Does Gordon Hayward count as a “What if?” or did we get about all there was to get?

[Kblaze8855]

https://youtu.be/Jx87atIFbKI?si=fSuVChDLY5nuqY2b

I kinda miss him. I know he still exists but…still.

[iamgine]

The "what if" part is Celtics. Went to ECF without him & Kyrie.

[ILLsmak]

I still remm looking away super super fast at that. Yea thats a what if but he was too gassed for gm one. He wasnt gonna be some superstar but he was a legit player on a legit team. Prol on peds and dudes gave him one to get n he got one. Thats not supposed to happen!! I still dono how ppl can watch the vid. But yea hes a cool 20 ppg championship contributor imo. He didnt need to be all over the rim. He went too far.

-Smak

[Xiao Yao You]

The "what if" part is Celtics. Went to ECF without him & Kyrie.

Plenty of what ifs before he went to Boston.

[L.Kizzle]

He made his 1st All-Star team his 7th season. He was peaking, not sure if he would have been much better.

[Lebron23]

better than Jeff hornacek

[Xiao Yao You]

He made his 1st All-Star team his 7th season. He was peaking, not sure if he would have been much better.

never thought he'd reach the level he did

[Xiao Yao You]

better than Jeff hornacek

debatable

[90sgoat]

better than Jeff hornacek

No, definitely not.

Hayward was one of the most overrated white guys in league history.

[Xiao Yao You]

No, definitely not.

Hayward was one of the most overrated white guys in league history.

how was he ever overrated?

[Kblaze8855]

I was wondering the same. Who rated him highly to begin with? He was largely ignored even when he was playing like a star.

[Real Men Wear Green]

I know I paid no attention to Hayward until he came to Boston. A guy had to be great to get the East coast to stay up late to watch Utah. The"What if" with him is what the Celtics would have done if he never broke his leg. I am really not sure. On paper a great improvement but the driving force behind the Celtics resurgence has been Tatum and Brown growing up faster than anyone thought they would. The next season when Hayward returned it didn't work out well. He wasn't the same player but possibly even more important Brown got pushed to the bench and statistically regressed (the only time that's ever happened with him) to a 13 ppg player. Tatum wasn't as badly effected but his small statistical improvement was also a result of being underused. These guys still would have worked on their games if Hayward had j been able to play but it would have taken them both longer to take the team over. He played their main positions and before he got hurt he was better than them as well as older so the dynamic would make everything change. It's very possible, if Brown and Tatum had spent that third year with Irving and Hayward dominating the ball, that they develop as three and d guys to just fit in instead of becoming franchise players.

But if Tatum and Brown could have developed the same with Hayward staying healthy as a big point guard I could definitely see them winning a title.

[Xiao Yao You]

I know I paid no attention to Hayward until he came to Boston. A guy had to be great to get the East coast to stay up late to watch Utah. The"What if" with him is what the Celtics would have done if he never broke his leg. I am really not sure. On paper a great improvement but the driving force behind the Celtics resurgence has been Tatum and Brown growing up faster than anyone thought they would. The next season when Hayward returned it didn't work out well. He wasn't the same player but possibly even more important Brown got pushed to the bench and statistically regressed (the only time that's ever happened with him) to a 13 ppg player. Tatum wasn't as badly effected but his small statistical improvement was also a result of being underused. These guys still would have worked on their games if Hayward had j been able to play but it would have taken them both longer to take the team over. He played their main positions and before he got hurt he was better than them as well as older so the dynamic would make everything change. It's very possible, if Brown and Tatum had spent that third year with Irving and Hayward dominating the ball, that they develop as three and d guys to just fit in instead of becoming franchise players.

But if Tatum and Brown could have developed the same with Hayward staying healthy as a big point guard I could definitely see them winning a title.

Hayward wouldn't have dominated the ball though. Unselfish all around player. Should have been at the 4 anyway

[Xiao Yao You]

Could have done nothing but helped Mitchell if he wasn't allowed to become a gunner right away because Hayward was still in Utah

[Clifton]

We saw what he was, there just should have been more of him. We got the quality but not the quantity. Like Grant Hill and Penny, except about one tier below.

My 'what if' is not the Celtics, but the Jazz. What if he had stayed? Might he never have gotten hurt in the first place? They draft Mitchell anyway, right? Mitchell's biggest problem was that he wouldn't pass, especially to Gobert; perhaps Hayward is the third piece that smoothes out the offense, makes sure Gobert gets the ball, etc. I don't think it's impossible they get a title somewhere. It's been touch and go with these Finals teams lately; different champion every year, and some of the weakest champions in recent memory (Warriors, Lakers)..

[Xiao Yao You]

We saw what he was, there just should have been more of him. We got the quality but not the quantity. Like Grant Hill and Penny, except about one tier below.

My 'what if' is not the Celtics, but the Jazz. What if he had stayed? Might he never have gotten hurt in the first place? They draft Mitchell anyway, right? Mitchell's biggest problem was that he wouldn't pass, especially to Gobert; perhaps Hayward is the third piece that smoothes out the offense, makes sure Gobert gets the ball, etc. I don't think it's impossible they get a title somewhere. It's been touch and go with these Finals teams lately; different champion every year, and some of the weakest champions in recent memory (Warriors, Lakers)..

Mitchell was playing a summer league game for the Jazz when it was announced Hayward was leaving. The worst part was that Hayward approved the bizarre signing of the Matador which never made any sense other than they didn't want to pay Hill while keeping Hayward happy. A bigger problem with Mitchell is he refused to put any effort on D. He was a better defender as a rookie and it was supposed to be his thing. Hayward and Gobert were certainly better than Mitchell/Gobert because Hayward is a good all around player while Mitchell is one a one dimensional gunner. Hill also one of the best Gobert played with especially before he hurt his toe early in the year and was never the same. Arguably their best player his month

[tpols]

No, definitely not.

Hayward was one of the most overrated white guys in league history.

Hayward is a big muscular guy compared to Jeff. They're both high IQ and skilled, but Hayward has better athleticism.

[Xiao Yao You]

Hayward is a big muscular guy compared to Jeff. They're both high IQ and skilled, but Hayward has better athleticism.

Horny a better shooter and playmaker

[tpols]

Horny a better shooter and playmaker

Not by much.

[Jasper]

Could have done nothing but helped Mitchell if he wasn't allowed to become a gunner right away because Hayward was still in Utah

had a break out season and a 1/2 with Utah and landed what was to be a career in Boston.

When the gruesome injury occurred , many thought he would never play bball.
Took about two years , to truly come back , but is not his 100% of where he was in Utah.

He is a veteran and probably a great locker room teammate as well.

We got about all there is.

BUT : If he lands on a title team contender , he could be that 4th missing piece that wins a chip.
Hope that happens to him, to cap his career.

[Xiao Yao You]

Not by much.

by a lot. Hayward has been an inconsistent 3 point shooter. Horny is one of the best ever not that Sloan cared. Horny was pretty much a bigger less athletic Stockton when he played the point for Utah

[Real Men Wear Green]

Hayward wouldn't have dominated the ball though. Unselfish all around player. Should have been at the 4 anyway

I'm not saying he's selfish but he has to get some touches. None of these guys are true ball dominators but they all have to get the ball to make plays. Even on Hayward good days he didn't fit well with Tatum, Brown and Kemba Walker and Stevens didn't play them all together that often. Hayward was actually the most point guard like player on the team in his approach to offense and it wasn't truly bad but he's still not really a point guard and the individual players are better when they get more touches. How many great teams have their been that featured three great wings? It's hard to make it fit.

[Kblaze8855]

Prime Hornacek was a better spot up unathletic Manu minus a heaping teaspoon of craftiness. He was crafty. He just wasn’t all time crafty like Manu. Really good player.

[Xiao Yao You]

I'm not saying he's selfish but he has to get some touches. None of these guys are true ball dominators but they all have to get the ball to make plays. Even on Hayward good days he didn't fit well with Tatum, Brown and Kemba Walker and Stevens didn't play them all together that often. Hayward was actually the most point guard like player on the team in his approach to offense and it wasn't truly bad but he's still not really a point guard and the individual players are better when they get more touches. How many great teams have their been that featured three great wings? It's hard to make it fit.

Hayward should have been at the 4 in today's game

[Real Men Wear Green]

Hayward should have been at the 4 in today's game
You can call him the ballboy it doesn't change what he really is. Celtics often start Tatum at 4 it's not that important what he's called. On offense he would have the same abilities and role no matter what he is called.