Why didn't Vince Carter and TMac work out?

[tpols]

How did this duo not pan out? Seems like a crazy duo athleticism wise. And skill wise.

[Kblaze8855]

Once they got rid of that first coach, they didn’t get along with it was working out fine basketball wise. But Tracy grew up like 30 minutes from Orlando and it was known he wouldn’t sign back in Toronto. It was Orlando or Miami. He wanted to go home.

[L.Kizzle]

They're cousins. It would have worked if they wanted it to.
Easily the best cousin duo in league history.

[tpols]

Once they got rid of that first coach, they didn’t get along with. It was working out fine basketball wise. But Tracy grew up like 30 minutes from Orlando and it was known he wouldn’t sign back in Toronto. It was Orlando or Miami. He wanted to go home.

That's crazy because they could have killed the early 2000s east. Vince Carter was from Florida too. And Toronto isn't like Oklahoma or something. It's a mainstream major city.

[Kblaze8855]

He’s mentioned that he regrets leaving now because they could have contended like you expect it to with Grant Hill but at the time he just wanted to go home:





McGrady admitted that Toronto was at a disadvantage during negotiations because he grew up in the Orlando area.


"Toronto is also competing with Orlando, you know, I'm from there, you know what I'm saying?" McGrady continued. "So my childhood growing up, I'm watching (Dennis) Scott, Nick Anderson, Penny and Shaq and them boys and that's where I wanted to be.


"Because, you know, that inspired me to be an NBA player – watching those guys. I only grew up 30 minutes from where those boys were playing at. So that was my inspiration to have an opportunity at that time to go and play home. That's what Toronto was competing against."


In the decades since, Toronto has established itself as one of the league's best-run franchises and standards of excellence under the leadership of team President Masai Ujiri and General Manager Bobby Webster. McGrady acknowledged that if such leadership were in place in 2000, he would have remained with the team.
"I'll say this, too, the infrastructure, what it is in Toronto now, had it been back then, there's no doubt I would've stayed in Toronto."




Hometown advantage.

[tpols]

He’s mentioned that he regrets leaving now because they could have contended like you expect it to with Grant Hill but at the time he just wanted to go home:





Hometown advantage.

In hindsight that seems like a cop out. Carter quit on Toronto too but he at least stuck around for a while.

Orlando hasn't even been a well run franchise. They got Shaq. And a bit later Dwight. That's it... outside that they have been a joke for the past 30+ years.

[Kblaze8855]

Seems I had my timeline off. The coach they all hated was still there Tracy last season. Not only that he blamed playoff losses on upcoming free agency during the playoffs and had the whole team wanting out. I forgot how bad he was:





TORONTO -- Butch Carter has been blaming officials and contract problems for his Toronto Raptors' two losses in New York.Now his players are blaming him."One thing you don't do is take the focus away from what the real objective is, and that's to win games," guard Dee Brown (https://www.espn.com/nba/profiles/profile/0040.html)said Friday. "If you bring the outside stuff to the team you're going to have splinters."


https://www.espn.com/media/nba/2000/0301/photo/s_carter.jpg


Raptors coach Butch Carter can't seem to help stepping in it.


On Thursday, Carter blamed contract issues for his team's 2-0 playoff deficit against the New York Knicks."The biggest advantage the Knicks have over us is that their top eight guys are all under contract and focused on winning," Carter said. "Winning is the only thing they think about. It's not the case here."Guard Doug Christie (https://www.espn.com/nba/profiles/profile/0817.html) was angered by Carter's comments."For him to say that is ludicrous and to be expected," Christie said. "You say dumb stuff when you're in a position where you can't point the finger at anybody else."




He had all 5 of his best players and top vets publicly on his ass. Antonio Davis, Vince, Tmac, Christie….and he was in a lawsuit against Marcus Camby who was on the Knicks at that point and was criticizing him in the media from there calling him a liar the whole team hated.

he was suing Marcus Camby, for being mean to him to the press. Toronto alienated their entire core with that guy.

[Phoenix]

I wonder if those two would have maxed out playing with each other, though. Vince was the established star, but Tmac went from promising up and comer to like all-NBA level the moment he landed in Orlando. Does he still make that meteoric rise presumably playing second-fiddle to Vince, especially playing basically the same position? Kind of reminds me of the leap Harden made when he left OKC for Houston back in '13.




Orlando hasn't even been a well run franchise. They got Shaq. And a bit later Dwight. That's it... outside that they have been a joke for the past 30+ years.

And Penny. Hard to imagine that squad not winning at least 3-4 titles if Shaq stays and Penny doesn't fukk his knee.

[Real Men Wear Green]

I wonder if those two would have maxed out playing with each other, though. Vince was the established star, but Tmac went from promising up and comer to like all-NBA level the moment he landed in Orlando. Does he still make that meteoric rise presumably playing second-fiddle to Vince, especially playing basically the same position? Kind of reminds me of the leap Harden made when he left OKC for Houston back in '13.



And Penny. Hard to imagine that squad not winning at least 3-4 titles if Shaq stays and Penny doesn't fukk his knee.

McGrady would have been different. He himself has said that if he played with Kobe he wouldn't have been the scorer he became and his time in Toronto had him looking like the new Pippen. He would have stayed in that role just getting better at it. He absolutely had the talent to be an elite defender (and was when he focused on that end) and could run the team like a point guard on offense.

[Phoenix]

McGrady would have been different. He himself has said that if he played with Kobe he wouldn't have been the scorer he became and his time in Toronto had him looking like the new Pippen. He would have stayed in that role just getting better at it. He absolutely had the talent to be an elite defender (and was when he focused on that end) and could run the team like a point guard on offense.

Yes he came into the league as really being a 'defender'. When he left Toronto I didn't think at the time he was going to erupt as a scorer to the degree he did, and if Grant's ankle didn't derail his prime we wouldn't gotten what we got. Tmac and Vince would have clearly achieved more together than apart, but from an individual standpoint we got to see what each was respectively capable of (when healthy). Actually Tmac was 23 when he had that 2003 season we all remember, so his injuries really curtailed what could have been a truly epic prime.

[Lebron23]

They only played for 2 years. Nobody expected Tracy Mcgrady to averaged over 26 ppg when he signed a contract with the Orlando Magic. I think he averaged 15.4 ppg in his last year in Toronto, and 26.8 ppg in his first year in Orlando.

[jayfan]

Chemistry is more important than talent and athleticism.



.

[Real Men Wear Green]

Chemistry is more important than talent and athleticism.



.
Their chemistry wasn't bad they just didn't stick together long enough. They could have been on par with what were seeing from Tatum and Brown.

[tpols]

Chemistry is more important than talent and athleticism.
.


Sometimes I wonder if that is the case... I mean... I know that's the paramount factor. But how could tmac and Carter skillset not co-exist when we've seen so many less fitting combos at least be decent?

6'11 point forward with the most specular finisher ever.

That had the makings of greatness not just basketball wise but all sports. That could've been GOAT physical poetry.

[Phoenix]

Sometimes I wonder if that is the case... I mean... I know that's the paramount factor. But how could tmac and Carter skillset not co-exist when we've seen so many less fitting combos at least be decent?

6'11 point forward with the most specular finisher ever.

That had the makings of greatness not just basketball but all sports. That could've been GOAT physical poetry.

Tmac is listed at 6'8.

[tpols]

Tmac is listed at 6'8.

I don't believe that. Maybe the wingspan has me blinded.

[Phoenix]

I don't believe that. Maybe the wingspan has me blinded.

:confusedshrug: I'm just going off the listing on b-ball ref. He did have a great wingspan, of course. Here's Mac next to a (listed) 6'11 Garnett and Duncan:

https://i.pinimg.com/474x/4c/ea/54/4cea54e16c733b5e5232b49e9dfe43a9.jpg

https://i.pinimg.com/236x/be/6d/72/be6d72447114250adb8b27827ea31789--slam-magazine-magazine-covers.jpg

Excuse the first pic low res. Although it's speculated that Garnett was a legit 7 footer w/o shoes but didn't want to be known as a '7 footer'.

