Draymond Suspended 5 Games

[FireDavidKahn]

https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1724958316495827213


Adrian Wojnarowski
@wojespn
The NBA is suspending Golden State’s Draymond Green for five games, source tells ESPN.

NBA gave him such a long rope over the years and now they getting tired of it:oldlol:

[Axe]

https://media.tenor.com/IIQCn5NTFVoAAAAC/draymond-green-mouth-open.gif

[Xiao Yao You]

maybe Curry will be back on the floor by then :roll:

[Xiao Yao You]

Clutch Points: Draymond Green’s most notable incidents during his NBA career (https://*********.com/social/) 👀 – 4 career suspensions – 171 technical fouls – 20 flagrant fouls – 19 ejections – $1.4 million in fines from the league pic.twitter.com/xmIaZh07Ym
– via Twitter ClutchPointsApp (https://twitter.com/ClutchPointsApp)

[Mask the Embiid]

Kenyon Martin didn’t get suspended for bullying players. But when Draymond does it he gets 5 suspended. The Morris twins been punking the league for almost 2 decades and they have never been suspended. They just got something against Draymond

[Hey Yo]

Until the appeal and probably drops down to 3gms

[ArbitraryWater]

Kenyon Martin didn’t get suspended for bullying players. But when Draymond does it he gets 5 suspended. The Morris twins been punking the league for almost 2 decades and they have never been suspended. They just got something against Draymond

pls show me what Martin or Morris twins ever did that was similar to a chokehold

[SaltyMeatballs]

Kenyon Martin didn’t get suspended for bullying players. But when Draymond does it he gets 5 suspended. The Morris twins been punking the league for almost 2 decades and they have never been suspended. They just got something against Draymond

You live under a rock? Draymond has a history of violent behavior and being an emotional diva on the court. He does this shit to himself

[FultzNationRISE]

pls show me what Martin or Morris twins ever did that was similar to a chokehold


You get it.

I keep seeing it referenced as a ‘headlock.’

It was not a headlock, it was a chokehold. The latter being obviously more dangerous.

[ArbitraryWater]

You live under a rock? Draymond has a history of violent behavior and being an emotional diva on the court. He does this shit to himself

Also they entered the league just 1 year apart and Markus barely played his rookie year so they basically started out together. lol

[Jasper]

gobert out 6 with pain in the neck

[tpols]

You get it.

I keep seeing it referenced as a ‘headlock.’

It was not a headlock, it was a chokehold. The latter being obviously more dangerous.


A rear naked choke for 5 seconds isn't dangerous. Gobert was nowhere close to losing consciousness. If you've ever seen an mma fight or had a scrap yourself or amongst your buddies you would know what it looks like when a guy is about to go under.

Rudy wasn't close to that. Tbh... drays technique was sloppy as ****. He didn't truly sink his right elbow under goberts chin and he didn't grip his right arm with his left arm at the correct angle to cut off circulation.

Either way, even if he did do it correctly it isn't dangerous at all at that hold time. If he held it for 30 or 60 seconds it would be, but such a short time is far less dangerous than a punch.

[SATAN]

A rear naked choke for 5 seconds isn't dangerous. Gobert was nowhere close to losing consciousness. If you've ever seen an mma fight or had a scrap yourself or amongst your buddies you would know what it looks like when a guy is about to go under.

Rudy wasn't close to that. Tbh... drays technique was sloppy as ****. He didn't truly sink his right elbow under goberts chin and he didn't grip his right arm with his left arm at the correct angle to cut off circulation.

Either way, even if he did do it correctly it isn't dangerous at all at that hold time. If he held it for 30 or 60 seconds it would be, but such a short time is far less dangerous than a punch.

It doesn't matter. Draymond can only get away with so much. It's gotten out of hand.

[Xiao Yao You]

A rear naked choke for 5 seconds isn't dangerous. Gobert was nowhere close to losing consciousness. If you've ever seen an mma fight or had a scrap yourself or amongst your buddies you would know what it looks like when a guy is about to go under.

Rudy wasn't close to that. Tbh... drays technique was sloppy as ****. He didn't truly sink his right elbow under goberts chin and he didn't grip his right arm with his left arm at the correct angle to cut off circulation.

Either way, even if he did do it correctly it isn't dangerous at all at that hold time. If he held it for 30 or 60 seconds it would be, but such a short time is far less dangerous than a punch.

Gobert said as much :lol

[Im Still Ballin]

A rear naked choke for 5 seconds isn't dangerous. Gobert was nowhere close to losing consciousness. If you've ever seen an mma fight or had a scrap yourself or amongst your buddies you would know what it looks like when a guy is about to go under.

