Let's be honest, a lot of classic hip-hop is overrated.

[Baller234]

i love rap. grew up on rap. still have over 10,000 rap songs in my apple music library.

a lot of it was trash, even the stuff we often revere and look back fondly upon. i am mostly talking the gangsta and gritty rap era from the early 90's and onwards.


- lots of albums and songs were dumbed down by weed carriers and money men who could barely rap.

- too many rappers who weren't good enough to go solo went solo.

- all the same rappers started working with all the same producers, causing everyone to sound the same.

- lyrical content is too vulgar and inappropriate to play at parties or functions where elderly people, classy people or young children are present.

- lyrical content is shallow and often glorifies ignorance.


i can honestly say that even as someone who genuinely loves rap, even the best that time period has to offer does not hold a candle to the best that other genres like rock, pop and r&b had to offer. sometimes you'll hear some edgelord be like "pfttt, 2pac was the best musical artist of all time"... and as someone who is a 2pac fan i honestly want to slap this person.

[SATAN]

Unblocking you for this one thread. :lol


i love rap. grew up on rap. still have over 10,000 rap songs in my apple music library.

a lot of it was trash, even the stuff we often revere and look back fondly upon. i am mostly talking the gangsta and gritty rap era from the early 90's and onwards.


- lots of albums and songs were dumbed down by weed carriers and money men who could barely rap.

- too many rappers who weren't good enough to go solo went solo.

- all the same rappers started working with all the same producers, causing everyone to sound the same.

- lyrical content is too vulgar and inappropriate to play at parties or functions where elderly people, classy people or young children are present.

- lyrical content is shallow and often glorifies ignorance.

It's still the same now only more dumbed down...




sometimes you'll hear some edgelord be like "pfttt, 2pac was the best musical artist of all time"... and as someone who is a 2pac fan i honestly want to slap this person.

Good.

Sounds like you're growing out of love with it. It happens and it's ok. You get older and mellow out. It's too simple for me these days tbh and the way some people think some lyrics are the most clever shit ever makes me embarrassed for them now. The production is fairly simple unless you're clueless to it all, the chord changes simple etc. I don't actively dislike it now or anything but have gone from wanting to know every single thing being released to not giving a shit when a friend tells me about a new album from a group I once regularly listened to. I thought Lil Wayne and Drake were an absolute joke before my interest in the scene began to weaken. Was strange seeing people treating these guys who can't make music for shit like icons. Just sad.

And while we are talking about music, Sweet Child of Mine is the most overrated song of all time.

Hotel California>>>Sweet Child of Mine

And Mozart was better at writing music than any rock band...

[warriorfan]

West coast rap had Death Row. Up north they had e-40, 2 short, richie rich, mac dre, Rappin 4 tay. Drake ripped off 4tay not too long ago and supposedly gave him 100 grand for it. Bay area rap scene was going strong in the 90’s.

I wasn’t as big into East Coast, but they had Biggie and Nas.


While music is ultimately subjective, i’m going to have to disagree. Early to mid 90’s were amazing for rap.

I need to give more thought but I wanna say later 2000’s is when stuff declined in my opinion. Lil Wayne, Drake, Rick Ross. Miss me with that cheesy shit.

the 2000’s had a somewhat rough patch for bay area rap too. mainly after mac dre got shot in kansas city. They started signing tons of low quality guys and producing bad albums under the thizznation mac dre label and used him as branding to sell sub quality albums. This went on for a number of years and ultimately ended when all of the thizznation guys ended up going to jail for drug charges . e40 got a little out there with some of the albums he released during this period as well.

[diamenz]

- lots of albums and songs were dumbed down by weed carriers and money men who could barely rap.

- too many rappers who weren't good enough to go solo went solo.

- all the same rappers started working with all the same producers, causing everyone to sound the same.

- lyrical content is too vulgar and inappropriate to play at parties or functions where elderly people, classy people or young children are present.

- lyrical content is shallow and often glorifies ignorance.




this describes no limit records to a tee.

[fsvr54]

90s hip hop is among the highest forms of music to ever exist

[highwhey]

i love rap. grew up on rap. still have over 10,000 rap songs in my apple music library.

a lot of it was trash, even the stuff we often revere and look back fondly upon. i am mostly talking the gangsta and gritty rap era from the early 90's and onwards.


- lots of albums and songs were dumbed down by weed carriers and money men who could barely rap.

- too many rappers who weren't good enough to go solo went solo.

- all the same rappers started working with all the same producers, causing everyone to sound the same.

- lyrical content is too vulgar and inappropriate to play at parties or functions where elderly people, classy people or young children are present.

- lyrical content is shallow and often glorifies ignorance.


i can honestly say that even as someone who genuinely loves rap, even the best that time period has to offer does not hold a candle to the best that other genres like rock, pop and r&b had to offer. sometimes you'll hear some edgelord be like "pfttt, 2pac was the best musical artist of all time"... and as someone who is a 2pac fan i honestly want to slap this person.

just when you think OP can't say dumber shit, he goes and makes this thread :roll:


as if the beatles and other early rock groups didn't make the most basic shit either. oh wow, another song about drugs and sex...wow how amazing so groundbreaking.



"i want to hold your hand" "please somebody haaaaaalpppp" "we alll livee in a yellow submarine"

*white people*

https://media2.giphy.com/media/ZUwjT4TrkElu8/giphy.gif

[SATAN]

Stop upsetting the Drake fans guys. :eek:

[TheMan]

Rap and Hip Hop are overrated as a whole genre TBH.

I say this as someone who grew up on rock (metal especially) but I liked Run DMC, Beastie Boys, Grandmaster Flash and the Furious Five, Snoop, Dre, Ice Cube, NWA etc.

[JohnnySic]

Rap/hip hop's heyday was '88-'94. Everything beyond that sucked, save for a few blips here and there.

PS - I couldn't name a Drake song if my life depended on it. I'm not convinced there actually is one.

[RRR3]

Baller234 and Satan embarrasing themselves in this thread :facepalm

Even if you think 2Pac and Biggie are overrated (both objectively phenomenal artists regardless), guys like Big L and Big Pun were absolutely brilliant. Wu-Tang Clan and Nas as well.

[Axe]

Personal fave. Not too mainstream as well.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/4/4a/Oftheheart_pmdawn.jpg

[diamenz]

Baller234 and Satan embarrasing themselves in this thread :facepalm

Even if you think 2Pac and Biggie are overrated (both objectively phenomenal artists regardless), guys like Big L and Big Pun were absolutely brilliant. Wu-Tang Clan and Nas as well.

there was something for everyone in the nineties rap game. aside from the three goats in pac, nas & big, there was much diversity in terms of styles and production. there's simply way to many above average and top tier artists coming out of that era with literally hundreds of timeless hits to boot. rap held it's own alongside other genres in that regard.

[SATAN]

Baller234 and Satan embarrasing themselves in this thread :facepalm

Even if you think 2Pac and Biggie are overrated (both objectively phenomenal artists regardless), guys like Big L and Big Pun were absolutely brilliant. Wu-Tang Clan and Nas as well.

What I said isn't embarrassing at all. It's mostly a young man's game. Trying to "be down" in your 40s is ****ing stupid unless you are in the industry. I still like KRS, Redman etc but don't go out of my way to hear it since there's literally a trillion other things to do instead. Rap became so ****ing mainstream and accepted. Not that it shouldn't be accepted but it's certainly old news being peddled by majors for reasons I won't go into. Anyway, you grow up and things change a bit. I know you are younger than I. Baller was right about the ignorance although there are also good things to be found. I remember seeing what kind of people were suddenly "into hip-hop" once Eminem blew up. Strange. It hasn't changed much since. "Urban" lolol. Jack Harlow. Wow. :lol

[RRR3]

What I said isn't embarrassing at all. It's mostly a young man's game. Trying to "be down" in your 40s is ****ing stupid unless you are in the industry. I still like KRS, Redman etc but don't go out of my way to hear it since there's literally a trillion other things to do instead. Rap became so ****ing mainstream and accepted. Not that it shouldn't be accepted but it's certainly old news being peddled by majors for reasons I won't go into. Anyway, you grow up and things change a bit. I know you are younger than I. Baller was right about the ignorance although there are also good things to be found. I remember seeing what kind of people were suddenly "into hip-hop" once Eminem blew up. Strange. It hasn't changed much since. "Urban" lolol. Jack Harlow. Wow. :lol
Popular music in general has gotten worse, it's hardly exclusive to rap. Saying Mozart wrote better stuff than any rock band as if that's a fact is also pretty comical. Mozart certainly never even imagined music sounding the way Jimi Hendrix could concieve of it sounding. Few have even to this day to be fair.

[SATAN]

Popular music in general has gotten worse, it's hardly exclusive to rap. Saying Mozart wrote better stuff than any rock band as if that's a fact is also pretty comical. Mozart certainly never even imagined music sounding the way Jimi Hendrix could concieve of it sounding. Few have even to this day to be fair.

I wonder why...

[RRR3]

I wonder why...
What? What are you even talking about? Go back to listening to chamber music

[SATAN]

I'm in the mood for jazz actually but thanks...

[Baller234]

this describes no limit records to a tee.

it applies to everyone really i think.

everyone got a solo album. all the wu tang members. all the death row affiliates. all the ruff ryder affiliates. all the bad boy affiliates. all the roc affiliates. all the lox members. the mobb deep guys. all the g unit members. all the dip set members, etc. etc. etc. the list goes on and on. a lot of these guys were good for a 16 and that was it. some of them were average at best to begin with. yet they kept flooding the market with TRASH.

[diamenz]

it applies to everyone really i think.

everyone got a solo album. all the wu tang members. all the death row affiliates. all the ruff ryder affiliates. all the bad boy affiliates. all the roc affiliates. all the lox members. the mobb deep guys. all the g unit members. all the dip set members, etc. etc. etc. the list goes on and on. a lot of these guys were good for a 16 and that was it. some of them were average at best to begin with. yet they kept flooding the market with TRASH.

that's true. can't blame em though. record labels see potential due to name affiliation and those young cats just wanna get money (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D8rG_2ed1wg). it did flood the market with some trash though fo sho.

...but just because there's expansion teams doesn't mean there's not high end talent and competition in the league.

[Overdrive]

And Mozart was better at writing music than any rock band...

No. Mozart as great as he was, was pretty limited by his era in what he could do as an composer.
There are definately rock bands that broke more barriers as writers than he did.

[Baller234]

that's true. can't blame em though. record labels see potential due to name affiliation and those young cats just wanna get money (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D8rG_2ed1wg). it did flood the market with some trash though fo sho.

...but just because there's expansion teams doesn't mean there's not high end talent and competition in the league.

but even the high end stuff was littered with trash. albums became glorified showcases for the label's entire roster of talent.

and like i said even a lot of the good stuff that came out is weighed down by being so shallow and unnecessarily vulgar. will smith is really the only big time rapper i can think of that had a run on top during that era without being dirty or explicit, and even he was clowned by fans. meanwhile you can play "gettin jiggy with it" in ANY setting and people get down to it cause it's a timeless hit.

[Overdrive]

but even the high end stuff was littered with trash. albums became glorified showcases for the label's entire roster of talent.

and like i said even a lot of the good stuff that came out is weighed down by being so shallow and unnecessarily vulgar. will smith is really the only big time rapper i can think of that had a run on top during that era without being dirty or explicit, and even he was clowned by fans. meanwhile you can play "gettin jiggy with it" in ANY setting and people get down to it cause it's a timeless hit.

Pretty sure "Return of the Boom Bap" for example doesn't have a parental advisory and rarely uses foul language if any, but I agree alot of genre classics are pretty shallow and the albums are full of filler material.

In all fairness though: Two of the most sucessful rock bands who experienced some hype the past few years are Queen and the Beatles due to movies and documentaries.

I doubt most people could sit through a whole album by them if I took one randomly from the shelf. Most albus contain more filler material than hits or good songs. Part of it is that labels always used to pushed artists to produce albums. They sold singles first and foremost and made people by the albums by liking the singles.

[tpols]

Rap as a whole is a very negative genre of music. There's incredibly impressive talent in the rhyming and word play ability some of the top talent had but it always boiled down to violence, materialism, and fornication. Not good for mind or soul to listen to.

A lot of Rock was just as bad. Talking about the same things, very aggressive and violent white boys head banging trying to hype themselves up, the whole genre littered with drug abuse and sin.

It's rare you find a clean soul in the music industry. Even guys who sung love songs were on some wild shit if you look into their history.

[SATAN]

There are definately rock bands that broke more barriers as writers than he did.

False.

[SATAN]

It's rare you find a clean soul in the music industry. Even guys who sung love songs were on some wild shit if you look into their history.

There are no clean souls in this place regardless of profession.

[RRR3]

False.
Black Sabbath invented a genre of music. Mozart did not.

[SATAN]

Black Sabbath invented a genre of music. Mozart did not.

Most overrated band of all time.

[RRR3]

Most overrated band of all time.
Not even close to being true, they are significantly less popular than bands like Led Zeppelin, AC/DC, etc. who didn't have half the influence. Stick to basketball champ.

[SATAN]

Not even close to being true

I forgot Guns N' Roses

[SATAN]

Honestly it's funny seeing these guys try to lecture people who have worked in the music in industry for decades...about music.

Thanks for playing. Too easy. :pimp:

[RRR3]

Honestly it's funny seeing these guys try to lecture people who have worked in the music in industry for decades...about music.

Thanks for playing. Too easy. :pimp:
Hurr durr I worked in da industree so i know muzik durr

[SATAN]

I doubt you've ever written a song in your life, much less one that people will pay money for. Or worked in a studio. Or performed live. Or know what it even takes to put yourself out there in such an industry.

I don't tell you what books should be in the library. Stop it. :rolleyes:

[SATAN]

I'll be siding with Chewing for now on...

[RRR3]

I'll be siding with Chewing for now on...
So your opposition to fascism is just superficial? :facepalm

[Patrick Chewing]

I'll be siding with Chewing for now on...

https://i.makeagif.com/media/7-24-2015/X6znRG.gif

[Baller234]

Rap as a whole is a very negative genre of music. There's incredibly impressive talent in the rhyming and word play ability some of the top talent had but it always boiled down to violence, materialism, and fornication. Not good for mind or soul to listen to.

A lot of Rock was just as bad. Talking about the same things, very aggressive and violent white boys head banging trying to hype themselves up, the whole genre littered with drug abuse and sin.

It's rare you find a clean soul in the music industry. Even guys who sung love songs were on some wild shit if you look into their history.

i could care less about their personal lives. pretty sure i would probably hate most of my favorite artists lol. really just talking about the music in general.

there is a difference between "aggressive" music and music that willingly glorifies ignorance and criminality. it's not so much that there are songs about being a criminal, it's that the songs are about the benefits of being a criminal and how being a criminal is cool. a lot of these rappers preach a "money by any means" mentality.

[tpols]

i could care less about their personal lives. pretty sure i would probably hate most of my favorite artists lol. really just talking about the music in general.

there is a difference between "aggressive" music and music that willingly glorifies ignorance and criminality. it's not so much that there are songs about being a criminal, it's that the songs are about the benefits of being a criminal and how being a criminal is cool. a lot of these rappers preach a "money by any means" mentality.

Rock stars constantly sung about criminal shit and drug abuse. They're not quite as bad as rappers but there isn't a huge difference.

[tpols]

I mean they were on some real wierdo shit.:lol


https://youtu.be/gdSWaIvyQ3o?si=YQ5ZkcVa8v-bA7De

[Overdrive]

I doubt you've ever written a song in your life, much less one that people will pay money for. Or worked in a studio. Or performed live. Or know what it even takes to put yourself out there in such an industry.

I don't tell you what books should be in the library. Stop it. :rolleyes:

You worked in a studio? Great. Did you actually work on material? Working in a studio could mean you cleaned the toilettes after Rick Rubin took a shit, could mean you were there to set up gear or you actually worked on music. But it doesn't really tell us anything.

Aside from that I wrote(and to an lesser extent still write) songs, I gigged, I own gear en masse. I live in the capitol of classical music and education on it is mandatory from the age of 10.

You cannot give me any counter argument aside from "Hurr durr I plugged cables into amps for some random studio and once wrote a ballad in Amaj".

Mozart was absolutely restricted in what he was allowed to do. Is he a greater musical mind than probably almost anyone who ever created music? Maybe and most probably.

Still my points stands. As a writer he definately was more limited than let's say Robert Fripp. That doesn't make Fripp better or greater than Mozart. It just means that Fripp can and could write more groundbreaking music than Mozart could do relative to their pears.

[SATAN]

You worked in a studio? Great. Did you actually work on material?

Yes. Many albums I have contributed to are available for you to purchase. And no, I won't put my identity out there on a forum full of pyschos.


Working in a studio could mean you cleaned the toilettes after Rick Rubin took a shit, could mean you were there to set up gear or you actually worked on music. But it doesn't really tell us anything.

I wasn't even talking to you actually and your comment is pointless.



Aside from that I wrote(and to an lesser extent still write) songs, I gigged, I own gear en masse. I live in the capitol of classical music and education on it is mandatory from the age of 10.

Want a cookie?


You cannot give me any counter argument aside from "Hurr durr I plugged cables into amps for some random studio and once wrote a ballad in Amaj".


You aren't saying anything relevant and I don't care about your shitty rock band.

[warriorfan]

:roll:

[Overdrive]

Yes. Many albums I have contributed to are available for you to purchase. And no, I won't put my identity out there on a forum full of pyschos.



I wasn't even talking to you actually and your comment is pointless.




Want a cookie?




You aren't saying anything relevant and I don't care about your shitty rock band.

So cleaning toilettes it is.

[SATAN]

Maybe it's hard for you to believe because you're not very good. I don't care either way. Too many insecure people and actors in the industry.

[Overdrive]

Maybe it's hard for you to believe because you're not very good. I don't care either way. Too many insecure people and actors in the industry.

It's not hard to believe, there are enough people in the business, it just doesn't have any merit if it's the only thing that backs up your claim.

"Trust me I'm an expert" isn't anything convincing on the internet. You don't have to give your identity away nor do I exactly care what you worked as. I've been around in the scene here for quite some time and know my fair share of music business people. Not on the scale the US has to offer but still. I know how most are and that makes it even more funny:

You back your stance why your take stands by saying you worked in the industry while calling most people there being full of shit, while you can't even form an argument around your very hot take that Mozart is basically > Guns n Roses. Maybe if you're a tad selfaware you'd see that you share that very same traits you go on about the "industry".

So give me your expertise on what makes KV331(all 3 movements) a better written musical piece than Lizard(all 4 movements) especially in the climate of the musical context of their time.

[SATAN]

You're really hung up on the Mozart and Guns N' Roses comments huh? :roll: :facepalm

Look, I'm sorry if playing the intro to Sweet Child of Mine during school assembly and talking to the guys about gear at the store was your crowning musical achievement but I don't care. See how that works? You're doing everything you want to criticize me for while trying to start some corny debate that YOU KNOW will go nowhere due to the nature of the topic. I simply don't care enough. Maybe once upon a time, but not now.

I'm probably a better person than you in general btw...

[Overdrive]

You're really hung up on the Mozart and Guns N' Roses comments huh? :roll: :facepalm

Look, I'm sorry if playing the intro to Sweet Child of Mine during school assembly and talking to the guys about gear at the store was your crowning musical achievement but I don't care. See how that works? You're doing everything you want to criticize me for while trying to start some corny debate that YOU KNOW will go nowhere due to the nature of the topic. I simply don't care enough. Maybe once upon a time, but not now.

I'm probably a better person than you in general btw...

Sure dude. Especially the last sentence.

Of course you don't care. That's why you bring a lame as band like GnR into a topic about rap profanity and simplicity while not connecting them to rap, but via the fn Eagles to Mozart.

