ROLL CALL: Who here is actually intrigued by the In Season Tournament?

[Proctor]

Jesus, this is AWFUL. :oldlol:

Eye bleed red court, SIX SCOREBOARDS plastered across the top of the screen...my guy Harlan calling this game like it's Game 7....what the ****? :roll: :roll: :roll:


Some bench player on the Bucks hit an open 3 with 9 minutes left in the 4th and you'd think someone hit the game winner by the way the crew is calling the game. The ballwashing of this tournament and watching guys like Redick claim how it's so fun and interesting is big time cringe.

Please name yourself if you actually have ANY interest in this tournament and its ramifications. :biggums:

[theman93]

It’s lame af. The #2 seed in the East who went 3-1 during the qualifiers won’t even have a chance to compete LOL

[SouBeachTalents]

I thought it was an abysmal idea from the get go. You can’t have a tournament a month into the season that is unanimously considered inferior to the one at the end of the year and expect fans to care about it. I honestly can’t think of a more meaningless idea a sport or league has implemented than this one.

[Proctor]

Reggie out here howling everytime someone makes a shot or a layup and Harlan calling the action like it's Game 7. Even threw Shaq out there for....what?

Then to make matters even worse, which doesn't seem possible, you have commentators and pundits playing up the meaning of point differential and trying to make 40 point blowouts sound like an epic and great thing BeCaUsE PoInt DiFFeReNtIaL MaTTerZz.

:roll:

This is honestly more embarrassing than the All Star Game, because at least that's widely known as just one big anti-competitive fvckaround.

[Carbine]

It's a pathetic attempt to create buzz.

[Baller234]

I can imagine a scenario where some middle of the road team wins the tournament only to get boosted in the first round of the playoffs.

And then on TNT, they will be featured in the Gone Fishin segment holding the cup.

[SouBeachTalents]

I can imagine a scenario where some middle of the road team wins the tournament only to get boosted in the first round of the playoffs.

And then on TNT, they will be featured in the Gone Fishin segment holding the cup.
I always felt the team that “wins” this tournament will only get mocked for it after getting bounced from the playoffs.

[ShawkFactory]

The players by and large seem to care. So if December pro basketball is all of a sudden better for that, then I’m in.

[coin24]

How long has it been going for? Seems like weeks:oldlol:

Some of the courts look cool, the rest are brutal. Don’t really get the point of it or the format, seems like a not well thought through idea..

[Xiao Yao You]

How long has it been going for? Seems like weeks:oldlol:

Some of the courts look cool, the rest are brutal. Don’t really get the point of it or the format, seems like a not well thought through idea..

more money is the point of it

[coin24]

more money is the point of it

How does it generate much more than a regular season game ??

[Xiao Yao You]

How does it generate much more than a regular season game ??

be an extra game for starters

[FultzNationRISE]

The thing is, I dont see what it does for ratings.

Casual fans who might tune into an NBA playoff game or the Finals, or maybe a regular season game while channel surfing to watch Lebron or Steph because theyre mainstream famous… I dont think they realize this tournament is happening, nor care.

Whereas the more passionate NBA fans are probably watching based on if its a match up they like, as they always would. I dont think ANYONE is tuning in to watch Pistons-Hawks because it determines who goes to the inseason tournament quarterfinals.

[Real Men Wear Green]

It's alright but I would like to see them come up with a way to break ties other than point differential. They've incentivized running the score up in a few games when it doesn't mean anything. Tonight the Celtics were playing their starters late into the fourth trying to best the Bulls by 40 just in case of some tie breaker scenario. They need to be able to break ties with a small number of games so I get why they took this approach but when you have Mazzulla walking over to Donovan to explain and apologize for what is going on is anything being proven in terms of who is better between the Celtics and Nets? Try prioritizing overall win/loss record instead so that we don't see stiff like that.

Also every alternate court was an eyesore.

[theman93]

Team A beat Team B in the qualifiers.

Team A and Team B both finished 3-1 in the qualifiers.

But Team B will advance to the tournament instead of Team A because their point differential was 5 points greater.

Team A is Orlando and Team B is Boston. That makes literally no sense.

[Naero]

Whether we care or not, odds are it's good for the league's revenue. We also scoffed at the NBA Awards ceremony during its inception, yet I'm sure they made a net profit off of that when it was all said and done.

I don't think the IST is just for hyping up early-season games; it's likely also meant to garner more sports fans worldwide by adopting one of soccer's business models. The hope is that more soccer fans—probably the largest audience in all of sports—will buy into the NBA because of their familiarity with the IST format.

Whether or not it pans out like that is anyone's guess, but what does the NBA have to lose? Sure, us long-time fans couldn't care less about the IST, but are we any less inclined to watch these games because of it? And even if we are, that doesn't matter in the grand scheme as long as the league is internationalizing its fanbase further.

Not saying the NBA necessarily struck gold here, but the potential rewards seem to outweigh the risks heavily enough.

[dankok8]

Teams seem to be playing extra hard which is always good. There's actual defense being played.

[dbugz]

Don't give an F about it.