Rudy wasn't close to that. Tbh... drays technique was sloppy as ****. He didn't truly sink his right elbow under goberts chin and he didn't grip his right arm with his left arm at the correct angle to cut off circulation.

Either way, even if he did do it correctly it isn't dangerous at all at that hold time. If he held it for 30 or 60 seconds it would be, but such a short time is far less dangerous than a punch.

It was 9 seconds bro. 9.

[kawhileonard2]

This is messed up. He didn't even start it.

[bison]

Soft league. Just have him lick Silver’s taint for a minute and get him back on the floor for the next game.

[Xiao Yao You]

This is messed up. He didn't even start it.

no he took what was nothing but just the usual pushing and posturing and turned it into the Octagon :facepalm

[bdonovan]

pls show me what Martin or Morris twins ever did that was similar to a chokehold

It's not a matter of showing an identical action. Players did far worse. Jokic injured a player's neck so badly he was injured for FOUR months. Suspension length: 1 game.

Gobert has ZERO injuries from what happened. He was able to play right after (as opposed to four months later). Even more interestingly, Gobert began with a chokehold on Klay Thompson with his right arm around Klay's neck. Clearly instigating the conflict. For an action in defense of his teammate that caused no injury, Draymond is out 5 games. For a blindside tackle resulting in an injury to the other play of over 100 days, Jokic got ONE game.

The measuring stick for punishment is based on the fear felt by the NBA officials who make such judgments (and the scared fan base seeing a jet black player doing anything aggressive); certainly not based on the degree of harm caused to other players.

[ArbitraryWater]

This is messed up. He didn't even start it.

He did something that could have started a new brawl all together :oldlol:

[hold this L]

It's not a matter of showing an identical action. Players did far worse. Jokic injured a player's neck so badly he was injured for FOUR months. Suspension length: 1 game.

Gobert has ZERO injuries from what happened. He was able to play right after (as opposed to four months later). Even more interestingly, Gobert began with a chokehold on Klay Thompson with his right arm around Klay's neck. Clearly instigating the conflict. For an action in defense of his teammate that caused no injury, Draymond is out 5 games. For a blindside tackle resulting in an injury to the other play of over 100 days, Jokic got ONE game.

The measuring stick for punishment is based on the fear felt by the NBA officials who make such judgments (and the scared fan base seeing a jet black player doing anything aggressive); certainly not based on the degree of harm caused to other players.
This is fair but Dray also has history. That's the main difference, the other is that Jokic is an MVP and Dray is not. I was fully expecting a 3 game suspension but I've noticed the league has switched up big time when it comes to the Warriors. The refeering has been absolute garbage so far this season against the Warriors. Even home games you're wondering WTF it's being run for the opposition. Late awful decisions vs Denver that switched the game and then the first Wolves game, every time their players flopped on a legal screen, they call it. AT Chase. :facepalm

Warriors are not only not getting any benefit of the doubt, but due to Dray's antics will get the worse end of the stick. It's going to be an ugly ending to the dynasty, especially since the idiotic management has decided to let all the guys retire together while paying them 75% of the salary. :facepalm

[ILLsmak]

sonn

-Smak

[dankok8]

When you chokehold an opposing player unprovoked, you're gonna get an ample suspension. Not sure why folks on here are surprised...

[Real Men Wear Green]

It's not a matter of showing an identical action. Players did far worse. Jokic injured a player's neck so badly he was injured for FOUR months. Suspension length: 1 game.



This is ridiculous. Morris hit Jokic first and then just assumed Jokic would take the hit and that will be all. If you hit people you had better be ready to get hit back. The fact that Jokic hit harder doesn't change the fact Morris instigated and just got hit with some payback.

[FireDavidKahn]

When you chokehold an opposing player unprovoked, you're gonna get an ample suspension. Not sure why folks on here are surprised...

Exactly.

The league also specifically cited his history of this crap as a reason for 5 games.

[Xiao Yao You]

he's lucky it's only 5

[tpols]

he's lucky it's only 5

That did seem light. I figured they'd make it 10+ because he's an extreme repeat offender.

Then again they only gave artest 7 games for a much worse incident even after he damn near shut the league down with the malice @ the palace. Which btw was one of the most entertaining sporting events I've ever seen but it ****ed with stern steinsteins money so he had to come down with the hammer.

[FireDavidKahn]

conorjustin123
@jpnba12345
From Daily Duncs: Green has gotten ejected in 9% of his games without Curry (7-of-74) in that span! That's a MASSIVE rate.

By comparison, Green has gotten ejected from just 2% of his games with Curry (3-of-160) in the last five years.

Holy hell. Draymond get's ejected 4.5x more frequently when he doesn't play with Curry.