Sure you can drop a point like that, but of course your general sentiment about Mozart and rock songwriting can open a serious debate that's neither corny nor doesn't lead to nowhere. Maybe you don't care but why then even drop such takes in a music topic? To show that you're knowledgeable in the field? To give you a feeling of grandeur? You think you're a good person doing exactly that riding unprovoked attacks while I at first did nothing, but raise a point contrary to your statement?

Either you're trolling or you don't even grasp how you come across. Most people on ish I guess would applaud this behaviour, because this place is full of trolls who never contribute any serious takes on any topic at hand, but why leave a long as post here then in the first place?

If you don't want to discuss anything usually a forum is the wrong place to post. A blog might be more suited for you.

[warriorfan]

Can someone get Satan a napkin? He has jizz all over his face again.

[Baller234]

Rock stars constantly sung about criminal shit and drug abuse. They're not quite as bad as rappers but there isn't a huge difference.

uh, i would say there's a huge difference.

"juicy" is one of the most popular rap songs ever. at the beginning of the song, biggie berates the people who used to call the cops on him while he was selling crack in front of their home. it is framed in such a way that we the audience are meant to sympathize with him, thus setting the tone for his rags to riches story.

[SATAN]

Is this guy still crying about Guns N' Roses? :roll:

Imagine being so offended over being told rock music has simplistic composition.

Holy shit go practice scales or something. Or better yet, write a song worth paying any attention to. :oldlol:

[SATAN]

Let me know if you need any help...

[ILLsmak]

dude when I saw Triumph vid on TV, it changed my understanding of lyricism. I liked 'classic rock,' and honestly a lot of types of music. I really enjoyed the poetry of, say, Ian Anderson of Jethro Tull, but the stuff Wu Tang was doing was just different. There is a lot of rap that is like that.


It really depends on what you mean by classic, though. There are def overrated people and overrated songs, but the emotional rawness of some of the old songs is also tough. Rap is like black folk, as I've said. I'm a big fan of folk. haha dudes wanna talk about rock v classical in complexity, how about the battle folk v classical. It's funny to watch people play themselves.

There is a separation of lyrics and music, even though both are musical. Folk ballads predate a lot of things and some of them are absolute bangers with dumb poetic technique, imo, not even seen in the writers of the time. Peter Bellamy did a bunch of recordings of Kipling's work as folk songs, and the way he 'hears' them and presents them is not how I hear them, but it's amazing.

That's one of the things rap really taught me: delivery. But there are a LOT of people who are off the wall nuts in terms of lyrical content and those beatz, too. I wouldn't consider them classic, tho. I think classic is like 'old skool.' When people really started pushing the limits of writing in rap in the 90s, then it became worthy as an art form. I respect old stuff for culture, but it's just not the same.

One interesting note, tying everything together: most people agree Frank Zappa is a genius composer. He obviously wrote troll lyrics, but the sound complexity is much lower than good rap. The music of speech is its own thing. Most people who listen to rap don't understand the voice is being used as an instrument. They think the instruments are the beat. The beat is just... the beat.

But until the mid 90s, I can't say people were making high art in most cases. They really started. It blows my mind how some people can listen to rap and be like yeah that's not interesting. I think people have a bias or they don't really understand how they are manipulating syntax and using literary techniques, but like screwing and chopping them at the same time. It really is next level in a lot of cases. But nah in general they weren't doing that in 'classic' stuff.

also obligatory lol at "I'm prol a better person than you in general."

PEACE KIDS.

-Smak

[SATAN]

Imagine thinking writing lyrics and rapping is hard. :oldlol:

You either have it or you don't. :confusedshrug:

[ILLsmak]

Imagine thinking writing lyrics and rapping is hard. :oldlol:

You either have it or you don't. :confusedshrug:

Same w/ other music, tho, the best it all comes at once.

Look at Stack Bundles, post a clip of you rapping this and this isn't even dude going all in. Infact, I will post vids of people not rapping fast that I bet you cannot match due to the complexity of sound.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AWAPRrn3Oaw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kyIc0ZBYXu0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=njCjDn_N3xs

practice that shit in the mirror. Post even 15-20 sec of any of those songs, or record it yourself and listen to how empty it sounds.

-Smak