I'm just looking at the team "real" standings and that's all that matters.

I hope they'll remove this non sense tournament next season.

[SATAN]

Teams seem to be playing extra hard which is always good.

This.

People will complain about anything.

[Dunaprenti]

I don't think the IST is just for hyping up early-season games; it's likely also meant to garner more sports fans worldwide by adopting one of soccer's business models. The hope is that more soccer fans—probably the largest audience in all of sports—will buy into the NBA because of their familiarity with the IST format.


That is the part that I don't understand. Soccer cup tournaments include teams from lower divisions. This creates a certain "David vs Goliath" atmosphere where smaller teams compete against the big boys. Cup tournaments will not be as popular as they are if they included only the top division teams. There are exceptions but that is usually how tournaments go in Europe.

I applaud the idea of making regular season games more competitive but this format does nothing for me. Looks like more of a betting thing than a basketball one.
Regarding the international audience, I believe something like the FIFA Club World Cup format will have a greater effect.

[Wally450]

I don't really mind it, since its basketball, but my god, the awful courts need to go. There also needs to be some tweaking of how teams make the next round.

[Baller234]

I see people trying to make the argument that the games are more competitive. I mean okay fine that's great but I don't think that was ever the issue. The issue wasn't whether or not regular season games were competitive enough, the issue was whether or not the games themselves had high enough stakes.

An extra $500k might raise the stakes for the players, but I don't see how it raises the stakes for the fans. Who really cares about winning this cup? Once it's over and the season resumes as normal, nobody is going to care. It's like you didn't win even anything.

Also, whichever team wins this thing, are they even allowed to celebrate? What's that post game ceremony gonna look like? Don't you kind of get the idea that these players and these coaches would be embarrassed if they're caught celebrating too proudly over this thing?

That post game ceremony will determine whether or not this whole thing was worth it. I predict it will end in a wet fart, but hey anything is possible.

[Phoenix]

They need to find a way to tie the winner into something more meaningful than an extra 500k for players already rolling in millions of dollars. That's a nice weekend in Vegas( or a night in a Houston strip joint for Harden), but I'm not sure why the average fan should care more than they already do.

[ArbitraryWater]

Teams seem to be playing extra hard which is always good. There's actual defense being played.

Theyre playing the same as always.

[ArbitraryWater]

This.

People will complain about anything.


Well, why change a good thing with something arbitrary?

[FultzNationRISE]

It’s not going away because theres nothing to lose by holding it. It doesnt hurt the product in anyway, so even if fan enthusiasm proves minimal theres still no reason not to keep trying it and seeing if it grows over time.

As a fan, you either like it or you dont really care. I dont see what reason anyone would have to specifically not like it (assuming they tweak the score differential stuff etc) compared to a regular season game. I personally dont give much of a shit about the event, but it also doesnt bother me. Why would it?

[Phoenix]

It’s not going away because theres nothing to lose by holding it. It doesnt hurt the product in anyway, so even if fan enthusiasm proves minimal theres still no reason not to keep trying it and seeing if it grows over time.

As a fan, you either like it or you dont really care. I dont see what reason anyone would have to specifically not like it (assuming they tweak the score differential stuff etc) compared to a regular season game. I personally dont give much of a shit about the event, but it also doesnt bother me. Why would it?

The barometer is if it tangibly increases fan engagement/ratings. If it doesn't then you're basically just giving the players extra money. My reaction so far is kind of whatever, if it's a game between teams I wanted to watch anyways then I will, but if it's between two teams I don't particularly care to donate 2 hours to, throwing on some special unis and adorning the court with ( in some cases) ugly tournament graffiti isn't going to make me tune in. I would imagine alot of people are in that boat.

[tpols]

I understand why they did it to promote competitiveness in the regular season but ultimately it's meaningless. The playoffs and real Champs decide who came out on top in the season.

[tpols]

I don't really mind it, since its basketball, but my god, the awful courts need to go. There also needs to be some tweaking of how teams make the next round.

The super bright court colors make it harder to follow the action. It's distracting.

[tpols]

They need to find a way to tie the winner into something more meaningful than an extra 500k for players already rolling in millions of dollars. That's a nice weekend in Vegas( or a night in a Houston strip joint for Harden), but I'm not sure why the average fan should care more than they already do.

If they really want to make it legit they should do what baseball used to do and have the conference winner claim HCA in the last round.

[Phoenix]

If they really want to make it legit they should do what baseball used to do and have the conference winner claim HCA in the last round.

That's what I was saying earlier. Not specifically your idea but they need to tie it somehow into the outcome of the season.

[Phoenix]

The super bright court colors make it harder to follow the action. It's distracting.

Yes, I've had that reaction as well ( I don't recall the teams playing) but the court detracted from the experience enough that I tuned out.

[FultzNationRISE]

The barometer is if it tangibly increases fan engagement/ratings. If it doesn't then you're basically just giving the players extra money. My reaction so far is kind of whatever, if it's a game between teams I wanted to watch anyways then I will, but if it's between two teams I don't particularly care to donate 2 hours to, throwing on some special unis and adorning the court with ( in some cases) ugly tournament graffiti isn't going to make me tune in. I would imagine alot of people are in that boat.

The championship game is technically an extra game on the season schedule, so the revenue it produces from TV and attendance will cover the prize pool in all likelyhood. It’s not money the league is just putting up at a loss I would think.

[FKAri]

Intrigued is a pretty low bar. I'm sure most are intrigued but replying no due to the connotation.

I do think it's stupid and forced. Just because it works for soccer doesn't mean you can shoehorn it here and make it make sense. I agree that they do need a way to make non-playoff basketball more interesting. This is one way to do it. I know they want to keep the number of games (revenue) but maybe they could overhaul the regular season into teams playing a bunch of series. And have series wins decide regular season standings. There's lots of ideas other than a mid season tournament.

[Smook A.]

It'd be better if the court designs weren't so ugly. Instead of having the court be one bright color, they should just stick to the regular hardwood color and keep the in-season tournament trophy in the middle.

Also the formatting is still confusing to me

[MMM]

Team A beat Team B in the qualifiers.

Team A and Team B both finished 3-1 in the qualifiers.

But Team B will advance to the tournament instead of Team A because their point differential was 5 points greater.

Team A is Orlando and Team B is Boston. That makes literally no sense.

Team A lost to Team C
And Team C lost to team B

Bos
Orl
And BK were all 3-1

Maybe point diffental isnt the best tie breaker and in the future they should change it but as of now i dont see this injustice done to Orl. Orl should be mad at themselves for losing to BK by 20 or not beating Chi by more. In their other 2 games they did their job

[Real Men Wear Green]

The next round has a few teams that people will be interested in and single elimination raises interest. Lakers/suns in the next round will have a lot of buzz even though I personally don't think the Lakers are a Champ Contender and the NBA will do well if the final is Bucks or Celtics vs, Suns or Lakers. Next year please get rid of the alternate courts and point differential tie-breaker but this tournament is a good idea.

[ILLsmak]

I thought it was an abysmal idea from the get go. You can’t have a tournament a month into the season that is unanimously considered inferior to the one at the end of the year and expect fans to care about it. I honestly can’t think of a more meaningless idea a sport or league has implemented than this one.

College does it, but college is different.

-Smak

[SATAN]

Theyre playing the same as always.

Are you confusing which games are tournament games?

[Kblaze8855]

People didn’t think it would, but it does in cases solve the problem of players not trying early in the season or in the regular season in general. Teams actually want to win. They’re out there running up the score when they already have the game in control. Turns out half a million a player is motivation enough to care about regular season games. Players seem to see it almost like a half million dollar bet. The players are trying to win. Fans not caring doesn’t change that to me. You caring or not caring does nothing to change the product for me. I’ve already noticed players seem to take rest for non-tournament games. Who wants to sit when you can play for half a million?

if the final four games are tight late, those players are going to be going all out like a playoff game. That’s all anyone can really ask out of a game in December.

[sunsfan1357]

Kblaze still at it, ya love to see it

*Edit* damn a decent amount of old timers still around

[FultzNationRISE]

People didn’t think it would, but it does in cases solve the problem of players not trying early in the season or in the regular season in general. Teams actually want to win. They’re out there running up the score when they already have the game in control. Turns out half a million a player is motivation enough to care about regular season games. Players seem to see it almost like a half million dollar bet. The players are trying to win. Fans not caring doesn’t change that to me. You caring or not caring does nothing to change the product for me. I’ve already noticed players seem to take rest for non-tournament games. Who wants to sit when you can play for half a million?

if the final four games are tight late, those players are going to be going all out like a playoff game. That’s all anyone can really ask out of a game in December.


The main purpose of getting players to go harder this time of year still ultimately comes down to ratings. In the long run that’s really how the tournament’s success will be measured.

Doesnt mean they expect the ratings impact to be felt immediately. But they want this to eventually be prestigious enough people will tune in for it like they would for the playoffs.

While I doubt the group stage games really moved the needle on broader fan interest in any tangible way, I could see the elimination rounds drawing a decent level of engagement. Again we have to wait until it’s over and we know if Lebron won or not before we can fully judge the first incarnation of the tournament.

[nineiron]

Intrigued is a pretty low bar. I'm sure most are intrigued but replying no due to the connotation.

I do think it's stupid and forced. Just because it works for soccer doesn't mean you can shoehorn it here and make it make sense. I agree that they do need a way to make non-playoff basketball more interesting. This is one way to do it. I know they want to keep the number of games (revenue) but maybe they could overhaul the regular season into teams playing a bunch of series. And have series wins decide regular season standings. There's lots of ideas other than a mid season tournament.

are you talking about Champions League or FA Cup? in either case, both of those tournaments are totally different than this dumb NBA in season tournament.

i'm actually surprised to see all these bransexuals, like you, shitting on the in season tournament when it's the only chance for LeFraud to sniff another trophy.

[sdot_thadon]

So far it's been decent, maybe I've been lucky but every game I've watched, or dropped into have been competitive aside from maybe 2. The players ARE competing harder in November games than we've seen in a while, maybe ever and thats what most of us have had issue with. The courts don't really bother me much, it does give the games an air of being different, I may be in thr minority but I like the change in scenery too, the league we have now literally has rotations of jerseys for each team already so what's one more? As for the meaning , we don't know it's just the 1st go round and it's being done without bothering any other aspect of the season so it's not really a big change until the final game which should be epic. 1 game Winner gets 500k a man and a new shiny trophy to hold up. Where's the down side?

[nineiron]

So far it's been decent, maybe I've been lucky but every game I've watched, or dropped into have been competitive aside from maybe 2. The players ARE competing harder in November games than we've seen in a while, maybe ever and thats what most of us have had issue with. The courts don't really bother me much, it does give the games an air of being different, I may be in thr minority but I like the change in scenery too, the league we have now literally has rotations of jerseys for each team already so what's one more? As for the meaning , we don't know it's just the 1st go round and it's being done without bothering any other aspect of the season so it's not really a big change until the final game which should be epic. 1 game Winner gets 500k a man and a new shiny trophy to hold up. Where's the down side?

you are

[sdot_thadon]

you are

Nobody forcing you to watch courts that make you cry my man, change the channel.....I can't imagine crying about new content in a sport I probably already consume too much of.

[theman93]

Team A lost to Team C
And Team C lost to team B

Bos
Orl
And BK were all 3-1

Maybe point diffental isnt the best tie breaker and in the future they should change it but as of now i dont see this injustice done to Orl. Orl should be mad at themselves for losing to BK by 20 or not beating Chi by more. In their other 2 games they did their job

It is absolutely an injustice because the tie breaker makes no sense and the schedule favored Boston. Boston had the luxury of knowing how many points they needed to win by to advance because Orlando had already finished their qualifying games the previous night. In one of their qualifiers, Orlando was up by 27 against Toronto before they pulled their starters and went on to win by “only” 19. Being punished for not boat racing your opponent by what could have been double that is 100% an injustice.

We were wronged and now the league will pay.

[Baller234]

When the tournament is over and the season resumes as if it never happened, everyone will see how much of a waste of time this was. It will be great for the players that won the extra $500k, but nobody else is going to give a shit.

What does winning this cup even say about a team? Like okay congrats you won the cup, and? What does that mean? Winning a championship after a grueling post season signals to the world that you were able to compete with the absolute best of the best, endure multiple rounds of escalating pressure and intensity... and ultimately be the last ones standing.

What does winning this tournament prove? That you were able to win a random string of one off games sprinkled throughout the first quarter of the regular season? I mean... cool I guess? Is that really something worth celebrating and commemorating? Like I said earlier, I can almost envision a scenario where the players and coaches will be ashamed if they get caught celebrating too hard. Because ultimately this thing isn't going to matter.

[Hey Yo]

The players by and large seem to care. So if December pro basketball is all of a sudden better for that, then I’m in.

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/39009069/nba-season-tournament-2023-notable-stats

Stats also show that they seem to care.

[Kblaze8855]

The main purpose of getting players to go harder this time of year still ultimately comes down to ratings. In the long run that’s really how the tournament’s success will be measured.




fans like to brag about the high ratings of something they watched and to talk shit about the low ratings of things they don’t care about because of the sheep mentality. They want to be in the herd. The NBA doesn’t get paid by ratings. The nba gets paid by right fees. The NBA gets paid when some corporate entity pays them for the right to air these games.

Last I read YouTube was bidding to get exclusive rights on the tourney finals in the future. And the corporations don’t even use traditional ratings. They just want you to pay for their streaming service. It makes zero difference to their bottom line if you actually watch anything. hell everyone tuning in at the same time crashes some of these things. All they care about is having a compelling enough list of things to air that you keep paying the subscription fee. All the NBA cares about is that a company pays them to be part of the package that keeps them getting subscription fees.

you’re stuck with an old-school idea of where the money comes from. ESPN was by a huge margin the most profitable segment of all Disney business. That’s because no service can be taken serious without access to live sports. The rights fees reflect that. As long as people aren’t happy to watch days old sporting events that’s going to continue.

you need live sports and everyone is fighting to take over the hundreds of billions that come from subscription fees long-term. The Dome company agrees to pay the NBA $1 billion for this tournament for 10 years is the day they completely stop caring about the ratings for it. It’s entirely possible is going to air somewhere that doesn’t even have traditional ratings.

and companies were bidding on it before the games were even played. It’s a content business, not a quality engaging content business. It doesn’t have to be good or even popular. It just has to exist as a separate entity another corporation will pay you the rights for.

What’s the overhead? Whatever it cost to paint the extra tournament floors and whatever they pay their graphics people?

They’re taking games they would have to play Anyway, and marketing them as an entirely separate entity to be purchased standalone. It’s actually pretty brilliant.

[FultzNationRISE]

fans like to brag about the high ratings of something they watched and to talk shit about the low ratings of things they don’t care about because of the sheep mentality. They want to be in the herd. The NBA doesn’t get paid by ratings. The nba gets paid by right fees. The NBA gets paid when some corporate entity pays them for the right to air these games.

Last I read YouTube was bidding to get exclusive rights on the tourney finals in the future. And the corporations don’t even use traditional ratings. They just want you to pay for their streaming service. It makes zero difference to their bottom line if you actually watch anything. hell everyone tuning in at the same time crashes some of these things. All they care about is having a compelling enough list of things to air that you keep paying the subscription fee. All the NBA cares about is that a company pays them to be part of the package that keeps them getting subscription fees.

you’re stuck with an old-school idea of where the money comes from. ESPN was by a huge margin the most profitable segment of all Disney business. That’s because no service can be taken serious without access to live sports. The rights fees reflect that. As long as people aren’t happy to watch days old sporting events that’s going to continue.

you need live sports and everyone is fighting to take over the hundreds of billions that come from subscription fees long-term. The Dome company agrees to pay the NBA $1 billion for this tournament for 10 years is the day they completely stop caring about the ratings for it. It’s entirely possible is going to air somewhere that doesn’t even have traditional ratings.

and companies were bidding on it before the games were even played. It’s a content business, not a quality engaging content business. It doesn’t have to be good or even popular. It just has to exist as a separate entity another corporation will pay you the rights for.

What’s the overhead? Whatever it cost to paint the extra tournament floors and whatever they pay their graphics people?

They’re taking games they would have to play Anyway, and marketing them as an entirely separate entity to be purchased standalone. It’s actually pretty brilliant.

Youre being pedantic.

When I say ratings I mean it as a catch-all for general fan interest, not as a specific mode of measurement.

And yes that does determine the long term value of these things. There's a reason the Pro Bowling Tour doesnt get these kinds of tv deals, and it isnt because company executives made some empirical decision that basketball is a better sport.

Companies are bidding on the rights to sports based on expected demand for viewership. The expectation fans will subscribe to their service or sit through their commercials or whatever because they want to see that sport. The deals they're bidding on today are based on expectations over the next five years. But if nobody watches over the next five years, what do you think happens to the value of the NBA product at the next negotiation??

You literally just argued that "The NBA doesnt care if anyone watches."


:biggums:

[Dbrog]

The next round has a few teams that people will be interested in and single elimination raises interest. Lakers/suns in the next round will have a lot of buzz even though I personally don't think the Lakers are a Champ Contender and the NBA will do well if the final is Bucks or Celtics vs, Suns or Lakers. Next year please get rid of the alternate courts and point differential tie-breaker but this tournament is a good idea.

Yup this is it for me. I've always been curious to see how the NBA would be if they had single elimination like college or leagues like the NFL. It should in theory produce quite a bit more parity and makes both teams play the most intense they can because there's no tomorrow. Now, I do think they should add some sort of large advantage for the playoffs to up the ante even more with something like home court in the Finals. That would likely interest players and also likely never come into play as it is difficult to make the Finals, therefor doesn't really give unfair advantages to good teams

[Real Men Wear Green]

An automatic playoffs bid may work well. Home court may not simply because winning the tourney has nothing to do with making the Finals. You would certainly see who believes their team can it all though.

[nineiron]

Yup this is it for me. I've always been curious to see how the NBA would be if they had single elimination like college or leagues like the NFL. It should in theory produce quite a bit more parity and makes both teams play the most intense they can because there's no tomorrow. Now, I do think they should add some sort of large advantage for the playoffs to up the ante even more with something like home court in the Finals. That would likely interest players and also likely never come into play as it is difficult to make the Finals, therefor doesn't really give unfair advantages to good teams

just imagine how bad LeCoward would choke in a single elimination game.

[Patrick Chewing]

Who here is like me and still doesn't know or understand the first thing about how this tournament works??

[Xiao Yao You]

I'm wondering about how they work the schedule now. It was already uneven and now they're leaving a week open and filling it later. How are they deciding who plays who and what games are left off the schedule in the first place?

[Real Men Wear Green]

Who here is like me and still doesn't know or understand the first thing about how this tournament works??

To be fair trying to explain even the most basic concepts to you is like teaching calculus to a monkey.

[Real Men Wear Green]

I'm wondering about how they work the schedule now. It was already uneven and now they're leaving a week open and filling it later. How are they deciding who plays who and what games are left off the schedule in the first place?

All games will be played. The teams that do well in the tournament will just play a few more. Single elimination with 8 teams remaining so 4 of those teams have 1 more game, 2 have two more and 2 have three.

[Xiao Yao You]

All games will be played. The teams that do well in the tournament will just play a few more. Single elimination with 8 teams remaining so 4 of those teams have 1 more game, 2 have two more and 2 have three.

only the final two teams play extra games

[SATAN]

To be fair trying to explain even the most basic concepts to you is like teaching calculus to a monkey.

:oldlol:

[Real Men Wear Green]

only the final two teams play extra games

I would be the monkey.

[ILLsmak]

An automatic playoffs bid may work well.

that would be fun.

-Smak

[MMM]

When the tournament is over and the season resumes as if it never happened, everyone will see how much of a waste of time this was. It will be great for the players that won the extra $500k, but nobody else is going to give a shit.

What does winning this cup even say about a team? Like okay congrats you won the cup, and? What does that mean? Winning a championship after a grueling post season signals to the world that you were able to compete with the absolute best of the best, endure multiple rounds of escalating pressure and intensity... and ultimately be the last ones standing.

What does winning this tournament prove? That you were able to win a random string of one off games sprinkled throughout the first quarter of the regular season? I mean... cool I guess? Is that really something worth celebrating and commemorating? Like I said earlier, I can almost envision a scenario where the players and coaches will be ashamed if they get caught celebrating too hard. Because ultimately this thing isn't going to matter.

I think we will have to see what happens over the next few seasons. For example, a lot of people credit the Suns turnaround to their performance in the bubble. I could see this being a spring board for certain teams. Personally i like the pressure it will put on the winner because you dont want to win the cup and lose in the playoffs

[Patrick Chewing]

To be fair trying to explain even the most basic concepts to you is like teaching calculus to a monkey.

Yawn. You hold onto grudges like your life depends on it.

[bullettooth]

Most of the courts looks awesome. I hope they make some of them permanent or repeat them. Bulls, 76ers and Suns are especially nice.

[Xiao Yao You]

NBA Communications: NBA games averaged 18,208 fans in attendance throughout November 2023, the highest average attendance for November in history (http://twitter.com/NBAPR/status/1730673045394591917).
– via Twitter (http://twitter.com/NBAPR/status/1730673045394591917)

[Proctor]

fans like to brag about the high ratings of something they watched and to talk shit about the low ratings of things they don’t care about because of the sheep mentality. They want to be in the herd. The NBA doesn’t get paid by ratings. The nba gets paid by right fees. The NBA gets paid when some corporate entity pays them for the right to air these games.

Last I read YouTube was bidding to get exclusive rights on the tourney finals in the future. And the corporations don’t even use traditional ratings. They just want you to pay for their streaming service. It makes zero difference to their bottom line if you actually watch anything. hell everyone tuning in at the same time crashes some of these things. All they care about is having a compelling enough list of things to air that you keep paying the subscription fee. All the NBA cares about is that a company pays them to be part of the package that keeps them getting subscription fees.

you’re stuck with an old-school idea of where the money comes from. ESPN was by a huge margin the most profitable segment of all Disney business. That’s because no service can be taken serious without access to live sports. The rights fees reflect that. As long as people aren’t happy to watch days old sporting events that’s going to continue.

you need live sports and everyone is fighting to take over the hundreds of billions that come from subscription fees long-term. The Dome company agrees to pay the NBA $1 billion for this tournament for 10 years is the day they completely stop caring about the ratings for it. It’s entirely possible is going to air somewhere that doesn’t even have traditional ratings.

and companies were bidding on it before the games were even played. It’s a content business, not a quality engaging content business. It doesn’t have to be good or even popular. It just has to exist as a separate entity another corporation will pay you the rights for.

What’s the overhead? Whatever it cost to paint the extra tournament floors and whatever they pay their graphics people?

They’re taking games they would have to play Anyway, and marketing them as an entirely separate entity to be purchased standalone. It’s actually pretty brilliant.
A lot of what you're saying is true but that doesn't change the fact there is a major effort to manufacture hype and pull the wool over the eyes of true basketball fans by feeding us this absolute crap.

You know so badly that someone like Barkley would love a segment where they could roast this meaningless garbage. Instead we have every commentator and analyst trying extremely hard to convince us that they care and find it so fascinating. You have guys like Harlan and Brian Anderson calling the TNT games like it's Game 7 and trying to overcall things so they can land in a commercial or something. Much like Shaq's "are you not entertained!?!?" soundbite that just never dies. Reggie howling like he's watching a Dream Team scrimmage or something when it's just a random bench player with a reverse layup or an open 3. Too much corporate appeasement and artificial enthusiasm for me. The masquerade that it's so competitive when even blowout losses are played up like they are "changing the landscape" of the tournament because of point differential... as if that hides the fact it was an uncompetitive, pointless blowout and that's it. Pretty hard not to make it look competitive when you're ascribing such lofty meaning to total beatdown blowouts. It's repulsive. The courts don't look good. The stakes are trivial, and this will be looked at no different than a team winning the Summer League unless it is changed. Who gives a ****?

Will it be looked at as a success? Sure...but no different than, say, a YouTube clickbait video made by a kid that was incredibly dumb and still managed to get 15 million views and generate buckets of ad money. It's not hard to make something a "success" if that's the standard.

[MrFonzworth]

Who here is like me and still doesn't know or understand the first thing about how this tournament works??To be fair trying to explain even the most basic concepts to you is like teaching calculus to a monkey.

