In his 30's, Lebron didn't play @ MVP level (no MVP) & not good defender (no all-D)

[3ba11]

How can he be considered for goat when he wasn't MVP-level or good defender for his entire 30's and half his chips?

Otoh, the goat was MVP and first team all-defense through his last chip

[SATAN]

Just letting you know I didn't read your thread.

1-9.

[Full Court]

How can he be considered for goat when he wasn't MVP-level or good defender for his entire 30's and half his chips?

Otoh, the goat was MVP and first team all-defense through his last chip

But nobody other than a fringe minority consider him GOAT. This argument has been settled for a long time, bro.

[3ba11]

didn't read your thread.




no need becausae the title says it all

[SATAN]

Accidentally glanced at the thread title.

Is the idiot aware LeBron won a couple FMVPs in his 30s? Much better than meaningless regular season awards (which are just something for the media to talk about, everyone knows the best players aren't going to get it most of the time anyway, even his beloved MJ deserved more).

[3ba11]

Accidentally glanced at the thread title.

Is the idiot aware LeBron won a couple FMVPs in his 30s? Much better than meaningless regular season awards (which are just something for the media to talk about, everyone knows the best players aren't going to get it most of the time anyway, even his beloved MJ deserved more).


See, the problem with half-assing the regular season and not playing at an MVP-caliber is that your TEAM doesn't reach the heights or level of chemistry and effectiveness that they can reach, so the team goes into the playoffs as whimpering underdogs instead of towering dynasty favorites.. That's the issue with bron-ball - it's incapable of having a perennial favorite or "sure thing" regardless of cast.. We all remember when Lebron's veteran super-team was underdog to baby Westbrick or fossil duncan.. pretty weak.. it's a garbage brand that can't develop great chemistry so it half-asses the regular season and simply hopes it's stacked with enough talent to barely meet the underdog expectation (4/10)

[SATAN]

I have you blocked dude.

[1987_Lakers]

OP has Kobe & Bird #2 and #3 on his all-time list, both never won MVP in their 30's.

[SATAN]

OP has Kobe & Bird #2 and #3 on his all-time list, both never won MVP in their 30's.

:yaohappy:

https://realstyle.therealreal.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/giphy-29.gif

[3ba11]

OP has Kobe & Bird #2 and #3 on his all-time list, both never won MVP in their 30's.


Kobe won more titles and both yielded far superior team ceilngs/Finals records and perennial favorite status - they were better at winning as shown by their regular season records, favorite status in the playoffs, and Finals records... Lebron had 1 sixty-win season with super-teams from 2011-2017 - that's pathetic - Kobe, MJ or Bird would've had multiple 70-win teams with that kind of hand-picked supporting help that included franchise players from other teams (diluting the conference and consolidating power on 1 team)

[1987_Lakers]

Kobe, MJ or Bird would've had multiple 70-win teams with that kind of hand-picked supporting help that included franchise players from other teams (diluting the conference and consolidating power on 1 team)

Kobe had peak Shaq, never won 70 games. Bird in '86 had the most talented team ever seen besides the '17 Warriors and didn't reach 70 wins.

You're a joke.

[Lebron23]

Lebron should have been mvp in 2018

[Phoenix]

OP has Kobe & Bird #2 and #3 on his all-time list, both never won MVP in their 30's.

He also has KD in his top 10 who didn't win MVP past 26, and Kawhi whose never won MVP period. Or has that changed, I can't keep up with the annually revised lists.

[SouBeachTalents]

Seriously, THIS is the best OP can come up with now :lol You want us to argue LeBron was still an MVP level player after 30, or dispute players are winning 70 games in his place? This is frankly an embarrassing, Jordan on the Wizards level effort by OP.

[3ba11]

Kobe had peak Shaq, never won 70 games. Bird in '86 had the most talented team ever seen besides the '17 Warriors and didn't reach 70 wins.

You're a joke.


None of Kobe or Bird's teams diluted the league and consolidated power on 1 team.. It's a big deal when franchise players from 3 different teams come together on 1 team - this dilutes the league and consolidates power on 1 team.. So not only did Bird or Kobe not have 3 franchise players on 1 team, but they also didn't team up with the top guys on other teams - they simply didn't team up with opponents and if they had, they would easily win 70 games in this uniquely diluted and stacked-deck format

[Axe]

OP has Kobe & Bird #2 and #3 on his all-time list, both never won MVP in their 30's.
:lol

[3ba11]

He also has KD in his top 10 who didn't win MVP past 26, and Kawhi whose never won MVP period. Or has that changed, I can't keep up with the annually revised lists.


Not winning MVP in his 30's or being all-defense are things that negate a comparison to MJ - but Lebron can still be compared to Kobe, Bird, KD etc,.. he'll come up short to those guys however due to winning or team ceiling/Finals record, clutch and jumpshooting/brand of ball/teammate development

[red1]

OP makes it too easy

lebron 4 finals MVPs - only player in nba history with a finals MVP on 3 franchises

jordan was ringless without pippen

jordan's bulls won 55 games without him:

https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/CHI/1994.html


best supporting cast in the league BY FAR


which is why OP is always talking about lebrons help

[red1]

lebron game 7 finals record: 2-0

finals MVPs over two dynasties in their prime, the 2013 spurs and 2016 warriors

best player in the nba finals, playoffs and regular season 8 years (2012, 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017, 2018, 2020)

https://assets.sbnation.com/assets/2818159/lebronclutch.gif
https://media.tenor.com/rUNH4kIqMxEAAAAd/lebron-james-rejection.gif

[RRR3]

lebron game 7 finals record: 2-0

finals MVPs over two dynasties in their prime, the 2013 spurs and 2016 warriors

best player in the nba finals, playoffs and regular season 8 years (2012, 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017, 2018, 2020)

https://assets.sbnation.com/assets/2818159/lebronclutch.gif
https://media.tenor.com/rUNH4kIqMxEAAAAd/lebron-james-rejection.gif
Big. Bad. Bron.

[red1]

steve kerr after the 2018 finals said lebron and mj are a complete toss-up and are 1a 1b as the best players he's ever seen - he put them over players he saw up close like duncan curry kd scottie


he's the most qualified source on the subject - 3 rings with mj and 2 rings with duncan and 4 rings with curry



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7MG8wjJNdf4&ab_channel=ESPN

[red1]

kerr is absolutely right - 2018 lebron was playing at a GOAT level



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GkUUg88Grig&ab_channel=Nonstop

[red1]

Big. Bad. Bron.

OP said lebron didnt have any skills and would decline off a cliff 9 years ago


lebron literally became the leading scorer of all-time :oldlol:

[red1]

this is OP

he's like the windhorst of jordan stans, except fat AND mentally ill



"jordan had killer instinct - lebron isnt clutch and passes up the big shots"

spammed 50x times

https://static.flickr.com/6/102645224_91633c56c1.jpg

[red1]

lebron game 7 finals record: 2-0

finals MVPs over two dynasties in their prime, the 2013 spurs and 2016 warriors

best player in the nba finals, playoffs and regular season 8 years (2012, 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017, 2018, 2020)

https://assets.sbnation.com/assets/2818159/lebronclutch.gif
https://media.tenor.com/rUNH4kIqMxEAAAAd/lebron-james-rejection.gif

buh buh kd was better 2017 he won the finals MVP buh buh AD was better 2020 buh buh he lost in 2015


anyone with an IQ knows what was really going on those seasons


they couldve given lebron the regular season mvp nearly every year that he was on the cavs and heat and it wouldve made sense



and the results dont lie. ended up with more finals MVPs than every player not named jordan


it all evened out


+1 finals MVP in this picture after 2020

https://fadeawayworld.net/.image/ar_4:3%2Cc_fill%2Ccs_srgb%2Cfl_progressive%2Cq_aut o:good%2Cw_1200/MTgwMTMyOTc2MDIyNTI5MTQ2/top-10-nba-players-with-the-most-finals-and-regular-season-mvps-combined.jpg

[red1]

VERY strong GOAT case now after the 4 finals MVPS

baldan achieved all of finals MVPs against cotton candy competition (didnt beat any dynasties in the finals) and also loses points for being ringless without pippen.

we wont factor the sociopathy or the degenerate gambling into this ranking but he'd lost more points if we did.


https://fadeawayworld.net/.image/c_limit%2Ccs_srgb%2Cq_auto:good%2Cw_860/MTkyMzU0Mjc0NTkwOTI2MDY2/304962178_1257390335099699_4156556448970096283_n.w ebp

[red1]

jordan's rivals were known avid grocery baggers


main rival was a grocery bagging enthusiast


notice the huge size difference - jordan was known for being a bully:


https://i.postimg.cc/k5pXdN5h/Rivalry-Decade.jpg

[red1]

hornacek was tough and stocktons toughness was legendary but they were giving up a lot in athleticism to jordan and scottie who were both hyperathletic wings


the best wingdefender of his era played on jordans own team - thats why 3ball hates scottie so much, he knows how elite his defense was


https://i.pinimg.com/originals/13/08/58/130858438f25162d330d46b9d9e52fa8.jpg
https://s3.amazonaws.com/abn-prod/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2020/05/hornacek_jordan-1.png
https://s3.amazonaws.com/abn-prod/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2020/05/hornacek_jordan_2.png

[Kblaze8855]

But nobody other than a fringe minority consider him GOAT. This argument has been settled for a long time, bro.

It’s a good 35-40 percent of all sports fans. By percentage the number of people who have Lebron the goat is probably greater than either political party has support but they think they’re half the country.

It’s a pretty strong percentage. Way more than a fringe. Probably shouldn’t be but facts don’t care about what should be.

[Axe]

It’s a good 35-40 percent of all sports fans. By percentage the number of people who have Lebron the goat is probably greater than either political party has support but they think they’re half the country.

It’s a pretty strong percentage. Way more than a fringe. Probably shouldn’t be but facts don’t care about what should be.
Ether.

[red1]

But nobody other than a fringe minority consider him GOAT. This argument has been settled for a long time, bro.

some of the highest IQ coaches and GMs disagree

pat won with magic and cap and saw mj up close against him and after his relationship with lbj fell apart he still said lebron possible GOAT in 2020 when he was "3 for 6" like these geniuses were saying

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2890057-heats-pat-riley-calls-lebron-james-maybe-the-greatest-player-of-all-time

[red1]

It’s a good 35-40 percent of all sports fans. By percentage the number of people who have Lebron the goat is probably greater than either political party has support but they think they’re half the country.

It’s a pretty strong percentage. Way more than a fringe. Probably shouldn’t be but facts don’t care about what should be.

roasted that fat little bitch :oldlol:

[ELITEpower23]

OP has Kobe & Bird #2 and #3 on his all-time list, both never won MVP in their 30's.

:yaohappy:

https://realstyle.therealreal.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/giphy-29.gif

[SATAN]

roasted that fat little bitch :oldlol:

:yaohappy:

https://realstyle.therealreal.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/giphy-29.gif

[ELITEpower23]

roasted that fat little bitch :oldlol:

:lol.:roll:

[Axe]

roasted that fat little bitch :oldlol:
:oldlol::roll:

[ShawkFactory]

Just to clarify, is there only one person each year who plays at an MVP level?

And only 15 people who are good at defense?

[nineiron]

Accidentally got Lebron's dick in my mouth


it was no accident

[red1]

:yaohappy:

https://realstyle.therealreal.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/giphy-29.gif

kblaze is a bulls fan who has mj as his clear GOAT

even he knows OP is a ****ing retard


https://media.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPTc5MGI3NjExN3hseWk0YjNlczA3cjE5bjBvZXhhbWY 0Ym40MXQ2ZGM2OXA3dWZxMCZlcD12MV9pbnRlcm5hbF9naWZfY nlfaWQmY3Q9Zw/Su0aljmbFVghW/giphy.gif
https://media.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPTc5MGI3NjExN3hseWk0YjNlczA3cjE5bjBvZXhhbWY 0Ym40MXQ2ZGM2OXA3dWZxMCZlcD12MV9pbnRlcm5hbF9naWZfY nlfaWQmY3Q9Zw/Su0aljmbFVghW/giphy.gif

[3ba11]

Just to clarify, is there only one person each year who plays at an MVP level?

And only 15 people who are good at defense?


He went from winning b2b mvp to 10 year drought despite having media/voters in his pocket and constantly shilling for him

9 or 10 straight seasons with no mvp and no all-defense is a big enough sample to say he didn't play at MVP level or elite defense in his 30's.. And therefore isn't comparable to Jordan

[ShawkFactory]

He went from winning b2b mvp to 10 year drought despite having media/voters in his pocket and constantly shilling for him

9 or 10 straight seasons with no mvp and no all-defense is a big enough sample to say he didn't play at MVP level or elite defense in his 30's.. And therefore isn't comparable to Jordan

So…yes?

[Dagoods]

So much for the longevity argument.

He's been so good for so long...NO MVP after 30 and no first team NBA defense either.

MJ was the MVP of the NBA regular season in 98 at age 35 and made First Team NBA Defense.

TALENT > PEDs

[sdot_thadon]

I'll just leave this here.

Lebron is the all-time leader in MVP award shares in NBA history.

In his 30s Lebron placed:

3rd place in Mvp voting at 30
3rd place in Mvp voting at 31
4th place in Mvp voting at 32
2nd place in Mvp voting at 33
11th place in Mvp voting at 34
2nd place in Mvp voting at 35
13th place in Mvp voting at 36
10th place in Mvp voting at 37

That's 5 top 5 mvp voting finishes in his 30s, 4 top 3.

He actually has slightly more dpoy award shares than Mj does:

Lebron 0.88
Jordan 0.79

At.30 came in 13th in dpoy voting
At 31 came in 11th in dpoy voting
At 32 placed 5th in dpoy voting.

According to second spectrum in the 2016 playoffs, at age 31 he had one of the best defensive runs on record:

Overall: 31.9 DFG%, opponents usually shoot 45.9%, -14.0%

Threes: 24.1 DFG%, opponents usually shoot 36.7%, -12. 6%

Twos: 36.6 DFG%, opponents usually shoot 50.5%, -13.9%

<6ft: 37.9 DFG%, opponents usually shoot 61.3%, -23.5%

Then he stepped it up in the finals another notch:


Overall: 31.6 DFG%, opponents usually shoot 47.9%, -16.3%

Threes: 29.0 DFG%, opponents usually shoot 39.6%, -10.6%

Twos: 33.3 DFG%, opponents usually shoot 53.6%, -20.3%

<6ft: 38.5 DFG%, opponents usually shoot 63.6%, -25.1%

And in the last 3 historic games he took it goat level:

Overall: 19.4 DFG%, opponents usually shoot 47.4,
-28.4%
Threes: 12.5 DFG%, opponents usually shoot 40.7%,
-28.2%
Twos: 25 DFG%, opponents usually shoot 52.4%, -27.4%
<6ft: 15.4 DFG%, opponents usually shoot 60.6%, -45.2

Golden State shot 2/13 at the rim in games 5-7 against
LeBron. Had he not stopped those shots (everyone
knows the block on lggy), Warriors win. It was to the
point that Warriors players were afraid to take layups
with LeBron anywhere within their vicinity.

Pretty safe to say Op is full of shit as usual. That's all.

[3ba11]

I'll just leave this here.

Lebron is the all-time leader in MVP award shares in NBA history.

In his 30s Lebron placed:

3rd place in Mvp voting at 30
3rd place in Mvp voting at 31
4th place in Mvp voting at 32
2nd place in Mvp voting at 33
11th place in Mvp voting at 34
2nd place in Mvp voting at 35
13th place in Mvp voting at 36
10th place in Mvp voting at 37

That's 5 top 5 mvp voting finishes in his 30s, 4 top 3.

He actually has slightly more dpoy award shares than Mj does:

Lebron 0.88
Jordan 0.79

At.30 came in 13th in dpoy voting
At 31 came in 11th in dpoy voting
At 32 placed 5th in dpoy voting.





Pippen, Paul George and Blake Griffin were top 3 in MVP - they aren't MVP-caliber players and your post shows how Lebron was CONSISTENTLY AT THIS LEVEL for a decade and therefore below MVP-level for a large sample size (a decade)

And posting how Lebron finished outside of the top 10 in DPOY confirms the point being made that he wasn't all-defensive caliber - MJ was 4th for DPOY at 35 years old and 1st team defense for every title - so Lebron simply doesn't compare to the goat level that was established by Jordan

[sdot_thadon]

Pippen, Paul George and Blake Griffin were top 3 in MVP - they aren't MVP-caliber players and your post shows how Lebron was CONSISTENTLY AT THIS LEVEL for a decade and therefore below MVP-level for a large sample size (a decade)

And posting how Lebron finished outside of the top 10 in DPOY confirms the point being made that he wasn't all-defensive caliber - MJ was 4th for DPOY at 35 years old and 1st team defense for every title - so Lebron simply doesn't compare to the goat level that was established by Jordan

Um bruh, it possible to have an mvp caliber season without actually winning the award. Pretty common for us to debate who should've won mvp in any given year because the criteria that can sway the narrative is a vast list of small details. Lebron has been mvp caliber roughly most of his basketball life lol. He's not even rubbing elbows with the guys you mentioned don't be that dummy. Finishing in the top 10 OR....just outside it still says you're a pretty good defender by someone's estimation. You have a really weird way of saying you're wrong. Lebrons defensive play in 2016 is something we've never ever seen Mj approach in a post season run, and that was in his 30s. Try again tomorrow.

[SouBeachTalents]

Um bruh, it possible to have an mvp caliber season without actually winning the award. Pretty common for us to debate who should've won mvp in any given year because the criteria that can sway the narrative is a vast list of small details. Lebron has been mvp caliber roughly most of his basketball life lol. He's not even rubbing elbows with the guys you mentioned don't be that dummy. Finishing in the top 10 OR....just outside it still says you're a pretty good defender by someone's estimation. You have a really weird way of saying you're wrong. Lebrons defensive play in 2016 is something we've never ever seen Mj approach in a post season run, and that was in his 30s. Try again tomorrow.
Why are you arguing with an absolute buffoon. Do you actually expect him to be reasonable :lol Just laugh at his stupid points, but never take him seriously.

[sdot_thadon]

Why are you arguing with an absolute buffoon. Do you actually expect him to be reasonable :lol Just laugh at his stupid points, but never take him seriously.

Nah but he needs people step in and bury him in his own threads from time to time lol. Logic is decades behind the modern era.

[ELITEpower23]

OP has Kobe & Bird #2 and #3 on his all-time list, both never won MVP in their 30's.

https://media4.giphy.com/media/iOm1xOSfAtPzmPXJqH/giphy.gif

[3ba11]

Um bruh, it possible to have an mvp caliber season without actually winning the award. Pretty common for us to debate who should've won mvp in any given year because the criteria that can sway the narrative is a vast list of small details. Lebron has been mvp caliber roughly most of his basketball life lol. He's not even rubbing elbows with the guys you mentioned don't be that dummy. Finishing in the top 10 OR....just outside it still says you're a pretty good defender by someone's estimation. You have a really weird way of saying you're wrong. Lebrons defensive play in 2016 is something we've never ever seen Mj approach in a post season run, and that was in his 30s. Try again tomorrow.


Jordan was a top 5 defender until he was 35 based on 1st-team all-defense or DPOY voting, while Lebron wasn't even top 10 for big parts of his prime and basically all of his 30's.

That's a massive gap defensively that confirms Jordan's vast superiority as a defender, while the MVP case isn't up for debate - Jordan won MVP at 33 and 35 years old, while Lebron's MVP voting was peak-Paul George caliber for a decade.

So again, regarding MVP qualities and defense, Jordan was far superior, while also being far superior offensively due to greater passing for the critical stretch of their playoff careers (06-14' vs 85-93'), and also a 7 ppg scoring edge that included greater efficiency per possession (ball control) and superior brand of ball (jumpshooting/ball movement approach hat yielded slighly lower TS than the ball-dominant/losing brand)

[k0kakw0rld]

How can he be considered for goat when he wasn't MVP-level or good defender for his entire 30's and half his chips?

Otoh, the goat was MVP and first team all-defense through his last chip

Enjoy dreaming about LeBron James. The GOAT

[sdot_thadon]

Jordan was a top 5 defender until he was 35 based on 1st-team all-defense or DPOY voting, while Lebron wasn't even top 10 for big parts of his prime and basically all of his 30's.

That's a massive gap defensively that confirms Jordan's vast superiority as a defender, while the MVP case isn't up for debate - Jordan won MVP at 33 and 35 years old, while Lebron's MVP voting was peak-Paul George caliber for a decade.

So again, regarding MVP qualities and defense, Jordan was far superior, while also being far superior offensively due to greater passing for the critical stretch of their playoff careers (06-14' vs 85-93'), and also a 7 ppg scoring edge that included greater efficiency per possession (ball control) and superior brand of ball (jumpshooting/ball movement approach hat yielded slighly lower TS than the ball-dominant/losing brand)
That boy on roller skates already. Lebron has a higher dpoy award share for his career. Meaning he's recieved more votes towards the award than Mj did, despite not being able to win one. Also I'd say overall career wise Mj has better defensive longevity, but Lebrons defensive peak blows Mjs out of the water. And if you're retarded enough to believe,.....ok, you are retarded enough to believe that Lebron wasn't Mvp caliber in his 30s, so you can have that lil chew toy to yourself. All the rest of what you posted is the usual goalposts moving crap after getting your shit pushed in. Thread topic trashed pages ago. Try again tomorrow.