Jonathan Kuminga is a LIABILITY on team defense for the Warriors

[bdonovan]

I've been on this board a few years, and have made many posts about team defense. Most fans watch the ball, focused on offense. The only defense they notice is the high profile block or steal; which is not defense, it's a small portion of the whole.

The biggest part of team defense is ONE thing: stay on your man - even and especially when he doesn't have the ball. When you leave your man, you BREAK the team defense. Your man is free, someone else guards him, now His man is free. Once the opponent breaks your defense, they get an easy shot usually.

Kuminga offensively was superb for the Warriors against the Blazers (Weds Dec 6). He was atrocious on team defense. After a high profile slam dunk, he let up a 3 pointer by the Blazers by not guarding his man. This happened repeatedly.

Routinely, Kuminga did what I call "improvised zone". This is when a player refuses to guard his man and stays near the paint. This is NOT helpful and not part of any defensive design. It is lazy energy conservation. I lost count how many times Kuminga broke the Warriors defense by doing this. When your man is on the perimeter, do not stand 10 feet away from him near the paint, fool. Guard your man, that's objective #1.

The simpleton casual fan is impressed by such play. He sees impressive offense. On defense, when Kuminga is conserving energy with "improvised zone", the opposing team scores but the fan doesn't know why, clearly doesn't attribute it to someone like Kuminga- because when Kuminga's man is open, he penetrates and then passes to someone else who is open because Klay or someone else had to guard Kuminga's man. When that Blazer scores, no one knows it's Kuminga's fault.

Durant did the same thing when he was on the Warriors.

Typical responses include "wull he scored X points" or "he had that major steal what are you talking about?". Both points are irrelevant and not germane to what I'm talking about.

Guard your man. Do not lose your man. Move your feet around screens and switch rapidly.

Kuminga only played half the game; he shouldn't have to conserve energy by lolligagging on D. The worst thing about "improvised zone" hanging out near the paint is the individual occasionally gets a high profile block so the casual fan thinks he's a great defender. Meanwhile ignoring the dozens of easy buckets he's giving up by breaking the defense.

Kuminga has enormous potential. In ISO he's gifted. If the Warriors want to start winning consistently, EACH player has to buy into all four elements of winning basketball: Individual Offense, TEAM Offense, Individual Defense, TEAM defense. Kuminga checks one, maybe two of those boxes.

Kuminga gave up as many buckets as he scored today. The average fan and commentator won't realize it. But if we don't fix these issues, beating a team like Portland is maybe all we can hope to accomplish. The younger players have to learn to play the game the right way; there's a big difference between high profile ESPN highlight ISO and winning a championship.

[FultzNationRISE]

I was just about to make a thread asking where you were.

Jokic had the kind of bad shooting night he has about once every 60 days, and usually thats like the bat signal for you to pop out of the woodwork.


And here you are :lol

[warriorfan]

what sucks is he just doesn’t have all the tools, he can put it together, i’ve seen him do it on stretches, i’ve seen him give lebron fits getting close to 2014 meltdowns. it’s frustrating. i was low key done on kuminga finally going into this year. i wanted to try to flip him and chris paul and a million draft picks for jrue holiday

[warriorfan]

and also people ask why kuminga doesn’t get PT. this is some of the shit that goes to it.

give moody klay’s mins

let kuminga sit.

[Axe]

The kid will never be able to develop formidably if they have to keep on reducing or limiting him to a mere screensetting role, like what they did before with oubre jr. bt.

[warriorfan]

The kid will never be able to develop formidably if they have to keep on reducing or limiting him to a mere screensetting role, like what they did before with oubre jr. bt.

wow, sounds like someone we all know (unfortunately)

[Axe]

Yes, poole has become trash after being traded off-season. But it still doesn't take away the fact that the warriors have a worse record rn in their first twenty games than they did the previous season.

[GimmeThat]

the Warriors defense is built on fast break points and points off turnovers. at some point, Chris Paul has to become the guy to anchor on defense and let players leak out first.

but again, they have to be able to do this without getting into foul troubles

[Xiao Yao You]

Yes, poole has become trash after being traded off-season. But it still doesn't take away the fact that the warriors have a worse record rn in their first twenty games than they did the previous season.

an old team getting worse as they age. You've really struck upon something here!

