Does Popovich owe his success to Duncan?

[Lebron23]

Spurs missed the playoffs in the last 4 years. I think they only made the playoffs twice since Duncan retired.

[Axe]

Anybody seen scrotum m8 nowadays?

Edit: oof never mind. He's banned atm.

[Full Court]

Anybody seen scrotum m8 nowadays?

^Ho in distress. :lol

[Axe]

Spurs missed the playoffs in the last 4 years. I think they only made the playoffs twice since Duncan retired.
And none since tony parker retired in 2019. (https://i.ibb.co/g4tnXnv/IMG-20230626-052542.jpg)

[Full Court]

Spurs missed the playoffs in the last 4 years. I think they only made the playoffs twice since Duncan retired.

You need good players for a team to get anywhere, regardless of who the coach is. Frank Vogel's Lakers would never have made the playoffs without AD.

[Axe]

The spurs have been on a downfall since kawhi left them. (https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTgJlaYykOeriV0g-CmztDbyLIB7OzQHuDISg&usqp=CAU)

[Airupthere]

But if you put Popovich in the 98 Utah Jazz, how many rings?

[rawimpact]

Does Bill owe his success to Tom?

[SouBeachTalents]

But if you put Popovich in the 98 Utah Jazz, how many rings?
The fvck do the ‘98 Jazz have to do with anything?

[Lebron23]

But if you put Popovich in the 98 Utah Jazz, how many rings?

Nobody can stop Stockton and hornacek from choking

[Baller234]

Why does all the credit have to go to one person? A great player and a great coach won a bunch of championships. Neither of them would have been AS successful without the other.

In other news, water is wet.

[ShawkFactory]

Why does all the credit have to go to one person? A great player and a great coach won a bunch of championships. Neither of them would have been AS successful without the other.

In other news, water is wet.

Um...yes. It's really not that difficult to understand lol

That's why I always get weirded out about the Brady/Belichick thing. Yes having a dominant quarterback, like having a dominant player in basketball, is going to be of utmost importance if a coach wants to win multiple championships. But that doesn't mean that the other side doesn't benefit as well.

[Wardell Curry]

Um...yes. It's really not that difficult to understand lol

That's why I always get weirded out about the Brady/Belichick thing. Yes having a dominant quarterback, like having a dominant player in basketball, is going to be of utmost importance if a coach wants to win multiple championships. But that doesn't mean that the other side doesn't benefit as well.

Teams/organizations win championships, not individual players.

Obviously the players matter the most, but who assembles the players? Who coaches them? It all matters.

And saying Pop and Beli haven't won since Duncan and Brady left is stupid. Brady went to the most stacked team in the league that needed a competent QB. Did he magically get old in one season then thereafter?

Pop and Beli are also old and of course that is going to impact their ability to do their job even if their job is just psychological/mental. The Patriots used to have the best defense in the league. Now they are trash. Was that Brady too?

Brady was very most likely and Duncan was easily the most important piece on these be that with players or coaches respective teams but they didn't do it alone because nobody does in a team sport.

[WhiteKyrie]

And Duncan, Ginobili, Parker and then Kawhi’s ascension.

Gregg Popovich is probably the most overrated professional basketball coach I’ve ever seen.

Much like Duncan, and the Spurs organization themselves in general. Sustained really goodness isn’t greatness. It’s not a dynasty.

He’s not better than Pat Riley, Phil Jackson, and Eric Spoelstra. His primary era contemporaries.

[ShawkFactory]

And Duncan, Ginobili, Parker and then Kawhi’s ascension.

Gregg Popovich is probably the most overrated professional basketball coach I’ve ever seen.

Much like Duncan, and the Spurs organization themselves in general. Sustained really goodness isn’t greatness. It’s not a dynasty.

He’s not better than Pat Riley, Phil Jackson, and Eric Spoelstra. His primary era contemporaries.

Even if we throw out the 14 championships, winning 4 in 9 years and being literally a couple plays away from potentially having 6 in that span is not what "goodness" is.

You have a very odd definition of the word if that's what that means to you. Sustained goodness would be like the Stockton/Malone Jazz. And to a lesser extent the Paul George Pacers.

[tpols]

And Duncan, Ginobili, Parker and then Kawhi’s ascension.

Gregg Popovich is probably the most overrated professional basketball coach I’ve ever seen.

Much like Duncan, and the Spurs organization themselves in general. Sustained really goodness isn’t greatness. It’s not a dynasty.

He’s not better than Pat Riley, Phil Jackson, and Eric Spoelstra. His primary era contemporaries.

Yea...

Phil Jackson coached the GOAT MJ, MDE Shaq, peak and prime Kobe, Pippen, Pau, Rodman, etc.

Pat Riley coached prime Magic, Kareem, Wade, Ewing, Zo, and then had peak Lebron as the GM.

:roll:

That shit is hilarious. Pop actually coached less talent than all those guys. HUGE double standard coach.

[tpols]

Does Bill owe his success to Tom?

Other way around. Belichick was coaching the patriots to the championship when Brady was putting up scrub playoff numbers. He orchestrated GOAT defenses that won championships on both the 90s Giants and early 00s Pats.

[WhiteKyrie]

Yea...

Phil Jackson coached the GOAT MJ, MDE Shaq, peak and prime Kobe, Pippen, Pau, Rodman, etc.

Pat Riley coached prime Magic, Kareem, Wade, Ewing, Zo, and then had peak Lebron as the GM.

:roll:

That shit is hilarious. Pop actually coached less talent than all those guys. HUGE double standard coach.
I don’t disagree. And excluding Phil. Who coached the goat then the most dme and 2nd best sg ever (Junior mints GOAT) … Riley and Spo both did more with less. You need to have talent to win irregardless, but dude never even went back to back with those teams

[Xiao Yao You]

Even if we throw out the 14 championships, winning 4 in 9 years and being literally a couple plays away from potentially having 6 in that span is not what "goodness" is.

You have a very odd definition of the word if that's what that means to you. Sustained goodness would be like the Stockton/Malone Jazz. And to a lesser extent the Paul George Pacers.

Sustained goodness like Sloan going from 1st to 3rd in his division with two all time greats and still having a job? Did it again with Deron and the legendary Carlos Boozer! Always thought Pop was overrated too but I've come to appreciate him more recently

[tpols]

I don’t disagree. And excluding Phil. Who coached the goat then the most dme and 2nd best sg ever (Junior mints GOAT) … Riley and Spo both did more with less. You need to have talent to win irregardless, but dude never even went back to back with those teams

Riley and Spo together won both their rings with a ridiculously cowardly stacked Big 3 Heat team.

And got historically destroyed by the 2014 pop coached spurs who had no stars at the time. A super old big 3 plus baby kawhi averaging 12 ppg on the year.

[ShawkFactory]

I don’t disagree. And excluding Phil. Who coached the goat then the most dme and 2nd best sg ever (Junior mints GOAT) … Riley and Spo both did more with less. You need to have talent to win irregardless, but dude never even went back to back with those teams

The back to back thing is such a contextless thing that doesn't matter at all. If Fisher doesn't make that shot in 04 then who knows. Of course it would have been a tough series against Detroit but that would have been winnable for them. Same thing in 06 if Manu doesn't stupidly foul Dirk at the end of game 7 on that and one. They match up way better with the Heat than Dallas did, and I think win that series rather easily.

They were the best team in the league both of those years though and were in position to win again. So from 03-07 they have 3 titles and were the best team the two years they didn't win. I'm sorry but back-to-back is arbitrary. That's a dynasty.

[rmt]

Spurs were the model organization for many years especially considering the confines of staying below the luxury tax and being a small market team. It takes a whole organization to have sustained excellence for so long, and RC Buford's international scouting was top-notch.

Pop's biggest strength is that he gets the most out of his players - great for development of young talent and reaching their potential - it is NOT Xs and Os (I'm still mad at Duncan not being on the floor in Finals '13 game 6).

I'm not sure that Spurs would have won vs DET in '04. Duncan has said that in retrospect the hardest Finals was the 7 game series vs DET. I dunno - they didn't have McDyess in '04 but Manu also hadn't come into his own yet. 2006 - an unnecessary, unforced error from Manu - I'm pretty sure they would have beaten the Heat - they matched up very well against them.

But yes, those 5 rings don't happen without Duncan.

[SouBeachTalents]

Other way around. Belichick was coaching the patriots to the championship when Brady was putting up scrub playoff numbers. He orchestrated GOAT defenses that won championships on both the 90s Giants and early 00s Pats.
Belichick’s track record without Brady as a head coach is legitimately embarrassing. And he has nearly a decades worth of a sample size at this point.

He started his tenure in New England 5-11 with a pro bowl QB in Bledsoe, then was 0-2 the following year when Bledsoe got hurt and Brady became the starter. While literally the first year Brady leaves New England, he wins the Super Bowl :lol While the Pats have been mediocre at best since he’s left, and are having a doozy of a season so far.

[tpols]

Belichick’s track record without Brady as a head coach is legitimately embarrassing. And he has nearly a decades worth of a sample size at this point.

He started his tenure in New England 5-11 with a pro bowl QB in Bledsoe, then was 0-2 the following year when Bledsoe got hurt and Brady became the starter. While literally the first year Brady leaves New England, he wins the Super Bowl :lol While the Pats have been mediocre at best since he’s left, and are having a doozy of a season so far.

Yup... and go look up Bradys playoff productions when the patriots 1st won the super bowl. They were scrub level. Belichicks defense won them that championship.

Just like he did on the 90s giants who also won with their GOAT defense and he was the defensive coordinator. Jeff Hostetler and Phil Simms were the starting QBs. There's 0 chance you or I have ever heard of Jeff Hostetler.

[ShawkFactory]

Belichick’s track record without Brady as a head coach is legitimately embarrassing. And he has nearly a decades worth of a sample size at this point.

He started his tenure in New England 5-11 with a pro bowl QB in Bledsoe, then was 0-2 the following year when Bledsoe got hurt and Brady became the starter. While literally the first year Brady leaves New England, he wins the Super Bowl :lol While the Pats have been mediocre at best since he’s left, and are having a doozy of a season so far.

Lol no. They've had a bad roster since Brady left but they've still gone to the playoffs once and .500 basically the other years. Mac Jones is legit bad but they still made the playoffs in 2021.

This year is a different story. He's done a bad job with his internal hires but they will still be feisty, if not particularly good due to bad QB play and bottom-end talent overall.

[tpols]

Lol no. They've had a bad roster since Brady left but they've still gone to the playoffs once and .500 basically the other years. Mac Jones is legit bad but they still made the playoffs in 2021.

This year is a different story. He's done a bad job with his internal hires but they will still be feisty, if not particularly good due to bad QB play and bottom-end talent overall.

Yup... belichick basically led trash to the playoffs once Brady left. Their defense after Brady left was still nasty and thats all they had.

Meanwhile Tom joined a team in the Bucs who had a top ranked defense and a super stacked offense full of pro bowl talent ~ Evans, Godwin, Brown, Gronk, Fournette etc. I mean... cmon lol

[ILLsmak]

And Duncan, Ginobili, Parker and then Kawhi’s ascension.

Gregg Popovich is probably the most overrated professional basketball coach I’ve ever seen.

Much like Duncan, and the Spurs organization themselves in general. Sustained really goodness isn’t greatness. It’s not a dynasty.

He’s not better than Pat Riley, Phil Jackson, and Eric Spoelstra. His primary era contemporaries.

I agree with this on many levels, tbh. He's a hard ass. He's a meme because he can stonewall reporters, he speaks on social justice, but like people say he's better than Phil, but Phil could handle Rodman, he couldn't. It's about being able to handle what pieces you have and I don't think anyone did that better than Phil. Pat was good at getting pieces. Spo has some good strategy. They are all diff. But yea Pop is def overrated in that people believe he is far and away the best. He's an all time great, for sure. He doesn't owe his success, but there are a lot of great coaches who never won or won a bit... I mean Sloan was a great coach. Daly was a great coach. Red. A great coach kinda is larger than life. I feel like some of Pops' larger than life persona is hype. But I'll give him credit for having a sense of humor, etc.

-Smak

[dankok8]

Of course he does. It doesn't matter how great of a coach you are. If you don't get great players to coach, you'll never win and become acclaimed.

[SouBeachTalents]

Lol no. They've had a bad roster since Brady left but they've still gone to the playoffs once and .500 basically the other years. Mac Jones is legit bad but they still made the playoffs in 2021.

This year is a different story. He's done a bad job with his internal hires but they will still be feisty, if not particularly good due to bad QB play and bottom-end talent overall.
You think I'm just talking about the past 4 years? No, the guy had 6 seasons as head coach before Brady, and they were just as unimpressive as the ones after Brady have been. Here's his track record without Brady, including games Brady missed, over a decade plus sample size.

80-91
1 playoff win
7 losing seasons in 10 years, well on his way to 8 in 11 years

That is fvcking garbage :lol I'm not asking him to win Super Bowls or make deep playoff runs, but the guy can't even give you a winning season 1/3rd of the time?

Of course nobody is going to care because all they'll see is 6 rings, but his head coaching tenure without Brady is legitimately bad, and a decade plus is WAY too many games to just brush aside as not being significant.

[rmt]

I agree with this on many levels, tbh. He's a hard ass. He's a meme because he can stonewall reporters, he speaks on social justice, but like people say he's better than Phil, but Phil could handle Rodman, he couldn't. It's about being able to handle what pieces you have and I don't think anyone did that better than Phil. Pat was good at getting pieces. Spo has some good strategy. They are all diff. But yea Pop is def overrated in that people believe he is far and away the best. He's an all time great, for sure. He doesn't owe his success, but there are a lot of great coaches who never won or won a bit... I mean Sloan was a great coach. Daly was a great coach. Red. A great coach kinda is larger than life. I feel like some of Pops' larger than life persona is hype. But I'll give him credit for having a sense of humor, etc.

-Smak

Pop has great interpersonal/acting skills - look at that HOF speech - as "natural" a speaker/people person as ever. But undeserving with Xs and Os (among GOAT coaches) - I still blame him for the 2013 Finals game 6 loss and making '05 Finals much harder than it should have been (IMHO, should have put Bowen on Chauncey and have Parker chase Rip around screens) - he wasted Bowen on Rip.

[ILLsmak]

Pop has great interpersonal/acting skills - look at that HOF speech - as "natural" a speaker/people person as ever. But undeserving with Xs and Os (among GOAT coaches) - I still blame him for the 2013 Finals game 6 loss and making '05 Finals much harder than it should have been (IMHO, should have put Bowen on Chauncey and have Parker chase Rip around screens) - he wasted Bowen on Rip.

Yea I think he messed up taking Duncan out at least, but they have big teams. The head coach is the final decision maker (probably?) for x-o stuff, but his guys are the ones who should be getting it together and helping him make decisions. I like Phil and he's obviously not an x-o guy, either. The coach in NBA is about managing personalities and putting people in a position to succeed. If he indeed thought it was smart to take out TD on that final play, that was out-thinking himself, but a coach is like the team dad in the NBA. I guess I just feel like Pop isn't the greatest at that. But yeah he has charisma. I don't think he can handle anyone. Phil could get in your head and make the best out of you. Pop would trade you away for someone who fit better. Being a winner + not having anyone who he couldn't coach... like Phil says Kobe was uncoachable but Phil is on such 4D stuff he might have said that to stroke Kobe's ego / make him think more.

I think people get to shine adversity, and I dunno how well Pop handles adversity IN THE MOMENT, but I do think he does well at helping his guys grow after. Again, tho, his hand picked guys, not just talented players. There are dudes who he just couldn't handle.

-Smak

[Smook A.]

Does Bill owe his success to Tom?

Yes. Bill's still a great coach but Brady's greatness elevated him into a territory he would've never been in. Really makes you think how many great coaches never got to shine because they were stuck in a bad situation.

[8Ball]

Pop = Belichick

Exposed when doesn't have all time super star.

[Street Hunger]

Impossible to know the answer total about to ask but I wonder how great these Spurs legends would have been under a different coach.

Like Tony Parker and Manu ginobili were drafted very low and obviously a lot of NBA people did not think they were going to be as good as they turned out to be. So how much credit does popovich deserve for how good they were?