How good would Nikoka Jokic have been in the '80s or '90s NBA

[Street Hunger]

Everyone likes to discuss how players from the 1980s or 1990s would have played in today's nba, but how about the reverse?

How would Nikola Jokic have played in the 1980s or 1990s NBA?

My guess is around the same as he does now. What do you think?

[Xiao Yao You]

Everyone likes to discuss how players from the 1980s or 1990s would have played in today's nba, but how about the reverse?

How would Nikola Jokic have played in the 1980s or 1990s NBA?

My guess is around the same as he does now. What do you think?

younger version of papa Sabonis

[plowking]

He'd be playing against more stationary bigs, exerting less energy on defence.

I assume maybe less assists, but he'd carve up. He'd be better. More of his deficiencies are covered up, while his skillset had never been seen before at that time.

[Xiao Yao You]

He'd be playing against more stationary bigs, exerting less energy on defence.

I assume maybe less assists, but he'd carve up. He'd be better. More of his deficiencies are covered up, while his skillset had never been seen before at that time.

it had. papa Sabonis

[elementally morale]

He'd be playing against more stationary bigs, exerting less energy on defence.

I assume maybe less assists, but he'd carve up. He'd be better. More of his deficiencies are covered up, while his skillset had never been seen before at that time.

Have to agree. He would be better.

[Phoenix]

He wouldn't have been the same player in the 80s and 90s, unless we're doing the 'take player X and teleport him to a prior era ignoring the inspirations and era context that made him what he is' thing.

[3ba11]

Magic and Bird are better versions of him in pretty much every area, and Jordan

So he wouldn't be in contention for best player in the league like he is now

[3ba11]

He'd be playing against more stationary bigs, exerting less energy on defence.




absurd

it takes far more energy to push hard against big bodies that don't have the ball yet, and battle for position or rebounds, than to defend a high-screen roll for a few seconds and then a big relax.. and the whole time on the screen-roll, there's zero physical contact with anyone.. no hard exertion of muscles and legs pushing hard to hold position.

the players that get a break defensively compared to today are the guards

[SATAN]

He wouldn't have played the same. I don't know why people ask these questions.

[Reggie43]

The obvious thing is he wouldnt look as good because they are a ton of competition at the Center and Power forward spots. Being defended by actual bigmen instead of tweeners that are allowed to be physical with him would make him less effective. Would still be Mvp caliber probably but it would be hard to stand out among all those great players.

[plowking]

absurd

it takes far more energy to push hard against big bodies that don't have the ball yet, and battle for position or rebounds, than to defend a high-screen roll for a few seconds and then a big relax.. and the whole time on the screen-roll, there's zero physical contact with anyone.. no hard exertion of muscles and legs pushing hard to hold position.

the players that get a break defensively compared to today are the guards

No. I'd rather physical than running up and down the court all the time.

Hence why today's players play less minutes. It is more taxing on the body than static BS physical gruelling down low.

[sdot_thadon]

He'd have still been good but not an mvp candidate year in year out. There was a handful of physical elite centers in the league and every team played a big front court back then. He'd lose a ton of the freedom he plays with now. With his IQ and passing its hard to believe he wouldn't still be a very good player tho.

[Xiao Yao You]

No. I'd rather physical than running up and down the court all the time.

Hence why today's players play less minutes. It is more taxing on the body than static BS physical gruelling down low.

after watching him chase Kessler up and down the court I'm guessing Jokic would prefer that too

[eliteballer]

He'd be playing against more stationary bigs, exerting less energy on defence.

I assume maybe less assists, but he'd carve up. He'd be better. More of his deficiencies are covered up, while his skillset had never been seen before at that time.

Horrible take. There would be a lot of bigger, stronger players. The pace in the 90's would be slower, half-court and more physical which would affect his offensive output.

He would still be great, but the way the league is setup now rewards him.

[eliteballer]

No. I'd rather physical than running up and down the court all the time.

Hence why today's players play less minutes. It is more taxing on the body than static BS physical gruelling down low.

:oldlol: You've obviously never played ball.

[elementally morale]

:oldlol: You've obviously never played ball.

I played organized basketball for lots and lots of years. Had a teammate who made it to the NBA. I happen to agree with plowking. It doesn't mean we are definitely right. However, it's a very much debatable question. Bigs in the 80s and 90s (as they were) would've had problems containing Jokic because he can take the ball away from the basket and is a great great passer. At the same time he is close to 7 feet and 300 pounds, very strong. If he doesn't have to deal with closing out on perimeter players due to endless switches, he would be a much more useful (not better, more useful) defender. Would he be the best center in the NBA in the 80s and 90s? Not sure. Maybe not. But he is a playmaker as well. So... I don't know. I think he would be better in that situation than he is now and at the same time not necessarily be the best player. (And if you train those bigs to play the current style of basketball... who knows. Talent is talent, height is height, mass is mass. In all eras.

[plowking]

:oldlol: You've obviously never played ball.

I have. Have you played higher level ball than me? Maybe.

I played in the league one level below NBL 10 plus years ago. I think that is high enough to make an assessment.

[Micku]

Horrible take. There would be a lot of bigger, stronger players. The pace in the 90's would be slower, half-court and more physical which would affect his offensive output.

He would still be great, but the way the league is setup now rewards him.

The league today awards every offensive players now. Due to the spacing and the rules, all players have a bonus to their stats.

With Jokic, I don't think a coach would have him initiate the offense like he does now. He plays like a bigger version of Larry Bird to me. But I don't know if they are going to play him like that. If he stretches a big out, he'll be deadly and screw up the defense of the 90s. Especially out to the 3pt line, but I don't think coaches back then would allow him to play like that. In the paint, I think he'll have a tougher time to score than now due to the lack of spacing. You could kind'a see it with Min having Kat and Gobert. He's good enough to score on anybody one on one tho. His touch, footwork, and b-ball iq is too good. Not to mention his play making. I think his assists will go down due to the lack of spacing and shooting from the 3, but idk for sure. He's amazing at finding players. So, as long as they move without the ball, he'll find them.

He'll still be great. I just don't think he'll get as much triple-doubles or be as efficient. The rules back then allow you to be more physical with him, but the dude is really strong anyway. There'll just be more big bodies you can throw at him and the lack of spacing. He probably wouldn't play the same.

The nutrition and training would probably be different too. He'll adjust. He's a great player. I think great players are transcendent no matter the era.

[Reggie43]

Do you guys think he will have an easier time guarding Olajuwon, Shaq, Robinson etc fulltime compared to what he has to deal with now?

[Xiao Yao You]

Do you guys think he will have an easier time guarding Olajuwon, Shaq, Robinson etc fulltime compared to what he has to deal with now?

yep certainly

[Axe]

Do you guys think he will have an easier time guarding Olajuwon, Shaq, Robinson etc fulltime compared to what he has to deal with now?
He will have an easier time dealing with them since he isn't a tall and slow role player.

[Micku]

Do you guys think he will have an easier time guarding Olajuwon, Shaq, Robinson etc fulltime compared to what he has to deal with now?

It's much harder to play defense now compared to back then. But they are great players. They are going to get theirs.

[Reggie43]

It's much harder to play defense now compared to back then. But they are great players. They are going to get theirs.

Yeah its harder but I wouldnt want Shaq, Malone, Barkley etc banging on me in a seven game series. The wear and tear from that alone could also effect you on offense.

Defensively imagine a team like the Knicks having the luxury of putting Mason on him while Oakley and Ewing wait on the helpside.

[NBAGOAT]

Yeah its harder but I wouldnt want Shaq, Malone, Barkley etc banging on me in a seven game series. The wear and tear from that alone could also effect you on offense.

Defensively imagine a team like the Knicks having the luxury of putting Mason on him while Oakley and Ewing wait on the helpside.

their is much less helpside than you're thinking with denver's shooting/spacing around him and jokic's passing abiity. jokic's passing is scarier than his scoring most likely and any type of soft double is asking for a porter open 3 or gordon layup both very efficient shots. There really isnt any easy answer on defense for his skillset with the team around him. I didnt even add imagine an average 90s big not mason getting put in more than 10 pnrs a game with mostly murray or gordon and having to guard jokic at the 3pt line etc. They're helpless. 90s/00s teams had no answer for shaq either when he had shooting he never had shooting around him like jokic does or was able to pass like him.

[NBAGOAT]

this video breaks down just jokic's scoring game well. There really hasnt been anyone like him in any era https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kuIvEgtOnos

[Micku]

their is much less helpside than you're thinking with denver's shooting/spacing around him and jokic's passing abiity. jokic's passing is scarier than his scoring most likely and any type of soft double is asking for a porter open 3 or gordon layup both very efficient shots. There really isnt any easy answer on defense for his skillset with the team around him. I didnt even add imagine an average 90s big not mason getting put in more than 10 pnrs a game with mostly murray or gordon and having to guard jokic at the 3pt line etc. They're helpless. 90s/00s teams had no answer for shaq either when he had shooting he never had shooting around him like jokic does or was able to pass like him.

Yeah, he's too skilled with the playmaking. You can't double him because of it. I think he is the best passer in the game rn, and one of the best of all time. And Jokic can come off screens too like a guard and do a catch and shoot like he did against AD. Jokic is too skilled to be stop too. He could beat you in several different ways.

[Reggie43]

Diffrent defensive rules means it would be easier to defend Jokic too and no freedom of movement rules plus handchecking means those shooters would be less effective

[NBAGOAT]

Yeah, he's too skilled with the playmaking. You can't double him because of it. I think he is the best passer in the game rn, and one of the best of all time. And Jokic can come off screens too like a guard and do a catch and shoot like he did against AD. Jokic is too skilled to be stop too. He could beat you in several different ways.

yea video pointed out bigs were having so much trouble guarding him offball since they're just not good at navigating screens and he was coming off screens getting open jumpers like a wing. teams dont play big vs denver for a reason. Going small is best way to attack him on defense and size also means less versatility. you dont want say a slow big guarding jamal murray on switches

[NuggetsFan]

Do you guys think he will have an easier time guarding Olajuwon, Shaq, Robinson etc fulltime compared to what he has to deal with now?

Yeah. Jokic's defense gets underrated. The only reason why he's considered a bad/average defensive player is because other team target him in the pick and roll and get the switch. It's a gameplan that the entire league does. Which is why smallball is so popular. When you have legitimate big's you give up alot defensively. You even see it with the elite defenders like Gobert/Embiid come playoff time. Forget the 80's and 90's even in the early 00's teams didn't do that. I remember a team like PHX would occasionally do it to a player like Nene and he'd look absolutely lost and it would be a easy bucket. Come playoff time that can happen 15+ times a game. Jokic has great post defense/great size and strength. Where he struggles is with lateral quickness/vertical explosion near the rim. The rules nowadays are all focused on making it easier to score for the guards. Guarding the rim is about 1000x easier when your perimeter defenders can handcheck and actually play defense. Basically any guard nowadays can get to the rim if he wants. It used to actually be a difficult task back than.

[NBAGOAT]

Diffrent defensive rules means it would be easier to defend Jokic too and no freedom of movement rules plus handchecking means those shooters would be less effective

jokic gets to the foul line more in the 90s too, that's the one area he's not elite rn. He would torch defenses who have to send hard double teams if they dont want their guy cooked 1v1. handchecking doesnt affect guys spotting up for 3s. Porter and kcp are mostly taking spot ups. Even with rule changes, denver's offense is elite and there arent good answers for them.

most 90's team just have no answers guarding a pnr with the center as a ball handler and the screener being a 40% 3pt shooter or even someone as versatile as aaron gordon. they're used to leaving the screener who's usually a big wide open for a 18fter, you cant guard the pnr that way anymore. jamal murray shot 40% on pull up 3's last year and he's not the main option when denver runs pnr. drop defense is ineffective vs denver with those 2's jump shooting

[NuggetsFan]

I think Jokic is on the list of players that the era doesn't really matter. His basketball IQ/skill/size would destroy any era. If he played in the 80's/90's you can add an extra 10-20 pounds to his frame. The only reason why he lost that weight is because of the things he's required to do nowadays that wouldn't exist back than. It's not like Jokic was a natural 3 point shooter either. He didn't come into the league like say a Wemby. It's something he added to his game. He'd absolutely be facing better defenders but I don't think it's that simple. Some of the players who have defended him the best have been much smaller. P.J Tucker in that Philly game comes to mind. His can pass the ball from anywhere. That's pure basketball IQ. It's happening in any era. He wouldn't average 10 dimes a game but it'd still be elite. His touch around the basket is probably his most elite skill and that's getting utilized more back than than it is today.

I'm not even sure you can say he's playing in the era the best suits him. The league is completely geared towards guards/wings. Right off the bat he's getting more minutes/bigger role early. He's not getting sat for Nurkic because of modern offense's. Teams would be way more eager to take advantage of skill around the basket than they were in this era. The schemes nowadays benefits players stats for sure but I'm not completely sold that a 7 footer basically running your entire offense from the post, as a P&R handler/roller, doing constant dribble hand offs isn't very difficult and they wouldn't see certain parts of there game improve quite abit with a less responsibility.

[Reggie43]

jokic gets to the foul line more in the 90s too, that's the one area he's not elite rn. He would torch defenses who have to send hard double teams if they dont want their guy cooked 1v1. handchecking doesnt affect guys spotting up for 3s. Porter and kcp are mostly taking spot ups. Even with rule changes, denver's offense is elite and there arent good answers for them.

most 90's team just have no answers guarding a pnr with the center as a ball handler and the screener being a 40% 3pt shooter or even someone as versatile as aaron gordon. they're used to leaving the screener who's usually a big wide open for a 18fter, you cant guard the pnr that way anymore. jamal murray shot 40% on pull up 3's last year and he's not the main option when denver runs pnr. drop defense is ineffective vs denver with those 2's jump shooting

Like I said different defensive rules would have made those guys less effective and their percentages would drop. No one is getting to the paint as easy as now without getting hit. The funny thing is Denver could play a similar way but not win anything because they would be teams much better than them.

[NBAGOAT]

Like I said different defensive rules would have made those guys less effective and their percentages would drop. No one is getting to the paint as easy as now without getting hit. The funny thing is Denver could play a similar way but not win anything because they would be teams much better than them.

You said but you havent supported your own points or challenged anyone else's. You just say like other people for every modern player they be less effective because of rules. Well who's more effective in a previous era then there has to be some star who benefits? I think it's obvious jokic is a better defender in a previous era and you havent disputed that at all. Defense is the only reason he doesnt have a top 5 peak.

denver wouldnt win because of talent mostly on the defensive side. They're not a very talented team(no bench jokic/murray only all star caliber players). I can still be confident they're the best offense many years in the 90s if you transport their team to the 90s with their modern knowledge of schemes how plus productive the 3pt shot is etc. yes ik MJ played in that era but he's the only one i think is better than jokic offensively. If Karl Malone can lead some of the best offenses in the league with just stockton and role guys, jokic can do better with this denver team.

[Reggie43]

You said but you havent supported your own points or challenged anyone else's. You just say like other people for every modern player they be less effective because of rules. Well who's more effective in a previous era then there has to be some star who benefits? I think it's obvious jokic is a better defender in a previous era and you havent disputed that at all. Defense is the only reason he doesnt have a top 5 peak.

denver wouldnt win because of talent mostly on the defensive side. They're not a very talented team(no bench jokic/murray only all star caliber players). I can still be confident they're the best offense many years in the 90s if you transport their team to the 90s with their modern knowledge of schemes how plus productive the 3pt shot is etc. yes ik MJ played in that era but he's the only one i think is better than jokic offensively. If Karl Malone can lead some of the best offenses in the league with just stockton and role guys, jokic can do better with this denver team.

I already said Jokic would be Mvp caliber but how good do you think he would be? Better than peak Barkley?

[NBAGOAT]

I already said Jokic would be Mvp caliber but how good do you think he would be? Better than peak Barkley?

yep not even really too debatable for me, they're in different tiers imo. Barkley is a worse defender and worse passer. Might be a bit better at scoring but thats it. when he's had bad teams, barkley can carry them to like .500, jokic carried a trash team to 48 wins +2srs last year. Jordan/Hakeem are the only ones i'm taking over jokic. Drob isnt good enough offensively for me. Realgm had jokic's 2022 as the 16th best peak likely even a little better last year, barkley was around 30th.