First impressions of Mavs team

[90sgoat]

What do you think, do Mavs have what it takes to get to the playoffs and go deep?

I like Grant Williams, quality signing, Lively looks decent.

Don't like Kyrie, seems cooked.

[tontoz]

Too early to say but Lively certainly looked good. I would think that the Grant and Seth signings will turn out well. Just have to wait and see how it plays out.

[Axe]

What do you think, do Mavs have what it takes to get to the playoffs and go deep?

I like Grant Williams, quality signing, Lively looks decent.

Don't like Kyrie, seems cooked.
As long as this guy still flops for the Cs, he should be good.

[fourkicks44]

Lively looks like the Rookie of the Year so far.

[Xiao Yao You]

Lively looks like the Rookie of the Year so far.

1 game? 2? :lol

[tontoz]

As long as this guy still flops for the Cs, he should be good.


You and your boyfriend really need to get a room.

[Axe]

Lol please be funny, uncle.

[fourkicks44]

1 game? 2? :lol

Yeah 1 game but he has been the most impressive. It seems if the Mavs are going to make a deep run this season he is going to have to play a big role.

[Phoenix]

Best case scenario is probably a 7th/8th seed.

[Xiao Yao You]

Yeah 1 game but he has been the most impressive. It seems if the Mavs are going to make a deep run this season he is going to have to play a big role.

let's see them get in the play-in at least first before we talk about deep runs

[fourkicks44]

let's see them get in the play-in at least first before we talk about deep runs

Yeah but IF they are going to make a deep run he is going to have to perform.

Anyway let's see how he goes tonight against Claxton and dipshit.

[FultzNationRISE]

Yeah 1 game but he has been the most impressive. It seems if the Mavs are going to make a deep run this season he is going to have to play a big role.


The Mavs arent going to make a deep run this year.

[Im Still Ballin]

If things go pear-shaped in LA, Dallas should keep the eyes peeled for a Kyrie trade for Reaves, Rui, etc. You never know...

[FultzNationRISE]

Yeah but IF they are going to make a deep run he is going to have to perform.

Anyway let's see how he goes tonight against Claxton and dipshit.


Claxtons out with a ankle sprain

[SATAN]

Mediocre. Not contenders. Waiting for the Kyrie shenanigans to begin.

[Xiao Yao You]

Mediocre. Not contenders. Waiting for the Kyrie shenanigans to begin.

just a matter of time

[fourkicks44]

Give it a month and Kyrie will be on the front line fighting for Hamas.

[SATAN]

Give it a month and Kyrie will be on the front line fighting for Hamas.

:lol

[Xiao Yao You]

Give it a month and Kyrie will be on the front line fighting for Hamas.

might not find his way there using the flat earth map

[FultzNationRISE]

might not find his way there using the flat earth map


The scent of fresh sage water will guide his path.

[90sgoat]

The Mavs arent going to make a deep run this year.

They can if they make some good trades.

THJ has to go. Josh Green is great, but lets be real, not irreplaceable.

I'm torn on Kyrie, because he really is a weirdo and doesn't do much, but he does play the D-Wade role to Luka's Lebron very well. Luka and Kyria will win a lot of close games just from hitting crazy shots.

If we could find a way to trade THJ for a strong rebounder, doesn't even have to start, just someone that can gobble up rebounds in spurts.

Right now the team looks too disjointed, hard to see what they're about. I think Grant Williams is going to be a good glue guy, plays hard, good effort. Derrick Jones Jr? Who?

Perhaps they could Dorian-Finny Smith back somehow.

[90sgoat]

I'm watching Mavs vs Brooklyn highlights and Luka makes some insane shots to win the game, but holy crap he looks atrocious on defense.

I think probably 2/3 of the entire Brooklyn highlights are from Luka being cooked over and over on defense.

This is game 2 and the guy still comes into the season refusing to play defense. What an absolutely pathetic shitshow. He's James Harden if Harden was actually a star.

[Xiao Yao You]

top 3-5 player. Who needs D!

[90sgoat]

top 3-5 player. Who needs D!

That's what she said.

Seriously though, he better be coasting, because it has to be embarassing to get cooked 20 times a game. People notice.

I honestly think Luka is keeping games close on purpose to play hero ball in the 4th.

[Manny98]

Lively looking like a great pickup

Doncic and Kyrie are the most deadly offensive duo in the league

Got guys like DJJ and Williams who can defend on the perimeter

They can beat anyone in the west

[Xiao Yao You]

Lively looking like a great pickup

Doncic and Kyrie are the most deadly offensive duo in the league

Got guys like DJJ and Williams who can defend on the perimeter

They can beat anyone in the west

shit maybe they can even make the play-in this year! :roll:

[FultzNationRISE]

They can if they make some good trades.

THJ has to go. Josh Green is great, but lets be real, not irreplaceable.

I'm torn on Kyrie, because he really is a weirdo and doesn't do much, but he does play the D-Wade role to Luka's Lebron very well. Luka and Kyria will win a lot of close games just from hitting crazy shots.

If we could find a way to trade THJ for a strong rebounder, doesn't even have to start, just someone that can gobble up rebounds in spurts.

Right now the team looks too disjointed, hard to see what they're about. I think Grant Williams is going to be a good glue guy, plays hard, good effort. Derrick Jones Jr? Who?

Perhaps they could Dorian-Finny Smith back somehow.


Not on defense.

And Doncic is playing good team defense but he aint prime Lebron. So the defensive gap between the pairs overall is pretty significant.

The biggest problem with Kyrie is you cant count on him to care. If he doesnt feel ‘celebrated’ enough he might abruptly stop trying, right when they need him most.

Even if he is engaged, you dont need that kind of player in the lineup with Doncic. The Mavs were at their best when Brunson was playing as a hustle guy and occasional tempo pusher next to Luka, and Dinwiddie came off the bench. When Widdie moved into the lineup it was just him and Luka taking turns as the ball handler which is pointless. And thats what theyre doing now.

Kyrie would be ideal off the bench but theres no way he’d accept it and play hard. You just dont need the kind of player alongside Doncic. The Mavs thought the problem was Widdie wasnt a big ENOUGH second scorer. The issue actually was he was already too much of one and it just doesnt fit with Luka. You surround him with the best possible role players and you have a chance.

Luka has a narrower margin of guys he fits with, but he can get more out if them than most. The turn-taking with Kyrie just isnt gonna cut it against the top west teams in the playoffs.

[FultzNationRISE]

Also I dont think THJ is a problem. He shoots ok and plays hard, there are obviously better players at the position but not anyone theyre gonna be able to get. I think they can win with him.

I think they just need a little more depth at forward, if they could get Finney Smith back or a Kelly Olynyk, theyd be in good shape.

Problem is Kyrie is only gonna be on a tiny list of team’s who will trade for him. The Nets obviously aint one, and I dont think Utah is either :lol

[Xiao Yao You]

Also I dont think THJ is a problem. He shoots ok and plays hard, there are obviously better players at the position but not anyone theyre gonna be able to get. I think they can win with him.

I think they just need a little more depth at forward, if they could get Finney Smith back or a Kelly Olynyk, theyd be in good shape.

Problem is Kyrie is only gonna be on a tiny list of team’s who will trade for him. The Nets obviously aint one, and I dont think Utah is either :lol

I'm sure Olynyk is available. Ainge likes him but like 1sts even more!

[NBAGOAT]

I'm watching Mavs vs Brooklyn highlights and Luka makes some insane shots to win the game, but holy crap he looks atrocious on defense.

I think probably 2/3 of the entire Brooklyn highlights are from Luka being cooked over and over on defense.

This is game 2 and the guy still comes into the season refusing to play defense. What an absolutely pathetic shitshow. He's James Harden if Harden was actually a star.

We watching the same game? Luka played some of the best defense of his career. Kyrie will score efficiently im not worried about 2 games. Lively on paper should be that rebounder and grant Williams is locked in as starter so you just need an upgrade over green. Someone like Jerami grant is fine

[Carbine]

My thoughts on this Mavs team is they haven't learned a damn thing. You can't win with this heavy heavy dribble dribble iso style of play where the entire offensive universe revolves around 1 guy.

His dribble time is insane. It has been proven to have a cap on team success.

So this is going to be another great individual Luka season, but at the end of the day it won't win.

He's so far down this path of perfecting his craft of being the entire universe of the offense with his on ball dominant style of play that I doubt it ever changes. Whos going to have the cache as a coach to come in and change it for the better? It would also require Luka to start perfecting off ball play and that's not exactly easy to do. Harden could never do it effectively once he played this exact style of basketball either.

[FultzNationRISE]

My thoughts on this Mavs team is they haven't learned a damn thing. You can't win with this heavy heavy dribble dribble iso style of play where the entire offensive universe revolves around 1 guy.

His dribble time is insane. It has been proven to have a cap on team success.

So this is going to be another great individual Luka season, but at the end of the day it won't win.

He's so far down this path of perfecting his craft of being the entire universe of the offense with his on ball dominant style of play that I doubt it ever changes. Whos going to have the cache as a coach to come in and change it for the better? It would also require Luka to start perfecting off ball play and that's not exactly easy to do. Harden could never do it effectively once he played this exact style of basketball either.

Heavier guys like Luka, Lebron, later career Harden just dont make practical offball players, for purely physical reasons. Guys like Steph and Reggie Miller are the kings of off ball play because it's a lot easier to do the lighter you are. It's not anything Luka could perfect, he simply would not be able to shake NBA defenders by running around, he would not be agile enough.

[Xiao Yao You]

Heavier guys like Luka, Lebron, later career Harden just dont make practical offball players, for purely physical reasons. Guys like Steph and Reggie Miller are the kings of off ball play because it's a lot easier to do the lighter you are. It's not anything Luka could perfect, he simply would not be able to shake NBA defenders by running around, he would not be agile enough.

plus he'd have to get in shape

[90sgoat]

Heavier guys like Luka, Lebron, later career Harden just dont make practical offball players, for purely physical reasons. Guys like Steph and Reggie Miller are the kings of off ball play because it's a lot easier to do the lighter you are. It's not anything Luka could perfect, he simply would not be able to shake NBA defenders by running around, he would not be agile enough.

He doesn't have to play off ball, he just has to play a lot more in the post, which would open up the floor for Kyrie for kickouts.

[90sgoat]

plus he'd have to get in shape

He's in better shape this season and actually runs fastbreaks now.

Still doesn't play defense, so his increased cardio went to fastbreaks instead of defense.

[Carbine]

Heavier guys like Luka, Lebron, later career Harden just dont make practical offball players, for purely physical reasons. Guys like Steph and Reggie Miller are the kings of off ball play because it's a lot easier to do the lighter you are. It's not anything Luka could perfect, he simply would not be able to shake NBA defenders by running around, he would not be agile enough.

Larry Bird played off ball via screens, cuts, etc extremely well and he wasn't agile like that. When you're as skilled as Luka is, you should find a way to make it work - just like Larry did.

[BarberSchool]

Lively lookin like he’s picked up alot of what he needed to from Powell/Maxi very quickly. Lookin like Luka’s best lob threat he’s ever played with so far. And his length and mobility will make him a very valuable rim protector and help defender. Looks to WANT to be a great rebounder both offensive and defensive, and that will come with more time in the weight room.

Kyrie looks slow out of the gate, but he will come around in time for the trade deadline, when Dallas can maybe rape the Lakers & maybe even some others on that deal.

Luka still not in good shape, moving slow, being sluggish on D, but his D is slightly better, and his offense is already incredible and only getting better and better. Son just had 49points with 4 clutch 3’s and the game winner, but more importantly, ZERO TURNOVERS in the game. Zero turnivers in such a high usage game, against several all-NBA defenders, is truly insane.

Kidd looks to have a better handle on this squad already than last years squad.

But downside is, Dallas still can’t fkk with a healthy Nuggets or Suns squad.

[BarberSchool]

Grant Williams I think will prove to be a great acquisition. But no signs yet of his exact fit on this squad. Obviously he can be a versatile 3&D guy, but he has more than just that to offer.

Tim still looks like he can contribute alot of scoring, spacing, and fast break action.

Maxi still blocking some shots, playing good D, hoping he can have his best shooting season yet.

[Xiao Yao You]

Lively lookin like he’s picked up alot of what he needed to from Powell/Maxi very quickly. Lookin like Luka’s best lob threat he’s ever played with so far. And his length and mobility will make him a very valuable rim protector and help defender. Looks to WANT to be a great rebounder both offensive and defensive, and that will come with more time in the weight room.

Kyrie looks slow out of the gate, but he will come around in time for the trade deadline, when Dallas can maybe rape the Lakers & maybe even some others on that deal.

Luka still not in good shape, moving slow, being sluggish on D, but his D is slightly better, and his offense is already incredible and only getting better and better. Son just had 49points with 4 clutch 3’s and the game winner, but more importantly, ZERO TURNOVERS in the game. Zero turnivers in such a high usage game, against several all-NBA defenders, is truly insane.

Kidd looks to have a better handle on this squad already than last years squad.

But downside is, Dallas still can’t fkk with a healthy Nuggets or Suns squad.

Wouldn't worry about the Nuggets or Suns when they didn't even make the play-in last year

[90sgoat]

I also think Mavs should try to fleece Lakers.

Rui and Reaves.

Reaves can basically fill in the same role as Kyrie, just better and younger.

[Xiao Yao You]

I also think Mavs should try to fleece Lakers.

Rui and Reaves.

Reaves can basically fill in the same role as Kyrie, just better and younger.

good luck raping anyone with cancer

[Phoenix]

He doesn't have to play off ball, he just has to play a lot more in the post, which would open up the floor for Kyrie for kickouts.

The Luka/Kyrie pairing will never be ideal. For one, while Kyrie is a great shooter having him stand around waiting for Luka handoffs reduces his 'get mine' iso game. Even though he's a lesser player in isolation, I feel the Mavs would be better if they had retained Brunson instead of acquiring Kyrie. Brunson isn't a classic distributor either ( how many elite PGs are nowadays), but he could defer to Luka and effortlessly kick it up when Luka was off the floor, while still being productive. Kyrie isn't doing much unless he has the ball in his hands, and is generally far too mercurial since leaving the Cavs.

The Mavs would be much better if Brunson, DFS and Dimwiddie were still on the team.

[Phoenix]

Larry Bird played off ball via screens, cuts, etc extremely well and he wasn't agile like that. When you're as skilled as Luka is, you should find a way to make it work - just like Larry did.

Young Bird was more agile than Luka is, with a better motor. It's a catch-22, Luka's size/bulk allows him to be more effective in the post or driving as a below the rim finisher.

[SATAN]

Reaves can basically fill in the same role as Kyrie, just better and younger.

The Reaves hype is one of the most ridiculous things I've seen in basketball. :oldlol:

[Xiao Yao You]

The Reaves hype is one of the most ridiculous things I've seen in basketball. :oldlol:

Reaves > Cancer

[Axe]

The Reaves hype is one of the most ridiculous things I've seen in basketball. :oldlol:
Anyone on lebron's team can be basically hyped by clueless casuals. :oldlol:

[BarberSchool]

I also think Mavs should try to fleece Lakers.

Rui and Reaves.

Reaves can basically fill in the same role as Kyrie, just better and younger.Rui certainly part of the deal. Reaves not as much, Reaves is def better than he looks, but not as good as his hype. Other lakers youth has a higher value on Mavericks.

[FultzNationRISE]

The Reaves hype is one of the most ridiculous things I've seen in basketball. :oldlol:

The hype is fair if it’s based more on expectation than current level.

He’s good at weaving thru the lane but often comes up well short on his finishes. He needs more upper body strength. If he can add that hes got the size, smarts, handle, shooting. Just needs to finish better in traffic and he MIGHT be worthy of playing with LeKing.


As far as Rui, he played way above his head in the playoffs versus the entire rest of his underwhelming career. Need to find out who the real Rui is first.

[90sgoat]

I meant Reaves is a better fit, not better than Kyrie.

Reaves would flourish with Luka taking so much attention.

[Doomsday Dallas]

I feel good about the Mavs this year...

Definitely not a Championship Contender... but could maybe finish as a top 4 team in the West.

I don't think they will make much noise in the playoffs... but they should have a solid regular season.

[Doomsday Dallas]

and btw... We owe 0-3 Memphis (who we play on Monday Night) an ass kicking...

We lost three games to Memphis in March 2023 last season.

[BarberSchool]

and btw... We owe 0-3 Memphis (who we play on Monday Night) an ass kicking...

We lost three games to Memphis in March 2023 last season.Everyone knows how important Adams is to a team’s rebounding and interior defense … and second chance points, fast break points due to great outlet passing ….

…. but how long will it take the average Memphis fans to realize just how important Adams was to facilitate Morant’s half court offense ?

Imagine Morant as a very light, very fast running back, whose lead blocking/offensive line gets hurt ….. Nobody set those “paint screens / lane clearouts” better then Adams did, on opposing team shotblockers.

So… shouldn’t be hard to beat them Monday night ;)

[Xiao Yao You]

Everyone knows how important Adams is to a team’s rebounding and interior defense … and second chance points, fast break points due to great outlet passing ….

…. but how long will it take the average Memphis fans to realize just how important Adams was to facilitate Morant’s half court offense ?

Imagine Morant as a very light, very fast running back, whose lead blocking/offensive line gets hurt ….. Nobody set those “paint screens / lane clearouts” better then Adams did, on opposing team shotblockers.

So… shouldn’t be hard to beat them Monday night ;)

Morant was great before Adams was on the team

[FultzNationRISE]

An eventual trade centered around Kyrie and Reaves does end up making a lot of sense IMO.

Irving brings pure scoring and nothing else. On most teams his lack of leadership and defense diminishes his value, but it’s less of an issue for the Lakers. They dont need Kyrie to lead, they have LePoleon. And theyre not gonna get worse on defense giving D’Lo/Vincent’s minutes to Irving and playing another wing in Reaves place. With Lebron’s role as a relentless scoring dynamo beginning to slow with age, Irving is ideal for picking up the slack.

With the Mavs, it’s the opposite. Luka is entering his prime, and Reaves would fit better in the ‘Pippen’ role doing a little bit of everything. And while Reaves will continue improving, he’s probably not gonna be a guy who fills the ‘clear number 1’ role when Lebron is gone. And frankly neither is AD. I think for the Lakers it’s worth it to give up Reaves to to go all-in now, since the biggest thing theyre missing is what Kyrie brings, consistent scoring. If he can give them a steady 22-25 a night theyre gonna be in real good shape. Meanwhile Luka and Reaves are basically the same age, so thatd be a great partnership going forward

[90sgoat]

An eventual trade centered around Kyrie and Reaves does end up making a lot of sense IMO.

Irving brings pure scoring and nothing else. On most teams his lack of leadership and defense diminishes his value, but it’s less of an issue for the Lakers. They dont need Kyrie to lead, they have LePoleon. And theyre not gonna get worse on defense giving D’Lo/Vincent’s minutes to Irving and playing another wing in Reaves place. With Lebron’s role as a relentless scoring dynamo beginning to slow with age, Irving is ideal for picking up the slack.

With the Mavs, it’s the opposite. Luka is entering his prime, and Reaves would fit better in the ‘Pippen’ role doing a little bit of everything. And while Reaves will continue improving, he’s probably not gonna be a guy who fills the ‘clear number 1’ role when Lebron is gone. And frankly neither is AD. I think for the Lakers it’s worth it to give up Reaves to to go all-in now, since the biggest thing theyre missing is what Kyrie brings, consistent scoring. If he can give them a steady 22-25 a night theyre gonna be in real good shape. Meanwhile Luka and Reaves are basically the same age, so thatd be a great partnership going forward

If only real life was this easy, but alas, Mark Cuban is an idiot.

[Carbine]

Reaves is not a Pippen. Reaves can't defend other teams best perimeter player or provide the ATG level of help defense a Pippen like player gives.

Reaves will NEVER be a #2 on a title team.

[Xiao Yao You]

If only real life was this easy, but alas, Mark Cuban is an idiot.

he's an idiot for getting Kyrie in the first place as is anyone else that gets him

[90sgoat]

he's an idiot for getting Kyrie in the first place as is anyone else that gets him

I don't think gambling on Kyrie is a problem, but it was definitely the wrong move last year. That team needed rebounding and defense, not a Brunson replacement.

[Xiao Yao You]

I don't think gambling on Kyrie is a problem, but it was definitely the wrong move last year. That team needed rebounding and defense, not a Brunson replacement.

Tell the Celtics and Nets that. A lot of money been paid to the cancer

[FultzNationRISE]

Reaves is not a Pippen. Reaves can't defend other teams best perimeter player or provide the ATG level of help defense a Pippen like player gives.

Reaves will NEVER be a #2 on a title team.


I didnt say he'd be on Pippen's LEVEL, I said he could play that type of role where he does a little bit of everything, which complements Doncic's style better than Irving. He's certainly a better defensive player than Ree is. And with G-Wil, Kleber, and Lively the Mavs can be a decent defensive team.

[90sgoat]

Tell the Celtics and Nets that. A lot of money been paid to the cancer

We'll see.

Same could be said for Rodman back in the day.

It's all about the right fit.

[Xiao Yao You]

We'll see.

Same could be said for Rodman back in the day.

It's all about the right fit.

which just adds to MJ and Phil's greatness. Rodman was great his first year with the Bulls but was a shit show the last two. Didn't matter. 40 year old Lebron and Flat Earth aren't Prime MJ and Rodman

[90sgoat]

which just adds to MJ and Phil's greatness. Rodman was great his first year with the Bulls but was a shit show the last two. Didn't matter. 40 year old Lebron and Flat Earth aren't Prime MJ and Rodman

Lebron did make Kyrie into a champion.

I'll give him that.

Luka seems to get along well with Mavs. I think Mavs are a good spot for Kyrie in terms of culture. Europeans probably find it easier to deal with someone like Kyrie.

[Xiao Yao You]

Lebron did make Kyrie into a champion.

I'll give him that.

Luka seems to get along well with Mavs. I think Mavs are a good spot for Kyrie in terms of culture. Europeans probably find it easier to deal with someone like Kyrie.

young Lebron and pre-cancer. Means little today

[tpols]

An eventual trade centered around Kyrie and Reaves does end up making a lot of sense IMO.

Irving brings pure scoring and nothing else. On most teams his lack of leadership and defense diminishes his value, but it’s less of an issue for the Lakers. They dont need Kyrie to lead, they have LePoleon. And theyre not gonna get worse on defense giving D’Lo/Vincent’s minutes to Irving and playing another wing in Reaves place. With Lebron’s role as a relentless scoring dynamo beginning to slow with age, Irving is ideal for picking up the slack.

With the Mavs, it’s the opposite. Luka is entering his prime, and Reaves would fit better in the ‘Pippen’ role doing a little bit of everything. And while Reaves will continue improving, he’s probably not gonna be a guy who fills the ‘clear number 1’ role when Lebron is gone. And frankly neither is AD. I think for the Lakers it’s worth it to give up Reaves to to go all-in now, since the biggest thing theyre missing is what Kyrie brings, consistent scoring. If he can give them a steady 22-25 a night theyre gonna be in real good shape. Meanwhile Luka and Reaves are basically the same age, so thatd be a great partnership going forward


Reaves is nice but he doesn't do anything to alleviate the mavs main problem that they have 0 rim protection or good big men players.

Since yall complain about AD so much how about kyrie, hardaway and some picks for him?

If I was Cuban that would be my only offer.

[90sgoat]

Does AD want to play for Mavs?

I imagine that kind of trade deal would mean that Lakers would blow up and Lebron was on the way out.

AD would fit amazing for Luka.

[90sgoat]

Anyone watching Memphis?

Not sure that some of these new guys like Lively and DJJ have the same charisma as DFS and Dinwidde, but this team is definitely better than last years.

Honestly last years team really had a lot of not very good players and very unbalanced.

Remarkable how much better they look just from having players that fit their natural positions.

[k0kakw0rld]

What do you think, do Mavs have what it takes to get to the playoffs and go deep?

I like Grant Williams, quality signing, Lively looks decent.

Don't like Kyrie, seems cooked.
Luka ball isn't winning you anything

[jlip]

I'm at the Grizz/ Mavs game right now. I know that Kyrie is out, but I am not impressed with the Mavs. The Grizz are playing like trash and the Mavs SHOULD be dominating but they are not at the moment. As of right now the Mavs are not contenders.

[FultzNationRISE]

Anyone watching Memphis?

Not sure that some of these new guys like Lively and DJJ have the same charisma as DFS and Dinwidde, but this team is definitely better than last years.

Honestly last years team really had a lot of not very good players and very unbalanced.

Remarkable how much better they look just from having players that fit their natural positions.


Lively and Williams are good fits but neither are studs, and backing them up are the likes of Josh Powell, Josh Green and Jaden Hardy. Not a real strong bench. There's just not enough talent there to make a deep playoff run IMO. Theyll need luck executing the perfect Kyrie trade at the deadline.

[Xiao Yao You]

let's see if they can make the play-in before we worry about a playoff run

[FultzNationRISE]

Luka ball isn't winning you anything

He's pushing the ball and spreading it around more, but the team around him is just not good. Theyve needed Doncic to 'takeover' at some point every game and he's done it. Luka's playing great, looks even better than last year. But he's got a VERY limited team around him.

[FultzNationRISE]

let's see if they can make the play-in before we worry about a playoff run

This comment makes no sense.

This isnt last year's team, it's a different team.

If your point is that Luka was on last year's team, he was also on the team that bounced Toody's ass out of the playoffs and went to the conference finals.

So what you're saying makes no sense.

[90sgoat]

The Grizz are playing like trash and the Mavs SHOULD be dominating but they are not at the moment.

This is going to sound conspiratorial, but I honestly think Luka are keeping these games closer than they need to be on purpose, because he wants to rack up stats to be MVP.

When they're ahead by a good margin, he simply stops playing defense and the rest of the team takes his lead.

He's toying with them.

[90sgoat]

He's pushing the ball and spreading it around more, but the team around him is just not good. Theyve needed Doncic to 'takeover' at some point every game and he's done it. Luka's playing great, looks even better than last year. But he's got a VERY limited team around him.

And yet we're looking at a 3-0 start.

[FultzNationRISE]

And yet we're looking at a 3-0 start.

Sure but they've played the Spurs, Nets, and a shorthanded Grizzlies. Mavs deserve credit for taking care of business but these arent the teams they'd face in the postseason.

They'll struggle against the top West teams without some kind of roster upgrade IMO.

[Doomsday Dallas]

Cowboys get a blowout win, Mavs 3-0, Rangers win Game 3 of the World Series.


The Dallas sports world is looking good right about now.


we need this trend to continue.

[pastis]

Sry to say this: imo Luka and irving wont work out. Both need the ball to be effective and i think that both egos dont get along with each other. I really dont understand why the FO did not go for a big man....btw: Kleber didnt develop in any way since 2018...

[tontoz]

Sry to say this: imo Luka and irving wont work out. Both need the ball to be effective and i think that both egos dont get along with each other. I really dont understand why the FO did not go for a big man....btw: Kleber didnt develop in any way since 2018...

They drafted a big in Lively. Kleber is a good player who was hurt last year.

I would just wait awhile before making any judgements.

[Phoenix]

Sry to say this: imo Luka and irving wont work out. Both need the ball to be effective and i think that both egos dont get along with each other. I really dont understand why the FO did not go for a big man....btw: Kleber didnt develop in any way since 2018...

Luka with Lively and a perimeter supporting cast of Brunson, DRS and Hardaway Jr goes further than he will with Kyrie. There's no available metrics I'm aware of that suggest he's actually a net positive in terms of W/Ls or team ceiling. Refer to Cleveland more or less achieving the same thing in 2018 that they did in 2017, Boston being better immediately before and after his arrival, and the Nets in (IIRC) 2020 having a better W/L record when he was injured than when he was playing.

Any team that has success with Kyrie needs a floor general/leader that completely removes him from that obligation as his position would typically require, and someone who doesn't mind deferring in the clutch. He had that with Lebron, but Luka shows far more willingness to take the big shot without hesitation than Lebron did during that Cavs run ( minus maybe 2018). As you said, their egos aren't aligned even if you somehow made it work in terms of skillsets.

[tpols]

Luka with Lively and a perimeter supporting cast of Brunson, DRS and Hardaway Jr goes further than he will with Kyrie. There's no available metrics I'm aware of that suggest he's actually a net positive in terms of W/Ls or team ceiling. Refer to Cleveland more or less achieving the same thing in 2018 that they did in 2017, Boston being better immediately before and after his arrival, and the Nets in (IIRC) 2020 having a better W/L record when he was injured than when he was playing.

Any team that has success with Kyrie needs a floor general/leader that completely removes him from that obligation as his position would typically require, and someone who doesn't mind deferring in the clutch. He had that with Lebron, but Luka shows far more willingness to take the big shot without hesitation than Lebron did during that Cavs run ( minus maybe 2018). As you said, their egos aren't aligned even if you somehow made it work in terms of skillsets.


There's really not much of a difference between Luka having Brunson or Kyrie. They're both scoring guards who can ball out in the playoffs but do nothing outside of that.

None of this was Brunsons or Kyries fault. They just have zero big man presence and that's extremely tough to overcome no matter how good your guard talent is. To pin it all on Kyrie is crazy though.

[tpols]

Mavs are undefeated right now btw.

[Carbine]

This style of play is proven to be great in the regular season.

With Luka basically averaging a 40 point quadruple double so far it's easy to see a path to 55-60 wins given he performs as the MVP in this hyper Luka focused role.

[Phoenix]

There's really not much of a difference between Luka having Brunson or Kyrie. They're both scoring guards who can ball out in the playoffs but do nothing outside of that.

None of this was Brunsons or Kyries fault. They just have zero big man presence and that's extremely tough to overcome no matter how good your guard talent is. To pin it all on Kyrie is crazy though.

Brunson is not the enigma Kyrie is, and was a very clear no.2 supporting talent to Luka. That unto itself can result in a more cohesive, functioning team even with the individual talent dropoff.

Again, theres more than enough evidence showing that teams suffered no drop off or improved in his absence. I've provided examples of such for every team he played for and ultimately left. KD on his own kept the Nets afloat last year when Kyrie did his annual 'I need time off for reasons' schtick, another example I omitted.

If you have any counter examples of where he's tangibly improved a teams W/L record and/or a team was worse off for his absence I'm all ears. Otherwise, much like ImKobe, Kyrie being a Kobe disciple shields his very obvious flaws from your assessment of him.

[Phoenix]

This style of play is proven to be great in the regular season.

With Luka basically averaging a 40 point quadruple double so far it's easy to see a path to 55-60 wins given he performs as the MVP in this hyper Luka focused role.

Luka started off last season on a MVP pace and dropped off. His conditioning will play the biggest factor in whether he can uphold that standard over the season.

[FultzNationRISE]

Brunson is not the enigma Kyrie is, and was a very clear no.2 supporting talent to Luka. That unto itself can result in a more cohesive, functioning team even with the individual talent dropoff.

Again, theres more than enough evidence showing that teams suffered no drop off or improved in his absence. I've provided examples of such for every team he played for and ultimately left. If you have any counter examples of where he's tangible improved a teams W/L record I'm all ears. Otherwise, much like ImKobe, Kyrie being a Kobe disciple shields his very obvious flaws from your assessment of him.


Yup. Brunson was a serious, professional, hard working hustle player who was always going hard af. The intangibles difference is night and day. Plus when they had him they were bringing Dinwiddie off the bench which was a perfect fit, and which they should have continued doing last year as I said from Day 1.

If Ree came off the bench itd make more sense but it’s hard enough for him to take his team seriously as a starter, Im sure theyd have no luck getting him to play sixth man. Ree resented the hell out of Lebron for being ‘celebrated’ the way Kyrie thinks he himself is owed, Luka being younger and whiter Im sure has Irving hating everything about being in the nba right now. If dude didnt have a ginormous check to collect hed have probably already started skipping games to attend PLO demonstrations. Theres no way this dude gives his all when it matters, if anything I wouldnt be surprised if he purposely subverts the team from being successful later on.

[hold this L]

1st round exit.

This style of play is proven to be great in the regular season.

With Luka basically averaging a 40 point quadruple double so far it's easy to see a path to 55-60 wins given he performs as the MVP in this hyper Luka focused role.
They have zero shot at grabbing 60 wins. He does give Harden-tier vibes but hasn't been able to sustain the level through a whole season as stated.

[tpols]

Brunson is not the enigma Kyrie is, and was a very clear no.2 supporting talent to Luka. That unto itself can result in a more cohesive, functioning team even with the individual talent dropoff.

Enigma? What has Kyrie done to make him not fit in on this Dallas team the way Brunson did? What strife has he caused?

Brunson averaged 16/5/4 in his last year with Dallas when they made the WCFs while providing no more defense, rebounding, or passing than Kyrie.

The reason they went far in the playoffs? Luka going nuts. Brunson never even approached peak Kyrie levels in that run.



Again, theres more than enough evidence showing that teams suffered no drop off or improved in his absence.



The Mavs were lotto last year before they even got kyrie and Luka simultaneously got hurt. Boston was #1 seed before kyrie got hurt with him clearly leading the charge and that was after Hayward a top signing snapped his leg in half.

And then Kyrie totally destroyed peak Curry H2H on the biggest stage.

:biggums:


Yup... no teams ever suffered a drop off or had a come up with Kyrie around...

He only did this in the NBA Finals to help win his team a ring.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ClArCksWQAQ_EqP.jpg


I'm all ears.

No you're not. :oldlol:

You're on some dumb shit.

[Real Men Wear Green]

The Celtic win percentage in the Kyrie years regular season was the exact same with him as it was without him and they ended up doing better in the playoffs when he was out than when he was on the floor. That is partially because Tatum and Brown didn't know how to defer and contribute offensively on the level they had while he was out but if he was more of a point guard that would have gone better.

Even you should know what is meant when Irving is called an enigma.