:roll:

[tpols]

Holy hell. Draymond get's ejected 4.5x more frequently when he doesn't play with Curry.

:roll:

Curry has carried him his whole career. Dray knows he has no chance at winning when he's out.

[Xiao Yao You]

Holy hell. Draymond get's ejected 4.5x more frequently when he doesn't play with Curry.

:roll:

Gobert called it

[3ba11]

It was 9 seconds bro. 9.


Dray never sunk the choke in good though otherwise Gobert would've been paralyzed for a few seconds like his legs would've straightened out and he would've looked f'd up for a few seconds.

[Xiao Yao You]

“It was a long time, and if he knew how to choke it could have been way worse,” Gobert added. “He tried to. His intention was to really take me out. And I kept my hands up the whole time just to show the officials that I wasn’t trying to escalate the situation.”

[k0kakw0rld]

He should be out of the league. Enough of this fake tough guy. Tristan Thompson needs to whoop his ass again. :roll:

[Axe]

Send him to the raptors then. :oldlol:

[k0kakw0rld]

Send him to the raptors then. :oldlol:
The 2019 NBA Champs? Nah we beat his ass and the Warriors already. We don't need his triple singles and his non shooting ass on our team.

[Xiao Yao You]

Kendra Andrews: Kerr: “Draymond has to find a way to not cross the line – I’m not talking about an ejection or a technical – I’m talking about a physical act of violence. That’s inexcusable.” (https://*********.com/social/)

– via Twitter kendra__andrews (https://twitter.com/kendra__andrews)




Dalton Johnson: Steve Kerr says Draymond Green “definitely took it too far.” Kerr has no problem with Draymond getting Rudy Gobert off Klay Thompson, but Draymond holding on “was a terrible look” for Draymond and the NBA (https://*********.com/social/)
– via Twitter DaltonJ_Johnson (https://twitter.com/DaltonJ_Johnson)



good luck with all that coach :lol

[hold this L]

Kerr starting to teach Draymond what the word accountability means, at the young age of 33. :facepalm

[ShawkFactory]

Clearly Dray’s technique should have been considered when assessing the suspension length.

[bdonovan]

This is fair but Dray also has history. That's the main difference, the other is that Jokic is an MVP and Dray is not. I was fully expecting a 3 game suspension but I've noticed the league has switched up big time when it comes to the Warriors. The refeering has been absolute garbage so far this season against the Warriors. Even home games you're wondering WTF it's being run for the opposition. Late awful decisions vs Denver that switched the game and then the first Wolves game, every time their players flopped on a legal screen, they call it. AT Chase. :facepalm

Warriors are not only not getting any benefit of the doubt, but due to Dray's antics will get the worse end of the stick. It's going to be an ugly ending to the dynasty, especially since the idiotic management has decided to let all the guys retire together while paying them 75% of the salary. :facepalm

Except evaluations don't lean heavily on the past but evaluate the specific action being evaluated.

Take a court of law. 95% of the trial depends on evidence and testimony of the event itself. 5% may hinge on the defendant's past. Because the past is prologue. It matters only in a tangential way. You might be over-estimating the importance of the past on evaluating the present. Yes the NBA also factors the past, but it also primarily focuses on the the action an how it violates its rules. Even with an angelic past, Jokic should have gotten at least 5 games for his actions.

All that said, I agree with the suspension of Draymond- and I said that from the beginning when it happened that he took it too far. He never really applied force on the choke but it went on far too long. I thought it should be 5 games and it was (although I thought the league would give him 10).


>Even home games you're wondering WTF it's being run for the opposition.

Could explain their 1-5 record at home and winning record on the road.

[bdonovan]

This is ridiculous. Morris hit Jokic first and then just assumed Jokic would take the hit and that will be all. If you hit people you had better be ready to get hit back. The fact that Jokic hit harder doesn't change the fact Morris instigated and just got hit with some payback.

In real life, in most cases, if you respond to a misdemeanor with a felony, you still get charged. Charge Morris with the misdemeanor and Jokic with the felony.

Actual lead-up was Morris was stopping the fast break with a foul (before the Take Foul rule was instituted), Jokic actually speeds up to get past Morris causing the collision (inadvertently), Morris puts his arm up to prevent them from slamming into each other, and yes does give a push to it. Jokic suffered no injury, a non-event. The response from Jokic was a blindside shoulder tackle which resulting in a whiplash injury, damage to the neck tissue, that resulted in a loss of 40 games. Given that Morris was walking away, self-defense cannot be argued. It was as blatant an unjustified attack we've seen in the modern NBA and the fact that it was only a 1 game suspension will forever be a stain on the reputation of the NBA.

[Real Men Wear Green]

So you expect a grown man to let another push him and not do anything about it. Yeah that's not how it works. And all that felony tesla? Please. Not even Morris would put up such a stupid statement.

[lxlHoTsAuSelxl]

Kenyon Martin didn’t get suspended for bullying players. But when Draymond does it he gets 5 suspended. The Morris twins been punking the league for almost 2 decades and they have never been suspended. They just got something against Draymond

Draymond is on another tier of bs behavior. Borderline Dennis Rodman/want to be tough/cringey type of stuff but aint no Charles Oakley, Ben Wallace type.

[bdonovan]

On one hand, I'd prefer a teammate like Draymond who does too much in a fight versus a teammate like KAT who does far too little- even at one point practically help Draymond choke Gobert.

On the other, Draymond needs to be coached on middle-ground responses. Our natural instinct is binary: Fight or Flight. All the players who didn't get involved chose Flight. Klay, McDaniels, Draymond, and possibly Gobert chose Fight. The people who were trying to break up the fight in a civil way - basically the coaches and Chris Paul for dragging Klay away- chose middle-ground responses. They overcame the binary choice of "Fight vs. Flight".

KAT absolutely should have been trying to peel off Draymond's arm from Gobert; but he seemed so shook from the fight (or scared of Draymond) that he was preventing Gobert from removing Draymond's headlock by holding Gobert's arm and preventing him from using it.

While I think the reason draymond headlocked gobert is that gobert was headlocking klay, the reason he held it for 9 seconds is less than noble- it was likely because of personal animosity towards gobert. gobert prior to this had insulted draymond on social media, claiming his punching poole was done out of "insecurity". Draymond returned fire on social media about Gobert. The other 7 headlock seconds or so was Draymond score-settling against Gobert and unnecessary.

[warriorfan]

On one hand, I'd prefer a teammate like Draymond who does too much in a fight versus a teammate like KAT who does far too little- even at one point practically help Draymond choke Gobert.

On the other, Draymond needs to be coached on middle-ground responses. Our natural instinct is binary: Fight or Flight. All the players who didn't get involved chose Flight. Klay, McDaniels, Draymond, and possibly Gobert chose Fight. The people who were trying to break up the fight in a civil way - basically the coaches and Chris Paul for dragging Klay away- chose middle-ground responses. They overcame the binary choice of "Fight vs. Flight".

KAT absolutely should have been trying to peel off Draymond's arm from Gobert; but he seemed so shook from the fight (or scared of Draymond) that he was preventing Gobert from removing Draymond's headlock by holding Gobert's arm and preventing him from using it.

While I think the reason draymond headlocked gobert is that gobert was headlocking klay, the reason he held it for 9 seconds is less than noble- it was likely because of personal animosity towards gobert. gobert prior to this had insulted draymond on social media, claiming his punching poole was done out of "insecurity". Draymond returned fire on social media about Gobert. The other 7 headlock seconds or so was Draymond score-settling against Gobert and unnecessary.

Well the thing is… No one wants to be a bitch in front of their peers and millions of live viewers.

That’s one hell of an incentive to not pick flight.

[lxlHoTsAuSelxl]

He did something that could have started a new brawl all together :oldlol:

Replace KAT with prime Metta, Oakley it will be a mma battle royale.

[Xiao Yao You]

Replace KAT with prime Metta, Oakley it will be a mma battle royale.

Oakley was just a big tough guy not an idiot like Rodman, Artest and Green

[lxlHoTsAuSelxl]

Gobert called it

Gobert basically said Divamon(Green) gets exposed when Curry is out, he knows this so he was looking for smoke before game even started in order to get suspended until Curry comes back. What better way to do that with a sleeper hold on a tall French guy.

[Xiao Yao You]

Gobert basically said Divamon(Green) gets exposed when Curry is out, he knows this so he was looking for smoke before game even started in order to get suspended until Curry comes back. What better way to do that with a sleeper hold on a tall French guy.

and he doesn't like Gobert for taking DPOTY awards away from him to begin with

[hold this L]

On one hand, I'd prefer a teammate like Draymond who does too much in a fight versus a teammate like KAT who does far too little- even at one point practically help Draymond choke Gobert.

On the other, Draymond needs to be coached on middle-ground responses. Our natural instinct is binary: Fight or Flight. All the players who didn't get involved chose Flight. Klay, McDaniels, Draymond, and possibly Gobert chose Fight. The people who were trying to break up the fight in a civil way - basically the coaches and Chris Paul for dragging Klay away- chose middle-ground responses. They overcame the binary choice of "Fight vs. Flight".

KAT absolutely should have been trying to peel off Draymond's arm from Gobert; but he seemed so shook from the fight (or scared of Draymond) that he was preventing Gobert from removing Draymond's headlock by holding Gobert's arm and preventing him from using it.

While I think the reason draymond headlocked gobert is that gobert was headlocking klay, the reason he held it for 9 seconds is less than noble- it was likely because of personal animosity towards gobert. gobert prior to this had insulted draymond on social media, claiming his punching poole was done out of "insecurity". Draymond returned fire on social media about Gobert. The other 7 headlock seconds or so was Draymond score-settling against Gobert and unnecessary.

This is what it is.

[lxlHoTsAuSelxl]

Dray never sunk the choke in good though otherwise Gobert would've been paralyzed for a few seconds like his legs would've straightened out and he would've looked f'd up for a few seconds.

Green's a big ass strong dude 6'7 240lb who can play center as well. Wrapping those arms around someone neck is dangerous.

[Xiao Yao You]

This is what it is.

goes back years

[morbius]

It's not a matter of showing an identical action. Players did far worse. Jokic injured a player's neck so badly he was injured for FOUR months. Suspension length: 1 game.

Gobert has ZERO injuries from what happened. He was able to play right after (as opposed to four months later). Even more interestingly, Gobert began with a chokehold on Klay Thompson with his right arm around Klay's neck. Clearly instigating the conflict. For an action in defense of his teammate that caused no injury, Draymond is out 5 games. For a blindside tackle resulting in an injury to the other play of over 100 days, Jokic got ONE game.

The measuring stick for punishment is based on the fear felt by the NBA officials who make such judgments (and the scared fan base seeing a jet black player doing anything aggressive); certainly not based on the degree of harm caused to other players.

1. Jokic has a good rep.
2. Jokic was hit first.
3. Jokic hit a known troublemaker.

Everything opposite to Draymond. Plus, at the time of the punishment they couldn't have known how serious the injury to Morris is.

[lxlHoTsAuSelxl]

Gobert ain't trying to hurt or fight anybody(he did punch his teammate during a game lol). Gobert running back on defence, Klay and McDaniels mid court tugging and swinging each other around. It just so happened Klay was swung right i front of Gobert. Not thinking anything of it, he grabbed Klay to stop the scuffle.

Again, in the heat of the moment dude just trying to stop the fight. Some of you expect him to actually go around Klay(who was 2inches from him)to grab McDaniels intead. Another thing, Gobert didnt even have his arm on Klays neck for a second. Green was waiting a whole 2 minutes of the first quarter to find a reason to get his hands on Gobert. Draymon says, "IT'S MINE TIME TO SHINE BABY!!! YOU GOING TO SLEEP"...LOL

[bdonovan]

1. Jokic has a good rep.
2. Jokic was hit first.
3. Jokic hit a known troublemaker.

Everything opposite to Draymond. Plus, at the time of the punishment they couldn't have known how serious the injury to Morris is.

I already addressed all three issues on a prior comment in this thread. We have to operate at the maturity level to recognize disproportionate force. For example, if you kick me in the back of the leg, I have zero legal or moral right to shoot you. Jokic was uninjured from the Morris foul to stop play; he had zero justification to commit a blindside tackle that damaged Morris' neck so bad he couldn't play for 58 games. I'd have to search for a case where one NBA player with intentional force caused such an extensive injury to another player that they had to sit out that length of time. The only argument Jokic could use is 'self-defense' which is voided since Morris was walking away, and therefore unlikely to cause further harm.

[tontoz]

https://youtu.be/zpVupi8Osk8?si=E7gZzdKuNYjzaBMr

[bdonovan]

Gobert ain't trying to hurt or fight anybody(he did punch his teammate during a game lol). Gobert running back on defence, Klay and McDaniels mid court tugging and swinging each other around. It just so happened Klay was swung right i front of Gobert. Not thinking anything of it, he grabbed Klay to stop the scuffle.

Again, in the heat of the moment dude just trying to stop the fight. Some of you expect him to actually go around Klay(who was 2inches from him)to grab McDaniels intead. Another thing, Gobert didnt even have his arm on Klays neck for a second. Green was waiting a whole 2 minutes of the first quarter to find a reason to get his hands on Gobert. Draymon says, "IT'S MINE TIME TO SHINE BABY!!! YOU GOING TO SLEEP"...LOL

While none of us can know Gobert's actual intent, what we do know is that he had his right arm wrapped around the opposing player's neck (Klay's neck). This is an incredibly stupid way to try to break up a fight, even if it came from the right intent. Even if it wasn't a complete chokehold, it had the appearance of an aggressive action.

I'm not sure why you think it's unreasonable for Gobert to take a step forward to hold McDaniels. I'm re-watching the video now and Gobert could have made one step forward and held back McDaniel while removing Klay's wrist from McDaniel's jersey. That would have been the ideal way to break up a fight.

Particularly the part about holding back your own teammate vs. putting your hands on the opposing player.

Gobert's intent looks reasonable here- he has his arm towards McDaniel trying to stop him fighting, but when you lay hands on the opposing player and your arm is around his neck, the other team's instinctual response will be to immediately attack Gobert, even if his intentions theoretically are on par with Mother Theresa.

[bdonovan]

Link to Celebrity Commentators commenting on Morris-Jokic

Their opinions are utterly meaningless. The facts of the case can all be evaluated by assessing the incident itself.

[tontoz]

Their opinions are utterly meaningless. The facts of the case can all be evaluated by assessing the incident itself.


But your opinion matters :roll:

Your version of events has no resemblence to reality. You actually said Morris was just trying to stop their fast break.

:roll:

[bdonovan]

Kerr starting to teach Draymond what the word accountability means, at the young age of 33. :facepalm

I'm sure he had flashbacks to a memorable Warriors moment when Latrell Sprewell choked Warriors coach PJ Carlisemo and thought "I better speak out against Draymond or I may be next!".

[warriorfan]

spree choked pj after he made a pass in practice and pj told him he would like to see a little bit more mustard on that pass :lol

[bdonovan]

But your opinion matters :roll:

Your version of events has no resemblence to reality. You actually said Morris was just trying to stop their fast break.

:roll:

I'm going to make one response here and then unfortunately add you as #3 on my ignore list because you're reducing the quality of the conversation.

I've already described the principle of Disproportionate Force and how it applies to the Morris/Jokic incident. You've had multiple chances to respond to the logic of why we affix blame on those who use disproportionate force, and you either don't know how to respond to it or choose not to.

I've also emphasized the issue of severity- how the extent of the injury caused by intentional act of force on Jokic's part (injuring another player for 58 games) merits a proportional suspension. You either don't know how to respond to this argument or chosen not to.

Finally, I've shown how Jokic's justification of "self-defense" does not apply since Morris had disengaged and was walking away, so there was no further harm to protect against. Yet again, you don't know how to respond to that, or choose to ignore it.

I think you can tell by now, the way you're handling the discussion isn't productive. I have to mute people who can't discuss in an intellectually honest manner.

[tontoz]

I'm going to make one response here and then unfortunately add you as #3 on my ignore list because you're reducing the quality of the conversation.

I've already described the principle of Disproportionate Force and how it applies to the Morris/Jokic incident. You've had multiple chances to respond to the logic of why we affix blame on those who use disproportionate force, and you either don't know how to respond to it or choose not to.

I've also emphasized the issue of severity- how the extent of the injury caused by intentional act of force on Jokic's part (injuring another player for 58 games) merits a proportional suspension. You either don't know how to respond to this argument or chosen not to.

Finally, I've shown how Jokic's justification of "self-defense" does not apply since Morris had disengaged and was walking away, so there was no further harm to protect against. Yet again, you don't know how to respond to that, or choose to ignore it.

I think you can tell by now, the way you're handling the discussion isn't productive. I have to mute people who can't discuss in an intellectually honest manner.



The fact that you never acknowledged that Morris hit Jokic with a blatant cheap shot is the height of intellectual dishonesty.

Morris was an idiot for turning his back on a guy after throwing a blatant cheap shot. The reason he got hurt is because he turned his back and that's on him.

[bdonovan]

spree choked pj after he made a pass in practice and pj told him he would like to see a little bit more mustard on that pass :lol

Haha, yes I remember. Carlsiemo also got in Spreewell's face I believe which is what caused him to explode. I'm sure any employee with a tough manager from Walmart to State Farm rejoiced at the news. But it's a good example of how not to go full 'tard and choke your boss even though I'm guessing most employees daydream about doing that one day.

[Xiao Yao You]

how PJ kept getting hired is the big question

[morbius]

I already addressed all three issues on a prior comment in this thread. We have to operate at the maturity level to recognize disproportionate force. For example, if you kick me in the back of the leg, I have zero legal or moral right to shoot you. Jokic was uninjured from the Morris foul to stop play; he had zero justification to commit a blindside tackle that damaged Morris' neck so bad he couldn't play for 58 games. I'd have to search for a case where one NBA player with intentional force caused such an extensive injury to another player that they had to sit out that length of time. The only argument Jokic could use is 'self-defense' which is voided since Morris was walking away, and therefore unlikely to cause further harm.

Looking how far Jokic bounced when Morris hit him and how far Morris bounced when he was hit back, I'd say the force used was proportionate, Morris was just less lucky and got injured. No one really blamed Jokic for what happened at the time, everyone agreed that Morris had it coming. Yes, he bumped him from the back, but it was dumb to turn your back after such a dirty play.

[lxlHoTsAuSelxl]

While none of us can know Gobert's actual intent, what we do know is that he had his right arm wrapped around the opposing player's neck (Klay's neck). This is an incredibly stupid way to try to break up a fight, even if it came from the right intent. Even if it wasn't a complete chokehold, it had the appearance of an aggressive action.

I'm not sure why you think it's unreasonable for Gobert to take a step forward to hold McDaniels. I'm re-watching the video now and Gobert could have made one step forward and held back McDaniel while removing Klay's wrist from McDaniel's jersey. That would have been the ideal way to break up a fight.

Particularly the part about holding back your own teammate vs. putting your hands on the opposing player.

Gobert's intent looks reasonable here- he has his arm towards McDaniel trying to stop him fighting, but when you lay hands on the opposing player and your arm is around his neck, the other team's instinctual response will be to immediately attack Gobert, even if his intentions theoretically are on par with Mother Theresa.

Stop listening to Gilbert Arena(trouble maker) and Kenyon Martin(wannabe NBA thug). At the spurt of the moment, Klay was swung around at the same exact time Gobert got there. He wasn't looking to fight anyone and you know this. The only people who trying to justify Draymonds dirty play are just bias towards Gobert. Gobert is a tall ass mofo, you expect him to sit down and grab Klay's waist. For .2 seconds his arms were around Klay's neck/shoulder doesn't mean he needed to be put in a chokehold. Don't matter from Draymonds point of view. Next time understand wtf is going on before assuming. But again, Draymond was already looking for smoke.

Replace Gobert with Lebron, AD, Giannis, Luka, Tatum, Lawhi, PG, you think Draymond will be putting them in a chokehold? And to those who wanted KAT to do something more is silly. Like what Ron Artest would do in that situation.

[lxlHoTsAuSelxl]

The fact that you never acknowledged that Morris hit Jokic with a blatant cheap shot is the height of intellectual dishonesty.

Morris was an idiot for turning his back on a guy after throwing a blatant cheap shot. The reason he got hurt is because he turned his back and that's on him.

You going to give a guy a good cheap shot and turn around, walk away like you nothing happened. Thats on you so don't cry if they retaliate 2 folds.

[Xiao Yao You]

He has a new fan at least

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/n06koorfHgI/maxresdefault.jpg?sqp=-oaymwEmCIAKENAF8quKqQMa8AEB-AH-CYAC0AWKAgwIABABGFUgTShlMA8=&rs=AOn4CLCoyCCM7DN3u1OBpcriy1QfCLAYpw

[Real Men Wear Green]

Stop listening to Gilbert Arena(trouble maker) and Kenyon Martin(wannabe NBA thug). At the spurt of the moment, Klay was swung around at the same exact time Gobert got there. He wasn't looking to fight anyone and you know this. The only people who trying to justify Draymonds dirty play are just bias towards Gobert. Gobert is a tall ass mofo, you expect him to sit down and grab Klay's waist. For .2 seconds his arms were around Klay's neck/shoulder doesn't mean he needed to be put in a chokehold. Don't matter from Draymonds point of view. Next time understand wtf is going on before assuming. But again, Draymond was already looking for smoke.

Replace Gobert with Lebron, AD, Giannis, Luka, Tatum, Lawhi, PG, you think Draymond will be putting them in a chokehold? And to those who wanted KAT to do something more is silly. Like what Ron Artest would do in that situation.

I actually bet Green would attack any of those guys except for possibly James because there might be a friendship or something between them. Draymond Green is the type of guy that fights for real.

[lxlHoTsAuSelxl]

I actually bet Green would attack any of those guys except for possibly James because there might be a friendship or something between them. Draymond Green is the type of guy that fights for real.

Be real, he aint putting nobody but a tall Frenchy in a chokehold. He borderline Ron Artest with his idiotic antics and Kenyon Martin with his "you should be scared of me because in a wannabe NBA thug, im about dat life, im cool" nonsense. He aint no Xavier McDaniels, Oakley, Zbo, or a Ben Wallace. What did Ant say to him, "aint nobody worried about you" then dropped 8 straight on him.

Watch the scuffle CLOSELY, you can tell Green had it out personally for Gobert. Waiting a whole 2 minute of the first quarter to jump on Gobert and grab his neck for a chokehold. After he pulled him away from Klay but still continue to hold the choke for a total of 9sec(from reports). That choke was personal, from the heart.

[Xiao Yao You]

Be real, he aint putting nobody but a tall Frenchy in a chokehold. He borderline Ron Artest with his idiotic antics and Kenyon Martin with his "you should be scared of me because in a wannabe NBA thug, im about dat life, im cool" nonsense. He aint no Xavier McDaniels, Oakley, Zbo, or a Ben Wallace. What did Ant say to him, "aint nobody worried about you" then dropped 8 straight on him.

Watch the scuffle CLOSELY, you can tell Green had it out personally for Gobert. Waiting a whole 2 minute of the first quarter to jump on Gobert and grab his neck for a chokehold. After he pulled him away from Klay but still continue to hold the choke for a total of 9sec(from reports). That choke was personal, from the heart.

he's definitely more like Rodman and Artest

[SATAN]

Watch the scuffle CLOSELY, you can tell Green had it out personally for Gobert. Waiting a whole 2 minute of the first quarter to jump on Gobert and grab his neck for a chokehold. After he pulled him away from Klay but still continue to hold the choke for a total of 9sec(from reports). That choke was personal, from the heart.

It was easy to see Draymond didn't like Gobert a long time ago. They should just box it out for charity or something. At least if Draymond gets his ass kicked...and I absolutely hope he gets his ass kicked...He can endure memes for a week and shrug it off as some bs for charity.

[Xiao Yao You]

It was easy to see Draymond didn't like Gobert a long time ago. They should just box it out for charity or something. At least if Draymond gets his ass kicked...and I absolutely hope he gets his ass kicked...He can endure memes for a week and shrug it off as some bs for charity.

Gobert is ready. Not sure Green would show up. I wouldn't want to mess with that reach

[Axe]

Just almost a week ago.


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=AZ0M6PXwMwA

[Real Men Wear Green]

Be real, he aint putting nobody but a tall Frenchy in a chokehold. He borderline Ron Artest with his idiotic antics and Kenyon Martin with his "you should be scared of me because in a wannabe NBA thug, im about dat life, im cool" nonsense. He aint no Xavier McDaniels, Oakley, Zbo, or a Ben Wallace. What did Ant say to him, "aint nobody worried about you" then dropped 8 straight on him.

Watch the scuffle CLOSELY, you can tell Green had it out personally for Gobert. Waiting a whole 2 minute of the first quarter to jump on Gobert and grab his neck for a chokehold. After he pulled him away from Klay but still continue to hold the choke for a total of 9sec(from reports). That choke was personal, from the heart.

A few years ago he beat up some Michigan State football player. Granted he's a lot bigger than Poole but a telltale sign of a go who fights is that there's no time spent daring the other guy. He just launched the punch. And as much as people make fun of Gobert, he's 7 feet tall. A guy that doesn't fight isn't putting him in a choke hold.

[lxlHoTsAuSelxl]

Just almost a week ago.


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=AZ0M6PXwMwA

That clip only show Donovan fouling Draymond. Go watch the play right before that. Also 2:30 minute mark, you see some of Green's muay thai ninja knee, kicks. Dude is the Ron Artest, Dennis Rodman with a mix of Grayson Allen(but not as dirty) this era.
https://youtu.be/_DKS9b8F0ss?si=-Ho_ye_adR1AJ4R_

Scroll through the seasons and guess who is always up there in techs.
https://www.teamrankings.com/nba/player-stat/fouls-technical?rate=season-totals

[Axe]

That clip only show Donovan fouling Draymond. Go watch the play right before that. Also 2:30 minute mark, you see some of Green's muay thai ninja knee, kicks. Dude is the Ron Artest, Dennis Rodman with a mix of Grayson Allen(but not as dirty) this era.
https://youtu.be/_DKS9b8F0ss?si=-Ho_ye_adR1AJ4R_

Scroll through the seasons and guess who is always up there in techs.
https://www.teamrankings.com/nba/player-stat/fouls-technical?rate=season-totals
Oh sorry, was meant to post this one instead.


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Eo_J3UDx56U

I agree with you, the donkey is very aggressive even before. And it looks like it's just gonna get worse the more he gets older.

[Xiao Yao You]

“The best thing about Draymond and the thing people may not know, at least my relationship with Draymond, he will listen,” Myers said. “He does listen. (https://theathletic.com/5072616/2023/11/18/bob-myers-warriors-draymond-green/) If I ever felt like he wasn’t listening, I wouldn’t waste my time. But he will listen. I think that’s the misconception with Draymond — (that) he doesn’t listen to what anybody says, just does what he wants. I think he listens, but he still makes mistakes. And so if I ever felt like in my relationship with him he stopped listening or I wasn’t getting through or he felt like he knew everything, then I would have said years ago, ‘It’s not worth my time, he’s not going to listen to me, he’s not going to listen to anybody.’

– via Tim Kawakami @ The Athletic (https://theathletic.com/5072616/2023/11/18/bob-myers-warriors-draymond-green/)




he might be listening but he certainly isn't learning