:yaohappy:

[sdot_thadon]

NBA Communications: NBA games averaged 18,208 fans in attendance throughout November 2023, the highest average attendance for November in history (http://twitter.com/NBAPR/status/1730673045394591917).
– via Twitter (http://twitter.com/NBAPR/status/1730673045394591917)

Apparently already the success they hoped for, we'll hear about every revenue benefit it brings I'm sure. I imagine after it becomes a tradition the meaning of it will be for the accolade lists, kinda like the euro guys IST cup champ, mvp etc. X times. Thinking ahead it will definitely give a different view on player/,team dynamics in the single elimination phase. 1 game matchups is a different world from 7 game series, should be fun.

[Kblaze8855]

Youre being pedantic.

When I say ratings I mean it as a catch-all for general fan interest, not as a specific mode of measurement.

And yes that does determine the long term value of these things. There's a reason the Pro Bowling Tour doesnt get these kinds of tv deals, and it isnt because company executives made some empirical decision that basketball is a better sport.

Companies are bidding on the rights to sports based on expected demand for viewership. The expectation fans will subscribe to their service or sit through their commercials or whatever because they want to see that sport. The deals they're bidding on today are based on expectations over the next five years. But if nobody watches over the next five years, what do you think happens to the value of the NBA product at the next negotiation??

You literally just argued that "The NBA doesnt care if anyone watches."


:biggums:

They don’t care if anyone watches more than the normal games that would be in a their place.

The negotiation after this one is going to be long past ratings being the determining factor. Companies are making more money with less ratings at this point because so many of them can get direct subscribers, which is how ESPN makes more money for Disney than their entire entertainment business. ESPN gets a few dollars for every single person in America who has cable because people won’t stand for not having that access even if they don’t watch the games individually. My cable box isn’t even connected to the TV. But if my cable service lost access to live sports, I would cancel it.

The nba has three times the revenue now with worse ratings than 10-15 years ago. The difference is far greater than inflation. The difference is figuring out that the right to air your games and show your highlights is more valuable than high ratings that go to advertising sales you don’t get a piece of.

And despite declining traditional ratings far more companies are getting in on the game because they can horn in on the cable subscription model, which allows you to make a little bit of money From hundreds of millions of people at the same time instead of relying on ads which are dependent on ratings.

The people making these decisions talk about retention rate, not ratings because how many people watch don’t matter how many people pay you every month for the option to watch matters. You just need to be able to say you have live sports to be a serious player. The NBA doesn’t need these games to get better ratings than the regular games that would already be played. They just need a separate entity they can sell to somebody else without losing their existing deals. They turned games that already existed to a separate entity they can sell again.

Google Won’t pay $1 billion because they expect ad revenue when YouTube TV has exclusive access to the finals of this tournament. Google will pay a billion So when you click the sign up for YouTube TV, the NBA is one of the logos in the channels section trying to entice you to give them $10 a month till the day you die.

they need the NBA logo to go next to the NFL one they get to display because they pay for Sunday ticket and red zone now. They’re going to need to be able to put the college football playoff logo as well. Which is why they expanded to 12 teams. They can sell the first round to another streaming service.

you’re talking like it’s 1983. The networks who were so concerned about ratings decades ago are now just subsidiaries of giant companies who have moved most of their interests toward digital subscription. Paramount and CBS are like half the companies. Disney is probably 20% of the rest. Then hbo/discovery/warner. NBC folds a bunch in with Peacock and so on. Then you have Amazon, Apple, and Google who have to spend big money to play catch-up because they don’t have pre-existing networks to transition to the new business model.

Long story short, these games don’t exist to increase ratings of the regular season. They exist to create a separate entity out of already existing content to create a new league business partner.

it’s going to be Apple, Amazon, or YouTube. One of the new players who are all spending billions on content. It’s all in 10 year cycles. Who knows where it will be by next time. Elon Musk is already asking for volunteers for brain chips. In 50 years you might subscribe to a service from a company that doesn’t exist yet that can transmit the memory of having watched the game to your mind without you having to take the time out of your day to do so.

And people will still be talking about ratings while these billion dollar companies become trillion dollar companies having direct access implanted in the brain of every American.

Theyre selling this to companies that don’t run ads….theyre after a billion internet impressions not 7 million viewers in front of a tv.

A massive segment of their target audience doesn’t even watch tv. They watch TikTok, Instagram, highlights, and stream a little content before bed. Traditional ratings come from people who will age out of the market in a few years.

They wanna see the tourney finals trending on Twitter. How many live viewers it got will be reported if it’s a big number but not cared about internally.

I was listening to a baseball executive Explain exactly that to the former head of ESPN on the show they do. They have less viewers than ever, but make more money than ever. The ratings drop and the money rises and they all figured out why.

Ratings pay networks. Networks are near dead and live sports is all that’s keeping them afloat. They have the golden ticket to move subscribers from one platform to the next version. How many people use it when the 9.99 clears is immaterial. Like I said…the bidders sell a service that doesn’t air ADs to begin with. The whole way we judge performance has to change.

[kawhileonard2]

Its a gimmick unless everyone is playing same level competition.

[Street Hunger]

I think it's fun

[SATAN]

A lot of what you're saying is true but that doesn't change the fact there is a major effort to manufacture hype and pull the wool over the eyes of true basketball fans by feeding us this absolute crap.

