Giannis 2021:“It’s easy to go somewhere and go win a championship with somebody else"

[8Ball]

So it wasn't even 2 years until Giannis started publicly telling his front office to make moves or else he was gone.


What happened?



There are zero "loyalty" super stars left in this league that don't go out of their way to recruit/join top tier talent.



Looks like leaving their own fate to their GM doesn't always pay dividends. You don't always have a superstar GM like Jerry Kraus to deliver you a super team. Players have to force things.

[ArbitraryWater]

This is indeed true.


Dirk is genuiney the ony exampe of an ATG that stuck it out on insufficient teams, never making demands, in fact even rejecting offers from other superstars to team up.


I think Jokic woud be simiar.

[tontoz]

Giannis has played on a small market team for 10 years. Dame for 11 years. I think that qualifies them as loyal.

If they played on 3-4 teams over that time then their loyalty could be questioned.

[Axe]

This is indeed true.


Dirk is genuiney the ony exampe of an ATG that stuck it out on insufficient teams, never making demands, in fact even rejecting offers from other superstars to team up.


I think Jokic woud be simiar.
Interesting but coincidentay, dirk was drafted by miwaukee too. Tho he was immediatey traded to daas bt.

[Full Court]

Translation: "Bronie should be given a title on a silver platter. It's not fair that teams other than the Lakers try to stack good players!!! Not fair at all!!! :cry:"


:lol

[ArbitraryWater]

Giannis has played on a small market team for 10 years. Dame for 11 years. I think that qualifies them as loyal.

If they played on 3-4 teams over that time then their loyalty could be questioned.

loyalty shouldnt be gauged by how long you stay in a city but how long you are willing to stay in a city on a poor team, especially as superstar. Giannis had no business moving teams the first 5 years.

Giannis even with a competent team made demands pretty quickly.

[warriorfan]

Giannis won without team hopping or collision already

It’s over.

[Axe]

So it wasn't even 2 years until Giannis started publicly telling his front office to make moves or else he was gone.


What happened?



There are zero "loyalty" super stars left in this league that don't go out of their way to recruit/join top tier talent.



Looks like leaving their own fate to their GM doesn't always pay dividends. You don't always have a superstar GM like Jerry Kraus to deliver you a super team. Players have to force things.
Looks like this line must've struck a nerve. :oldlol:

[tontoz]

loyalty shouldnt be gauged by how long you stay in a city but how long you are willing to stay in a city on a poor team, especially as superstar. Giannis had no business moving teams the first 5 years.

Giannis even with a competent team made demands pretty quickly.


Making demands after 10 years can't be described as quickly under any circumstances. And he hasn't demanded to be traded, he has just made it clear he doesn't want to be part of a rebuild.

The Bucks were well below .500 during his first 4 years so he definitely could have tried to force a trade after his rookie deal was up.

[warriorfan]

Making demands after 10 years can't be described as quickly under any circumstances. And he hasn't demanded to be traded, he has just made it clear he doesn't want to be part of a rebuild.

The Bucks were well below .500 during his first 4 years so he definitely could have tried to force a trade after his rookie deal was up.

:roll:

watching lebron stans try to desperately conflate Giannis’ and Dame’s situation with James is hilarious

[tontoz]

:roll:

watching lebron stans try to desperately conflate Giannis’ and Dame’s situation with James is hilarious

To be fair Lebron's first stint with the Cavs was 7 years and he left as a free agent. He certainly earned the right to leave.

But leaving a 60+ win team to join the 2nd best player in the conference along with another All-Star wasn't a good look.

[Axe]

To be fair Lebron's first stint with the Cavs was 7 years and he left as a free agent. He certainly earned the right to leave.

But leaving a 60+ win team to join the 2nd best player in the conference along with another All-Star wasn't a good look.
What about kawhi's situation, uncle? What can be said about his departure from san antonio bt?

[Full Court]

Making demands after 10 years can't be described as quickly under any circumstances. And he hasn't demanded to be traded, he has just made it clear he doesn't want to be part of a rebuild.

The Bucks were well below .500 during his first 4 years so he definitely could have tried to force a trade after his rookie deal was up.

Yeah, OP just isn't very smart.

[tontoz]

What about kawhi's situation, uncle? What can be said about his departure from san antonio bt?

Kawhi is a bit nuts. I do give him credit for winning a ring with a team he clearly didn't want to play for, but something is off with this guy.