[tontoz]

an old team getting worse as they age. You've really struck upon something here!

I am not convinced they are worse. They've had the toughest schedule in the league so far. Wiggins and Klay had horrible stretches to start the season. Green and Steph have missed some time.

I think the strength of their bench will start to show over the course of the season.

Kuminga just seems to lack awareness which is a big problem on defense when you have to make quick decisions about rotations.

[GimmeThat]

I am not convinced they are worse. They've had the toughest schedule in the league so far. Wiggins and Klay had horrible stretches to start the season. Green and Steph have missed some time.

I think the strength of their bench will start to show over the course of the season.

Kuminga just seems to lack awareness which is a big problem on defense when you have to make quick decisions about rotations.

they don't have the FG% of those previous Warriors team to make up the differences when giving up offensive rebounds for a better transition defense

[Axe]

an old team getting worse as they age. You've really struck upon something here!
Meltdown. Only had to bring it up because it was said earlier that they're supposed to be better now with cp3, dumbass.

[bdonovan]

what sucks is he just doesn’t have all the tools, he can put it together, i’ve seen him do it on stretches, i’ve seen him give lebron fits getting close to 2014 meltdowns. it’s frustrating. i was low key done on kuminga finally going into this year. i wanted to try to flip him and chris paul and a million draft picks for jrue holiday

He does. He can play defense when he wants to. He has the youth, the physique, the speed and strength.

We miss Ron Adams at the helm of defense; maybe he's technically still there but I don't think he's in charge of defense anymore. The Warriors team pre-Durant never made fundamental mistakes like this- like playing defense the wrong way.

What's interesting is that Kuminga may be doing this intentionally to get into the starting lineup; the way you get people's attention, especially the fan base, is by playing sensational offense. If you slack on team d, as I mentioned, people don't notice because it's usually not your man scoring. When Kuminga keeps fresh legs by slacking on D, he positions himself for better offense. Then when he scores like he does, the fan will demand he start over Wiggins. It's a cynical ploy but it works.

Durant did the same thing to give people impression he was the best player on the Warriors team- because most people, fans, commentators, and nba journalists alike don't really pay attention to team defense.

[bdonovan]

The kid will never be able to develop formidably if they have to keep on reducing or limiting him to a mere screensetting role, like what they did before with oubre jr. bt.

You believe Oubre when he said that? I'm watching every game when he was on the team, and he just plain sucked. He couldn't hit the 3 ball, he couldn't create. I was excited when he joined the team because I like his intensity and defense. But he shot under 32% from 3 pt line.

When he was on the Hornets last year and scoring 20 pts/game, he was still shooting under 32% from 3 pt line but taking 7+ attempts a game! I don't think this guy helps the team; he's just chucking.

The Warriors told him to stop shooting low percentage shots and I think he just got bitter. You have Curry, Thompson that year shooting over 40% I believe from 3 (Wiggins was 38%). But he didn't want to set screens for the others because it was "beneath him".

I hope Kuminga doesn't fall into that mentality.

[Axe]

You believe Oubre when he said that? I'm watching every game when he was on the team, and he just plain sucked. He couldn't hit the 3 ball, he couldn't create. I was excited when he joined the team because I like his intensity and defense. But he shot under 32% from 3 pt line.

When he was on the Hornets last year and scoring 20 pts/game, he was still shooting under 32% from 3 pt line but taking 7+ attempts a game! I don't think this guy helps the team; he's just chucking.

The Warriors told him to stop shooting low percentage shots and I think he just got bitter. You have Curry, Thompson that year shooting over 40% I believe from 3 (Wiggins was 38%). But he didn't want to set screens for the others because it was "beneath him".

I hope Kuminga doesn't fall into that mentality.
Well, he isn't klay thompson for all we know. Tho they had no choice but have oubre jr. as one of the substitutes while he was still recovering from his achilles bt. Didn't really expect anything about him tbh because he never grew with that kind of system and isn't consistent enough on putting remarkable numbers in every game. However, was anticipating curry to 'elevate' him somehow despite oubre's flaws but they ended up being short-handed instead.


Also, if this funny old thread about oubre jr. helps...

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?487615-Prediction-people-will-be-saying-Oubre-gt-Klay-at-times-this-next-season

[tontoz]

28 turnovers last night was ridiculous. I can't remember seeing a team making that many turnovers in a game.