[theman93]

On an unrelated note, T-Mac had the best shoes back in those days :pimp:

https://i.pinimg.com/736x/9c/dd/7a/9cdd7ab10c77f955922ed071203db83b--orlando-adidas.jpg

https://artwalk.vteximg.com.br/arquivos/ids/298405-1000-1000/GY240-4-001-4.jpg?v=638042052330370000



https://sneakernews.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/adidas-T-MAC-2.0-EVO-FX4992-02.jpg

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQbNEsFOxZupLIVa1ofOT0RNqvWQdWwt 5WvzQ&usqp=CAU

[tpols]

:confusedshrug: I'm just going off the listing on b-ball ref. He did have a great wingspan, of course. Here's Mac next to a (listed) 6'11 Garnett and Duncan:

https://i.pinimg.com/474x/4c/ea/54/4cea54e16c733b5e5232b49e9dfe43a9.jpg

https://i.pinimg.com/236x/be/6d/72/be6d72447114250adb8b27827ea31789--slam-magazine-magazine-covers.jpg

Excuse the first pic low res. Although it's speculated that Garnett was a legit 7 footer w/o shoes but didn't want to be known as a '7 footer'.

True. Look at how much farther down tmac palms the ball than Duncan. Despite being shorter in height his shoulders are lower set and his arms are relatively longer. Probably why he had such a great handle at that height.

[ShawkFactory]

I think Tmac was a legit 6'9.

As far as him and Carter not working..it's not like they didn't. When McGrady left he was 20 and Carter was 23. He was going home to what, at the time, looked like a fantastic opportunity in Orlando.

[Phoenix]

True. Look at how much farther down tmac palms the ball than Duncan. Despite being shorter in height his shoulders are lower set and his arms are relatively longer. Probably why he had such a great handle at that height.

Yeah, if you're measuring at 6'8 but your wingspan is a few inches longer than a guy with a few inches extra in height, it does balance out. Grant Hill is listed at 6'8 but when you watched them on the court, Tmac did 'appear' taller/longer and I'm reading he has a wingspan between 7'1-7'3 ( can't seem to confirm exactly, but that's the range), to Hill's 6'11.

[Soundwave]

Jealousy ... T-Mac couldn't handle Vinsanity.

T-Mac has even said now he regrets leaving because even Kobe told him straight up if he had stayed in Toronto, Shaq-Kobe would be playing Vince-T-Mac in the NBA Finals.

[Phoenix]

Jealousy ... T-Mac couldn't handle Vinsanity.

T-Mac has even said now he regrets leaving because even Kobe told him straight up if he had stayed in Toronto, Shaq-Kobe would be playing Vince-T-Mac in the NBA Finals.

I suppose in terms of personal legacies and narrative, Tmac wouldn't be seen as the 'ultra talented what could have been loser' with a few finals trips, but that duo wasn't beating Shaq/Kobe.

[tpols]

I suppose in terms of personal legacies and narrative, Tmac wouldn't be seen as the 'ultra talented what could have been loser' with a few finals trips, but that duo wasn't beating Shaq/Kobe.

They probably lose because they have no center to guard Shaq, but it would be a more interesting series than any of LAs Finals opponents from that time period.

[Phoenix]

They probably lose because they have no center to guard Shaq, but it would be a more interesting series than any of LAs Finals opponents from that time period.

No doubt, on star power alone these matchups would have been huge. But yes Shaq would have been the difference here, because the Raptors bigs couldn't guard him( as you said), nor did they pose any real offensive threat to keep him honest on the other end. A more interesting scenario would have been Duncan ending up in Orlando. Even with Grant hobbled with his ankle, Tmac/Duncan could have pushed the Magic to the finals for a more interesting 2 on 2 dynamic against Shaq/Kobe ( the Lakers still hold major edges with role players in such a hypothetical)