How many points will Prime Scottie Pippen average in today’s nba? [Archive] - Message Board Basketball Forum

3ba11

11-27-2023, 11:33 AM

We can prove that shooting is critical in today's game because Jokic is considered a god, yet his goat PER needed the best shooting splits ever from his sidekick to win a title.. Whereas Pippen had the worst splits ever in 96' and 98' - no one could win with that today, not even a 34 PER (Jokic).

Accordingly, Pippen's historic bricklaying would be like Ben Simmons in today's game or any other bricklayer that struggles to rise above role player status - he was mostly a transition player or dunker in the 90's and that would be even moreso today where shooting is critical to win. There's no system in today's game where a Simmons-like bricklayer can average 20 and Pippen was nothing outside the system (14 ppg)

dankok8

11-27-2023, 11:38 AM

25 or so seems pretty realistic. He would be a load to handle on the fast break.

3ba11

11-27-2023, 12:07 PM

25 or so seems pretty realistic. He would be a load to handle on the fast break.

So now a fast break player can get 25 ppg?

A bricklayer with zero iso game or "bag" can average 25 in today's format that requires these things?..

What non-shooting, non-iso player is doing that currently?

How does Pippen's skillset and mental makeup not compare exactly to Ben Simmons?

What was Pippen without getting a 7 year apprenticeship in a system - what was he outside of MJ's wing or the system? He was literally nothing in 89' or 99.. No one benefitted from the winning spotlight more than him, which makes him the most overrated player ever..

The stats confirm that he was an Iggy or Larry Nance-caliber but the winning spotlight inflated him to top 30 status - that's massive overrating (the most ever)

It's also a fact that you guys are really dumb about basketball.. REALLY dumb.. it's amazing tbh

ShawkFactory

11-27-2023, 01:52 PM

I think 23-24 is about reasonable. He did 20-21 in a much slower-paced environment. With the open courts and smaller bigs, he would have more space to get a head of steam and finish.

His defensive length on the perimeter would be even more useful now.

FultzNationRISE

11-27-2023, 02:36 PM

Without MJ to hog the touches away? Pip's dropping 28 a night minimum, with 8 boards and 7 assists. He's basically Lebron with just a littttttle icing off the cake in each category across the board. Lebron carried teams to 10 finals, Scottie carried teams to six. Lebron nailed two pop queens (that we know of), Pippen nailed one.

It aint happenstance and it aint no ****ing surprise neither. Pip was a serious baller.

Also, I wanna thank Louie John Buluran for asking such a poignant question to get the discussion flowing. This is why he landed the role of Mr. Aguinaldo in the upcoming production, "Size Matters." (https://www.imdb.com/name/nm10089839/) Because he's hung like a god damn wild donkey.

Big respect :applause:

dankok8

11-27-2023, 02:46 PM

So now a fast break player can get 25 ppg?

A bricklayer with zero iso game or "bag" can average 25 in today's format that requires these things?..

What non-shooting, non-iso player is doing that currently?

How does Pippen's skillset and mental makeup not compare exactly to Ben Simmons?

What was Pippen without getting a 7 year apprenticeship in a system - what was he outside of MJ's wing or the system? He was literally nothing in 89' or 99.. No one benefitted from the winning spotlight more than him, which makes him the most overrated player ever..

The stats confirm that he was an Iggy or Larry Nance-caliber but the winning spotlight inflated him to top 30 status - that's massive overrating (the most ever)

It's also a fact that you guys are really dumb about basketball.. REALLY dumb.. it's amazing tbh

Pippen is 6'7'', long arms, elite first step, 48 inch vert... In today's offense-first era, he would be very tough to stop from getting to the cup. And when in transition, he was super deadly back then too. Pip could also pass pretty well but that's outside the scope of this thread.

beasted

11-27-2023, 02:51 PM

Foster5k

11-27-2023, 03:34 PM

As the no 1 scoring option i think between 25 to 26 ppg.
Entire career with the Bulls his overall average was like 18 ppg. Entire time with the Blazers from 1999-2003 averaged like 11 ppg.

That year Jordan retired, from the Bulls, Pippen averaged 22 ppg.

We all know defenses are weaker now than back then.

So, with all that added together, I'd say Pippen could average 25-26 PPG in today's game if he were the number one option.

Phoenix

11-27-2023, 03:48 PM

It's like this post was created specifically so we can get a wave of 3ball anti-Pippen bullshit.

Anyways, it's very easy to drop 20ppg today. There are 37 players currently averaging 20.0 or more( 41 if you want to round up guys averaging 19.6 and over). You got guys dropping 20 now who won't sniff the all-star game, an all-NBA team and the average casual has no fukking clue about.

Phoenix

11-27-2023, 03:49 PM

dankok8

11-27-2023, 05:34 PM

Lol what? Gonna need some receipts for that one.

Yea CavsFTW posted some draft data years ago. Pippen was listed with a 48 inch vertical.

3ba11

11-27-2023, 06:23 PM

Pippen is 6'7'', long arms, elite first step, 48 inch vert... In today's offense-first era, he would be very tough to stop from getting to the cup. And when in transition, he was super deadly back then too. Pip could also pass pretty well but that's outside the scope of this thread.

The bolded things that you mentioned above such as long arms, first step, 40-inch vert ('m assuming you meant 40 and not 48) simply describe a great athlete and are things that many players had back then and now

Stacey Augmon had all those things, or Robert Horry or Kenny Walker - you simply described a great athlete, which is what Pippen was - but these guys would be 3-and-D guys today or guys like Vanderbilt.. They lack the shooting and iso ability just like Pippen..

Again, show me a 25 ppg scorer in today's game that doesn't have great shooting and/or "bag" (iso game).. Pippen can't do either so he would either need to land alongside the GOAT again or be relegated to tertiary status just like he was back in the day when he was outside the system and the support structure that he grew up in.

Phoenix

11-27-2023, 07:56 PM

Yea CavsFTW posted some draft data years ago. Pippen was listed with a 48 inch vertical.

If he had that high a vertical it wasn't evident from what I've seen and I watched alot of Pip. With his height and arms, if he was getting that high up he'd be WELL over the rim. Dennis Smith has a 48"( the video says 50" but I think it's closer to 48") and looks like that (sorry I couldn't embed it, not sure if it's because it's a 'short'):

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/48Ydr8MEsV0
Scottie had nice hops but he weren't jumping like that.

ShawkFactory

11-27-2023, 09:26 PM

Pippen would be Ben Simmons in today's NBA. Completely useless without the ball in his hands and fundamentally a tweener that couldn't effectively play the PG, SF, nor PF position due to the challenge of trying to fit enough shooting around him without compromising the team's defense.

I'd give him 16/8/8 running everything through him like Simmons in Philly unless you hand built a running team around him. If that was the case he could be a 20/10/8 player.

I swear some of y'all didn't watch Pippen or simply don't remember. 3ball preys on those types who don't pay attention.

Pippen made more 3's in this game:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YPsUWyk7LEs

..than Simmons has in his entire career.

RRR3

11-27-2023, 09:28 PM

Kyle Kuzma is averaging 23 PPG and some of you think Pippen couldn't average 25 :yaohappy:

ILLsmak

11-27-2023, 09:35 PM

Pippen is 6'7'', long arms, elite first step, 48 inch vert... In today's offense-first era, he would be very tough to stop from getting to the cup. And when in transition, he was super deadly back then too. Pip could also pass pretty well but that's outside the scope of this thread.

ok here we go again. I'm going to post the vid of the guy in the nba draft combine with a 48 inch vert.

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/pmkBnfs1uJA

Please everyone watch this closely and stop saying people have that. Even Vince fkn Carter didn't have a 48 inch vert.

You can tell by the way the guy reacts who is checking the measurement, in real time, that it is absolutely ridiculous.

Pippen... did not have a 48 inch vert, Jordan... did not have a 48 inch vert, Wilt... did not have a 48 inch vert. And yeah, 44 or 42 is a great vert, too, but IT AIN'T THE SAME. And no Lebron didn't, either.

This is what we would see happening to Pip if he had a vert like that. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7PoTyJkCiYk

-Smak

Xiao Yao You

11-27-2023, 10:04 PM

https://deseret.brightspotcdn.com/dims4/default/aee8b16/2147483647/strip/true/crop/900x1200+0+0/resize/566x755!/quality/90/?url=https:%2F%2Fcdn.vox-cdn.com%2Fthumbor%2Fy_QknziTFInNCteNmrv8KpWv7OY%3D %2F0x0:900x1200%2F900x1200%2Ffilters:focal(450x600 :451x601)%2Fcdn.vox-cdn.com%2Fuploads%2Fchorus_asset%2Ffile%2F18096571 %2F700545920.jpg

48 "

StrongLurk

11-27-2023, 10:16 PM

Pippen won six finals and never lost in the finals. He's the GOAT.

SouBeachTalents

11-27-2023, 10:18 PM

Full Court

11-27-2023, 10:26 PM

In this era? He'd average 40 ppg. He'd bully his way to the hoop every time he wanted to. He'd basically be Lebron + defense.

ILLsmak

11-27-2023, 10:46 PM

dankok8

11-27-2023, 11:11 PM

If he had that high a vertical it wasn't evident from what I've seen and I watched alot of Pip. With his height and arms, if he was getting that high up he'd be WELL over the rim. Dennis Smith has a 48"( the video says 50" but I think it's closer to 48") and looks like that (sorry I couldn't embed it, not sure if it's because it's a 'short'):

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/48Ydr8MEsV0
Scottie had nice hops but he weren't jumping like that.

Players rarely jump 48 inches in an actual game situation. That was measured at the Draft Combine. CavsFTW had extensive sources and everything. I wish all those threads are not gone. I saved a bunch of his data. I'll try to find it.

Carbine

11-27-2023, 11:25 PM

It wouldn't matter much if he averaged 22 or 28, he would be considered a top tier player in the league today.

Phoenix

11-28-2023, 07:20 AM

Players rarely jump 48 inches in an actual game situation. That was measured at the Draft Combine. CavsFTW had extensive sources and everything. I wish all those threads are not gone. I saved a bunch of his data. I'll try to find it.

I know but usually there is some showing of vertical in-game ( not combine numbers but some in-game scenario, say on a break or an alley-hop). MJ, Lebron, Vince, etc have all done things in a game, in a dunk contest that made you go 'yep, that dude has 40"+ of air.

I've never seen a single dunk, or play really, from Scottie leading me to believe his vertical was remotely that high or even low 40's. You look at his dunks and the thing that sticks out is how long his arms are moreso than how high off the ground he is.

ImKobe

11-28-2023, 11:10 AM

Kyle Kuzma is averaging 23 PPG and some of you think Pippen couldn't average 25 :yaohappy:

Kuzma is a much better scorer & is FLOURISHING without Bran holding him back.

ShawkFactory

11-28-2023, 11:31 AM

Kuzma is a much better scorer & is FLOURISHING without Bran holding him back.

Than who?

dankok8

11-28-2023, 12:12 PM

I know but usually there is some showing of vertical in-game ( not combine numbers but some in-game scenario, say on a break or an alley-hop). MJ, Lebron, Vince, etc have all done things in a game, in a dunk contest that made you go 'yep, that dude has 40"+ of air.

I've never seen a single dunk, or play really, from Scottie leading me to believe his vertical was remotely that high or even low 40's. You look at his dunks and the thing that sticks out is how long his arms are moreso than how high off the ground he is.

Is this an impressive dunk?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yB0qWqBsMBc&list=FL5s1mL05aS6ZZa9IYBDPNXA&index=1

dankok8

11-28-2023, 03:24 PM

And another nice video showing Scottie's athleticism:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T8_GiznzWbk

3ba11

11-28-2023, 03:52 PM

And another nice video showing Scottie's athleticism:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T8_GiznzWbk

^^^ Jonathan Kuminga is an even better athlete and there are tons of guys that are equal or better athletes - it means nothing without shooting ability or a "bag" iso game - Pippen had neither, so he would be a transition player in today's game just like he was in the 90's.. People forget that outside the system and outside of growing up alongside Mike, Pippen averaged 14 ppg in Houston and that's what he would do in today's game unless he landed alongside the GOAT again like he did in 1988

carry on with this athleticism crap as if it means anything at all.. the best player in the league aren't good athletes like Jokic, Curry or Luka to name a few.. SGA isn't a great athlete either and neither was Harden

Phoenix

11-28-2023, 05:07 PM

Is this an impressive dunk?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yB0qWqBsMBc&list=FL5s1mL05aS6ZZa9IYBDPNXA&index=1

In the context of what we're talking about? That's not remotely close to demonstrating his vertical.

RRR3

11-28-2023, 05:15 PM

Than who?
:yaohappy:

Phoenix

11-28-2023, 05:16 PM

And another nice video showing Scottie's athleticism:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T8_GiznzWbk

His athleticism isn't in question. What we're discussing is his vertical, and while yes I agree most of the time a player isn't going to showcase their max vertical in-game, there are different scenarios where one can demonstrate a 40"+ inch vertical in game

Lebron, case in point, reportedly has a 44" and is about the same height as Scottie. Here's a well-known highlight showing his running vertical:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-kolNcY53s&ab_channel=NBA

If Scottie had a 48" vertical, at some point over 16 years you would have seen something similar to this. Because that's what a 6'8 guy with a 44" vertical looks like, and you're saying Scottie adds 4" to that.

3ba11

11-28-2023, 05:21 PM

dank08 only said 48 inches because he didn't want Pippen to be less than Jordan (it's widely reported that Jordan's vertical is 48).. basically, dank08 has been watching too much Klutch Sports media and doesn't want Pippen to be perceived as "carried" (as the stats show he obviously was and more than any sidekick in history)

dankok8

11-28-2023, 05:47 PM

In the context of what we're talking about? That's not remotely close to demonstrating his vertical.

It kind of is. Guys without insane verticals don't dunk from the free throw line.

There is no way Pip's vertical is under 40 inches. Like no way in hell.

Phoenix

11-28-2023, 07:48 PM

It kind of is. Guys without insane verticals don't dunk from the free throw line.

There is no way Pip's vertical is under 40 inches. Like no way in hell.

No, it really isn't. You're trying to maximize the distance on a free throw dunk, not the amount of air under your shoes to the ground. You don't need remotely close to a 48" for a free throw dunk if you're 6'8, long-armed and can jump far enough. Hell Brent Barry at 6'6 did a free throw line, what's his vertical?

I wasn't saying it was under 40. I just need more than 'some poster documented this somewhere on the website' when there's no footage I'm aware of showcasing the kind of vertical we associate with someone in the ballpark of a 48". Vince Carter, Clyde Drexler, Lebron and others of that ilk got higher off the ground ,demonstrably, then we've seen from Pip and none of them are close to 48". Actually look at that foul line dunk again, look at the distance from the floor to the soles of Pippen's feet. He's probably mid-high 30's on that dunk at most. That's not saying his vertical isn't at least 40, but that dunk you chose to make a point about his vertical isn't showcasing it.

dankok8

11-28-2023, 07:52 PM

No, it really isn't. You're trying to maximize the distance on a free throw dunk, not the amount of air under your shoes to the ground. You don't need remotely close to a 48" for a free throw dunk.

I wasn't saying it was under 40. I just need more than 'some poster documented this somewhere on the website' when there's no footage I'm aware of showcasing the kind of vertical we associate with someone with mid to high 40's vertical.

This guy was a very respected poster (CavsFTW) and had draft measurements for a lot of players including his sources. Like I said, his old ISH threads are all wiped out and I can't seem to find it in my files. He's the guy that manages Wilt Chamberlain Archive (WCA) on YouTube which is barely active these days.

3ba11

11-28-2023, 07:55 PM

It kind of is. Guys without insane verticals don't dunk from the free throw line.

There is no way Pip's vertical is under 40 inches. Like no way in hell.

Pippen's vertical was about 37 inches or so, give or take

It's widely known in scouting circles that this is the approximate vertical for a guy like Pippen, while someone like Kuminga might be at like 39 or 40 - this is pretty much the max for guys that are 6'7" with few exception

Phoenix

11-28-2023, 08:10 PM

James White is listed at 6'7 and reportedly has the kind of mythical 48" or higher vertical we're talking about here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J9vO8o-zL_Q&ab_channel=Hoopmixtape

That's basically what we're saying Scottie is here. That's what someone 6'7, 6'8 with a 48" vertical looks like when they going for it.

Phoenix

11-28-2023, 08:14 PM

This guy was a very respected poster (CavsFTW) and had draft measurements for a lot of players including his sources. Like I said, his old ISH threads are all wiped out and I can't seem to find it in my files. He's the guy that manages Wilt Chamberlain Archive (WCA) on YouTube which is barely active these days.

I'm aware of CavsFTW and I'm not saying he doesn't have documented measurements. I'm just saying that basically watching Scottie's career I've never seen in any circumstance anything approaching a 48" vertical. I can't argue with what measurements were recorded behind the scenes, I'm just comparing what I've seen of Scottie vs guys who are known 'leapers'.

Bawkish

11-29-2023, 02:09 AM

I'm aware of CavsFTW and I'm not saying he doesn't have documented measurements. I'm just saying that basically watching Scottie's career I've never seen in any circumstance anything approaching a 48" vertical. I can't argue with what measurements were recorded behind the scenes, I'm just comparing what I've seen of Scottie vs guys who are known 'leapers'.

trustmebro :D

ImKobe

11-29-2023, 05:11 AM

Than who?

Pippin

Axe

11-29-2023, 05:19 AM

Pippin
:oldlol:

ShawkFactory

11-29-2023, 09:59 AM

Pippin

Really came back yesterday to get your troll on didn't you?

Manny98

11-29-2023, 01:35 PM

Like 24/7/7

RRR3

11-29-2023, 01:43 PM

duh-uhhhh-uhhh
:roll:

3ba11

11-29-2023, 04:32 PM

.
Jokic needed a sidekick with the best shooting splits ever, while MJ won titles with the worst shooting splits ever from a sidekick - worst bricklayer ever:

https://i.ibb.co/qBBHvB1/chrome-d-EXe-R4x-E8t.jpg

Since every good scorer in today's game has good shooting or good iso, Pippen would be just a transition player in today's game with 15/7/5 averages, which equals his career averages these numbers are just like his stats in previous eras when he was outside the system or outside of growing up alongside the GOAT