[hold this L]

28 turnovers last night was ridiculous. I can't remember seeing a team making that many turnovers in a game.
It's the most of any NBA team this season.

[warriorfan]

Well, he isn't klay thompson for all we know. Tho they had no choice but have oubre jr. as one of the substitutes while he was still recovering from his achilles bt. Didn't really expect anything about him tbh because he never grew with that kind of system and isn't consistent enough on putting remarkable numbers in every game. However, was anticipating curry to 'elevate' him somehow despite oubre's flaws but they ended up being short-handed instead.


Also, if this funny old thread about oubre jr. helps...

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?487615-Prediction-people-will-be-saying-Oubre-gt-Klay-at-times-this-next-season

oubre led the league in wide open 3 pointers according to play tracking

the system was working and he would be getting elevated he just couldn’t hit wide open shots

standing at the 3 point line while curry gets trapped off a screen and you receive a wide open shot isn’t rocket science, even oubre the lowest iq dude could figure it out, he just flat out sucks

[Axe]

So it only proves that not everyone could be effective playing within their system unless it became a part of their routine playstyle for a lengthy period of time, while they were still growing or developing since a relatively young age. What's more, even before he came there, oubre never shot over 35% in the long range and was never a part of an all-star selection. But who knows what he could have been if he was in the place of klay instead since way back before, assuming he worked a lot to improve his shooting there with the given time to develop.

[warriorfan]

So it only proves that not everyone could be effective playing within their system unless it became a part of their routine playstyle for a lengthy period of time, while they were still growing or developing since a relatively young age. What's more, even before he came there, oubre never shot over 35% in the long range and was never a part of an all-star selection. But who knows what he could have been if he was in the place of klay instead since way back before, assuming he worked a lot to improve his shooting there with the given time to develop.

it proves oubre is trash

[tontoz]

Oubre has been on 5 teams since 2018. That should be self explanatory.

[Xiao Yao You]

Oubre has been on 5 teams since 2018. That should be self explanatory.

on a minimum contract now he's so valued

[Axe]

Tbf, his one-season stay with the warriors only highlighted the importance of klay to the team while he was gone. And there are strong evidences why. His role can't simply be replicated by anyone else. With oubre jr., only 3ball (or anyone outright deranged like him) is retarded enough to think it's possible tho.

[tontoz]

Tbf, his one-season stay with the warriors only highlighted the importance of klay to the team while he was gone. And there are strong evidences why. He simply can't be replicated by anyone else. Only 3ball (or anyone deranged like him) is retarded enough to think it's possible tho.

Right let's just ignore that the warriors had the best record in the league the following season before Klay even played his first game.

[Axe]

Poole and kuminga helped in holding off the team's rivals while waiting for him to come back. :applause:

[tontoz]

Poole and kuminga helped in holding off the team's rivals while waiting for him to come back. :applause:



Kuminga didn't play much that year and the only reason Poole looked competent is because the defense was so focused on Curry. Now that Poole is on another team he is getting exposed.

[Axe]

Okay then uncle, i guess 70 isn't more than twice of the rs games klay played in for that season. :confusedshrug:

[tontoz]

Okay then uncle, i guess 70 isn't more than twice of the rs games klay played in for that season. :confusedshrug:



Are you talking about kuminga, who played half as many minutes per game as Curry?

:roll:

[warriorfan]

axe is straight handicapped

this is kinda scary…

[Axe]

Thanks but i'm fine. Don't know how it's like to be high on c.r. yet.


Are you talking about kuminga, who played half as many minutes per game as Curry?

:roll:
So? Wasn't he just a rookie bt?

[tontoz]

Thanks but i'm fine. Don't know how it's like to be high on c.r. yet.


So? Wasn't he just a rookie bt?

Yes which is why it's strange that you brought him up as if he was an impact player. A lot of his minutes were in garbage time .

[warriorfan]

tbh i’m pretty sure axe is highwhey, he has the same weird incoherency as him paired with the little to zero basketball knowledge

[Axe]

^^Hey, breathe through your nose. Not through the pipe, please.

Thank you.


Yes which is why it's strange that you brought him up as if he was an impact player. A lot of his minutes were in garbage time .
Alright, let's replace him with wiggins instead. :pimp: