Tatum vs Luka

[AirBonner]

Who is the more complete player? Tatum’s offense looks like it has caught up to Lukas and dare I say looks more polished and versatile? Tatum is a legit 3 level scorer and has been working out of the post much more this season. I do believe Lukas offense has plateaued since his rookie season and has had more games where he flat out needs to be taken off the court for poor play. On defense Tatum is all nba level and Luka is not close (but has improved)

Thoughts?

[90sgoat]

It's not close, Luka is much better at everything.

Tatum had shooting, but Luka is shooting 42% from 3 this season. If he keeps this up, then that's a massive, incredible improvement.

That's the difference between Luka and Tatum, and pretty much everyone else, Luka keeps improving significantly, each and every season.

Tatum is still Tatum, still likes to jab step and step back 3, but where's the improvement in playmaking? Defense?

[SouBeachTalents]

It's not close, Luka is much better at everything.

Tatum had shooting, but Luka is shooting 42% from 3 this season. If he keeps this up, then that's a massive, incredible improvement.

That's the difference between Luka and Tatum, and pretty much everyone else, Luka keeps improving significantly, each and every season.

Tatum is still Tatum, still likes to jab step and step back 3, but where's the improvement in playmaking? Defense?
I honestly can't even tell if you're trolling with this post. Claiming Luka is better defensively than Tatum is SO stupid, the only rational way to interpret it would be trolling.

[Manny98]

Is this a serious question :roll:

[1987_Lakers]

As far as a two way player, it's Tatum, but Luka is the better player overall.

[90sgoat]

I honestly can't even tell if you're trolling with this post. Claiming Luka is better defensively than Tatum is SO stupid, the only rational way to interpret it would be trolling.

Tatum is obviously better on defense, but he's not a great defender, not a good enough defender to offset it.

[tontoz]

In the playoffs Luka's advantage on offense increases. Tatum is obviously a much better defender.

At this point the big question with Tatum is his ability to execute well late in big games instead of falling back into bad habits. He tries to do too much at times and relies too much on his jumper which can go cold at the wrong times.

[Axe]

@ImKobe

[hold this L]

It's not close, Luka is much better at everything.

Tatum had shooting, but Luka is shooting 42% from 3 this season. If he keeps this up, then that's a massive, incredible improvement.

That's the difference between Luka and Tatum, and pretty much everyone else, Luka keeps improving significantly, each and every season.

Tatum is still Tatum, still likes to jab step and step back 3, but where's the improvement in playmaking? Defense?

Tatum is a significantly better defender, it's not even remotely close. He's the clear cut better two way player, and Luka is the clear cut better player.

[AirBonner]

In the playoffs Luka's advantage on offense increases. Tatum is obviously a much better defender.

At this point the big question with Tatum is his ability to execute well late in big games instead of falling back into bad habits. He tries to do too much at times and relies too much on his jumper which can go cold at the wrong times.

This is true. Tatum does fall off some but he hasn’t completely quit before like Luka has. Luka missed the playins NOT EVEN THE PLAYOFFS THE FRIGGEN PLAYINS with Kyrie. That’s bad

[highwhey]

tatum is so overrated as a star player. he's not a tier 1 star, and it's debatable if he's even a tier 2 using recency bias. dude dunked on Bron once and all mof a sudden people spoke of him as a superstar lol.

Luke all day long and it's not remotely close. the 2 are not even in the same realm.

[AirBonner]

tatum is so overrated as a star player. he's not a tier 1 star, and it's debatable if he's even a tier 2 using recency bias. dude dunked on Bron once and all mof a sudden people spoke of him as a superstar lol.

Luke all day long and it's not remotely close. the 2 are not even in the same realm.

You only hate Tatum cuz he’s on the Celtics. Tatum has done more than bitch ass Booker in a shorter time

[highwhey]

You only hate Tatum cuz he’s on the Celtics. Tatum has done more than bitch ass Booker in a shorter time

i mean if that was the case, why am i praising Luka...the guy that owned Booker in the playoffs?

[Xiao Yao You]

This is true. Tatum does fall off some but he hasn’t completely quit before like Luka has. Luka missed the playins NOT EVEN THE PLAYOFFS THE FRIGGEN PLAYINS with Kyrie. That’s bad

but it wasn't his fault!

