Im Still Ballin
09-13-2023, 12:44 PM
Arbitrary cutoff of 200 attempts. It doesn't include any points from passing out of the post. It's just individual scoring that's measured by points generated (from FGs and FTs) versus missed shots and turnovers.
Not the best way to assess the quality of a post-up player. As with all stats, it lacks context. It doesn't tell you where they scored, how they scored, and what defense they faced. There's bound to be some human error and there are questions regarding the classification of play types.
Is a post-sprint bucket a transition or post-up score? Or both? Is an alley-oop from a spin move out of the post a finish or a post-up score? Is a pick-and-roll to establish deep position a PnR roll man or post-up score? Sometimes it's very vague and arbitrary.
Post-up PPP undersells Shaq and to a lesser extent Dwight as post-up players. They both had unrivaled physical gifts that allowed them to establish deep position more frequently and shoot higher percentages there.
Both of them also scored a lot of baskets out of those vague play types above. In fact, Dwight in his prime was close to performing that alley-oop spin move once every two games. When added to the post-up PPP, it goes up several points.
They also drew an unparalleled amount of fouls which, aside from the free throws themselves, adds offensive value. Getting players and their teams in foul trouble provides value on both ends of the court. Being a mismatch influences lineups, free agent acquisitions, trades, and draft selections. This happened for McHale, Shaq, and Dwight.
Post-up PPP also doesn't describe the off-ball gravity a post-up player creates. Shaq and to a lesser extent Dwight would get so deep they collapsed the defense without even touching the ball. This creates open shots on the perimeter as well as driving lanes to the rim.
Post defenders would sometimes stick to them like glue even when another offensive player would attack the rim. Losing contact would risk ceding position and most likely result in a lob, dump-off, or easy offensive rebound. This is the inverse spacing phenomenon you see at times with bigs that are physical mismatches. Whether by causing a switch or just by being a freak of nature.
So much about basketball is positioning; post-up PPP also doesn't tell us where a post player plays on the court. Is he a pinch-post/high-post/mid-post face-up type like Bosh, Dirk, Webber, and Carmelo? Or is he a low-post/deep-post back-to-the-basket type like Shaq, Dwight, and Wilt? Or maybe he's versatile and can do both.
The spacing and gravity created are different for a post-up player who works deep in the paint like Shaq versus someone who operates from the elbow like Dirk. Both are equally viable but, due to positioning, naturally segue into other play types that create additional value that post-up PPP misses.
Shaq and Dwight's deep-post position naturally flowed into dump-offs, alley-oops, tip-ins, and put-backs. Both were extraordinary finishers and offensive rebounders in their prime. Where their post-up game positions them on the court is contextually related to their efficacy as offensive threats in these other play types.
So... don't look too much into these numbers.
Top Post-up Scorers [minimum 200 attempts]
2005: Amar'e Stoudemire (1.037 PPP)
2006: Elton Brand (1.031 PPP)
2007: Kevin Garnett (1.059 PPP)
2008: Chris Bosh (1.052 PPP)
2009 - Pau Gasol (1.034 PPP)
2010 - Chris Bosh (1.093 PPP)
2011 - Dirk Nowitzki (1.149 PPP)
2012 - Carl Landry (1.045 PPP)
2013 - Kobe Bryant (1.050 PPP)
2014 - LeBron James (1.084 PPP)
2015 - Jonas Valanciunas (1.023 PPP)
2016 - Paul Millsap (1.04 PPP)
2017 - Nikola Jokic (1.12 PPP)
2018 - Karl-Anthony Towns (1.02 PPP)
2019 - Joel Embiid (1.05 PPP)
2020 - Joel Embiid (1.10 PPP)
2021 - Joel Embiid (1.08 PPP)
2022 - Nikola Jokic (1.17 PPP)
2023 - Nikola Jokic (1.22 PPP)
Not the best way to assess the quality of a post-up player. As with all stats, it lacks context. It doesn't tell you where they scored, how they scored, and what defense they faced. There's bound to be some human error and there are questions regarding the classification of play types.
Is a post-sprint bucket a transition or post-up score? Or both? Is an alley-oop from a spin move out of the post a finish or a post-up score? Is a pick-and-roll to establish deep position a PnR roll man or post-up score? Sometimes it's very vague and arbitrary.
Post-up PPP undersells Shaq and to a lesser extent Dwight as post-up players. They both had unrivaled physical gifts that allowed them to establish deep position more frequently and shoot higher percentages there.
Both of them also scored a lot of baskets out of those vague play types above. In fact, Dwight in his prime was close to performing that alley-oop spin move once every two games. When added to the post-up PPP, it goes up several points.
They also drew an unparalleled amount of fouls which, aside from the free throws themselves, adds offensive value. Getting players and their teams in foul trouble provides value on both ends of the court. Being a mismatch influences lineups, free agent acquisitions, trades, and draft selections. This happened for McHale, Shaq, and Dwight.
Post-up PPP also doesn't describe the off-ball gravity a post-up player creates. Shaq and to a lesser extent Dwight would get so deep they collapsed the defense without even touching the ball. This creates open shots on the perimeter as well as driving lanes to the rim.
Post defenders would sometimes stick to them like glue even when another offensive player would attack the rim. Losing contact would risk ceding position and most likely result in a lob, dump-off, or easy offensive rebound. This is the inverse spacing phenomenon you see at times with bigs that are physical mismatches. Whether by causing a switch or just by being a freak of nature.
So much about basketball is positioning; post-up PPP also doesn't tell us where a post player plays on the court. Is he a pinch-post/high-post/mid-post face-up type like Bosh, Dirk, Webber, and Carmelo? Or is he a low-post/deep-post back-to-the-basket type like Shaq, Dwight, and Wilt? Or maybe he's versatile and can do both.
The spacing and gravity created are different for a post-up player who works deep in the paint like Shaq versus someone who operates from the elbow like Dirk. Both are equally viable but, due to positioning, naturally segue into other play types that create additional value that post-up PPP misses.
Shaq and Dwight's deep-post position naturally flowed into dump-offs, alley-oops, tip-ins, and put-backs. Both were extraordinary finishers and offensive rebounders in their prime. Where their post-up game positions them on the court is contextually related to their efficacy as offensive threats in these other play types.
So... don't look too much into these numbers.
Top Post-up Scorers [minimum 200 attempts]
2005: Amar'e Stoudemire (1.037 PPP)
2006: Elton Brand (1.031 PPP)
2007: Kevin Garnett (1.059 PPP)
2008: Chris Bosh (1.052 PPP)
2009 - Pau Gasol (1.034 PPP)
2010 - Chris Bosh (1.093 PPP)
2011 - Dirk Nowitzki (1.149 PPP)
2012 - Carl Landry (1.045 PPP)
2013 - Kobe Bryant (1.050 PPP)
2014 - LeBron James (1.084 PPP)
2015 - Jonas Valanciunas (1.023 PPP)
2016 - Paul Millsap (1.04 PPP)
2017 - Nikola Jokic (1.12 PPP)
2018 - Karl-Anthony Towns (1.02 PPP)
2019 - Joel Embiid (1.05 PPP)
2020 - Joel Embiid (1.10 PPP)
2021 - Joel Embiid (1.08 PPP)
2022 - Nikola Jokic (1.17 PPP)
2023 - Nikola Jokic (1.22 PPP)