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View Full Version : Prime Dwight scored 20.5 ppg on 59.5% FG and 61.3% TS... what would he average today?



Im Still Ballin
11-22-2023, 01:53 AM
From 2008 to 2012, Dwight Howard played in 375 regular season games and 53 playoff games—a total of 428 games. Roughly equivalent to 5¼ season's worth.

The playoff sample increases the average strength of opposition, so this is a really good quality sample. Dwight's performance didn't drop off in the postseason sample. How many great players can say that? Many legends dropped off significantly.

Over those games 428 games, Dwight averaged 20.5 ppg and shot 59.5% FG and 61.3% TS with heaves/threes removed. He did this in a league that had an average true shooting percentage of 53.9% TS and a two-point field goal percentage of 48.5% 2PT.

Therefore, his relative efficiency was +7.2 rTS and +11.0 r2PT. If you did it by percentage, it would be 113.7% adjusted TS% and 122.7% adjusted 2PT%. Or in other words, 13.7% and 22.7% above league average.

Last season's average true shooting percentage and two-point field goal percentage were 58.1% TS and 54.8% 2PT. By simply adjusting for these numbers using both methods, Dwight's adjusted 2023 true shooting percentage and two-point field goal percentage would be 66.1% TS and 67.2% 2PT. Using the other method would yield 65.3% TS (+7.2 rTS) and 65.8% 2PT (+11.0 r2PT).

Impressive!

But what about the 20.5 ppg? We need to adjust it for the new 2023 2PT%.

3058 2PTM / 5140 2PTA = 59.5% 2PT

5140 x .672 = 3454.1 2PTM (adjusted 2PT% version)
5140 x .658 = 3382.1 2PTM (r2PT version)

3454.1 x 2 = 6908.2 points
3382.1 x 2 = 6764.2 points

6908.2 points - 6116 points = 792.2 extra points
6764.2 points - 6116 points = 648.2 extra points

8791 points + 792.2 extra points = 9583.2 total points / 428 games = 22.4 ppg
8791 points + 648.2 extra points = 9439.2 total points / 428 games = 22.1 ppg

So, there you have it:

- 22.4 ppg on 67.2% FG and 66.9% TS with heaves/threes removed (relative TS%)
- 22.1 ppg on 65.8% FG and 65.9% TS with heaves/threes removed (rTS)

I think those ppg numbers may even slightly underestimate Dwight in today's league. The increased screening, rolling, and switching causing mismatches, shooting, spacing, and pace favor his hybrid PnR-post-up offensive game. As much as 2008-2012 Orlando played a protomodern style, they'd be one of the least three-point shooting, pick-and-roll teams today. And the slowest paced.

Dwight would be rolling, cutting, and running the break more, while his post-up volume would cut out a lot of the inefficient fat. He'd get more high-quality deep position post-ups on mismatches while selectively isolating in the post on the right matchups. He'd also be facing smaller lineups.

Maybe 23 ppg at most. Somewhere between 22.5 to 23 seems right to me. If you don't think that's possible, consider that AD was putting up like 28-30 ppg on 60%+ FG over like 35+ games after doubling his screening frequency and basically stopping shooting jump shots. Focused purely on playing as the roll man to get easy baskets in the paint and at the rim.

This video from Thinking Basketball covers this:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zkqiLMoJh6I

As good as AD is playing like this, Dwight is much better. He's perhaps the best ever at playing like this. Using the PnR to not only get lobs and rolls but also deep inside position and to dominate the offensive glass. Weaponizing his verticality and power game to get easy buckets.

nayte
11-22-2023, 06:24 AM
I am probably wrong but Dwight didn't want to play pnr back then.wanted to be a post up scorer ?

dankok8
11-22-2023, 11:09 AM
Considering league average TS% is 5% higher today probably 23 ppg on 66 %TS or thereabouts.

EDIT: My quick mental math agrees with OP almost exactly! :lol

lxlHoTsAuSelxl
11-22-2023, 11:16 AM
The pace is faster and you see end game scores 130-140 everyday. D12 would avg 25+ in todays game.

SaltyMeatballs
11-22-2023, 11:18 AM
I am probably wrong but Dwight didn't want to play pnr back then.wanted to be a post up scorer ?

Correct. He refused to run PnR with Steve Nash and carried that on in Houston. Dwight could've been much more if he wasn't so damn stubborn and immature

Im Still Ballin
11-22-2023, 11:56 AM
I am probably wrong but Dwight didn't want to play pnr back then.wanted to be a post up scorer ?


Correct. He refused to run PnR with Steve Nash and carried that on in Houston. Dwight could've been much more if he wasn't so damn stubborn and immature

That was more true once he left Orlando. But the discussion about Dwight not running PnR is a bit more complicated. In Orlando, he did; but the plays finished with a deep post-up possession a lot of the time. I refer to it as a hybrid PnR-post-up. Here's how it was described by coach Stan Van Gundy:


Van Gundy never much liked the straight post-up anyway. If Howard was going to get the ball on the block, Van Gundy preferred it to come either in semi-transition or after Howard set a high screen and rumbled down to the block. He could get deep position that way, so that he could catch and go right into a monster move.

“We wanted to get it to him as close to the basket as possible,” Van Gundy says, “to a place where no dribble was necessary.” Howard mostly catches the ball two steps outside the paint now. Basically, every defender is Jason Collins from the 2011 playoffs.


Orlando was running PnR less for dribble penetration and more to get Dwight deep position in the post. Looks like this in practice:

https://i.ibb.co/Wk0CM7Q/7pynh4.gif

https://i.ibb.co/hRjQc5J/7rjr6y.gif

Towards the end of his time in Orlando, he began doing more post-isolation plays. He was effective at it, but once he injured his back he was never the same. Instantly went from like 50%+ FG on those isos to like 44% FG and below.

Xiao Yao You
11-22-2023, 12:46 PM
Correct. He refused to run PnR with Steve Nash and carried that on in Houston. Dwight could've been much more if he wasn't so damn stubborn and immature

he'd still be in the league instead of Taiwan :lol

ILLsmak
11-22-2023, 01:11 PM
25, but I think his mobility as a rebounder would be where he would shine. There really isn't anyone in the NBA that can do that.

-Smak

Im Still Ballin
11-23-2023, 02:54 AM
Considering league average TS% is 5% higher today probably 23 ppg on 66 %TS or thereabouts.

EDIT: My quick mental math agrees with OP almost exactly! :lol

Bang on the money. :applause:

Im Still Ballin
11-24-2023, 05:06 AM
To build on the argument for Dwight's ppg and efficiency going up in today's era:

The amount of dunks per season has gone up exponentially. And most of that increase has been by centers. As I said before, it has never been easier for unskilled bigs to score. There's just so much space to work with.

https://i.ibb.co/WDKb42b/download.png
https://i.ibb.co/jzdKmFP/download-1.png
https://i.ibb.co/pf9C3sg/download-2.png
https://i.ibb.co/6YpNmwp/download-3.png

And that's just up to 2019.

And here's a stat that shows how unique Dwight is:


Shaquille O'Neal and Dwight Howard are the only players who got more than 30% of their points through dunks while averaging more than 20 points per game.

Im Still Ballin
11-24-2023, 05:08 AM
More evidence to support said claims. The switch rate of centers during ball screens has more than doubled over the last decade. This is due to the rise in pull-up three-point shots. Defenses are switching during ball screens to counter that outside shooting threat from the ball handler.

https://i.ibb.co/2YbYPWR/1-2-VVTW8-Hjd-YF5-Hh-Ahyj99y-Q.webp

And these switch-heavy defenses have created more mismatches on the court. There was a great article last season about the rise in post-up scoring on mismatches.


https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/how-nba-teams-are-bringing-the-post-up-back-to-life/

Post-ups are now becoming dynamic. The percentage of post-ups that have featured a positional mismatch — with a center defended by a guard or forward (or a forward defended by a guard) — has increased from approximately one-quarter in 2013-14 to just over half this season, per Second Spectrum. Those mismatches have to come from somewhere, and such advantages can be created by other events on the court — like pick and rolls or handoffs — before being converted into points via the post.

https://i.ibb.co/SBx6rV9/8V4gTDj.png

The dropping frequency of the post-up has coincided with the rise of the hand-off. Similar to picks, approximately a quarter of hand-offs result in switches this season, creating a potentially advantageous mismatch. (Less than 10 percent of hand-offs were switched by the defense in 2013-14.) And as leaguewide frequency for post-ups has plummeted by almost 6 plays per 100 possessions from 2013-14 to today, hand-off frequency has increased by almost 8 plays per 100 possessions. But a post-up can flow out of a hand-off, especially after the defense is forced to switch or rotate or open up some other weakness.

nayte
11-24-2023, 06:46 AM
Bang on the money. :applause:

I don't believe you can just math that and that is what would happen but can't deny in this day it's probably true