I’ll have peace on the following terms.

[Kblaze8855]

Nash keeps the 06 MVP but surrenders 05 to Dirk or Shaq.

Acknowledge that Bird was better than Magic and I’ll acknowledge the difference wasn’t big enough to fight about.

Barkley was better than Malone at basketball but I admit Malone had a better career(possibly because of longevity sourced from absorbing the ambient youth when he hung out with his victims but that’s neither here nor there).

Marcus Smart is a great defender but shouldn’t have a DPOY because Timelord was the best defender on that team.

In an isolation clutch situation, where there is at least time for two jab steps, and a one dribble pull up prime Carmelo Anthony is top 15ish all time even though I understand if you don’t want him as your franchise player on the money he would command today.


i’m gonna need at least three of those terms agreed to. I will hear your counter terms. Just know I’m prepared for this war to continue come the spring thaw. I won’t ask my men to return home with nothing to show for our efforts. Grant me 3 or the bloodshed continues.

[warriorfan]

Nash keeps the 06 MVP but surrenders 05 to Dirk or Shaq.

Acknowledge that Bird was better than Magic and I’ll acknowledge the difference wasn’t big enough to fight about.

Barkley was better than Malone at basketball but I admit Malone had a better career(possibly because of longevity sourced from absorbing the ambient youth when he hung out with his victims but that’s neither here nor there).

Marcus Smart is a great defender but shouldn’t have a DPOY because Timelord was the best defender on that team.

In an isolation clutch situation, where there is at least time for two jab steps, and a one dribble pull up prime Carmelo Anthony is top 15ish all time even though I understand if you don’t want him as your franchise player on the money he would command today.


i’m gonna need at least three of those terms agreed to. I will hear your counter terms. Just know I’m prepared for this war to continue come the spring thaw. I won’t ask my men to return home with nothing to show for our efforts. Grant me 3 or the bloodshed continues.

in the melo situation he might be top 5

williams was way better with eye test and numbers but i think he missed a lot of games so that factored into voting. still i wouldn’t have given it to smart, i’ll take jrue over smart

the rest of the topics i don’t really care much about

[highwhey]

bring bacc the rep system

[Kblaze8855]

in the melo situation he might be top 5

williams was way better with eye test and numbers but i think he missed a lot of games so that factored into voting. still i wouldn’t have given it to smart, i’ll take jrue over smart

the rest of the topics i don’t really care much about


Im gonna need one more agreed to. My campaign come the spring will be swift and brutal otherwise. Spare your people. I’ll have a concession or choke your rivers with both our dead.

[Kblaze8855]

bring bacc the rep system

We would never financially recover from that.

[FKAri]

#1. No. Nash deserved both. NBA was changing. Suns and Nash were ahead of the curve so you can argue about league having not caught up and all that. But regardless the impact was there.

#2. Yes. Bird was slightly better than Magic when they were both healthy and in their primes. It's certainly not big enough to fight about. But it's amazing how everyone has forgotten this and acts like Magic was just straight up better.

#3-5 Yes.

[Kblaze8855]

#1. No. Nash deserved both. NBA was changing. Suns and Nash were ahead of the curve so you can argue about league having not caught up and all that. But regardless the impact was there.




I feel like dirk never got a fair look. The league MVP left your team and was replaced by a good role player but the team got better? Mark and the other guy is playing as one of four All-Stars three of which are franchise players at that time, or or shortly after?

How many players better than Joe Johnson did Dirk play with from 04 to retirement?

Joe was the fourth guy on the 05 suns.

Dirk did some pretty heavy lifting himself.

[FultzNationRISE]

Nash keeps the 06 MVP but surrenders 05 to Dirk or Shaq.

It's splitting hairs. No problem with Nash winning, wouldnt have a problem if Shaq won. Without knowing/caring about the season stats or anything, I'd take both just ahead of Dirk at that time.



Marcus Smart is a great defender but shouldn’t have a DPOY because Timelord was the best defender on that team.

In a measurable context maybe so but I think Smart's leadership as the 'quarterback' of that defense in addition to being a hound individually counts for something. I dont see it as a miscarriage of justice.

[FultzNationRISE]

#1. No. Nash deserved both. NBA was changing. Suns and Nash were ahead of the curve so you can argue about league having not caught up and all that. But regardless the impact was there.

#2. Yes. Bird was slightly better than Magic when they were both healthy and in their primes. It's certainly not big enough to fight about. But it's amazing how everyone has forgotten this and acts like Magic was just straight up better.

#3-5 Yes.

Most fans dont do anything but count rings, what do you expect.

[FultzNationRISE]

I feel like dirk never got a fair look. The league MVP left your team and was replaced by a good role player but the team got better? Mark and the other guy is playing as one of four All-Stars three of which are franchise players at that time, or or shortly after?

How many players better than Joe Johnson did Dirk play with from 04 to retirement?

Joe was the fourth guy on the 05 suns.

Dirk did some pretty heavy lifting himself.

Ehh, I'd argue even the '11 versions of Kidd and Marion help you win a championship at least as much as Joe Johnson. From a team perspective I think even guys like Terry and Chandler contribute as much to winning as Iso Joe.

I'm not saying they're better, but I dont think it's a linear relationship between point totals and contributions to winning. The difference is much finer than it appears at a glance.

[Kblaze8855]

Its often presented as a black versus white thing in documentaries, and I’m sure there was some of that but I was in Chicago and the deep south back-and-forth in those days around almost exclusively Black people some of which were old enough to have watched Elgin Baylor and Bill Russell play in person as adults and they thought Larry Bird was the best ever. It wasn’t always put in those modern terms, but that’s what they were saying. A lot of old Black people say that. Wilt raves about Larry Bird in a couple of his books. Had him as a starter on his all-time team with Jordan as the sixth man. I didn’t know anybody who didn’t respect Larry Bird until people too young to have seen him play started making assumptions About what he was.

And I don’t necessarily blame them. A lot of the people who respect him so much assumed the same thing till the game started.

he’s one of those people you’re just never going to understand from anecdotes and stats. Or even highlights. He was so fundamentally sound but also a free willing creative guy, but he also played like he was the 10th man on a non-guaranteed contract.

he played as hard as Allen Iverson or Russell Westbrook, while simultaneously being patient and in control like a Tim Duncan. Hard to explain really. He was like the midpoint between Jokic and Kobe. You go look at game logs of games I watched and he has like 21 nine and 5 on 7 of 16 shooting but we were watching it knowing he absolutely destroyed us.

[Kblaze8855]

Ehh, I'd argue even the '11 versions of Kidd and Marion help you win a championship at least as much as Joe Johnson. From a team perspective I think even guys like Terry and Chandler contribute as much to winning as Iso Joe.

I'm not saying they're better, but I dont think it's a linear relationship between point totals and contributions to winning. The difference is much finer than it appears at a glance.


But the peak version of Marion and Amare were on the team as well. Dirk never played with anyone as good as either of them either. It’s just a matter of how many of Nash’s teammates at that time would’ve been the best help Dirk had in his prime. Not if they were.

Gently used but not quite washed. Jason Kidd versus Peak. Sean Marion is at least a discussion. And Amare was going to to toe with prime Tim Duncan at the same time. Add in the fact that Nash himself had left the team? Them winning 58 or 59 games should’ve gotten Dirk more of a look than it did.

[Carbine]

Blaze will always gravitate towards iso players. You should see this man play 2K, his usage rate is legendary. We are talking 50 percent range. Blaze doesn't identify with off ball impact so he has a tough time seeing it when evaluating the game - which is why he says things like Dirk never had a better teammate than Joe Johnson.

[Xiao Yao You]

in the melo situation he might be top 5

williams was way better with eye test and numbers but i think he missed a lot of games so that factored into voting. still i wouldn’t have given it to smart, i’ll take jrue over smart

the rest of the topics i don’t really care much about

and Gobert was better than ever but had already lost because he couldn't guard 5 guys at once in the playoffs the season before

[Kblaze8855]

Blaze will always gravitate towards iso players. You should see this man play 2K, his usage rate is legendary. We are talking 50 percent range. Blaze doesn't identify with off ball impact so he has a tough time seeing it when evaluating the game - which is why he says things like Dirk never had a better teammate than Joe Johnson.


Didn’t you lose us the greatest game we ever played while we had gone on like a 30 game win streak without you?

Was that me getting you touches over the objections of the rest of the team?

I drug you kicking and screaming to some double digit scoring games.

[FultzNationRISE]

But the peak version of Marion and Amare were on the team as well. Dirk never played with anyone as good as either of them either. It’s just a matter of how many of Nash’s teammates at that time would’ve been the best help Dirk had in his prime. Not if they were.

Gently used but not quite washed. Jason Kidd versus Peak. Sean Marion is at least a discussion. And Amare was going to to toe with prime Tim Duncan at the same time. Add in the fact that Nash himself had left the team? Them winning 58 or 59 games should’ve gotten Dirk more of a look than it did.

True but I'm also not sure it's fair to count the Suns versions of those guys in a comparison, considering Nash himself helped them reach that level. They would not necessarily make that same level of impact playing with Dirk or anyone else.

[Xiao Yao You]

True but I'm also not sure it's fair to count the Suns versions of those guys in a comparison, considering Nash himself helped them reach that level. They would not necessarily make that same level of impact playing with Dirk or anyone else.

Nash didn't reach that level playing with Dirk

[Kblaze8855]

and Gobert was better than ever but had already lost because he couldn't guard 5 guys at once in the playoffs the season before

Guarding the whole other team is what the rim protector is there for. But he can’t do it when taken out to 25 feet.


https://www.hostpic.org/images/2312050427250364.jpeg



People go in knowing if he guards them they just need to be ready to shoot because his instinct is to sag back into the paint to stop drives. People are hoping to get Gobert defending them in the playoffs. Whoever he’s guarding is gonna eat.

His job is to guard the whole other team by being help. He can’t do that when his man can shoot. So teams plan to let his man shoot.

Hes a hot hand from being a defensive liability the rest of his career in a league that rigs itself against perimeter defense so he’s always gonna have to choose to protect the paint or get bombed on. The league lets wings travel, carry, and doesn’t let defenders hold them at all. Nobody can keep these monsters out of the paint.

Hes a walking layup line if he stays outside on his man or he’s shooting practice. Hard to do anything about that. Nobody like him in history could do it any different. Some could give you more on offense to counter it though.

A guy like Dwight would be giving up 3s as well but he’d score 38 if you guard him with a wing so it more than levels out.

[Kblaze8855]

True but I'm also not sure it's fair to count the Suns versions of those guys in a comparison, considering Nash himself helped them reach that level. They would not necessarily make that same level of impact playing with Dirk or anyone else.


Kidd and Marbury Marion was better than Josh Howard or not quite done Kidd and so was pre injury Knicks Amare.

[highwhey]

We would never financially recover from that.

:oldlol:

[SouBeachTalents]

https://www.hostpic.org/images/2312050427250364.jpeg
:roll:

[tpols]

Didn’t you lose us the greatest game we ever played while we had gone on like a 30 game win streak without you?

Was that me getting you touches over the objections of the rest of the team?

I drug you kicking and screaming to some double digit scoring games.

:roll:

Carbine getting hit with the "these hoes ain't loyal" ĥook.


https://youtu.be/JXRN_LkCa_o?si=Opw2nE3343b66v3v

[Xiao Yao You]

Guarding the whole other team is what the rim protector is there for. But he can’t do it when taken out to 25 feet.


https://www.hostpic.org/images/2312050427250364.jpeg



People go in knowing if he guards them they just need to be ready to shoot because his instinct is to sag back into the paint to stop drives. People are hoping to get Gobert defending them in the playoffs. Whoever he’s guarding is gonna eat.

His job is to guard the whole other team by being help. He can’t do that when his man can shoot. So teams plan to let his man shoot.

Hes a hot hand from being a defensive liability the rest of his career in a league that rigs itself against perimeter defense so he’s always gonna have to choose to protect the paint or get bombed on. The league lets wings travel, carry, and doesn’t let defenders hold them at all. Nobody can keep these monsters out of the paint.

Hes a walking layup line if he stays outside on his man or he’s shooting practice. Hard to do anything about that. Nobody like him in history could do it any different. Some could give you more on offense to counter it though.

A guy like Dwight would be giving up 3s as well but he’d score 38 if you guard him with a wing so it more than levels out.

If he didn't sag back into the paint it was a layup. The Wolves have solved the problem by putting guys on the floor that have all bought in defensively so he's able to guard the perimeter or rim without having to worry because they have his back. Gobert will score too if he has teammates that will give up the ball which he didn't in Utah or at least the two guys with the ball most of the time

[Kblaze8855]

:roll:

Carbine getting hit with the "these hoes ain't loyal" ĥook.


https://youtu.be/JXRN_LkCa_o?si=Opw2nE3343b66v3v

The truth:


there was a good three-year run on 2K when they first started letting your players play together where we had a team of people from here. I was generally the point guard. Gobb Was always a two or three and we played yearly and developed crazy chemistry. I came up with an offense where my big guard(Nickel Hardaway…) would post up the other teams point who was never used to playing post defense and I would back him down while somebody would run off my hip and I drop the ball off to them for an easy layup. Once the other team adjusted to the layup, I could simply fade the other way and shoot over the point or drop step into the lane for my own layup. nobody playing point on 2K is used to post defense

it was a good strategy and let us stay in against cheaters. Back then you could hack your player file so guys would be 7 foot five point guards, running like Iverson and dunking from the free-throw line. We had to figure out a counter. My way was admittedly slowing down the games, but we started winning. not wanting to ball hog it we wouldn’t do it all the time but anytime we have a run of bad offense somebody would be like “Let’s get a Sabonis” because that’s what I called it(10 years before his son brought back the dribble handoff).

carbine would always make a center. Remember me telling you about the 7’5” monsters? One of them would always be at center of course. So he has a player rated like a 70 and he’s playing a 99 everything 7 foot five monster. We have a working offense playing outside in And he’s complaining about post touches like Dwight Howard. He’s being guarded by 7 foot five Hakeem!

i’m shooting like 65% and having games with 20 assist where I might not shoot three times. We were winning. We were winning against cheaters. But he wasn’t happy with his role. I’m out here calling isolations for the 70 Rated Center to play one on one against Steroid injected super humans just to keep the peace and hes still salty we didn’t play through him a decade later.


Let Gobb or Eurobum(the only 2 left from those days) see this. They’ll confirm. He on some Salt Bae shit just sprinkling it all over.

[Jasper]

ewing should have a ring