[Airupthere]

Wow brantards are proud of this bran legacy

[Full Court]

Wow brantards are proud of this bran legacy

It's ok, and even respectable, when LeShrivel does it. But if someone else does it......BITCH FIT

:lol

[8Ball]

Giannis has played on a small market team for 10 years. Dame for 11 years. I think that qualifies them as loyal.

If they played on 3-4 teams over that time then their loyalty could be questioned.

How are they loyal when they signed maxes and then either demand to get traded to a championship contender or tell front offices to make moves or else they are gone?


To be fair Lebron's first stint with the Cavs was 7 years and he left as a free agent. He certainly earned the right to leave.

But leaving a 60+ win team to join the 2nd best player in the conference along with another All-Star wasn't a good look.

How many games did that 60 win team win in 2011 after Bron left?

Did Bron play with anyone as good as Middleton or Jrue Holiday or Brook Lopez in 2010?

[8Ball]

Looks like all that talk about Giannis being a "stick it out" guy through thick and thin was false.


This guy wants high level talent around him like every other superstar.

[FireDavidKahn]

This is indeed true.


Dirk is genuiney the ony exampe of an ATG that stuck it out on insufficient teams, never making demands, in fact even rejecting offers from other superstars to team up.


I think Jokic woud be simiar.

KG was even more loyal.

[iamgine]

Giannis told no lie.

[8Ball]

This is indeed true.


Dirk is genuiney the ony exampe of an ATG that stuck it out on insufficient teams, never making demands, in fact even rejecting offers from other superstars to team up.


I think Jokic woud be simiar.

Dirk had some talent early on but stuck through it.



Jamal Murray is a superstar talent.

[8Ball]

Looks like this line must've struck a nerve. :oldlol:

Jerry Krause delivered Jordan a super team, there is no ifs and or but about that.


Jordan wanted Joe Wolf instead of Scottie Pippen and Horace Grant. Imagine if Jordan got his wish.

[Wardell Curry]

The reality of the situation is that the media and fans don't know how to evaluate how good players are at actually playing basketball. Most of them only look at championships/the results and that's it.

People here seem to be under the impression that championships are solely a reflection of any given individual players' skill/talent, rather than a combination of their skill/talent AND circumstances aka teammates / coaches / league competition none of which they have ultimately controlled.


Guess what? The players have decided that since fans and media are only going to judge them on championships, they're going to take control out of the hands of owners and stop just praying that they put a good team around them.

Even the players that have been judgemental of this in the past are starting to wake the **** up.

[Full Court]

Jerry Krause delivered Jordan a super team, there is no ifs and or but about that.


Jordan wanted Joe Wolf instead of Scottie Pippen and Horace Grant. Imagine if Jordan got his wish.

Yet Jordan WON with a super team.

LeShrivel led a super team to the lottery. He also choked a super team out of a title in 2011.:roll:

There are levels to greatness for sure.

[Airupthere]

Yet Jordan WON with a super team.

LeShrivel led a super team to the lottery. He also choked a super team out of a title in 2011.:roll:

There are levels to greatness for sure.

Lol imagine thinking that the version of Pippen and Horace that came to chicago is anything close to the version of Bosh, Wade, Love, Kyrie, and AD joining lebron.

[tontoz]

How are they loyal when they signed maxes and then either demand to get traded to a championship contender or tell front offices to make moves or else they are gone?



How many games did that 60 win team win in 2011 after Bron left?

Did Bron play with anyone as good as Middleton or Jrue Holiday or Brook Lopez in 2010?


Dame only demanded a trade after they used the 2nd pick on his replacement :oldlol:

Giannis hasn't demanded a trade at all.

I don't have a problem with Lebron leaving the Cavs after 7 years as a free agent. Leaving to join the 2nd best player in the conference who was also in his 20s and bringing in another All-Star in his 20s wasnt a good look. The way he did it was pretty awful.

"The Decision" then the big show in Miami "Not 4, not 5..." were seriously cringe.

[Airupthere]

Dame only demanded a trade after they used the 2nd pick on his replacement :oldlol:

Giannis hasn't demanded a trade at all.

I don't have a problem with Lebron leaving the Cavs after 7 years as a free agent. Leaving to join the 2nd best player in the conference who was also in his 20s and bringing in another All-Star in his 20s wasnt a good look. The way he did it was pretty awful.

"The Decision" then the big show in Miami "Not 4, not 5..." were seriously cringe.

In his mind, this is vindication, that an old lillard moving to the bucks is tantamount to the unprecedented superfriends/heatles/banana boat team being formed.

[warriorfan]

In his mind, this is vindication, that an old lillard moving to the bucks is tantamount to the unprecedented superfriends/heatles/banana boat team being formed.

:roll: :roll:

[8Ball]

Lol imagine thinking that the version of Pippen and Horace that came to chicago is anything close to the version of Bosh, Wade, Love, Kyrie, and AD joining lebron.

Scottie Pippen made multiple 1st team all-nba + won 55 games without Jordan in 1994 with Horace Grant as his number 2.

Let's see if Bosh, Love Kyrie and AD have done that.

[8Ball]

In his mind, this is vindication, that an old lillard moving to the bucks is tantamount to the unprecedented superfriends/heatles/banana boat team being formed.

Old Lillard: 32ppg in 2023 while he was 32 years old :roll:

[warriorfan]

Old Lillard: 32ppg in 2023 while he was 32 years old :roll:

he’s ancient compared too bron’s collusion at age 25

[tpols]

It's also easy to win when your team is loaded and can win an ECF without you like what happened 2 years ago.

[Airupthere]

Old Lillard: 32ppg in 2023 while he was 32 years old :roll:

Not even remotely close to a 26 year old in his prime hitting the panic button to form an unprecedented superteam. Lillard did not even want to be with the Bucks. He's f'n 32 lol.

[Gudo]

Why are lebron's cheerleaders celebratory to this? :oldlol: Does it negate anything he did?

[Hey Yo]

Why are lebron's cheerleaders celebratory to this? :oldlol: Does it negate anything he did?

No it doesn't negate his 4 rings, 4fmvp, 4mvp and all time scoring record.

[Gudo]

No it doesn't negate his 4 rings, 4fmvp, 4mvp and all time scoring record.

* :roll:

[dankok8]

Yep and Giannis didn't go anywhere. He merely got one top 20 player to join him while losing a key piece in Jrue Holiday.

Imagine comparing that to collusion. I mean I don't even hate on Lebron for doing what he did and for me it doesn't hurt his legacy but what Giannis did isn't even in the same galaxy.

[Wardell Curry]

Yep and Giannis didn't go anywhere. He merely got one top 20 player to join him while losing a key piece in Jrue Holiday.

Imagine comparing that to collusion. I mean I don't even hate on Lebron for doing what he did and for me it doesn't hurt his legacy but what Giannis did isn't even in the same galaxy.

You are right. LeBron never had a teammate as good as Middleton or Holiday prior to joining the Heat, lol.

In before Ilgauskas, Carlos Boozer or Mo Williams. :roll:

[tpols]

You are right. LeBron never had a teammate as good as Middleton or Holiday prior to joining the Heat, lol.

In before Ilgauskas, Carlos Boozer or Mo Williams. :roll:

Boozer was All NBA and had an incredible statistical playoff run in 2007 ~ 24/13/3 on elite shooting 57% FG or whatever. Big Z was a multiple time All Star before and with LeBron. Jamison was a multiple time All Star. Mo was a an All Star and scored 50 in a game out of prime later in his career. Varejeo was All D. Delonte West deserved to be All D. Larry Hughes was All D. Mike Brown was one of the best defensive coaches in the league. He had plenty of help and lost to teams his squad was favored over the last two years.

[Wardell Curry]

Boozer was All NBA and had an incredible statistical playoff run in 2007 ~ 24/13/3 on elite shooting 57% FG or whatever. Big Z was a multiple time All Star before and with LeBron. Jamison was a multiple time All Star. Mo was a an All Star and scored 50 in a game out of prime later in his career. Varejeo was All D. Delonte West deserved to be All D. Larry Hughes was All D. Mike Brown was one of the best defensive coaches in the league. He had plenty of help and lost to teams his squad was favored over the last two years.

It is absolutely true that he had a good collective team there overall for a couple of years but he never had a truly good second player prior to Miami.

Carlos Boozer was a Kevin Love Minnesota fake/inflated stats kind of guy and LeBron is the only player in history who you would say a Carlos Boozer level player should have been enough, especially considering LBJ only played with 2nd year Boozer for a grand total of one season.

[Airupthere]

It is absolutely true that he had a good collective team there overall for a couple of years but he never had a truly good second player prior to Miami.

Carlos Boozer was a Kevin Love Minnesota fake/inflated stats kind of guy.

This is a efficient post. Shitting 2 cavs teams at the same time.

[Wardell Curry]

Boozer was All NBA and had an incredible statistical playoff run in 2007 ~ 24/13/3 on elite shooting 57% FG or whatever.

Homie, Carlos Boozer was in Utah in 2007, I'm not even going to bother with the rest.

[tpols]

It is absolutely true that he had a good collective team there overall for a couple of years but he never had a truly good second player prior to Miami.

Carlos Boozer was a Kevin Love Minnesota fake/inflated stats kind of guy.

I mean he basically led the Jazz to the WCFs in 2007 by far being their highest scorer in the playoffs averaging 24/13 or whatever. Scrubs don't do that. He was a multiple time All Star and made the All NBA team in 2008. He was a good player ìn the mid 2000s.

[Xiao Yao You]

I mean he basically led the Jazz to the WCFs in 2007 by far being their highest scorer in the playoffs averaging 24/13 or whatever. Scrubs don't do that. He was a multiple time All Star and made the All NBA team in 2008. He was a good player ìn the mid 2000s.

Once again for those that don't remember. The Jazz beat the 8th seed to go to the western conference finals thanks to Nellie taking down his old team in the 1st round. They would have never stood a chance against Dallas. Boozer playing one end of the court wasn't their leader either

[tpols]

Once again for those that don't remember. The Jazz beat the 8th seed to go to the western conference finals thanks to Nellie taking down his old team in the 1st round. They would have never stood a chance against Dallas. Boozer playing one end of the court wasn't their leader either

He had by far the most points on the Jazz in the playoffs on like 57% shooting. And was a top rebounder. Dwill and Okur didnt play defense either so its a moot point. Obviously he was doing something right. Doesn't mean hes Dirk but his talent was legit. Gobert has never had a playoff run that good tbh.

[Axe]

Jerry Krause delivered Jordan a super team, there is no ifs and or but about that.


Jordan wanted Joe Wolf instead of Scottie Pippen and Horace Grant. Imagine if Jordan got his wish.
Look at them. They're still awfully butthurt about a decision of an athlete made around 13 years ago. :lol

[Xiao Yao You]

He had by far the most points on the Jazz in the playoffs on like 57% shooting. And was a top rebounder. Dwill and Okur didnt play defense either so its a moot point. Obviously he was doing something right. Doesn't mean hes Dirk but his talent was legit. Gobert has never had a playoff run that good tbh.

Williams certainly wasn't the defender they hoped he would be when they took him over Paul but he did play some. Boozer played none other than blocking out on rebounds. Okur was ok as long as he could put his body on you. He'd have a hard time in space today. Gobert had two playoff upsets. I'm thinking Boozer had zero? They were certainly favored over the 8 seed. Again I'm not the one bringing up Gobert!

[Dbrog]

Yaaaa not really the same here. This is more in line with KG's Minny situation granted slightly younger.

[warriorfan]

Boozer was ****ing good in Utah. They had a solid team. They had young milsap too. I remember Boozer busted the Warriors ass after they upset Dallas. Wiped the floor with them.

[Xiao Yao You]

Boozer was ****ing good in Utah. They had a solid team. They had young milsap too. I remember Boozer busted the Warriors ass after they upset Dallas. Wiped the floor with them.

as expected

[tontoz]

Look at them. They're still awfully butthurt about a decision of an athlete made around 13 years ago. :lol

Who started this thread again? :confusedshrug:

[tpols]

as expected

But why the hate for him? :lol just because he wasn't an elite defender doesn't discount his offensive production and efficiency and rebounding. He was a full time starter on those Bulls teams that had #1 ranked defenses. He wasn't even terrible on that end, just serviceable. There's no way a lazy dwill or stiff okur was better on D.

[warriorfan]

But why the hate for him? :lol just because he wasn't an elite defender doesn't discount his offensive production and efficiency and rebounding. He was a full time starter on those Bulls tea.s that had #1 ranked defenses. He wasn't even terrible on that end, just serviceable.


Yeah he wasn’t a great defender but not like a huge negative or anything. I don’t know if I haven’t ever heard of someone not saying boozer was a really good player during that stretch. weird take.

[Xiao Yao You]

But why the hate for him? :lol just because he wasn't an elite defender doesn't discount his offensive production and efficiency and rebounding. He was a full time starter on those Bulls tea.s that had #1 ranked defenses. He wasn't even terrible on that end, just serviceable.

My problems with Boozer are that he was always hurt and didn't play any D and AK and eventually Millsap were better at his position. AK was never as good after they got Boozer. Some of that was on him not putting in the work to stay healthy and getting better but some of it was certainly them not having the foresight to leave him at the 4 and instead going back to what Sloan was most comfortable with their poor man's Stockton to Malone.

[RRR3]

I mean he basically led the Jazz to the WCFs in 2007 by far being their highest scorer in the playoffs averaging 24/13 or whatever. Scrubs don't do that. He was a multiple time All Star and made the All NBA team in 2008. He was a good player ìn the mid 2000s.
Yes he was good but LeBron didn't have him :hammerhead: LeBron had Boozer the one year of his career he was clearly not a superstar, his rookie season. Holding that against him is insane, he never got a chance to play with Boozer in his prime.

[warriorfan]

Yes he was good but LeBron didn't have him :hammerhead: LeBron had Boozer the one year of his career he was clearly not a superstar, his rookie season. Holding that against him is insane, he never got a chance to play with Boozer in his prime.

we have already concluded that and are talking about something different now


go away

[Airupthere]

we have already concluded that and are talking about something different now


go away

:oldlol:

[8Ball]

Carlos Boozer :roll:


If that was Jordan's second option he would have retired permanently by 1989.

[Axe]

Carlos Boozer :roll:


If that was Jordan's second option he would have retired permanently by 1989.
Has been to the conference finals 16 years ago, which was the last time the jazz went past the second round of the playoffs. :bowdown:

[8Ball]

Tpols was right about Mo Williams. 2016 NBA Champion with the Cleveland Cavaliers!

[warriorfan]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_9gGorAfqI

[8Ball]

Mo Williams:

https://i.ibb.co/3sSVpVS/Screenshot-2023-09-28-at-8-11-29-PM.png

[j3lademaster]

The decision was cowardly and 2011 was probably the goat superstar meltdown. Period, end of story. No defending that, no KD to GS whataboutism, no excuses.

However, what Lebron did in 2012 was unprecedented and has become underrated over the years. From the 2011 laughing stock to overcoming the most scrutiny in the history of sports to his first ring the very next year. Yes, he tried to collude with the 2nd best player in his conference, but it ended up being such a bad fit he might as well have stayed in Cleveland. Would Miami have lost in both finals if Lebron wasn’t the best player in each series? Absolutely.

[RRR3]

The decision was cowardly and 2011 was probably the goat superstar meltdown. Period, end of story. No defending that, no KD to GS whataboutism, no excuses.

However, what Lebron did in 2012 was unprecedented and has become underrated over the years. From the 2011 laughing stock to overcoming the most scrutiny in the history of sports to his first ring the very next year. Yes, he tried to collude with the 2nd best player in his conference, but it ended up being such a bad fit he might as well have stayed in Cleveland. Would Miami have lost in both finals if Lebron wasn’t the best player in each series? Absolutely.
Also Wade declined after 2011. Precipitously after 2012. Bosh was dealing with injuries in the 2012 playoffs as well.

[j3lademaster]

Also Wade declined after 2011. Precipitously after 2012. Bosh was dealing with injuries in the 2012 playoffs as well.yup. They were a super team in name only. On the floor, Bosh let Roy “the Trashcan” Hibbert look like prime KAJ. We can chalk that up to health or whatever, but regardless that’s what Lebron had to work with and it wasn’t superteam level help.

[Axe]

yup. They were a super team in name only. On the floor, Bosh let Roy “the Trashcan” Hibbert look like prime KAJ. We can chalk that up to health or whatever, but regardless that’s what Lebron had to work with and it wasn’t superteam level help.
Insecure casuals would point out that he still played with former finals mvps tho.

[GimmeThat]

again, not when players are given stock options and essentially nullifies the change in ticket price.

the moment when NBA starts adopting mini series for the regular season like basketball, it destory the volatility of the playoffs

[Jasper]

This is indeed true.


Dirk is genuiney the ony exampe of an ATG that stuck it out on insufficient teams, never making demands, in fact even rejecting offers from other superstars to team up.


I think Jokic woud be simiar.

Dirk was a German kraut .

[Jasper]

So it wasn't even 2 years until Giannis started publicly telling his front office to make moves or else he was gone.


What happened?



There are zero "loyalty" super stars left in this league that don't go out of their way to recruit/join top tier talent.



Looks like leaving their own fate to their GM doesn't always pay dividends. You don't always have a superstar GM like Jerry Kraus to deliver you a super team. Players have to force things.

This is on the organization 100%.
IN the last 50 years Giannis is a once in a life time player.
Even though his comments seemed influenced by what we would call stipulations , he was going to be a lifer in Milwaukee.
Bucks front office wants 1-2 more chips , and their best option was this trade for Lillard.

We learned after Kareem one and done , is not enough.