[tontoz]

This is true. Tatum does fall off some but he hasn’t completely quit before like Luka has. Luka missed the playins NOT EVEN THE PLAYOFFS THE FRIGGEN PLAYINS with Kyrie. That’s bad

Right, let's just ignore that they made the WCF the year before and then gutted the team :facepalm

[FultzNationRISE]

Tatum’s come out the gate blazing this year, but the question is, if he goes cold for a series in the playoffs will he adjust in a way that helps the team best, or will he spin his tires in the mud to prove he has “mamba mentality”?

[Airupthere]

One steps up in clutch moments and the other folds

[AirBonner]

Luka was the one being compared to Bron entering the league. Imagine peak LeBron missing the playoffs with Kyrie

[FultzNationRISE]

Luka was the one being compared to Bron entering the league. Imagine peak LeBron missing the playoffs with Kyrie

Well that was the fault of the people doing the comparing, they should have known better. There will NEVER be another LeGOAT.

Still, Kareem missed the playoffs, MJ went 1-9 and so on. It can happen, even to people who are Top 10 but not on Lebron’s level.

[Thorpesaurous]

I think this is a lot closer than it seems. I would lean Luka because of the vision and the playmaking is at a true #1 lead player level. And one of the things I think Tatum is underrated for is elite rebounding from that wing position, but Luka also brings that to the table. Defensively I do think the gap is pretty huge. Tatum can actually play 2 through 4 defensively seamlessly, and even make due on most 1s, and can provide enough rim protection to outplay his position. He's one of the most switchable players in the entire league, let alone among players of his quality. His offensive game is still way too jumper reliant though.

The thing that makes it tricky is the ball use. I personally believe that Luka's advantage as a true 1 is the separating factor, however, if it starts to get to a point where you have to wonder about fit, Tatum is one of the most universal fit guys in league. He can play on or off the ball with just about anyone. Even in the small sample size, it's interesting that the fit between Tatum and Porzingus is already better than what Luka got out of him.

For now, my instinct is to take the one of one playmaking. But the extra malleability with Tatum to me makes this closer than I think is generally considered.

[CurryOverLebron]

Tatum is the more successful player. He's been to conference finals like 5 times already.

[Xiao Yao You]

Tatum is the more successful player. He's been to conference finals like 5 times already.

can't blame Luka!

[tontoz]

Tatum is the more successful player. He's been to conference finals like 5 times already.


Actually it's 4 times. One of those times was his rookie year when he averaged 14 ppg, 18 in the playoffs. He wasn't the player he is now.

They also made the ECF the year before he got there. Tatum was drafted by a team that won 53 games.

[Real Men Wear Green]

Hopeless thread. Basketball fans will absolutely value 4 or 5 more assists per game over one guy being an excellent defender while the other is terrible. Doncic is putting up all time great numbers. People will pay lip service to things like defense or ball dominance but they don't really care.
Actually it's 4 times. One of those times was his rookie year when he averaged 14 ppg, 18 in the playoffs. He wasn't the player he is now.

They also made the ECF the year before he got there. Tatum was drafted by a team that won 53 games.

Technically true but the team traded their top scorer for a different player who proceeded to get injured and lost key contributors to create the cap space to sign a star that d didn't even play a single game. The reason that Tatum's scoring average leapt like that in the postseason is that Irving got hurt. So the fact that Thomas and Crowder led the team on a run the year before isn't relevant. Led by a gang of equals after Irving got hurt that team was completely different.

[90sgoat]

When Luka wins his first ring, people will look at this discussion like they did Jokic vs Embiid.

Luka is an all time great and from what I've seen this season, he is very close to being good enough, mature enough and having a good enough team, to actually pull it off. Incidentally, his biggest challenge is Jokic who is a couple years ahead in all those things.

[Real Men Wear Green]

When Luka wins his first ring, people will look at this discussion like they did Jokic vs Embiid.

Luka is an all time great and from what I've seen this season, he is very close to being good enough, mature enough and having a good enough team, to actually pull it off. Incidentally, his biggest challenge is Jokic who is a couple years ahead in all those things.

