The Real History of WW2 and how it's remembered

[Atlantis]

The Eastern Front is where most of the casualties happened in WW2.

The Western Allies - the US and the UK - know this.

Millions of Soviet prisoners of war died on the Eastern front, millions of Soviet soldiers, millions of Jews, millions of people caught up in the crossfire.

But the West chooses to selectively remember the casualties - because it wasn't PC to sympathize with the Soviet deaths on the Eastern front after WW2 - after all, they were the enemy.

But it would be inhumane to reject the mass casualties suffered on the Eastern front and its contribution to victory over Nazi Germany because the facts were indisputable.

So the Western allies created the narrative of the Jews as the principal victims of the war, when in reality the Eastern front was a giant bloodbath as a whole.

The Holocaust is a selective remembrance of WW2 by the Western allies.

Why don't the Soviets talk about the Holocaust when they liberated the camps?

Because Hitler's war against the Soviet Union was the REAL Holocaust, and the Jews who died were a PART of that, and not the central narrative.


Free Palestine.

[ShawkFactory]

Not only is the attempt to be edgy and offensive to Jews lame, but you’re also just incorrect. There is so much information regarding WW2. You don’t get to lie like that.

[Jasper]

Not only is the attempt to be edgy and offensive to Jews lame, but you’re also just incorrect. There is so much information regarding WW2. You don’t get to lie like that.

10 4

most causality's were the Jews
heavy loses Russia

[bladefd]

Yes, way more Russians died than anyone else. But what is the point of this thread? I don't get it.

Weren't jews the single biggest group mass-murdered if we go by race? Yes, many jews were Russian so the numbers intersects quite a bit.

[JohnnySic]

Yes, way more Russians died than anyone else.
Nope. Chinese got them beat.

[ShawkFactory]

Nope. Chinese got them beat.

Civilian-wise yes. It gets swept under the rug because most of the western world only cares about the western world. But what the Japanese did to China was as abominable as anything anyone has done ever really.

The Soviets had such drastic military casualties that it outweighed that overall deaths.

China got fvcked though for sure. The rise of Mao makes sense when you actually consider it.

[Chick Stern]

Millions of Soviets died, but a large number of them was due to the utter fail of the communist supply system.
The Soviets weren’t rounded up, starved and killed in mass events.

[Nanners]

So the Western allies created the narrative of the Jews as the principal victims of the war, when in reality the Eastern front was a giant bloodbath as a whole.

Great post overall, but this particular point is not entirely accurate. Every single one of the so-called "death camps" was discovered and liberated by the soviets. The western allies also discovered and liberated plenty of Nazi prison camps, but according to history books every one of the camps liberated by the west was just a prison/labor camp (virtually no different than the US internment camps for japs).

Why do you think Hitler attacked the soviets in the first place? Heres a hint - the same people who started the Russian revolution in 1917 also started a much less known revolution in germany a few years later, and the outcome of this revolution in Germany was the Weimar republic. Hitler was elected the same year that the new soviet government was orchestrating the Holodomir in Russia.


Free Palestine.

Amen

[ShawkFactory]

Great post overall, but this particular point is not entirely accurate. Every single one of the so-called "death camps" was discovered and liberated by the soviets. The western allies also discovered and liberated plenty of Nazi prison camps, but according to history books every one of the camps liberated by the west was just a prison/labor camp (virtually no different than the US internment camps for japs).

Why do you think Hitler attacked the soviets in the first place? Heres a hint - the same people who started the Russian revolution in 1917 also started a much less known revolution in germany a few years later, and the outcome of this revolution in Germany was the Weimar republic. Hitler was elected the same year that the new soviet government was orchestrating the Holodomir in Russia.



Amen

I think this was definitely a factor but not necessarily the entire story. Hitler wanted everything he deemed theirs. He was certainly a vindictive person but not even he would start something with such a wide scope just to settle a score with those responsible for Weimar. He was already the supreme leader. He won..

Having said that...no it is not a great post overall. Anyone who has studied WW2 in the US beyond the one year of world history maybe sophomore year of high school, and the couple weeks (if that) in March focusing on that period, understands what happened. The war and the Holocaust were separate entities. Millions of innocent people were rounded up and slaughtered with no real tactical purpose.

The invansion of Russia, as bloody and ultimately fvcked up as it was..is not the same thing. Calling it "the REAL Holocaust" is agenda-driven bullshit.

[Nanners]

I think this was definitely a factor but not necessarily the entire story. Hitler wanted everything he deemed theirs. He was certainly a vindictive person but not even he would start something with such a wide scope just to settle a score with those responsible for Weimar. He was already the supreme leader. He won..

So why exactly did Hitler invade Russia then? You think he did it for the land? When the Nazis launched their invasion into Russia, they already controlled 2/3 of Europe and a bunch of north Africa...


Having said that...no it is not a great post overall. Anyone who has studied WW2 in the US beyond the one year of world history maybe sophomore year of high school, and the couple weeks (if that) in March focusing on that period, understands what happened. The war and the Holocaust were separate entities. Millions of innocent people were rounded up and slaughtered with no real tactical purpose.

:oldlol:

Imagine being so dumb that you think the US govt narrative you learned during high school even remotely resemble an accurate accounting of real world history.

Do you know who wrote your precious high school textbook? https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1989-05-18-fi-251-story.html

[ShawkFactory]

Imagine being so dumb that you think the US govt narrative you learned during high school even remotely resemble an accurate accounting of real world history.

Dude..are you drunk? What the actual fvck :lol

What I said was anyone who delved beyond what was taught in high school understands what happened. Literally..that's what I said. Read it back.

I don't understand how you can read something that is stated pretty clearly and come to the exact opposite conclusion.


So why exactly did Hitler invade Russia then? You think he did it for the land? When the Nazis launched their invasion into Russia, they already controlled 2/3 of Europe and a bunch of north Africa...

Partially. Also partially because of the situation you mentioned previously. If you were to have read what I said (which we've already established that you didn't, or at least not very well)


I think this was definitely a factor but not necessarily the entire story

Here you go. Maybe I'm crazy for thinking that Hitler and Nazi Germany in that period had more than one motivation behind everything?

The land was certainly a factor too. Who cares that they already controlled 2/3 of Europe? People who make $15/hr want 17. People who make 20 million want 30.

[JohnnySic]

Hitler wanted to make Germany self sufficient. To do that, he needed the grain of Ukraine and the oil and other raw materials of the Caucasus, Donbas Basin, Kuban, etc.

[bladefd]

So why exactly did Hitler invade Russia then? You think he did it for the land? When the Nazis launched their invasion into Russia, they already controlled 2/3 of Europe and a bunch of north Africa...



:oldlol:

Imagine being so dumb that you think the US govt narrative you learned during high school even remotely resemble an accurate accounting of real world history.

Do you know who wrote your precious high school textbook? https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1989-05-18-fi-251-story.html

Communism/socialism was always Hitler's ultimate enemy. He wrote extensively on it in Mein Kampf. It was personal for him. It was somewhat race driven.

There was also the want for land, but that wasn't all of it. The nazis wanted to do what the British and others had for centuries - colonization especially the areas where people they deemed subhuman were from. I don't think they would have ever stopped expanding though. They would have eventually gone after Japan too, had Axis power won ww2. Greed has no bounds.

[GimmeThat]

the world of "we'll let the next generation decide" is slowly catching up to the "just exactly what choice do the kids have to decide beyond generational debt" in which they lied to the world as extremist, behind the assaut style weaponary

2 Billion in Jared Kushnor's pocket

[John8204]

I think this was definitely a factor but not necessarily the entire story. Hitler wanted everything he deemed theirs. He was certainly a vindictive person but not even he would start something with such a wide scope just to settle a score with those responsible for Weimar. He was already the supreme leader. He won..

Having said that...no it is not a great post overall. Anyone who has studied WW2 in the US beyond the one year of world history maybe sophomore year of high school, and the couple weeks (if that) in March focusing on that period, understands what happened. The war and the Holocaust were separate entities. Millions of innocent people were rounded up and slaughtered with no real tactical purpose.

The invansion of Russia, as bloody and ultimately fvcked up as it was..is not the same thing. Calling it "the REAL Holocaust" is agenda-driven bullshit.

Hitler did what every other western country was doing at that time. If you actually studied the war and the German system Hitler did WWII but the Holocaust was handled by the SS under Himmler. Hitler just really wanted to expel the Jews as most of Europe wanted to thanks to the mix of the Rothschilds(decentralized banking) and Marxists(militant communism).

Also WWII had been going on for a while...Japan was in a constant state of War with China, Taiwan, Korea etc...we even went into the Philippines murdered a million people overthrew the government after they overthrew the Spanish because we wanted economic ties with China.

[bladefd]

Hitler did what every other western country was doing at that time. If you actually studied the war and the German system Hitler did WWII but the Holocaust was handled by the SS under Himmler. Hitler just really wanted to expel the Jews as most of Europe wanted to thanks to the mix of the Rothschilds(decentralized banking) and Marxists(militant communism).

Also WWII had been going on for a while...Japan was in a constant state of War with China, Taiwan, Korea etc...we even went into the Philippines murdered a million people overthrew the government after they overthrew the Spanish because we wanted economic ties with China.

Hitler knew the details of what himmler was doing. He ordered heydrich and himmler to put together a plan for the Jewish issue, and they came up with the details (heydrich led the conference). But Hitler then approved the plan so I would not excuse Hitler from the holocaust. Dude knew and approved everything going on in his nation, even if he wasn't always directly involved in the small details.

Ww2 officially began when Germany rolled into Poland. You could argue that the Japanese attack on China (manchuria?) was the start of ww2, but it's not exactly ww2 without Germany's entrance.

[John8204]

Hitler knew the details of what himmler was doing. He ordered heydrich and himmler to put together a plan for the Jewish issue, and they came up with the details (heydrich led the conference). But Hitler then approved the plan so I would not excuse Hitler from the holocaust. Dude knew and approved everything going on in his nation, even if he wasn't always directly involved in the small details.

Ww2 officially began when Germany rolled into Poland. You could argue that the Japanese attack on China (manchuria?) was the start of ww2, but it's not exactly ww2 without Germany's entrance.

We're never really going to know...Hitler has always been the over simplified option. Interment camps were everywhere including in the US. Part of why the KKK had a third run was because leadership was consolidated in US BUND camps. Heydrich and Borman where the ones who ran the conference which decided on the final solution...though half the victims were Polish. We also had a role in that as Poles who tried to flee to the US were delayed by a policy from the Secretary of State (a known Anti-Semite).

As for Hitler we do blame him for the Holocaust but we forget the Evian conference of 38 which shock of shockers the US simply refused to send anyone of importance.

[Jasper]

https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/countries-involved-in-world-war-two

I did not know China had such a high casualty during the war....
Obviously Hitler wanted the whole side of the planet.
Similar to Trump wanting the whole west

[bladefd]

We're never really going to know...Hitler has always been the over simplified option. Interment camps were everywhere including in the US. Part of why the KKK had a third run was because leadership was consolidated in US BUND camps. Heydrich and Borman where the ones who ran the conference which decided on the final solution...though half the victims were Polish. We also had a role in that as Poles who tried to flee to the US were delayed by a policy from the Secretary of State (a known Anti-Semite).

As for Hitler we do blame him for the Holocaust but we forget the Evian conference of 38 which shock of shockers the US simply refused to send anyone of importance.

No conference such as Wannsee conference could have happened without Hitler's approval and direct knowledge. Lots of upper nazi officials attended and heydrich led it. Heydrich was the 3rd most powerful man at the time in nazi Germany. Of course Hitler knew the conference was happening lol.

No, Japanese internment camps are not the same as extermination camps in Germany.

Majority of Poland was Jewish people afaik.

Yes, us could have saved many more jews by letting them into the USA as refugees. That was a huge blunder by the secretary of state. USA had multiple chances to release details on the nazi extermination camps, but they refused to believe the things were really happening. I do have an issue with that.

Having said that, you are trying way too hard to excuse Hitler from the final solution. Hitler knew what was happening without a doubt, and I don't need some direct evidence to prove that lol. Hitler was a micro-manager, and nothing went on that he didn't know about. Certainly not something as vast as the extermination camps. I blame Hitler, heydrich, himmler, goebbels, all of the nazis for the final solution.

[John8204]

Not saying Hitler wasn't involved in the Holocaust, but you are pointing out the key part and problem with the Hitler discussion. The guy that actually put out the programs to murder six million people...Himmler basically has gotten away with it.

[eliteballer]

...everyone knows and everyone has known since the war itself that the Germans first and firemost cared about the Eastern Front. Like 80% of the German military was on the Eastern Front.

This isn't some grand revelation.

[Nanners]

Why don't the Soviets talk about the Holocaust when they liberated the camps?

This is total nonsense... the soviets were the ones who started the discussion about the holocaust - every single "death camp" was liberated by the soviets, while all of the camps liberated by the US and western forces were only work camps.

Look up the term "holocaust" on google n-gram viewer. In the years immediately following the war the phrase actually became less common for a decade or two, it was not until the late 60s that the word holocaust could be commonly found within US culture.