You know so badly that someone like Barkley would love a segment where they could roast this meaningless garbage. Instead we have every commentator and analyst trying extremely hard to convince us that they care and find it so fascinating. You have guys like Harlan and Brian Anderson calling the TNT games like it's Game 7 and trying to overcall things so they can land in a commercial or something. Much like Shaq's "are you not entertained!?!?" soundbite that just never dies. Reggie howling like he's watching a Dream Team scrimmage or something when it's just a random bench player with a reverse layup or an open 3. Too much corporate appeasement and artificial enthusiasm for me. The masquerade that it's so competitive when even blowout losses are played up like they are "changing the landscape" of the tournament because of point differential... as if that hides the fact it was an uncompetitive, pointless blowout and that's it. Pretty hard not to make it look competitive when you're ascribing such lofty meaning to total beatdown blowouts. It's repulsive. The courts don't look good. The stakes are trivial, and this will be looked at no different than a team winning the Summer League unless it is changed. Who gives a ****?

Will it be looked at as a success? Sure...but no different than, say, a YouTube clickbait video made by a kid that was incredibly dumb and still managed to get 15 million views and generate buckets of ad money. It's not hard to make something a "success" if that's the standard.

Are you ok?

[Xiao Yao You]

Are you ok?

hasn't been the same since Greg Monroe flamed out a 2nd time

[RRR3]

Are you ok?
He's completely right. It's fine if you're entertained but don't say people who see this for what is is are "melting down" for pointing out facts.

[Real Men Wear Green]

He's completely right. It's fine if you're entertained but don't say people who see this for what is is are "melting down" for pointing out facts.

Well on the flip side what is wrong with a business promoting its own product? Isn't that to be expected? NBA exists to make money. If they can get extra attention with this tournament it makes them more money. There is nothing wrong with that unless you are offended by making money. They are trying to entertain basketball fans. Short of playing basketball ourselves I don't see what as basketball fans we are going to find more entertaining regarding basketball than watching NBA games. But this tournament seems to be a real problem for some of you. Maybe not you specifically but some of the posters in this thread are upset that this tournament exists. "How dare they create something new and say that it's important?" I'm not going to ask why, I understand the basic kind of thinking behind that stance. But it's not logical. We're basketball fans, this is basketball, the players are playing hard, there isn't a true problem here.

[Xiao Yao You]

can't quit me!

[SATAN]

He's completely right. It's fine if you're entertained but don't say people who see this for what is is are "melting down" for pointing out facts.

If early December games are usually boring and the tournament sucks then why even bother watching any of it? You're not a genius for recognizing marketing ffs.

[RRR3]

Well on the flip side what is wrong with a business promoting its own product? Isn't that to be expected? NBA exists to make money. If they can get extra attention with this tournament it makes them more money. There is nothing wrong with that unless you are offended by making money. They are trying to entertain basketball fans. Short of playing basketball ourselves I don't see what as basketball fans we are going to find more entertaining regarding basketball than watching NBA games. But this tournament seems to be a real problem for some of you. Maybe not you specifically but some of the posters in this thread are upset that this tournament exists. "How dare they create something new and say that it's important?" I'm not going to ask why, I understand the basic kind of thinking behind that stance. But it's not logical. We're basketball fans, this is basketball, the players are playing hard, there isn't a true problem here.
Well the money isn't distributed fairly by any means, so yes I do have a problem with this. Mostly the owners and high ranking members of franchises get the lion's share of the profits, with the average joes working concessions or ushering getting basically nothing. Making money just to continue a highly capitalist organization's corrupt system isn't good at all. "But but you watch NBA, RRR3!", yeah I like basketball, doesn't mean I support the organization.

[RRR3]

If early December games are usually boring and the tournament sucks then why even bother watching any of it? You're not a genius for recognizing marketing ffs.
I have always found basketball entertaining all year round personally :confusedshrug:

[Real Men Wear Green]

Well the money isn't distributed fairly by any means, so yes I do have a problem with this. Mostly the owners and high ranking members of franchises get the lion's share of the profits, with the average joes working concessions or ushering getting basically nothing. Making money just to continue a highly capitalist organization's corrupt system isn't good at all. "But but you watch NBA, RRR3!", yeah I like basketball, doesn't mean I support the organization.

This is about your belief system beyond just basketball. I am certain that most of the people against the tournament don't disagree with it for these reasons, which you are likely aware would extend to regular season and playoff games just as much as they do this tournament.

[bison]

I have always found basketball entertaining all year round personally :confusedshrug:

Fuming.

The IST has surprised me. Players are actually motivated for it and audiences have reacted favorably to it. Getting intense basketball in December is a W for Silver. Also if lakers win the IST they will officially have more trophies than Boston :rockon:

[SaltyMeatballs]

can't quit me!

shut the **** up dude

[RRR3]

shut the **** up dude
:roll:

[Jasper]

obviously Milwaukee isn't

[bison]

Next year they should do the IST final four at The Sphere :rockon: