malone - that would be absurd - Pippen wasn't viewed as competing on that top level






Kyrie AD and Wade are all overrated too






FINALS CAREER

Lebron........ 28 on 49%
Kyrie'.......... 28 on 48%
AD'............. 25 on 57%

MJ.............. 34 on 48%
Pippen........ 19 on 42%


Only one of the sidekicks shown above forced their #1 option to defeat max defensive attention (carry scoring load on championship level)

MJ had to defeat max defensive attention (carry scoring load on championship level)






BTW people ranking pippen let's say 50th instead of say 70th or 80th is not as bad as someone ranking Shaq 2nd or 3rd instead of 10th 11th or etc.





Okay but not a lot of people say shaq is 2nd or 3rd - most people have him below MJ, Lebron and probably Kareem and Russell

[SouBeachTalents]

https://youtu.be/mLlQmrGYHLE?si=T85_nbPJyulHf6GO
Yeah, 27/13 against a frontcourt of Duncan/Robinson is just your standard role player series :lol OP loses quite a bit of credibility saying some stupid shit like that.

[3ba11]

Yeah, 27/13 against a frontcourt of Duncan/Robinson is just your standard role player series :lol OP loses quite a bit of credibility saying some stupid shit like that.


Who was 1st option for the Lakers when they faced their toughest competition (Spurs) in 2001, 2003, and 2004?

or the 4th quarter and clutch-time

[SouBeachTalents]

Who was 1st option for the Lakers when they faced their toughest competition (Spurs) in 2001, 2003, and 2004?

or the 4th quarter and clutch-time
Shaq was 1st option during the 3peat, Kobe was 1st option when they were losing in the 2nd round and getting curb stomped as massive favorites in the Finals.

[DaRkJaWs]

Shaq was 1st option during the 3peat, Kobe was 1st option when they were losing in the 2nd round and getting curb stomped as massive favorites in the Finals.

Silly revisionist history. Shaq was 1st option until they ran into real competition. Then Kobe took over.

[DaRkJaWs]

No one is dumber and more delusional than a bronie.

Imagine Shaq fans saying he's the actual GOAT.

THAT is how stupid bronies sound

Bron is definitely top 5. I put him 4th after MJ, Wilt, and Kareem. Russell is 5th.

[DaRkJaWs]

Yeah, 27/13 against a frontcourt of Duncan/Robinson is just your standard role player series :lol OP loses quite a bit of credibility saying some stupid shit like that.

The quietest 27/13 you've ever seen. Go watch that series if you haven't, you'll see what I'm talking about. Kobe was absolutely dominant and Shaq got his numbers thanks to Kobe being such a threat.

[JohnMax]

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/centers-most-nba-mvps
https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/centers-most-finals-mvps

[RRR3]

Kyrie AD and Wade are all overrated too, out of the 3 AD was the best but AD fell off.

BTW people ranking pippen let's say 50th instead of say 70th or 80th is not as bad as someone ranking Shaq 2nd or 3rd instead of 10th 11th or etc.
AD was absolutely not better than Dwyane Wade :roll:

[Full Court]

3 FMVP in a row. How many other players have ever been able to do that?

[DaRkJaWs]

3 FMVP in a row. How many other players have ever been able to do that?

You must have missed out on the part where I talked about the finals vs bad competition/BBQ chicken. It's still a credit to Shaq but the lakers LET Shaq have his way in the finals and win those mvps, including kobe who took a step back.

[WhiteKyrie]

For me

1) MJ
2) LBJ
3) Kobe
4) Hakeem
5) Bird
6) Duncan
7) Shaq
8) Magic

Argue the rest

[Wally450]

OP, who's in your Top 10, just out of curiosity.

[DaRkJaWs]

OP, who's in your Top 10, just out of curiosity.

1. MJ
2. Wilt
3. LeBron
4. Kareem
5. Russell
6. Magic
7. Bird
8. Kobe
9. Olajuwon
10. Shaq
11. Duncan
12. Karl Malone
13. Moses Malone
14. Steph Curry
15. Dr. J
16. Jerry West
17. Durant
18. Oscar
19. Baylor
20. Pettit


I've left out some other recent players that definitely supplant a few people listed here.

[Baller234]

1. MJ
2. Wilt
3. LeBron
4. Kareem
5. Russell
6. Magic
7. Bird
8. Kobe
9. Olajuwon
10. Shaq
11. Duncan
12. Karl Malone
13. Moses Malone
14. Steph Curry
15. Dr. J
16. Jerry West
17. Durant
18. Oscar
19. Baylor
20. Pettit


I've left out some other recent players that definitely supplant a few people listed here.

Wilt wasn't even the best player of his era, let alone #2 all time. He was known as a prima donna who didn't totally buy into the team concept. Red Auerbach talks it about all the time and insists that if you ask any player from that generation who they would rather play with, they would all say Russell. I know he's biased but I believe him.

Karl Malone is not top 20. He was one of the best players of his day sure, but he doesn't have the accomplishments to measure up to that kind of ranking. In real time nobody thought he was a cut above guys like Barkley, Ewing or Robinson. Those guys were all pretty much on the same tier. He had some stacked teams in his day and couldn't get to the promised land.

[Axe]

Kobe wouldn't have five rings if not for this guy.

[tontoz]

Shaq was All NBA 14 times, 8 of those first team. OP must be sniffing glue or something.

Who has been overrating Shaq? I sure haven't seen it.

[DaRkJaWs]

Wilt wasn't even the best player of his era, let alone #2 all time. He was known as a prima donna who didn't totally buy into the team concept. Red Auerbach talks it about all the time and insists that if you ask any player from that generation who they would rather play with, they would all say Russell. I know he's biased but I believe him.

Karl Malone is not top 20. He was one of the best players of his day sure, but he doesn't have the accomplishments to measure up to that kind of ranking. In real time nobody thought he was a cut above guys like Barkley, Ewing or Robinson. Those guys were all pretty much on the same tier. He had some stacked teams in his day and couldn't get to the promised land.

I don't give a f what red auerbach used to say. Yes, the other superstars in the league like West, Baylor, and Pettit all said they'd rather play with Russell when wilt was in his younger years. But both Russell and wilt knew wilt was the better player, and russell had the better team and thus the better situation. Wilt definitely was a primadonna, but he still accomplished a lot more than you think. This isn't the thread for me to lay it out for you. Do the homework yourself. He also has the highest peak in NBA history and it's not even close.

Karl Malones peak in the NBA came after his 30s. Barkley was better than Malone for a long time, but Malone from 1996-1998 with his level of play, which was very dominant, exceeded barkley for their respective careers. I'd even argue Malones peak exceeded barkleys.

Ewing was nowhere on their level. And Robinsons prime actually exceeded both Malone and barkley, but it was for such a short period of time. Robinson came into the league late, had a few short great years, then got injured and was no longer a superstar.

[DaRkJaWs]

Shaq was All NBA 14 times, 8 of those first team. OP must be sniffing glue or something.

Who has been overrating Shaq? I sure haven't seen it.

U must have missed the part where I said Shaq is an all time top 10 player and I actually list him 10th in the all time rankings.
My point is anyone putting him in the top 6 all time is committing an atrocious blasphemy.

[SouBeachTalents]

My point is anyone putting him in the top 6 all time is committing an atrocious blasphemy.
It's just.....not. Shaq absolutely has valid arguments over Duncan, Magic, Bird, Hakeem, Kobe etc. And if you think those guys should be ranked higher, claiming it would be an "atrocious blasphemy" for Shaq to be higher is so over the top and hyperbolic, it's the kind of shit you'd hear on First Take or Undisputed.

[Baller234]

I don't give a f what red auerbach used to say. Yes, the other superstars in the league like West, Baylor, and Pettit all said they'd rather play with Russell when wilt was in his younger years. But both Russell and wilt knew wilt was the better player, and russell had the better team and thus the better situation. Wilt definitely was a primadonna, but he still accomplished a lot more than you think. This isn't the thread for me to lay it out for you. Do the homework yourself. He also has the highest peak in NBA history and it's not even close.

Wilt was the most dominant scorer in the league by far. He scored double what the next best scorer in the league was putting up. That gives his team a huge advantage, even against another great team like the Celtics. I'm sorry but they were in the league together for 10 years and during that period Russell has him beat 9-1 in terms of championships. Either the coaching was superior, Russell was superior, or both.

And yes in terms of greatness and all time influence, Wilt is close to the top and definitely above most centers, but highest peak? Hard to give that label to a guy who played so early in the league's history. Wilt was obviously skilled and ahead of his time, but his dominance was also partially due to him being so physically imposing compared to the rest of the league. We've seen 7 footers emerge since then who took Wilt's game and expanded on it even further. If prime Hakeem takes a time machine back to the 60's, he also dominates. Not saying that's fair, but it's the truth. Hakeem is way more talented than Wilt was, if only by virtue of him coming along 20 years later.


Karl Malones peak in the NBA came after his 30s. Barkley was better than Malone for a long time, but Malone from 1996-1998 with his level of play, which was very dominant, exceeded barkley for their respective careers. I'd even argue Malones peak exceeded barkleys.

Ewing was nowhere on their level. And Robinsons prime actually exceeded both Malone and barkley, but it was for such a short period of time. Robinson came into the league late, had a few short great years, then got injured and was no longer a superstar.

Sounds like you're going strictly off MVP awards, which means nothing. In terms of talent and what they brought to the table, these guys were mostly all on the same tier and could be ranked in any order.

Barkley-Malone-Robinson-Ewing were all franchise players with overlapping skills and different strengths. To say that Malone was undoubtedly the best in that group is a bit of a reach to me. Malone was a beast sure but Barkley was a more reliable scorer, D-Rob was taller and more athletic, and Ewing was more technically sound. The Jazz were always in the playoffs but for every time they made the conference finals they also got bumped in the first round. These were during Malone's prime years, and he played on some really good teams.

And yes Ewing was absolutely on that same level.

[ShawkFactory]

Wilt was the most dominant scorer in the league by far. He scored double what the next best scorer in the league was putting up. That gives his team a huge advantage, even against another great team like the Celtics. I'm sorry but they were in the league together for 10 years and during that period Russell has him beat 9-1 in terms of championships. Either the coaching was superior, Russell was superior, or both.

And yes in terms of greatness and all time influence, Wilt is close to the top and definitely above most centers, but highest peak? Hard to give that label to a guy who played so early in the league's history. Wilt was obviously skilled and ahead of his time, but his dominance was also partially due to him being so physically imposing compared to the rest of the league. We've seen 7 footers emerge since then who took Wilt's game and expanded on it even further. If prime Hakeem takes a time machine back to the 60's, he also dominates. Not saying that's fair, but it's the truth. Hakeem is way more talented than Wilt was, if only by virtue of him coming along 20 years later.



Sounds like you're going strictly off MVP awards, which means nothing. In terms of talent and what they brought to the table, these guys were mostly all on the same tier and could be ranked in any order.

Barkley-Malone-Robinson-Ewing were all franchise players with overlapping skills and different strengths. To say that Malone was undoubtedly the best in that group is a bit of a reach to me. Malone was a beast sure but Barkley was a more reliable scorer, D-Rob was taller and more athletic, and Ewing was more technically sound. The Jazz were always in the playoffs but for every time they made the conference finals they also got bumped in the first round. These were during Malone's prime years, and he played on some really good teams.

And yes Ewing was absolutely on that same level.

Let's not get crazy here. Yes, of course you could argue that they are in the same tier. And I'm fully of the opinion that history writes itself incorrectly with basketball and guys are actually closer than it seems (i.e Jimmy Butler outplaying Giannis multiple times, but no one who didn't watch right now will remember that).

BUT..you'd have more explaining to do if you put Ewing first in a group with him and Barkley/Malone/Robinson than if you chose any of the others. I think the tape bares that out honestly.

[Baller234]

Let's not get crazy here. Yes, of course you could argue that they are in the same tier. And I'm fully of the opinion that history writes itself incorrectly with basketball and guys are actually closer than it seems (i.e Jimmy Butler outplaying Giannis multiple times, but no one who didn't watch right now will remember that).

BUT..you'd have more explaining to do if you put Ewing first in a group with him and Barkley/Malone/Robinson than if you chose any of the others. I think the tape bares that out honestly.

The fu*k? Patrick Ewing? What is wrong with you guys? Is it the knee pads?

How can you say he wasn't in their league? Barkley didn't even play defense. Ewing was tough, he was skilled, he was technically sound, could beat you down low, could beat you from mid-range... like what are we even talking about here. The Knicks gave the Bulls their toughest challenges by far and he was far and away their best player.

[ShawkFactory]

The fu*k? Patrick Ewing? What is wrong with you guys? Is it the knee pads?

How can you say he wasn't in their league? Barkley didn't even play defense. Ewing was tough, he was skilled, he was technically sound, could beat you down low, could beat you from mid-range... like what are we even talking about here. The Knicks gave the Bulls their toughest challenges by far and he was far and away their best player.

Reread what I said.

The Knicks were a tough team in general. It wasn't just him.

[Im Still Ballin]

A player doesn't have to be the "closer" on his team to be its best, most impactful player. Bill Russell wasn't; hell, he was never the team's standout offensive player ever.

[Baller234]

Reread what I said.

The Knicks were a tough team in general. It wasn't just him.

I don't think you should really rank any of those guys ahead of one another. That is why I put them all on the same tier. You can't say any of those guys did anything definitively to separate themselves from the pack like Hakeem did.

The Knicks were a tough team because they were historic defensively and because they also had a dominant scorer in Ewing. He led the floor on both ends. I'm not saying he was the best player in that group, like I said it's pick and choose if you ask me, but there is definitely a case somewhere to be made.

[JohnMax]

My top 6

1 Wembenyama
2 Lebron
3 Jordan
4 Kareem
5 Duncan
6 Curry

I believe in the Wembenyama hype just like I believe in the Lebron hype. In fact I have Lebron tying Jordan in Rings and MVPS before he retires.

[Overdrive]

Let me be clear before I begin: I still think Shaq is close to being in the top 10 all time. You can definitely debate it. But anyone who puts him over people who were clearly better than him is just ****ing ridiculous. The main thing they like to say is "oh he was so dominant". But let's be ****ing real, that dominance really exhibited itself through an entire season ONLY ONCE. And that infamous year, 2000, should have a HUGE ASTERISK THAT NOBODY TALKS ABOUT!! I will get to this later.

Let's first talk about Shaq and the many times he was swept out of the playoffs, unprecedented and unmatched by any other superstar in NBA HISTORY. 1995 vs the rockets. 1996 vs the bulls. He SHOULD have gotten swept by the jazz in 1997 but they got lucky one game. Swept badly by the jazz in 1998. Swept by the spurs in 1999. And in 2007 swept for the last time by a lowly bulls team.

Now let's go to the year that defined how everyone thinks of Shaq, the year is 2000. He should have been the first unanimous mvp and he plays out of his mind. But have we forgotten what almost happened to his lakers in the western conference finals? The Blazers won back to back games to match the series at 3 wins a piece, and they're up by 20 in the 4th quarter of game 7. By SHAQS OWN ADMISSION, the only reason the lakers caught up and the blazers lost is that the blazers CHOKED IT AWAY. It wasn't because of anything shaq did. Imagine instead if the blazers didn't completely choke and won game 7. What would have happened to Shaqs legacy had they lost like they were supposed to have lost. A great season down the drain, and Shaq is still a loser.

In 2001 the lakers, once they got into the playoffs, were one of the best teams I ever saw play. Shaq was just one piece of the puzzle, and his entire team being dangerous helped him immensely.

In 2002 Shaq was nowhere near as dominant as before and the lakers honestly stole the series from the kings.

Now you ask, how about those huge numbers Shaq put up in the finals? Yeah, I don't think much about those either and I'll tell you why. In all 3 of those years, the eastern conference was weak AF and everyone knew it. The real finals in all 3 seasons was the conference finals. And you know who shined the most in those conference finals? It wasn't just Shaq. It was ****ing kobe. Kobe single handedly destroyed the spurs in 2001, in what was likely his best series ever. Shaq was just a good role player in that conference finals. And in 2000 and 2002 it was both of them and the lakers team that got them over the hump.

So about those huge numbers in the finals. By the time they got to the finals they knew those east teams had nothing for Shaq. So kobe let Shaq do whatever he wanted in those finals and let Shaq have those finals mvps. By that point the hard part in the conference finals were already done, and kobe and Shaq both knew it. Kobe let Shaq have all the glory vs non-competition.

Shaq is ****ing overrated and his fans like Skip Bayless who say he was one of the best ever are some of the dumbest people on the ****ing planet.

The most ironic aspect of that debate is people saying Shaq could post huge numbers, because his defenders were weak in the finals, while they praise Kobe for scoring against Antonio Daniels while Shaq was doubled by Robinson and Duncan.

[Jasper]

. But have we forgotten what almost happened to his lakers in the western conference finals? The Blazers won back to back games to match the series at 3 wins a piece, and they're up by 20 in the 4th quarter of game 7. By SHAQS OWN ADMISSION, the only reason the lakers caught up and the blazers lost is that the blazers CHOKED IT AWAY. It wasn't because of anything shaq did. Imagine instead if the blazers didn't completely choke and won game 7. What would have happened to Shaqs legacy had they lost like they were supposed to have lost. A great season down the drain, and Shaq is still a loser.

.

Portland got cold , but how many fouls were called against the Lakers ???

There were numerous fouls by the Lakers that were never called , because the NBA needed the Lakers to win ,
to carry the league financially.
/

[John8204]

#1 - His rebounding numbers. Shaq is 15th in rebounds, he's allegedly the greatest most dominant big of all-time yet he's behind low tier guys like Dwight Howard, Walt Bellamy, Kevin Garnett, and Wes Unseld. 4 Centers that I have in the top 5 are also top 5 in this stat (Wilt, Moses, Bill, and Kareem) the other center I rank in the top five George Mikan average 13.4 RPG, Shaq only averaged 10.

#2 - His competition, Shaq's greatest accomplishment is his rings as he has four of them. He beat The Indiana Pacers, Philadelphia 76ers, New Jersey Nets, and Dallas Mavericks. Only Dallas with Dirk ever won a ring (thanks to a 37 year old Jason Kidd joining the team). His teams that won featured Kobe and Dwayne Wade along with a who's who list of supporting elite role players. Head to Head he lost to Hakeem Olajuwon's Rockets and Ben Wallaces Pistons.

#3 - He never averaged 30PPG in a season, once again the argument for Shaq is that he was the most dominant player in NBA history. Yet dozens of players have managed to hit the 30PPG threshold and Shaq never did...this was a driving force in his failure to win multiple MVP's.

#4 - He only has a single MVP, while Kobe was likely held back from winning the award because of his rape charge what's Shaq's excuse? He wasn't really competing for the MVP in an era when they piled on guys like Lebron, Jordan, Bird, Magic, or Wilt. The race was open every year and yet for some reason he was never respected enough by the media to get the award more than once.

#5 - The Sacramento Kings Series - 4 rings, 3 Finals MVP's you can remove two of those points after what was the worst called series in NBA history...also

#6 - The Portland Trailblazers Series - Another fixed series...one player benefited from two of the shadiest series in NBA history. The NBA also sabotaged the FBI investigation over game fixing we don't know how many refs would have gone down in Tim was able to wear a wire.

#7 - His weight, the NBA is filled with many great's none of them weighed 400lbs. The man had little self control and discipline plenty of players have weaknesses but how many of them had to do with food.

#8 - His ego, the Magic were a great team and a nice destination for players. Had he stayed on the team that drafted him he would have had great players come over the years to play with the big man. Well he left the Magic and followed Jerry West to Los Angeles who put together a championship level squad for Shaq...he could have stayed in Los Angeles and won 4-5-6 but he couldn't get along with Kobe. So he bounces over to Pat Riley and the team he built up in Miami wins a single title and I guess not believing he could beat the Celtics and Lebron he runs to the Phoenix Suns to play under D'antoni and try and beat Kobe...flops horribly. Then he ring chases with the teams that were better than him...Cleveland and Boston fails to win as a bench player. Shaq's a front runner who when his feelings got hurt he left a dynasty. I don't respect players that leave rings on the table.

#9 - His contemporaries....was Shaq better than KG? Nowitzki? Duncan? or Kobe? Look at Allen Iverson taking a team to the finals with far less talent than any season Shaq played. Jason Kidd did the same thing, won a chip when he was old but maintained his same level of productivity. Is there an argument for Shaq over Jordan and Hakeem? How about Duncan and Kobe? We saw how poorly he performed during his career even though he had all that talent, all of those calls, and all of that raw natural ability.

#10 - The changing of the rules/build of teams....Shaq only made 50% of his free throws so the league changed the rules to help him out. Shaq didn't have to play against the great centers of the 80's/70's/60's. Not a single center cracked the top 75 after Shaq.

Many of you think Shaq's great good for you...I don't I think he was very good. I believe in judging players based on their contemporaries in position and generation so for me Shaq not a high ranked player all-time.

[tpols]

Shaq was 1st option during the 3peat, Kobe was 1st option when they were losing in the 2nd round and getting curb stomped as massive favorites in the Finals.

You must have forgot when Kobe as 1st option led back to back title teams without Shaq.

[tontoz]

U must have missed the part where I said Shaq is an all time top 10 player and I actually list him 10th in the all time rankings.
My point is anyone putting him in the top 6 all time is committing an atrocious blasphemy.


So Shaq being rated 6th ,as opposed to 10th, makes him the most overrated player in history?

:roll:

[Phoenix]

So Shaq being rated 6th ,as opposed to 10th, makes him the most overrated player in history?

:roll:

That's what I always found funny about these rankings. Asides from how subjective it all is, people act like the 7th ranked player and...the 9th is some massive chasm when at this level the differences are minute and pretty circumstantial. Who you played with, when you came along, and the rules you played under all play a part but the low hanging fruit argument is always to wave around accomplishments, because that's much easier on the surface to compare than actually dissenting why one player should be ranked over another on the basis of how good they are on the court.

[SouBeachTalents]

So Shaq being rated 6th ,as opposed to 10th, makes him the most overrated player in history?

:roll:
7th is ok, but 6th is an ATROCIOUS BLASPHEMY :oldlol:

[Johnny32]

I stopped reading after the first sentence when you typed that you rank shaq top 10 or close like everyone else here. Cool topic title though!

[Johnny32]

I don't even know anyone who has shaq top 5. Maybe peak but no one ranks players by peak.

[90sgoat]

I can agree somewhat.

He was lazy and had a number of weaknesses, not only free throw shooting, but also a very small effective range. Push him 10 feet out and he can't do anything except pass the ball out and try to get better position. Basically if you can take away the entry pass to the deep post, then he becomes mangeable. Put a big center on him and hustle the guards. Jazz wins both times.

He's definitely not better than Kareem and Hakeem was better in his peak. Duncan is also better in terms of impact on both sides.

[StrongLurk]

Kobe is the most overrated player in the top ten, pretty easily.

In fact, the ONLY people I see shit on Shaq are the Kobe stans due to their inferiority complex.

[DaRkJaWs]

Kobe is the most overrated player in the top ten, pretty easily.

In fact, the ONLY people I see shit on Shaq are the Kobe stans due to their inferiority complex.

Kobe was easily better than Shaq. He was no MJ, that's for sure, but he was better than Shaq. Stfu.

[1987_Lakers]

Kobe is the most overrated player in the top ten, pretty easily.

In fact, the ONLY people I see shit on Shaq are the Kobe stans due to their inferiority complex.

Kobe isn't even considered top 10 by most fans.

[Overdrive]

I can agree somewhat.

He was lazy and had a number of weaknesses, not only free throw shooting, but also a very small effective range. Push him 10 feet out and he can't do anything except pass the ball out and try to get better position. Basically if you can take away the entry pass to the deep post, then he becomes mangeable. Put a big center on him and hustle the guards. Jazz wins both times.

He's definitely not better than Kareem and Hakeem was better in his peak. Duncan is also better in terms of impact on both sides.

Stop embarrassing yourself. Calling yourself 90sgoat while having no knowledge about the era.

[DaRkJaWs]

Stop embarrassing yourself. Calling yourself 90sgoat while having no knowledge about the era.

Oh, so can you tell me how many times Shaq got swept in the 90s?

[ILLsmak]

Ask the people who played against him. haha.

https://youtu.be/vrhGKxTBjmU?t=190

I feel like Shaq actually is massively underrated nowadays. I am a Shaq fan because no one was ever like him, but I was always like yeah he's not that great, etc... but looking back, he kinda was? He did sleep during the season, but that's kinda a testament to how good he was. Other guys it was like if he wasn't so lazy, he could have been HoF, but with Shaq it's like... he was top 10 with 4 rings, if he wasn't so lazy, he would have been GOAT. And honestly, I don't think Shaq cared. But nobody wanted to bang with Shaq. Shaq houses any C in history if the refs let people play where they can back people in and that they have room to pivot. If he can't do that, he'll still bang with anyone, but he won't destroy them.

Like everyone said, teams that were gonna play LA had 2-3 stiffs to bring in just to foul him. They changed a lot of rules to stop Shaq.

in summary, u trippin.

-Smak

[StrongLurk]

Kobe was easily better than Shaq. He was no MJ, that's for sure, but he was better than Shaq. Stfu.

Easily better than Shaq? Sure buddy...sure.

[SouBeachTalents]

Easily better than Shaq? Sure buddy...sure.
EASILY better.

[Wally450]

Kobe was easily better than Shaq. He was no MJ, that's for sure, but he was better than Shaq. Stfu.

Lol, we’ve seen enough boys, wrap it up.

[paksat]

shot 58% with 13 boards on the way to 29 ppg in 2001

while getting 4 asssits and 3 blocks as well

kobe was EASILY BETTER

[HoopsNY]

Shaq was All NBA 14 times, 8 of those first team. OP must be sniffing glue or something.

Who has been overrating Shaq? I sure haven't seen it.

The mere fact that Shaq's career (aside from his weight problems) is never criticized is reason enough to say he's overrated. Shaq is constantly praised by everyone and no one ever speaks of his failures, yet everyone is quick to bring up Wilt's, Hakeem's, Bird's, MJ's, LeBron's, Kobe's, etc.

[HoopsNY]

Oh, so can you tell me how many times Shaq got swept in the 90s?

I spoke about Shaq in another thread...


The numbers are very similar, including advanced stats. Shaq's PER is higher but Bird's BPM is higher. Bird's VORP is 14.9 while Shaq's is 15.1, but VORP is a longevity stat anyhow. Shaq's WS/48 is .189 to Bird's .181. Shaq has the higher TS% but that's a given for someone who takes 99% of his baskets from 0-3 ft.

My reason for Bird is while Shaq had the edge on scoring, Bird makes up for it with his shooting, playmaking, help defense, and leadership. He went into dogfights into almost every finals against elite competition and didn't need a league to influence the outcome like 2002 or refs to give an advantage given how many offensive fouls were never called for Shaq.

In addition, I think Shaq underachieved given the elite players he played with. He wins the scoring title in '94 (I know Robinson won it but for me Shaq won it) and then puts up 20 PPG against Indiana who weren't an elite defensive team. Shaq had a super-team in Orlando and people forget that both Anderson and Scott were near 20 PPG scorers before Shaq and Penny arrived, and then they added an All-Star who was also All-Defensive 2nd Team in Horace Grant. The result? A sweep against the GOAT Hakeem and then swept by MJ and co in '96.

Then Shaq is 1 of 4 All-Stars in 1997 and 1998 and gets beaten like a rag doll against Utah. Then in 1999 they add Glen Rice, who people forget was a 26 PPG scorer before with Charlotte and they got swept by SAS.

2002 was an obviously rigged series against the Kings, otherwise the Lakers dont 3-peat, and then Shaq plays on another super-team with GP and Malone in 2004 to get manhandled by Detroit.

For all of the "longevity" talk. Do people forget that Shaq's poor work ethic is what actually killed the weight of his longevity? His weight problems were a significant issue during the latter stages being with LA and it carried over into his tenure with Miami. Yea he played long, but it greatly affected his impact on the court.

What did he do alongside Wade after winning a chip? 1st round sweep? What happened with A'mare and Nash? Shaq was an All-Star in 2009 and couldn't help his team to the playoffs? Broken back Bird led his team to 56 wins in 1991 and 51 wins in 1992, despite playing with 1/4 of a body.

How many guys have had the luxury of playing with peak Penny, Kobe, Wade, Nash, and LeBron, and have played on as many super-teams as Shaq?

And yet somehow, Shaq managed to miss the playoffs 2x, get gentleman swept 4x, and be swept 6x in his career. In Bird's entire career, he had just 1 sweep and 1 gentleman sweep.

Was Shaq really better and more impactful than Bird?

Somehow people always talk about West's failures in the finals, Baylor not winning any, MJ's first round sweeps, LeBron's finals records....but Shaq? What sweeps? What gentleman sweeps? He clearly never missed the playoffs.

[RRR3]

The mere fact that Shaq's career (aside from his weight problems) is never criticized is reason enough to say he's overrated. Shaq is constantly praised by everyone and no one ever speaks of his failures, yet everyone is quick to bring up Wilt's, Hakeem's, Bird's, MJ's, LeBron's, Kobe's, etc.
Shaq is not criticized less than MJ lmao. That’s absurd. Only on message boards do you see people say MJ wasn’t perfect

[Overdrive]

The mere fact that Shaq's career (aside from his weight problems) is never criticized is reason enough to say he's overrated. Shaq is constantly praised by everyone and no one ever speaks of his failures, yet everyone is quick to bring up Wilt's, Hakeem's, Bird's, MJ's, LeBron's, Kobe's, etc.

Shaq was one of the most criticized player back in the day. His ft woes, conditioning, goofing, rapping, movie making und thus lack of commitment, sweeps, lack of leadership , lack of championships until 2001, missed games, rebounding, PnR defense,..., were all heavily criticized.

Well ofc the criticism died off after his career end. Just like it died off for anyone, it will also for Lebron.

Wilt is a special case, because he couldn't stop promoting himself while he always attacked the current players up until he died. Ofc people digged up his failures, just like they did when Shaq attacked Dwight.

[WhiteKyrie]

The mere fact that Shaq's career (aside from his weight problems) is never criticized is reason enough to say he's overrated. Shaq is constantly praised by everyone and no one ever speaks of his failures, yet everyone is quick to bring up Wilt's, Hakeem's, Bird's, MJ's, LeBron's, Kobe's, etc.
Same for Duncan, Kareem and slightly lesser extent Magic. Anyone who definitively takes Magic over Bird is a damn moron. Or racist. Or both.

[90sgoat]

Shaq was one of the most criticized player back in the day. His ft woes, conditioning, goofing, rapping, movie making und thus lack of commitment, sweeps, lack of leadership , lack of championships until 2001, missed games, rebounding, PnR defense,..., were all heavily criticized.

Well ofc the criticism died off after his career end. Just like it died off for anyone, it will also for Lebron.

Wilt is a special case, because he couldn't stop promoting himself while he always attacked the current players up until he died. Ofc people digged up his failures, just like they did when Shaq attacked Dwight.

Facts.

Shaq, for all his ability, could not get past two goofy white guys and Karl Malone. Struggled against Greg Ostertag, admitted to struggle against Rik Smits.

Shaq only won when Hakeem, Ewing, D-Rob etc were retired.

[Wardell Curry]

Peak Shaq was arguably the best offensive player in NBA history with Curry probably being the only other one in the discussion.

His ability to disrupt the other team's defense had teams completely falling apart in the early 2000s.

[tpols]

Peak Shaq was arguably the best offensive player in NBA history with Curry probably being the only other one in the discussion.

His ability to disrupt the other team's defense had teams completely falling apart in the early 2000s.


That's really only applicable if you're talking about the poorer eastern conference competition ie pacers, sixers, nets.

The spurs beat prime Shaq twice including a sweep, the blazers were a historic choke away from winning up 15 in the 4thQ of a Game 7, and the Kings were also a hair and a choke (and possibly rig) away from barely losing. Shaq wasn't caving in the top competition in the Lakers title runs at all.

[Baller234]

Peak Shaq was arguably the best offensive player in NBA history with Curry probably being the only other one in the discussion.

His ability to disrupt the other team's defense had teams completely falling apart in the early 2000s.

The best offensive player in history but couldn't hit free throws? The best offensive player in history but couldn't close?

[Wardell Curry]

That's really only applicable if you're talking about the poorer eastern conference competition ie pacers, sixers, nets.

The spurs beat prime Shaq twice including a sweep, the blazers were a historic choke away from winning up 15 in the 4thQ of a Game 7, and the Kings were also a hair and a choke (and possibly rig) away from barely losing. Shaq wasn't caving in the top competition in the Lakers title runs at all.


Ok, only winning a series matters. Fine. So Bill Russell is your GOAT right?

[tontoz]

The mere fact that Shaq's career (aside from his weight problems) is never criticized is reason enough to say he's overrated. Shaq is constantly praised by everyone and no one ever speaks of his failures, yet everyone is quick to bring up Wilt's, Hakeem's, Bird's, MJ's, LeBron's, Kobe's, etc.


Shaq used to get criticized all the time. He just doesn't get talked about as much now

If anyone gets a free pass now it's Hakeem. A lot of people focus on his two title runs and gloss over all of his first round exits, selfishness and inconsistency.

[Baller234]

Shaq used to get criticized all the time. He just doesn't get talked about as much now

If anyone gets a free pass now it's Hakeem. A lot of people focus on his two title runs and gloss over all of his first round exits, selfishness and inconsistency.

It's not how you start, it's how you finish.

https://staticg.sportskeeda.com/editor/2022/07/cfddc-16584109439350-1920.jpg?w=840

^ Nobody even remembers the guy on the right.

Olajuwon went to the finals his 2nd year, so the potential for greatness was always there. His peak was so high and what he accomplished was so definitive that it washed away any negative thoughts you may have had. Part of being great means proving the doubters wrong. He did that and then some.

[ILLsmak]

I spoke about Shaq in another thread...



Somehow people always talk about West's failures in the finals, Baylor not winning any, MJ's first round sweeps, LeBron's finals records....but Shaq? What sweeps? What gentleman sweeps? He clearly never missed the playoffs.

Too many words for what u sayin. Shaq was carrying phx after everyone quit. Now ppl care about what dudes did after they win rings haha. U right tho shaq didnt have that same hunger but nobody was close to shaq so how could he? Mj n kobe were playing someones ghost, even they had some comp. Nobody was coming in the league like its the next shaq!! I think if his prime aligned w another great c, we would have seen a better career.

-Smak

[paksat]

lots of people have never seen much of shaq

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tsX-HLz-9g4&t=645s&ab_channel=MaxaMillion711

[Axe]

lots of people have never seen much of shaq

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tsX-HLz-9g4&t=645s&ab_channel=MaxaMillion711
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS0jyEZ10bbadCcXxM_gQCws24jUv_ej zSRew&usqp=CAU

:kobe:

[brownmamba00]

What happened to Shaq_attack?

[ILLsmak]

What happened to Shaq_attack?

He left cuz of massive alt spam likely. Not everyone built for this. I try to avoid cuz its hard not to make lil jokes. But this site went thru a transformation, tbh prol started when la got gasol, went nuts for big 3 heat and then it just went off the edge. It still has cool people. Id say all people are cool, but the alt thing annoys me.

Dudes got alts!! Whyyy??

-Smak

[John8204]

The best offensive player in history but couldn't hit free throws? The best offensive player in history but couldn't close?

Let's not forget three of the shadiest officiated series of all-time led to three of Shaq's rings.

[Axe]

The best offensive player in history but couldn't hit free throws? The best offensive player in history but couldn't close?
Looks like shaq attracted more opposing bodies while he's on the floor during his younger years than kobe ever could. :kobe:

[Baller234]

Looks like shaq attracted more opposing bodies while he's on the floor during his younger years than kobe ever could. :kobe:

I've never heard opposing players talk about Shaq the way they talk about Kobe. Mostly everyone who played against both says that Kobe was the most unstoppable player they ever faced.

And that's beside the point, this isn't a debate between Shaq and Kobe. This is a debate as to whether or not Shaq is the best offensive player in history. I'm saying he had too many weaknesses for that to be true.

[brownmamba00]

He left cuz of massive alt spam likely. Not everyone built for this. I try to avoid cuz its hard not to make lil jokes. But this site went thru a transformation, tbh prol started when la got gasol, went nuts for big 3 heat and then it just went off the edge. It still has cool people. Id say all people are cool, but the alt thing annoys me.

Dudes got alts!! Whyyy??

-Smak
You have got to be batshit crazy to have alts on this shitty outdated site.

[Axe]

I've never heard opposing players talk about Shaq the way they talk about Kobe. Mostly everyone who played against both says that Kobe was the most unstoppable player they ever faced.

And that's beside the point, this isn't a debate between Shaq and Kobe. This is a debate as to whether or not Shaq is the best offensive player in history. I'm saying he had too many weaknesses for that to be true.
That's probably due to the recency bias since we all know kobe has been gone for years already. Thus, cannot be reached and isn't returning anymore. That's why people are still reminiscing about his legacy. And yes. Even if some people think that shaq is best offensive player in the league, he still has notable weaknesses; he's heavy and slow. Agile guards can exploit him. Plus, he's prone being drawn to fouls and we all know he isn't that great in the free throw line.