[tpols]

Cowboys get a blowout win, Mavs 3-0, Rangers win Game 3 of the World Series.


The Dallas sports world is looking good right about now.


we need this trend to continue.

They're looking good right now.

[tpols]

The Celtic win percentage in the Kyrie years regular season was the exact same with him as it was without him and they ended up doing better in the playoffs when he was out than when he was on the floor. That is partially because Tatum and Brown didn't know how to defer and contribute offensively on the level they had while he was out but if he was more of a point guard that would have gone better.

Even you should know what is meant when Irving is called an enigma.


Yes I know what it means but it doesn't make much sense here since kyrie hasn't done anything negatively intangibly to hurt Dallas. And their main problem is obviously their lack of big men talent and defense.

You guys didn't lose because of Kyrie. You lost because your best players are ******* on the biggest stage ie Tatum and Brown shitting the bed while Kyrie was pulling stunts like this when it counted.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ClArCksWQAQ_EqP.jpg

You seem to take after them though so I suppose it's all fitting.

[RRR3]

All the available evidence we have suggests Kyrie has no impact on winning. The quintessential empty stats player. Deep down tpols knows this but if he admits it he'd have to admit LeBron didn't have particularly impressive help in 2016 :lol

[tpols]

It was blurred out but ********* was the word used.

Just to clarify.

[Axe]

If kyrie was so phenomenal, then why did the mavs have a losing record in his first few games there last rs? :ohwell:

[RRR3]

Kyrie in the playoffs without a top 3 player of all time at his side:

21.9 PPG on 54.1 TS% :yaohappy:


That sure looks like a ***** when it counts to me

[Real Men Wear Green]

Yes I know what it means but it doesn't make much sense here since kyrie hasn't done anything negatively intangibly to hurt Dallas. And their main problem is obviously their lack of big men talent and defense.

You guys didn't lose because of Kyrie. You lost because your best players are ******* on the biggest stage ie Tatum and Brown shitting the bed while Kyrie was pulling stunts like this when Then I guess Irving hasn't played in a game that's mattered since the Cavs finals because he's done nothing in a playoff series since he took off that jersey. If Tatum's fifty point playoff games don't matter then Irving without Lebron is less than nothing. Did he get something like 1 or two playoff wins in three years with Kevin Durant? Including by the way, getting swept by Tatum and Brown while they shit the bed. I guess he was the bed.

[Phoenix]

Enigma? What has Kyrie done to make him not fit in on this Dallas team the way Brunson did? What strife has he caused?


How many games has he played for them? He has his contract now. Were you in a coma when he left Boston? The last two seasons on the Nets?



Brunson averaged 16/5/4 in his last year with Dallas when they made the WCFs while providing no more defense, rebounding, or passing than Kyrie.


He also averaged 27ppg in the 2022 first round series against the Jazz, putting the Mavs in position to win the series with Luka out the first 3 games. Kyrie has never done anything like that in a high pressure situation unless he had a much better player alongside him, which is pretty much the only way he makes the playoffs for 95% of his career.



The reason they went far in the playoffs? Luka going nuts. Brunson never even approached peak Kyrie levels in that run.


Jaylen got the Knicks to the 2nd round last year with Randle playing like shit. What's Kyrie's playoff record without Lebron or KD? What's his playoff record for the one year in Boston they made the playoffs with him as the best player? What did that same team do in the playoffs the year before when he wasn't available, with younger versions of Tatum/Brown to boot?

For the record, if your argument that the Mavs only went far in the playoffs that year is because Luka went nuts, since you wanted to point out that they're currently 3-0 as if Kyrie has been crucial to that start, it behooves me to point out that Luka is averaging 39/12/10 on 56/49/70 in 3 games. Kyrie is averaging 20/5/5 on 39/17/100 in 2 games. Kyrie missing a game and being outright shit on offense fortunately hasn't affected their W/L.......yet.






The Mavs were lotto last year before they even got kyrie and Luka simultaneously got hurt. Boston was #1 seed before kyrie got hurt with him clearly leading the charge and that was after Hayward a top signing snapped his leg in half.


Disingenuous per usual. They were among a handful of teams a game apart that were in the play-in race. If Kyrie is the ceiling raiser you seem to be advocating for, his arrival should have catapulted the team into the middle of the pack at least. Instead IIRC they lost their first 3 games upon his arrival. If Kyrie was that crucial to the Celtics, they should have barely made the playoffs without him when he left. Instead Tatum immediately catapults to All-NBA 3rd team, Brown has his first 20ppg year, and the team advances to the conference finals. Meanwhile Kyrie's bullshit systematically destroys any hope of the Nets forging enough chemistry and cohesion to make the kind of championship push predicted for them.



And then Kyrie totally destroyed peak Curry H2H on the biggest stage.


To a less than 100% Curry, and only in that position because of a much better player. Its 2023, the cache on that shot over Steph ran out a few years ago.




Yup... no teams ever suffered a drop off


Cavs in 2017 with Kyrie made the finals. Cavs in 2018 without Kyrie.....made the finals. No dropoff.






No you're not. :oldlol:

You're on some dumb shit.

If anyone would know what that looks like.....

[Phoenix]

Yes I know what it means but it doesn't make much sense here since kyrie hasn't done anything negatively intangibly to hurt Dallas.


Obviously a description based on like the last 5 years. He's played 22 total games for him. The jury is very much out on how this situation pans out.

[tpols]

He [Brunson] also averaged 27ppg in the 2022 first round series against the Jazz, putting the Mavs in position to win the series with Luka out the first 3 games. Kyrie has never done anything like that.


:biggums:

A 1st round series = this to win a ring???

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ClArCksWQAQ_EqP.jpg

Kyrie did what Brunson did at the highest level while putting in a dagger for a championship and you say that isn't worth a 1st round stat sheet? :oldlol: :facepalm Some true retard shit.

And I like Brunson. He's unbelievably skilled. But to act like he's much better than kyrie? And the main thing the Mavs are missing isn't their big man rotation?

I'm sorry bro but you're coming off as mentally challenged with a take like that...

[Axe]

Thurston getting bodybagged a lot itt. Calm down now, my guy.

[Phoenix]

:biggums:

A 1st round series = this to win a ring???

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ClArCksWQAQ_EqP.jpg

Kyrie did what Brunson did at the highest level while putting in a dagger for a championship and you say that isn't worth a 1st round stat sheet? :oldlol: :facepalm Some true retard shit.

And I like Brunson. He's unbelievably skilled. But to act like he's much better than kyrie? And the main thing the Mavs are missing isn't their big man rotation?

I'm sorry bro but you're coming off as mentally challenged with a take like that...

You speak of mentally challenged, but I haven't made a single post saying Brunson was better so your comprehension skills are currently in question. Or per normal, you create strawman arguments. There isn't a single person in this thread, myself included, who has said Brunson is better at the game of basketball. What I DID say, initially and to which you responded to.... Kyrie's enigmatic personality and penchant for locker-room drama trumps or cancels out alot of what he does on the court, so a lesser but still very good player like Brunson can fit alongside Luka, and yield better team results than with an individually better player in Kyrie. After 35k posts I feel like at least once I've seen you address the topic of 'fit', but I guess that depends on what you're arguing or more specifically, who you are arguing against between the lines. Kyrie being a disciple of Kobe and being Lebron's teammate is all the motivation you need to act like he has some legacy of success outside a very specific window, and with a very specific player. Couldn't make it work with his 'best friend' KD. You have no counter to how Boston improved when he left, made it further before he got there, and completely destroyed any chance for the Nets with his on again, off again shenanigans. Completely destroyed any chance of chemistry being built. And let's not forget that Kyrie has played 60 games once in the past 5 years. Something about availability being the best ability.....

You can drop that pic 100 times, it doesn't dismiss the fact that Kyrie's one crowning achievement, and really the only steady point of his career, was next to Lebron. His playoff legacy asides from that is riddled with failure. Jaylen, as the best player on a team, has taken a team further than Kyrie has. Talking about a shot and good finals run 7 years ago made possible as a running mate to a historically great player doesn't address that Kyrie's career outside of that 2014-2017 period has far more valleys than peaks. Sorry if those facts hurt you.

[tpols]

We don't have to go back 7 years. Kyrie did this 1.5 years ago in the playoffs vs the Celtics.


https://youtu.be/vzyJUS2z3k8?si=8dcc8Ox2fR_VoCJS

KD shit the bed and Kyrie went nuts.



Year before that...


https://youtu.be/IFwsUjZTuzM?si=DIArZEnb40jHfdWF

Destroyed the Celtics in the 1st round.

:lol :facepalm

[Phoenix]

Your video says unavailable. He did do this though.....

https://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/2019-nba-eastern-conference-semifinals-celtics-vs-bucks.html

Kyrie as 'the man'. :applause::applause: No doubt the team went to hell when he left....

https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/BOS/2020.html

Oh wait....:lol

[tpols]

Check your internet connection again homeboy...

The videos all proof.

[RRR3]

Kyrie has legit been embarrassing for a player with his reputation in the playoffs without LeBron at his side. Cherry picking good games doesn’t disprove that. He puts up like 21-22 PPG on mediocre efficiency without LeBron in the playoffs. Kemba Walker with hype.

[Phoenix]

Check your internet connection again homeboy...

The videos all proof.

My connection is fine if I'm here talking to you.....homeboy

The links are also proof. Kyrie as the best player on a team is a flop.

[Phoenix]

Kyrie has legit been embarrassing for a player with his reputation in the playoffs without LeBron at his side. Cherry picking good games doesn’t disprove that. He puts up like 21-22 PPG on mediocre efficiency without LeBron in the playoffs. Kemba Walker with hype.

Exactly. He has to refer to cherry-picked 'moments' to act like Kyrie is some career floor raiser, while ignoring that over a course of a season, he doesn't affect the win or loss column tangibly. That's the point being made. Didn't in Boston, didn't in Brooklyn, and the Mavs starting this year 3-0 with Kyrie playing like shit.

[tpols]

My connection is fine if I'm here talking to you.....homeboy

The links are also proof. Kyrie as the best player on a team is a flop.

Were talking 2nd options here.

I'm not the one saying he's worse than Brunson and "never did what he did in the playoffs" despite having a dominating role en route to a title.

Now you want to strawman to 1st option? :lol:facepalm

You a whole clown.

[RRR3]

Were talking 2nd options here.

I'm not the one saying he's worse than Brunson and "never did what he did in the playoffs" despite having a dominating role en route to a title.

Now you want to strawman to 1st option? :lol:facepalm

You a whole clown.
Brunson gives you the same production without ruining the locker room. Seems infinitely preferable to me.

[imdaman99]

Brunson gives you the same production without ruining the locker room. Seems infinitely preferable to me.

I like Brunson but I think Kyrie's ceiling is higher. Brunson is capable of beating good defenses but he can also get locked up. I don't anticipate him doing well vs a team like the Celtics. Kyrie is capable of embarrassing good defenses, especially if it becomes a tightly contested series. That being said, I would rather have Brunson right now as he is not someone that can kill a locker room.

[Phoenix]

Were talking 2nd options here.

I'm not the one saying he's worse than Brunson and "never did what he did in the playoffs" despite having a dominating role en route to a title.

Now you want to strawman to 1st option? :lol:facepalm

You a whole clown.

And I've addressed that. As a 2nd option the ONLY time he has been successful is next to Lebron and that hurts you. Unless and until such time that the Mavs as currently constructed, at minimum, duplicate the success of that 2022 team, there's no basis whatsoever to declare Kyrie the better 2nd option for Luka as far as team results, regardless of being a better player in general. He's been shit to start the year and the Mavs are 3-0. Admittedly a small sample size, but still to show how trivial he impacts the W/L record. Since you saw fit to bring up the record as if Kyrie is even remotely responsible for it off his early season play.

You the whole circus homeboy.

[Phoenix]

I like Brunson but I think Kyrie's ceiling is higher. Brunson is capable of beating good defenses but he can also get locked up. I don't anticipate him doing well vs a team like the Celtics. Kyrie is capable of embarrassing good defenses, especially if it becomes a tightly contested series. That being said, I would rather have Brunson right now as he is not someone that can kill a locker room.

That's the point being made, and the one Tpols deliberately chooses to be obtuse about. Nobody is saying Brunson is a 'better' player. Kyrie is clearly a tier or two above in skill and how dynamic he is. But fit counts for something and nobody in the last 5 years has shed a tear watching Kyrie walk out the door.

[Phoenix]

4-0 for the Mavs, 2-0 without Kyrie. Dude's got his contract and in mid-season form already. :applause:

[NBAGOAT]

I mean Mavs will need Kyrie if they want to be contenders but he does seem pretty happy in Dallas and got his money. Just hope he can replicate what he did with lebron and hope role players will have career years and Luka plays like the MVP. Will lead to a top 5 offense and hopefully average defense and that’s a 50 win team. Grant Williams has been making everything so far and been exactly what they needed on defense and livelys been a huge surprise and hardaway scores well off the bench. Only really worried about sf for the Mavs though Josh green could be fine. They have a pick to trade too(hello Jerami grant)

[tontoz]

Doncic was off, Kyrie was out but they still won. Their supporting cast has definitely been upgraded.

[90sgoat]

I think people will be surprised with Luka if Mavs make the playoffs.

Luka is coasting a lot, particularly on defense. He doesn't really try until the 4th. Just wants to swap baskets. This isn't his final form.

[Manny98]

4-0

No Kyrie and Luka having an off night yet still won

Lively ROTY so far :banana:

[Carbine]

It is definitely reasonable to say Kyrie has shown throughout his career that his impact on winning does not correlate to his individual stats.

The proof of that assertion far outweighs the few individual moments in his career where he lifted a team to a big win.

[FultzNationRISE]

It is definitely reasonable to say Kyrie has shown throughout his career that his impact on winning does not correlate to his individual stats.

The proof of that assertion far outweighs the few individual moments in his career where he lifted a team to a big win.


It’s happening again as we speak. Mavs 2-0 without Ree :lol

[Manny98]

It’s happening again as we speak. Mavs 2-0 without Ree :lol

2-0 with him as well

Irving instilling a winning culture into this Mavs team :applause:

[FultzNationRISE]

2-0 with him as well

Irving instilling a winning culture into this Mavs team :applause:


Manny.


http://d326x4sksnvb72.cloudfront.net/media/product_images/ittch_large.ztkxgea5csfzshe2.jpg


https://media1.tenor.com/images/055c150a59c71b138134e842c82990ac/tenor.gif?itemid=16216233

[tpols]

I think people will be surprised with Luka if Mavs make the playoffs.

Luka is coasting a lot, particularly on defense. He doesn't really try until the 4th. Just wants to swap baskets. This isn't his final form.


I don't think anybody is gonna be surprised by playoff Luka. Last time he was there he did this.


https://youtu.be/Frtb_tIh9Is?si=bpggONTLaN0VX3ib

One of the mentally toughest, confident biggest ball players we've ever seen.

And if they can save Kyrie for it, we will all witness complete destruction in crunchtime 4th quarters.


https://youtu.be/vzyJUS2z3k8?si=BKy7Il8CE3m4iY2h

Just have to stay healthy and coast out the the regular season.⁰

[tpols]

Yo Luka @ 2:30 in that video is one of the most disrespectful burials I've ever seen. :roll:

[tontoz]

Luka has been a beast consistently in the playoffs. His career averages in the playoffs are 32.5/9/8.

[90sgoat]

Lively ROTY so far :banana:

Lively is actually good too. Can do all the center things and pass the ball.

First time in a long time Mavs got a decent big.

[Phoenix]

It is definitely reasonable to say Kyrie has shown throughout his career that his impact on winning does not correlate to his individual stats.

The proof of that assertion far outweighs the few individual moments in his career where he lifted a team to a big win.

Perfectly stated.

[Phoenix]

Luka has been a beast consistently in the playoffs. His career averages in the playoffs are 32.5/9/8.

People tried to say he's the new Harden, but quite the opposite especially in high stakes. Luka raises his play in the playoffs.

[SATAN]

Luka is the biggest stat padding ball hog I've ever seen. His constant crying and psychotic eyed stare downs to the refs have made me enjoy watching him lose these days. He plays for fouls and stats. Hope he never wins anything ever. Sorry Dallas fans.

[Full Court]

Luka is the biggest stat padding ball hog I've ever seen. His constant crying and psychotic eyed stare downs to the refs have made me enjoy watching him lose these days. He plays for fouls and stats. Hope he never wins anything ever. Sorry Dallas fans.

I didn't particularly like Luka, but if Beezleblubber is rooting against him, I'm now hoping Dallas wins it all.

[90sgoat]

5-1 start is impressive, even if not great competition.

I didn't think the in-season tourney counted in the standings, but Mavs are currently 2nd.

The crazy thing is that this team isn't even playing like a cohesive unit yet and it still wins.

Kyrie seems to have bought in, whatever that means, but he is deferring and not making scenes.

[Xiao Yao You]

5-1 start is impressive, even if not great competition.

I didn't think the in-season tourney counted in the standings, but Mavs are currently 2nd.

The crazy thing is that this team isn't even playing like a cohesive unit yet and it still wins.

Kyrie seems to have bought in, whatever that means, but he is deferring and not making scenes.

Kyrie bought in last year too until he didn't. Good luck with that! :roll:

[tontoz]

To me the key player is Lively. We know what Luka can do and the biggest hole on their team was the one that Lively is filling. If he keeps playing well it is a gamechanger for them.

[theman93]

Dallas has looked good so far but they'll take the L in Orlando tonight. Franz and Paolo will prove to be too overwhelming and Suggs/Black should keep Kyrie limited.

[ArbitraryWater]

Sure but they've played the Spurs, Nets, and a shorthanded Grizzlies. Mavs deserve credit for taking care of business but these arent the teams they'd face in the postseason.

They'll struggle against the top West teams without some kind of roster upgrade IMO.


Well the top West teams are absurdly stacked like nothing before.

Itd be a mircacle if they can keep up with the Suns or Clippers.

lakers and nuggets are out of their talent range as well.

[90sgoat]

To me the key player is Lively. We know what Luka can do and the biggest hole on their team was the one that Lively is filling. If he keeps playing well it is a gamechanger for them.

He's surprisingly finished in terms of skill. Can do just about everything skill wise, but he is really lacking in rebounding, which keeps on being the Mavs major issue for 5 years running. They really need to get a strong rebounder at the PF.

[90sgoat]

Dallas has looked good so far but they'll take the L in Orlando tonight. Franz and Paolo will prove to be too overwhelming and Suggs/Black should keep Kyrie limited.

Imagine having Wagner and Paolo as your forwards, that's one hell of a young duo going forward. Can they co-exist though?

[Xiao Yao You]

Well the top West teams are absurdly stacked like nothing before.

Itd be a mircacle if they can keep up with the Suns or Clippers.

lakers and nuggets are out of their talent range as well.

being healthy and not a shit show is a thing too.

[Xiao Yao You]

Clutch Points: The Clippers’ expected starting lineup tonight vs. Knicks: Russell Westbrook James Harden Kawhi Leonard Paul George Ivica Zubac (https://*********.com/social/) Combined this starting lineup averages 96.2 career points per game 👀 pic.twitter.com/15fWfCqnNZ

– via Twitter ClutchPointsApp (https://twitter.com/ClutchPointsApp)




good luck with that :roll:

[theman93]

Imagine having Wagner and Paolo as your forwards, that's one hell of a young duo going forward. Can they co-exist though?

Absolutely. Paolo is the offensive engine and Franz is the Swiss Army knife piece who can play off ball ala Detlef Schrempf

[90sgoat]

Absolutely. Paolo is the offensive engine and Franz is the Swiss Army knife piece who can play off ball ala Detlef Schrempf

I think that's a big mistake judging by his play in FIBA ball.

He's more Lebron/Luka than Durant/Tatum.

He's a very good playmaker.

Paolo reminds me more of Blake Griffin, you can have him playmake in the open court, but otherwise you want him closer to the basket.

[tontoz]

117 points against Orlando without anyone scoring 20. That is hard to do. Usually some gets at least 20.

[ArbitraryWater]

117 points against Orlando without anyone scoring 20. That is hard to do. Usually some gets at least 20.

what are you talking about

[1987_Lakers]

117 points against Orlando without anyone scoring 20. That is hard to do. Usually some gets at least 20.

3 Mavs had 20+ points. :lol

You are usually pretty sharp, but age is probably getting to you, I remember you stating that you watched 70's NBA

[90sgoat]

Kyrie and Luka are probably the clutchest players in the league and they're on the same team.

Like I said, they're going to win a lot of games they shouldn't, just because they're clutch.

If they can get a rebounder for Tim Hardaway Junior, then they're looking solid for the playoffs.

[ArbitraryWater]

You are usually pretty sharp, but age is probably getting to you, I remember you stating that you watched 70's NBA

:roll:

[1987_Lakers]

:roll:

lol, I wasn't trying to clown him, I'm genuinely curious if it's an age thing. Dude talked about watching the '78 Finals while it happened which is wild.

[theman93]

I think that's a big mistake judging by his play in FIBA ball.

He's more Lebron/Luka than Durant/Tatum.

He's a very good playmaker.

Paolo reminds me more of Blake Griffin, you can have him playmake in the open court, but otherwise you want him closer to the basket.

Paolo is also a good playmaker. You have to have Franz play off ball because Paolo can't space the floor whereas Franz can and is also already and elite cutter, especially back door.

[tpols]

Kyrie with 10 dimes and the highest +/- on the team in tonight's win.

[Axe]

3 Mavs had 20+ points. :lol

You are usually pretty sharp, but age is probably getting to you, I remember you stating that you watched 70's NBA
:roll:

Poor uncle lmao

[FultzNationRISE]

lol, I wasn't trying to clown him, I'm genuinely curious if it's an age thing. Dude talked about watching the '78 Finals while it happened which is wild.

:oldlol:

There was somethin wrong with the ESPN box score for that game for a while. I noticed it earlier.

[90sgoat]

Kyrie with 10 dimes and the highest +/- on the team in tonight's win.

2 games in a row he has 10+ assists.

Quietly being a very contributing player, letting Luka statpad for 3 quarters then finishing in the 4th.

He's using the role he had with Lebron!

[NBAGOAT]

Mavs are a problem. Luka/Kyrie are like 90% of lebron/Kyrie and they got 2 solid starters in the offseason in grant and lively. Josh greens been the one disappointment so kind of wondering if they make a trade for sf like Jerami grant. Jones has been good but he’s a bench guy

[tontoz]

3 Mavs had 20+ points. :lol

You are usually pretty sharp, but age is probably getting to you, I remember you stating that you watched 70's NBA

There was a delay in the box score. I checked it after the game and it had Hardaway as the leading scorer at 19.

I have seen that before during games but usually it's correct after the game.

[Street Hunger]

On paper they are very mediocre. On the court they seem excellent. Though they lost today and the season is still early.

[CTbasketball92]

I think they have the makings of a really good team. I'll lay out the positives:

1. Luka is a top 3 or so player in the league. Besides Jokic, there's no one I trust more in the playoffs. He is so big and so strong and so good with the ball, he is going to light you up for an efficient 30-point triple double whenever he needs to.

2. Lively seems like he'll be a solid contributor all year. He is a great athlete with good hands and is a perfect lob threat with Luka and Kyrie around. He is a shot of above the rim force and size and athletic ability the mavs have sorely lacked.

3. Grant Williams and Derrick Jones Jr. = Grant has been even better than I hoped, even though he'll come back down to earth. DJJ is a great athlete who seems like he can defend and he's got some energy and length. Another lob threat and he's an okay shooter. Not really a shooter, but he'll be incredibly open and he'll knock some down. Throw in Josh Green who is also an athlete with okay size, and Dante Exum, they have some mobile athletes who can possibly do some things that help make their defense okay enough with Lively.

Concerns:

1. I saw them against the raptors today and they were just missing every rebound. It was crazy. When Livelys' not there, Dwight Powell and Kleiber simply aren't good enough in the paint. They missed multiple layups that would've been easy dunks for Lively tonight. they're not rim deterrents. They need to get rid of them and get a solid defensive big man, idk how, but they are bad.

2. Kyrie: He looks fine and he's getting into rhythm, but ever since he returned from the COVID BS in 2022, he's been oddly passive at strange times. Even when Luka's not on the court, he's letting THJ and Grant Williams do a bunch of isos and pull ups as he just stands in the corner. Idk if his motor is gone, or if its just coaching, but he needs to realize that he has to be All-NBA Kyrie rather than just "All-Star." He's too good to just sit around while Luka, and even other role players do everything. Hes gotta attack and look to ISO more because that will get people open and open up his playmaking even more. If Kyrie isn't 2017-last year Kyrie, mavs have no shot, period. But he's generally played well enough in the early going, but needs to be more forceful.

[SATAN]

1. Luka is a top 3 or so player in the league. Besides Jokic, there's no one I trust more in the playoffs. He is so big and so strong and so good with the ball, he is going to light you up for an efficient 30-point triple double whenever he needs to.



:roll:

[NBAGOAT]

I think they have the makings of a really good team. I'll lay out the positives:

1. Luka is a top 3 or so player in the league. Besides Jokic, there's no one I trust more in the playoffs. He is so big and so strong and so good with the ball, he is going to light you up for an efficient 30-point triple double whenever he needs to.

2. Lively seems like he'll be a solid contributor all year. He is a great athlete with good hands and is a perfect lob threat with Luka and Kyrie around. He is a shot of above the rim force and size and athletic ability the mavs have sorely lacked.

3. Grant Williams and Derrick Jones Jr. = Grant has been even better than I hoped, even though he'll come back down to earth. DJJ is a great athlete who seems like he can defend and he's got some energy and length. Another lob threat and he's an okay shooter. Not really a shooter, but he'll be incredibly open and he'll knock some down. Throw in Josh Green who is also an athlete with okay size, and Dante Exum, they have some mobile athletes who can possibly do some things that help make their defense okay enough with Lively.

Concerns:

1. I saw them against the raptors today and they were just missing every rebound. It was crazy. When Livelys' not there, Dwight Powell and Kleiber simply aren't good enough in the paint. They missed multiple layups that would've been easy dunks for Lively tonight. they're not rim deterrents. They need to get rid of them and get a solid defensive big man, idk how, but they are bad.

2. Kyrie: He looks fine and he's getting into rhythm, but ever since he returned from the COVID BS in 2022, he's been oddly passive at strange times. Even when Luka's not on the court, he's letting THJ and Grant Williams do a bunch of isos and pull ups as he just stands in the corner. Idk if his motor is gone, or if its just coaching, but he needs to realize that he has to be All-NBA Kyrie rather than just "All-Star." He's too good to just sit around while Luka, and even other role players do everything. Hes gotta attack and look to ISO more because that will get people open and open up his playmaking even more. If Kyrie isn't 2017-last year Kyrie, mavs have no shot, period. But he's generally played well enough in the early going, but needs to be more forceful.

yea a rebounding 3 helps. I suggested jerami grant earlier in the thread, he does help their defense and spacing but he does nothing rebounding wise. DFS return wouldnt be a bad idea. I'm still doubtful about their defense but if luka and kyrie's effort so far is real, they can be ok to even average on defense. I'm not too worried about kyrie, he still scored a lot in 2022. But yes if he's only an all star and top 30 lvl player, dallas doesnt go anywhere

[Xiao Yao You]

I think they have the makings of a really good team. I'll lay out the positives:

1. Luka is a top 3 or so player in the league. Besides Jokic, there's no one I trust more in the playoffs. He is so big and so strong and so good with the ball, he is going to light you up for an efficient 30-point triple double whenever he needs to.

2. Lively seems like he'll be a solid contributor all year. He is a great athlete with good hands and is a perfect lob threat with Luka and Kyrie around. He is a shot of above the rim force and size and athletic ability the mavs have sorely lacked.

3. Grant Williams and Derrick Jones Jr. = Grant has been even better than I hoped, even though he'll come back down to earth. DJJ is a great athlete who seems like he can defend and he's got some energy and length. Another lob threat and he's an okay shooter. Not really a shooter, but he'll be incredibly open and he'll knock some down. Throw in Josh Green who is also an athlete with okay size, and Dante Exum, they have some mobile athletes who can possibly do some things that help make their defense okay enough with Lively.

Concerns:

1. I saw them against the raptors today and they were just missing every rebound. It was crazy. When Livelys' not there, Dwight Powell and Kleiber simply aren't good enough in the paint. They missed multiple layups that would've been easy dunks for Lively tonight. they're not rim deterrents. They need to get rid of them and get a solid defensive big man, idk how, but they are bad.

2. Kyrie: He looks fine and he's getting into rhythm, but ever since he returned from the COVID BS in 2022, he's been oddly passive at strange times. Even when Luka's not on the court, he's letting THJ and Grant Williams do a bunch of isos and pull ups as he just stands in the corner. Idk if his motor is gone, or if its just coaching, but he needs to realize that he has to be All-NBA Kyrie rather than just "All-Star." He's too good to just sit around while Luka, and even other role players do everything. Hes gotta attack and look to ISO more because that will get people open and open up his playmaking even more. If Kyrie isn't 2017-last year Kyrie, mavs have no shot, period. But he's generally played well enough in the early going, but needs to be more forceful.

top 3 but can't even finish in the top 10 in his conference :facepalm

[tontoz]

top 3 but can't even finish in the top 10 in his conference :facepalm

Right, he "can't" do it except for the 3 years in a row that he did it. :facepalm

[90sgoat]

It has to be possible to get a strong rebounding center.

Someone mentioned Daniel Theis not playing for Pacers. Just about all 7 footers would be an upgrade over Dwight Powell and Maxi Kleber.

Question is though, why doesn't Kidd play Richaun Holmes or Javale McGee last year? Why wouldn't he play Porzingis in the post?

It really seems as if Kidd has some kind of issue with more traditional centers.

[Phoenix]

top 3 but can't even finish in the top 10 in his conference :facepalm

You realize he's done that 3 out of 5 seasons and been to the WCFs, yes?

[Xiao Yao You]

You realize he's done that 3 out of 5 seasons and been to the WCFs, yes?

and what happened last year? Top 3 player that can't even get in the play-in?

[tontoz]

and what happened last year? Top 3 player that can't even get in the play-in?

I think you need to invest in Hooked on Phonics to get a better grasp of English. Saying a player can't do something that they have done 3 years in a row makes no sense.

Dallas had a top 5 seed each year from '20 to '22 then last year they broke up the team.

[Xiao Yao You]

I think you need to invest in Hooked on Phonics to get a better grasp of English. Saying a player can't do something that they have done 3 years in a row makes no sense.

Dallas had a top 5 seed each year from '20 to '22 then last year they broke up the team.

top 3 players should be able to finish in the top 10 in the conference, no excuses. Not sure dough boy gets a pass

[warriorfan]

can’t quit luka!

[tontoz]

top 3 players should be able to finish in the top 10 in the conference, no excuses. Not sure dough boy gets a pass

He doesn't need a pass since he has been a top 5 seed 3 straight seasons before they broke up the team.

[dankok8]

They don't play defense. Still think trading Dinwiddie/DFS etc. for Kyrie was a mistake.

[tontoz]

They don't play defense. Still think trading Dinwiddie/DFS etc. for Kyrie was a mistake.

Well yeah, as was letting Brunson walk for nothing. :facepalm

But they did make some good moves last summer drafting Lively, signing Grant and getting Jones Jr for the minimum.

[90sgoat]

Still think trading Dinwiddie/DFS etc. for Kyrie was a mistake.

Dinwiddie was not a good fit overall.

DFS was a big loss, because he was the main culture guy and played defense.

Maybe they can get him back though.

[Phoenix]

and what happened last year? Top 3 player that can't even get in the play-in?

You didn't specify 'last year' though, you made a simplistic blanket statement. In any case, Luka last year was as good as he's ever been. And again, we know that if he has even a 'competent' team he can get to at least the WCFs.

[Phoenix]

I think you need to invest in Hooked on Phonics to get a better grasp of English. Saying a player can't do something that they have done 3 years in a row makes no sense.

Dallas had a top 5 seed each year from '20 to '22 then last year they broke up the team.

He got called out on an objectively incorrect statement and then tried to backtrack 'bu bu but I meant last year!'

[WhiteKyrie]

They don't play defense. Still think trading Dinwiddie/DFS etc. for Kyrie was a mistake.
Neither of them were great defenders either. Ceiling is higher with Kai. Just need to round out the roster with size, athletes and defenders like Denver did for two guys who can’t play a lick of defense in Jokic and Murray. Same difference.

[Xiao Yao You]

He got called out on an objectively incorrect statement and then tried to backtrack 'bu bu but I meant last year!'

where did I backtrack? They weren't in the top 10 teams in their conference last year despite supposedly having a top 3 player. How is that possible?

[tontoz]

where did I backtrack? They weren't in the top 10 teams in their conference last year despite supposedly having a top 3 player. How is that possible?


I guess LeBron and Curry can't win a title since they didn't do it last year. STFU clown.

I think you've had your nose up Rudy's ass for too long. The excessive methane exposure is obviously impairing your cognitive functions.

[Phoenix]

where did I backtrack? They weren't in the top 10 teams in their conference last year despite supposedly having a top 3 player. How is that possible?

This is your original statement:


top 3 but can't even finish in the top 10 in his conference :facepalm

Nowhere in there is it stated or inferred that you were referring exclusively to last season. If you had said 'how can Luka be top 3 when he didn't even make the top 10/play-in last year?', then there's no room for that to be interpreted any other way. But even if we did take your original comment to mean this, Luka's ranking whether you consider him top 3 or top 6 didn't rise or fall based on his team not making the playoffs during a season of notable roster changes. He was individually the same player he had been for the last 2 seasons. For the record I don't think Luka is top 3, but not for your reasoning. Joker, Giannis, Embiid are your top 3 in whatever order you want....the conversation for Luka's ranking starts after that.

[Xiao Yao You]

I guess LeBron and Curry can't win a title since they didn't do it last year. STFU clown.

I think you've had your nose up Rudy's ass for too long. The excessive methane exposure is obviously impairing your cognitive functions.

I certainly don't expect Lebron or Curry to win. You have to be on the floor to win

[Xiao Yao You]

This is your original statement:



Nowhere in there is it stated or inferred that you were referring exclusively to last season. If you had said 'how can Luka be top 3 when he didn't even make the top 10/play-in last year?', then there's no room for that to be interpreted any other way. But even if we did take your original comment to mean this, Luka's ranking whether you consider him top 3 or top 6 didn't rise or fall based on his team not making the playoffs during a season of notable roster changes. He was individually the same player he had been for the last 2 seasons.

what have you done for me lately?

[Phoenix]

what have you done for me lately?

Lead the Mavs to the 2nd best record in the west so far? If you want to play that game, the only people you can argue as better out of the players good enough to be in the discussion are Joker and Embiid on account of team record.

[Xiao Yao You]

Lead the Mavs to the 2nd best record in the west so far? If you want to play that game, the only people you can argue as better out of the players good enough to be in the discussion are Joker and Embiid on account of team record.

it's November 9th. Let's see what Kyrie's schedule looks like first. Got to be a birthday party coming up

[Phoenix]

it's November 9th. Let's see what Kyrie's schedule looks like first. Got to be a birthday party coming up

You asked what have you done for me lately. I just told you.

[tontoz]

Not only did the Mavs lose or trade away key players last season but they also got fined for tanking the end of the season.

[Xiao Yao You]

You asked what have you done for me lately. I just told you.

great. Long season ahead. What happened last year? Oh yeah excuses for the 3rd best player in the league :applause:

[Xiao Yao You]

Not only did the Mavs lose or trade away key players last season but they also got fined for tanking the end of the season.

they tanked because the 3rd best player in the league couldn't get them into the play-in

[Phoenix]

great. Long season ahead. What happened last year? Oh yeah excuses for the 3rd best player in the league :applause:

What does last season have to do with now, when you try to retort with asking 'what have you done for me lately'? Keep up.

[tontoz]

they tanked because the 3rd best player in the league couldn't get them into the play-in


The Mavs didn't want to make the play in. If they did they would have lost their draft pick to the Knicks and wouldn't have Lively.

:facepalm

[Xiao Yao You]

What does last season have to do with now, when you try to retort with asking 'what have you done for me lately'? Keep up.

I assumed if he was top 3 now that he was last year when his team sucked despite his supposed greatness

[Axe]

The Mavs didn't want to make the play in. If they did they would have lost their draft pick to the Knicks and wouldn't have Lively.

:facepalm
From making the conference finals to not making the play-in. That's laughable lol.

[Xiao Yao You]

From making the conference finals to not making the play-in. That's laughable lol.

even our resident simpleton gets it

[Axe]

Well, at least he's been to the conference finals already. :roll:

[Xiao Yao You]

Well, at least he's been to the conference finals already. :roll:

Pillsbury must have a few rings as a top 3 player no?

[Axe]

I believe he'll likely be able to get one before he ends his career than 'he-who-must-not-be-named'. ;)

[tontoz]

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/g195/tontoz/Screenshot_20231109-195356.jpg

[Xiao Yao You]

I believe he'll likely be able to get one before he ends his career than 'he-who-must-not-be-named'. ;)

you would hope so being a top 3 player

[Xiao Yao You]

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/g195/tontoz/Screenshot_20231109-195356.jpg

how many of them missed the play-in?

[tontoz]

how many of them missed the play-in?


How many of their teams got fined for tanking?

How many times have we had to endure you complaining endlessly about DMitch and Clarkson missing shots? Pretty much ever game for years.

[Axe]

How many of their teams got fined for tanking?

How many times have we had to endure you complaining endlessly about DMitch and Clarkson missing shots? Pretty much ever game for years.
:lebronamazed:

[Xiao Yao You]

How many of their teams got fined for tanking?

How many times have we had to endure you complaining endlessly about DMitch and Clarkson missing shots? Pretty much ever game for years.

Why would a good team tank? When you're top 3 player can't get the job done you tank. If you're enduring my complaining that's you're choice. I've had plenty of reasons for it as the current Wolves are proving

[tontoz]

Why would a good team tank? When you're top 3 player can't get the job done you tank. If you're enduring my complaining that's you're choice. I've had plenty of reasons for it as the current Wolves are proving


So do teammates matter, or not?

[Xiao Yao You]

So do teammates matter, or not?

they sure do. A top 3 player ought to finish in the top 10 regardless. Guys have carried teams by themselves many times before. The greats look in the mirror and put it on themselves for being out of shape, playing one end of the floor, putting up empty stats, etc.

[Phoenix]

I assumed if he was top 3 now that he was last year when his team sucked despite his supposed greatness

Well as I said before, I don't think Luka is top 3 so you're barking up the wrong tree. I'm just telling your reasoning for why he isn't is stupid.

[tontoz]

they sure do. A top 3 player ought to finish in the top 10 regardless. Guys have carried teams by themselves many times before. The greats look in the mirror and put it on themselves for being out of shape, playing one end of the floor, putting up empty stats, etc.


Those empty stats got them to the WCF which is farther than Rudy has ever been.

[Xiao Yao You]

Well as I said before, I don't think Luka is top 3 so you're barking up the wrong tree. I'm just telling your reasoning for why he isn't is stupid.

I've seen too many bad teams carried by one player to make excuses for guys that are hyped to be something more than they actually prove on the floor. Mavs being bad is on him more than anyone else. Triple doubles don't sway me as much as the rest of you I guess

[Xiao Yao You]

Those empty stats got them to the WCF which is farther than Rudy has ever been.

Rudy's not being touted as a top 3 player. He was a project that has put in the work and over achieved every step of the way. Donic is a fat ass not getting the most out of his potential

[tontoz]

Rudy's not being touted as a top 3 player. He was a project that has put in the work and over achieved every step of the way. Donic is a fat ass not getting the most out of his potential


Luka averaged 32/9/8 last year. What would he have to average to "live up to his potential"? :facepalm

[Xiao Yao You]

Luka averagesd 32/9/8 last year. What would he have to average to "live up to his potential"? :facepalm

Again empty stats don't move me. How many did he give up at the other end? What would he average if he put in the work in the weight room instead of at the buffet?

[tontoz]

Again empty stats don't move me. How many did he give up at the other end? What would he average if he put in the work in the weight room instead of at the buffet?



The weight room :roll:

Anyone who thinks Luka lacks strength knows nothing about basketball.

[Phoenix]

I've seen too many bad teams carried by one player to make excuses for guys that are hyped to be something more than they actually prove on the floor. Mavs being bad is on him more than anyone else. Triple doubles don't sway me as much as the rest of you I guess

As I said, for the third time.... I don't consider Luka top 3, but it's because I can name at least 3 players who I think are better at basketball without referring to low-hanging fruit arguments about their team, especially when said team was in a state of flux. If them being bad is on him then when they were good before, or ( currently) good now is also on him. Giannis wasn't a worse player or warranted being ranked lower when he went from winning the title in 2021 to losing in the 2nd round the next year. That's not how it works.

[Phoenix]

Again empty stats don't move me. How many did he give up at the other end? What would he average if he put in the work in the weight room instead of at the buffet?

If you think his stats are empty now, why would averaging more than what he currently does not also be empty stats? You're more interested in responding than making sense.

[Xiao Yao You]

As I said, for the third time.... I don't consider Luka top 3, but it's because I can name at least 3 players who I think are better at basketball without referring to low-hanging fruit arguments about their team, especially when said team was in a state of flux. If them being bad is on him then when they were good before, or ( currently) good now is also on him. Giannis wasn't a worse player when he went from winning the title in 2021 to losing in the 2nd round the next year. That's not how it works.

Losing in the 2nd round of the playoffs is a lot different than not even making the play-in. A lot has to go right to win it all. Not that much has to go right for a great player to carry his team to the play-in

[tontoz]

Losing in the 2nd round of the playoffs is a lot different than not even making the play-in. A lot has to go right to win it all. Not that much has to go right for a great player to carry his team to the play-in



Do you think the Mavs would choose to make the play in and not have the chance to draft Lively if they could do it over?

[Xiao Yao You]

Do you think the Mavs would choose to make the play in and not have the chance to draft Lively if they could do it over?

don't know. Not in their inner circle

[tontoz]

don't know. Not in their inner circle


I am asking your opinion, hence the words "do you think". A simple yes or no will do.

[Phoenix]

Losing in the 2nd round of the playoffs is a lot different than not even making the play-in. A lot has to go right to win it all. Not that much has to go right for a great player to carry his team to the play-in

That's not the point. Earlier you said 'what have you done for me lately' meaning you hold a players stature by the standards of what they have done most recently, and discounting what they have done previously even when there's no drop-off in individual play. The Giannis example was dropped to explain that nobody kicked him out of the top 3 because his team results dipped from one year to the next. Luka's ranking shouldn't rise or dip from one year to the next unless he himself is worse or somebody clearly overtakes him. Whatever you considered him in 2022 is exactly where he was at the end of 2023. If you're going to shit on him for the Mavs in 2023 then you also need to give him credit for 2022 but you're not doing that.

[Xiao Yao You]

That's not the point. Earlier you said 'what have you done for me lately' meaning you hold a players stature by the standards of what they have done most recently, and discounting what they have done previously even when there's no drop-off in individual play. The Giannis example was dropped to explain that nobody kicked him out of the top 3 because his team results dipped from one year to the next. Luka's ranking shouldn't rise or dip from one year to the next unless he himself is worse or somebody clearly overtakes him. Whatever you considered him in 2022 is exactly where he was at the end of 2023. If you're going to shit on him for the Mavs in 2023 then you also need to give him credit for 2022 but you're not doing that.

I don't care about individual play. It's a team sport not golf. Going from champion to 2nd round is a lot different than conference finals to lottery. 1 guy can carry a team to a play in and should be expected to to do so if they are a top 3 player. Hard to win championships by yourself

[tontoz]

I don't care about individual play. It's a team sport not golf. Going from champion to 2nd round is a lot different than conference finals to lottery. 1 guy can carry a team to a play in and should be expected to to do so if they are a top 3 player. Hard to win championships by yourself

So if Luka is such an "empty stats" player then how did they get to the wcf the year before?

[Phoenix]

I don't care about individual play. It's a team sport not golf. Going from champion to 2nd round is a lot different than conference finals to lottery. 1 guy can carry a team to a play in and should be expected to to do so if they are a top 3 player. Hard to win championships by yourself

If you don't care about individual play then he's no more or less responsible for how good or bad the Mavs are than the 12th man on the roster. Except you blame Luka for the Mavs not making the play-in, so you do care about individual play. This conversation shouldn't even concern you then, because if you don't care about individual play then by extension you shouldn't be ranking players period.

[Full Court]

So if Luka is such an "empty stats" player then how did they get to the wcf the year before?

Spencer Dinwiddie.



To be fair though, Luka seems like he's meshing a lot better with his teammates this year than he has in the past. Mavs might actually get somewhere this year.

[Doomsday Dallas]

Spencer Dinwiddie.


Brunson

[Xiao Yao You]

If you don't care about individual play then he's no more or less responsible for how good or bad the Mavs are than the 12th man on the roster. Except you blame Luka for the Mavs not making the play-in, so you do care about individual play. This conversation shouldn't even concern you then, because if you don't care about individual play then by extension you shouldn't be ranking players period.

top 3 players should be able to carry a bad team to the play-in. Not sure how much simpler I can put it. If Luka is alright with that than he's not someone I'd want to build around

[tontoz]

top 3 players should be able to carry a bad team to the play-in. Not sure how much simpler I can put it. If Luka is alright with that than he's not someone I'd want to build around


Luka isn't the one that got rid of 3 guys who averaged a combined total of 50 points in the wcf. Luka isn't the one who got fined $750k for tanking.

[Xiao Yao You]

Luka isn't the one that got rid of 3 guys who averaged a combined total of 50 points in the wcf. Luka isn't the one who got fined $750k for tanking.

he's the one that couldn't carry the team to the play-in

[tontoz]

he's the one that couldn't carry the team to the play-in


He's the one who carried his team to the wcf. His team didn't want to make the play in which you are too stupid to grasp.

[Xiao Yao You]

He's the one who carried his team to the wcf. His team didn't want to make the play in which you are too stupid to grasp.

they didn't want to make the playoff because they were in a huge hole because the top 3 player in the league put them there

[tontoz]

they didn't want to make the playoff because they were in a huge hole because the top 3 player in the league put them there


Right it was totally Luka's fault that Brunson/Dinwiddie/DFS were gone and Kleber was hurt. Cool story bro

[Xiao Yao You]

Right it was totally Luka's fault that Brunson/Dinwiddie/DFS were gone and Kleber was hurt. Cool story bro

not his fault. Top 3 players should be able to carry a team to the play-in

[tontoz]

not his fault. Top 3 players should be able to carry a team to the play-in


Not when they don't want to make the play in and lose their draft pick. :facepalm

He carried them to a top 5 seed 3 years in a row. That is a bit more important than making a play in the team doesn't want to make.

[Xiao Yao You]

Not when they don't want to make the play in and lose their draft pick. :facepalm

He carried them to a top 5 seed 3 years in a row. That is a bit more important than making a play in the team doesn't want to make.

if you say so. Winning is better than losing as far as I'm concerned

[tontoz]

if you say so. Winning is better than losing as far as I'm concerned

I am pretty sure the Mavs would rather have Lively then make a play in game.

[Xiao Yao You]

I am pretty sure the Mavs would rather have Lively then make a play in game.

just a play-in game with a top 3 player? Shouldn't you be expected to go further?

[tontoz]

just a play-in game with a top 3 player? Shouldn't you be expected to go further?

Not when the team got rid of 3 guys who averaged a combined 50 points in the WCF.

You should stick your nose back up Rudy's ass where it belongs. You are way out of your element talking about other teams you clearly know little about.

[Real Men Wear Green]

just a play-in game with a top 3 player? Shouldn't you be expected to go further?

It's weird how you refuse to understand what happened. It does not matter how good or bad a player is when his organization decides that they want to lose. Doncic played one quarter with Irving and the rest of the starters not playing for the Mavericks to earn a 750k fine from the league. This is documented fact. I'm not sure Doncic is a top 3 player but there's no question that he's a great player and he has had a deep playoff run before. If missing the playoffs proves he definitely isn't great did making the conference finals prove that he definitely is great? Neither position makes sense, that kind of analysis is just trolling. A great way to avoid thinking. The fair way to analyze a player is to actually analyze it. And Doncic does have flaws, he dominates the ball like no one ever before and plays bad defense. Certainly fair to hold bad defense against him as the reason why you don't think he's great. Also unreasonable given what he does offensively as a rebounder but demanding defense is understandable. But just judging him on winning or losing, I have to ask if you realize it's a team game? Jordan and Kareem may be the two greatest players of all time and they've had losing years at their physical peaks.

[Xiao Yao You]

Not when the team got rid of 3 guys who averaged a combined 50 points in the WCF.

You should stick your nose back up Rudy's ass where it belongs. You are way out of your element talking about other teams you clearly know little about.

what do I need to know? I know one guy can carry a bad team. If you're touted as a top 3 player but can't win games maybe you need to look in the mirror instead of making excuses

[tontoz]

what do I need to know? I know one guy can carry a bad team. If you're touted as a top 3 player but can't win games maybe you need to look in the mirror instead of making excuses

Once again use of the wrong usage of the word can't, as if they didn't have a top 5 seed the 3 previous years. :facepalm

while also ignoring that the team deliberately tanked, losing 9 of their last 11 so they could keep their draft pick :facepalm

[Xiao Yao You]

It's weird how you refuse to understand what happened. It does not matter how good or bad a player is when his organization decides that they want to lose. Doncic played one quarter with Irving and the rest of the starters not playing for the Mavericks to earn a 750k fine from the league. This is documented fact. I'm not sure Doncic is a top 3 player but there's no question that he's a great player and he has had a deep playoff run before. If missing the playoffs proves he definitely isn't great did making the conference finals prove that he definitely is great? Neither position makes sense, that kind of analysis is just trolling. A great way to avoid thinking. The fair way to analyze a player is to actually analyze it. And Doncic does have flaws, he dominates the ball like no one ever before and plays bad defense. Certainly fair to hold bad defense against him as the reason why you don't think he's great. Also unreasonable given what he does offensively as a rebounder but demanding defense is understandable. But just judging him on winning or losing, I have to ask if you realize it's a team game? Jordan and Kareem may be the two greatest players of all time and they've had losing years at their physical peaks.

The Bulls wanted to tank when MJ came back from his foot injury. He refused and willed them into the playoffs when only 6 teams made it still I believe. He put on one of the greatest shows I ever saw in a losing effort against one of the best teams ever with little help. Kareem obviously overrated. Where would have have been without Magic? You think the Mavs tank at the end of the year if Donic wins games earlier in the year? You can make all the excuses for him that you want but if you're going to tout him as a top 3 player he needs to be held accountable. Not sure why he gets a pass for the Mavs sucking?

[tontoz]

The Bulls wanted to tank when MJ came back from his foot injury. He refused and willed them into the playoffs when only 6 teams made it still I believe. He put on one of the greatest shows I ever saw in a losing effort against one of the best teams ever with little help. Kareem obviously overrated. Where would have have been without Magic? You think the Mavs tank at the end of the year if Donic wins games earlier in the year? You can make all the excuses for him that you want but if you're going to tout him as a top 3 player he needs to be held accountable. Not sure why he gets a pass for the Mavs sucking?


Once again you show your ignorance of basketball. Chicago wasn't at risk of losing their draft pick. Dallas would have lost their pick if they picked 11th or worse.

The finished only 2 games behind OKC for the last play in spot after losing 9 of their last 11. They could have easily made the play in if they wanted to.

[Xiao Yao You]

Once again you show your ignorance of basketball. Chicago wasn't at risk of losing their draft pick. Dallas would have lost their pick if they picked 11th or worse.

The finished only 2 games behind OKC for the last play in spot after losing 9 of their last 11. They could have easily made the play in if they wanted to.

maybe? We'll never know. Since they sucked all year long it's hard to predict them winning when they needed to. The Bulls lost a lottery pick by making the playoffs. Imagine Brad Daugherty with Jordan instead of Will Perdue

[Phoenix]

top 3 players should be able to carry a bad team to the play-in. Not sure how much simpler I can put it. If Luka is alright with that than he's not someone I'd want to build around

You're knee deep in 'reply for the sake of replying' drivel because, for the 4th time, I don't have Luka as a top 3 player. So why are you persistently using 'top 3' in your replies to me outside of sticking your fingers in your ears and being an idiot at this point?

[tontoz]

maybe? We'll never know. Since they sucked all year long it's hard to predict them winning when they needed to. The Bulls lost a lottery pick by making the playoffs. Imagine Brad Daugherty with Jordan instead of Will Perdue



So Dallas sucked all year long? Starting 23-17 sucks?


https://hosting.photobucket.com/albums/g195/tontoz/.highres/funny-pictures-shut-up-00l.jpg

[Phoenix]

I never realized how much of a moron this Xiao poster was until now. He/she/they is not someone I've really discussed this much ball with before, mainly because the one player he/she/they stans isn't worth this level of discussion.

[tpols]

what do I need to know? I know one guy can carry a bad team. If you're touted as a top 3 player but can't win games maybe you need to look in the mirror instead of making excuses

Luka didn't play bro. They sat him and tanked purposely. He's already led deep playoff teams and is proven in that regard. Kareem and Lebron have missed the playoffs too. Are they not great?

[Xiao Yao You]

So Dallas sucked all year long? Starting 23-17 sucks?


https://hosting.photobucket.com/albums/g195/tontoz/.highres/funny-pictures-shut-up-00l.jpg

without Brunson? How is that possible? Top 3 players can't win without other guys to carry their fat asses!

[Xiao Yao You]

Luka didn't play bro. They sat him and tanked purposely. He's already led deep playoff teams and is proven in that regard. Kareem and Lebron have missed the playoffs too. Are they not great?

did I say any of them weren't great? Top 3 players should be able to carry their teams. Pretty simple argument

[tontoz]

without Brunson? How is that possible? Top 3 players can't win without other guys to carry their fat asses!

What happened to "they sucked all year long"? :lol



https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/g195/tontoz/tenor.gif

[Xiao Yao You]

What happened to "they sucked all year long"? :lol



https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/g195/tontoz/tenor.gif

they sucked enough to tank. I don't follow them. Luka with his whining and flopping are a difficult watch

[tontoz]

they sucked enough to tank. I don't follow them. Luka with his whining and flopping are a difficult watch

That explains your ignorant opinions.

[Xiao Yao You]

That explains your ignorant opinions.

what is ignorant about thinking a so-called top 3 player should be able to carry a team? Pretty simple. If Luka doesn't feel the same way than he's not someone you want to be building a franchise around

[Phoenix]

did I say any of them weren't great? Top 3 players should be able to carry their teams. Pretty simple argument

Kareem had seasons in the mid 70's dropping 30/14/4/3 and missed the playoffs. Hell he won MVP in 75-76 missing the playoffs.

Now tell us he was empty stats and not a top 3 player in these cases....I and everyone else could use the laugh.

[tontoz]

what is ignorant about thinking a so-called top 3 player should be able to carry a team? Pretty simple. If Luka doesn't feel the same way than he's not someone you want to be building a franchise around

It is pretty hard to carry a team that lost 3 starters. Why don't you give me some examples of guys who carried their teams to the playoffs after losing 3 starters?

[tpols]

did I say any of them weren't great? Top 3 players should be able to carry their teams. Pretty simple argument

It's pretty silly argument since there have been top 5-10 players of all time to miss the playoffs while in their primes. Forget top 3 in any given year but top 3 in the history of the game. Luka been dominating in the playoffs even as a baby faced kid. We're not talking about somebody who misses them every year and puts up empty stats. He's already been in the WCF with mediocre help.

Outside of Jokic spots 2-5 have a lot of candidates.

[Phoenix]

It's pretty silly argument since there have been top 5-10 players of all time to miss the playoffs while in their primes. Forget top 3 in any given year but top 3 in the history of the game. Luka been dominating in the playoffs even as a baby faced kid. We're not talking about somebody who misses them every year and puts up empty stats. He's already been in the WCF with mediocre help.

Outside of Jokic spots 2-5 have a lot of candidates.

Exactly. After Joker, Embiid and Giannis Luka probably has the next best case for 4th at this time, or if you prefer Steph or KD nobody will laugh at you, but he's comfortably top 6 and the separation is miniscule. And Luka is a better playoff performer than Embiid.