Neither guy has a ring and if we were to guess one as being closer to that than the other it would be Tatum. If you like Doncic you shouldn't make the argument about winning because Tatum is better set up for that and will be for the foreseeable future. Tatum is with such a better run organization that comparing them based on winning is unfair. And it's also very possible that due to their styles Tatum is easier to fit talented players around. Doncic is not going to average 30b points and 10 assists in Tatum's place and he would be the weak link in the defense. Tatum couldn't do 10 assists for the mavericks of course but it could be a good thing if some of the other players got to shine more and Dallas would have a guy that can defend Durant.

[tontoz]

Both guys have been All-NBA 1st team the last two years so we are splitting hairs here realistically.

[3ba11]

Luka's team has been outside the top 25 in assists for every year since his 3rd season in the league.

So Tatum is much better because he can play more styles of ball including high-assist teams that move the ball. - Tatum offers coaches more strategic capacity. while Luka doesn't, so he's inferior.. maybe vastly

[Real Men Wear Green]

Luka's team has been outside the top 25 in assists for every year since his 3rd season in the league.

So Tatum is much better because he can play more styles of ball including high-assist teams that move the ball. - Tatum offers coaches more strategic capacity. while Luka doesn't, so he's inferior.. maybe vastly

The Celtics are 19th in assists. So far it's not a true flaw but if you're dumb enough to judge an individual player based on his team's assists you should know things like that.

[FultzNationRISE]

When Luka wins his first ring, people will look at this discussion like they did Jokic vs Embiid.

Luka is an all time great and from what I've seen this season, he is very close to being good enough, mature enough and having a good enough team, to actually pull it off. Incidentally, his biggest challenge is Jokic who is a couple years ahead in all those things.


Winning a chip always requires the team to come thru, so Tatum may well win a title before Doncic.

That said, every bit of available evidence suggests Luka is the preferred player in a playoff scenario. Maybe that changes this year, but until then the choice of any impartial observer (which includes neither you nor some of the people stumping JT :lol) should be pretty clear.

[3ba11]

The Celtics are 19th in assists.


thru how many games?

They were 7th last year - Luka isn't capable of that...

And team assists isn't the end-all-be-all but it's an example of how Tatum allows coaches greater strategic capacity - the fact that Luka isn't capable of a high-assist team is a knock on him - he ties a coaches hands by forcing them to put the ball in 1 guy's hands.. That makes tatum's skillset better... The raw and advanced stats are pretty much a wash so these are the kinds of things that matter (the team ceiling that each guy's skillset yields - Tatum yields a superior team ceiling)

[Xiao Yao You]

Winning a chip always requires the team to come thru, so Tatum may well win a title before Doncic.

That said, every bit of available evidence suggests Luka is the preferred player in a playoff scenario. Maybe that changes this year, but until then the choice of any impartial observer (which includes neither you nor some of the people stumping JT :lol) should be pretty clear.

apparently it's up to the team to get you to the play-in as well

[tontoz]

thru how many games?

They were 7th last year - Luka isn't capable of that...

And team assists isn't the end-all-be-all but it's an example of how Tatum allows coaches greater strategic capacity - the fact that Luka isn't capable of a high-assist team is a knock on him - he ties a coaches hands by forcing them to put the ball in 1 guy's hands.. That makes tatum's skillset better... The raw and advanced stats are pretty much a wash so these are the kinds of things that matter (the team ceiling that each guy's skillset yields - Tatum yields a superior team ceiling)



Dallas is currently 2nd in the league in offensive efficiency which is far more important than assist rate.

[Manny98]

Has Luka ever choked in a playoff series like Tatum in 2022 against the Warriors?

Has Tatum ever won as the underdog like Luka against the Suns?

Defense is irrelevant as Tatum isn't exactly locking people up

Luka is two tiers above Tatum as a player

[Real Men Wear Green]

Has Luka ever choked in a playoff series like Tatum in 2022 against the Warriors?

Has Tatum ever won as the underdog like Luka against the Suns?

Defense is irrelevant as Tatum isn't exactly locking people up

Luka is two tiers above Tatum as a player
The kind of high-level analysis we have come to expect.

[Manny98]

The kind of high-level analysis we have come to expect.

It's irrelevant because neither are bringing much on that end, learn to read before jumping down my throat

[Real Men Wear Green]

It's irrelevant because neither are bringing much on that end, learn to read before jumping down my throat

You are confusing me with Kyrie...my criticism of your ignorance was rather mild. Tatum has always been a good defender at worst and at times spectacular. You're a Nets fan. You believe Doncic could defend Durant the way that Tatum did en route to the Celtic sweep? Tatum can and has gotten apps on great scorers in critical situations. This may change with Jrue Holiday on board but historically if the Celtics needed a stop in a great scoring wing the guy they want on him is Tatum.

[Manny98]

You are confusing me with Kyrie...my criticism of your ignorance was rather mild. Tatum has always been a good defender at worst and at times spectacular. You're a Nets fan. You believe Doncic could defend Durant the way that Tatum did en route to the Celtic sweep? Tatum can and has gotten apps on great scorers in critical situations. This may change with Jrue Holiday on board but historically if the Celtics needed a stop in a great scoring wing the guy they want on him is Tatum.
Who has Tatum locked up since, Butler cooked him two years in a row :roll:

The slight edge on defense doesn't make up for Lukas massive gap on the offensive end

[FultzNationRISE]

The kind of high-level analysis we have come to expect.

It's basically irrelevant, Luka being a negative defender is a myth at this point, and lockdown defenders arent as important as they were before the pace and space, switch everything era. Top players rarely guard each other anyway to avoid foul trouble. The only players whose individual defense is a big deal to their value are bigs who can protect the rim without being exploited on the perimeter. So Embiid, Porzingis, Yama, Holmgren types. Everyone else just needs to know how to rotate, and be able to outscore their opponent.

It's an oversimplification but basically true. Luka scoring more consistently in big games and getting better shots for teammates is just more important than Tatum being able to hound Scottie Barnes and Lugentz Dort on the perimeter.

[Real Men Wear Green]

Who has Tatum locked up since, Butler cooked him two years in a row :roll:

The slight edge on defense doesn't make up for Lukas massive gap on the offensive end

You don't understand how Miami used Butler. They almost never just left him one on one with Tatum or Brown. They set a pick with either a big or their point guard to create a mismatch that they can abuse. The Degeneres edge is not slight. You clearly don't know what you're talking about.

[Real Men Wear Green]

It's basically irrelevant, Luka being a negative defender is a myth at this point, and lockdown defenders arent as important as they were before the pace and space, switch everything era. Top players rarely guard each other anyway to avoid foul trouble. The only players whose individual defense is a big deal to their value are bigs who can protect the rim without being exploited on the perimeter. So Embiid, Porzingis, Yama, Holmgren types. Everyone else just needs to know how to rotate, and be able to outscore their opponent.

It's an oversimplification but basically true. Luka scoring more consistently in big games and getting better shots for teammates is just more important than Tatum being able to hound Scottie Barnes and Lugentz Dort on the perimeter.

The way you post it's like you don't watch basketball. The Celtics intentionally put Tatum on Durant for a whole playoff series. They want him and Brown defending high scoring wings.

[FultzNationRISE]

The way you post it's like you don't watch basketball. The Celtics intentionally put Tatum on Durant for a whole playoff series. They want him and Brown defending high scoring wings.

You're relying on one specific series/matchup to make a point and have no other examples. He didnt shut down Harden last year, but rather got lucky that Harden shut himself down when it was do-or-die, as expected. He didnt shut Butler down. He never shut Lebron down. Giannis tore them apart in 2022, the second best series G ever played besides the 2021 finals. Did he shut Curry down in the finals? I dont think so.


You're desperately defending outdated talking points. Your posts are a constant embarrassment.

[Real Men Wear Green]

You're relying on one specific series/matchup to make a point and have no other examples. He didnt shut down Harden last year, but rather got lucky that Harden shut himself down when it was do-or-die, as expected. He didnt shut Butler down. He never shut Lebron down. Giannis tore them apart in 2022, the second best series G ever played besides the 2021 finals. Did he shut Curry down in the finals? I dont think so.


You're desperately defending outdated talking points. Your posts are a constant embarrassment.

You are seriously talking about not shutting Lebron James and Steph Curry down as if that proves a defender is bad? You really don't seem to watch sports. Harden was left to JB (you will note I said Tatum and Brown) after he had the explosion in game 1. The Celtics wanted to put Tatum on Butler but Miami used picks to force switches. That is also a part of basketball, FYI.

[FultzNationRISE]

You are seriously talking about not shutting Lebron James and Steph Curry down as if that proves a defender is bad? You really don't seem to watch sports. Harden was left to JB (you will note I said Tatum and Brown) after he had the explosion in game 1. The Celtics wanted to put Tatum on Butler but Miami used picks to force switches. That is also a part of basketball, FYI.

Yes.

He’s not a shutdown defender to the extent of a current Aaron Gordon for example. If he was that type of valuable youd have more of a case.

Tatum is a GOOD defender. Hes a better defender than Luka but it’s not a seismic gap. His ability to play good man defense on one guy at a time does not compensate the fact Luka is a more consistent scorer AND playmaker in big games across multiple years and playoff series.

You can shut one guy down and still give up points, thereby not achieving the goal of the defensive possession. If your team scores points, it achieves the goal of its offensive possession.

Pretty simple.

[Real Men Wear Green]

So aeration Gordon sits down Steph Curry. Interesting. And stupid, of course. Moving on.

[PeroAntic]

Doncic is better due to his offensive IQ. But Jimmy is better than both lol.

[3ba11]

Dallas is currently 2nd in the league in offensive efficiency which is far more important than assist rate.


The regular season has teams flying from city to city each night and playing a different team (no adjustments) - it's a bunch of pick-up games, so many teams achieve good ortg like steve nash but then collapse when adjustments are made in the playoffs..

so ortg is important but it's just one measure.. the ability to have a high-assist team indicates a higher strategic capacity that will translate to the playoffs and we've seen this with Curry, Kobe, MJ, Jokic, or Duncan's teams - their brand of ball (ball movement) translates better in the playoffs than Luka, Nash, CP3 or Lebron's ball-domination (pre-decision).. it's a clear trend of ball-domination getting solved by underdogs like the 09' Magic, while the ball movement brands eventually break through and have dynasties that stand the test of time.

[tpols]

The regular season has teams flying from city to city each night and playing a different team (no adjustments) - it's a bunch of pick-up games, so many teams achieve good ortg like steve nash but then collapse when adjustments are made in the playoffs..

so ortg is important but it's just one measure.. the ability to have a high-assist team indicates a higher strategic capacity that will translate to the playoffs and we've seen this with Curry, Kobe, MJ, Jokic, or Duncan's teams - their brand of ball (ball movement) translates better in the playoffs than Luka, Nash, CP3 or Lebron's ball-domination (pre-decision).. it's a clear trend of ball-domination getting solved by underdogs like the 09' Magic, while the ball movement brands eventually break through and have dynasties that stand the test of time.

The Nash led Suns were always a top ranked assist team and were a screwjob away from being champions in 2007. In addition to making the WCFs in other years. They were definitely legit.

[fsvr54]

Luka is better

[3ba11]

The Nash led Suns were always a top ranked assist team and were a screwjob away from being champions in 2007. In addition to making the WCFs in other years. They were definitely legit.


Actually those Suns were definitely legit - Nash elevated Raj, Marion, Barbosa and company to new heights and they would've beaten the Spurs without the bad luck and bad breaks.. Nash was such an all-time jumpshooter, which makes him different from Luka, Lebron or even CP3

[tpols]

Actually those Suns were definitely legit - Nash elevated Raj, Marion, Barbosa and company to new heights and they would've beaten the Spurs without the bad luck and bad breaks.. Nash was such an all-time jumpshooter, which makes him different from Luka, Lebron or even CP3

It's moreso Nash was pass first and facilitated ball movement. The suns were #1 assist ranked team 2005-2010. Luka looks to score first. But I'd still say he's better than Tatum because he's a big balls player. He doesn't shy away from the moment scoring wise like cp3, Bron, or Tatum. He actually relishes shitting on the opposition and looks to enjoy it.

[3ba11]

It's moreso Nash was pass first and facilitated ball movement. The suns were #1 assist ranked team 2005-2010. Luka looks to score first. But I'd still say he's better than Tatum because he's a big balls player. He doesn't shy away from the moment scoring wise like cp3, Bron, or Tatum. He actually relishes shitting on the opposition and looks to enjoy it.


I can go with that

as a legit argument for Luka over Tatum

Luka has a complete boss mentality where he believes nobody is touching him every time he steps on the court and complete confidence in the clutch - he doesn't get down or discouraged by misses.. Mamba mentality

[k0kakw0rld]

Tatum reached the NBA finals. Something Luka has yet to do.