This is Doncics year for MVP imo

[ArbitraryWater]

He has the numbers and performances (like usual), no weird coming-into-season out of shape narrative, and the record is holding up.

The record and seeding was good enough in 2022 but Jokic probably just edged it.

You could give it to Jokic any year but Luka has an equal caim to it, it woudnt he a handout as with Embiid (who in fairness had a damn good year too).

And the Mavs actually have a better record than the Nuggets right now.



P.S:

Luka currently has 20 after the first quarter against the Timberwolves, with Irving out :lol

[tontoz]

I think jokic actually looks a little heavy relative to last year. His efficiency is down.

Mavs made some good personnel moves this year. Grant/Lively especially look like A+ additions.

Apparently doncic took his conditioning seriously in the off-season and actually brought his trainer with him from overseas. He's shooting well from 3. The door is definitely open for him win MVP.

[SATAN]

They gave it to Westbrook when he also stat padded like his life depended on it so sure, why not.

There's been games where Kyrie has had to bail him out and everyone just forgets about them. Memories like gold fish.

[tontoz]

They gave it to Westbrook when he also stat padded like his life depended on it so sure, why not.

There's been games where Kyrie has had to bail him out and everyone just forgets about them. Memories like gold fish.


They are 5-1 without Kyrie this season. U mad?

[SATAN]

They are 5-1 without Kyrie this season. U mad?

Absolutely furious.

[ArbitraryWater]

They gave it to Westbrook when he also stat padded like his life depended on it so sure, why not.

There's been games where Kyrie has had to bail him out and everyone just forgets about them. Memories like gold fish.


Who tf cares?


Do you actually think thats an argument?

Jezuz christ

[SATAN]

Who tf cares?


Do you actually think thats an argument?

Jezuz christ

Oh sorry I forgot, also got bailed out by Dante Exum of all people. :lol

[SATAN]

The headband looks stupid...

[SATAN]

He has to win. Less stat padding, more winning.

[ArbitraryWater]

Did you drink something?

Or are you genuinely that triggered by me?

[Real Men Wear Green]

I don't know which season but he'll win an mvp eventually due to his stat lines and his clutch play ability. But he will not reach his true potential without a more serious focus on defense. Between the ball dominance and the need for teammates that can cover him defensively he requires especially unselfish 3 and D roleplayers and a second option that is on from time to time being relegated to roleplayer status. I am not sure because I want paying close attention but I suspect that this is why Porzingis didn't work out, because he had too much ego to accept that role and also possibly resented the defense. Conversely a younger Jalen Brunson that was happy to shine when it was his turn could accept that just fine. He is worth building around and counting on maturation to partially fix the problem but until he raises the defensive effort and focus he's a bad fit for a contender, though again I do think he can win mvp. Just when he dies the next sentence will be about how Giannis and Jokic are still better than him.

[tpols]

What I like most about Luka is he has an MJ or Bird level of mental toughness and competitiveness.

If Luka had the mind of like... current sabonis or bogdanovic, whose really really good in their own right... he wouldnt be shit.

It's his mental prowess and anticipation (much like jokic) combined with this crazy angry competitive nature that gives us this unreal talent.

[90sgoat]

His issue is that the team sucks defensively, so they're going to lose a bunch of games against strong western teams like Minny, particularly when Lively or Irving isn't playing.

He is better in almost all areas this year, but still doesn't take defense seriously enough.

I could see Jokic winning again if they finish above Mavs and Mavs slip out of the top 3 in the West. I don't see Embiid winning again, that would be absurd.

[StrongLurk]

What I like most about Luka is he has an MJ or Bird level of mental toughness and competitiveness.

If Luka had the mind of like... current sabonis or bogdanovic, whose really really good in their own right... he wouldnt be shit.

It's his mental prowess and anticipation (much like jokic) combined with this crazy angry competitive nature that gives us this unreal talent.

He has mental toughness/competitiveness on offense only. Not defense.

[tontoz]

When i've watched the games what i see doesn't match up with the narrative. From what i've seen Doncic is putting more effort into his D.

[999Guy]

What I like most about Luka is he has an MJ or Bird level of mental toughness and competitiveness.

If Luka had the mind of like... current sabonis or bogdanovic, whose really really good in their own right... he wouldnt be shit.

It's his mental prowess and anticipation (much like jokic) combined with this crazy angry competitive nature that gives us this unreal talent.

This dude has spent the past 4 years being a terrible late game performer due to blowing his load early and being in generally bad shape conditioning wise.

Get out of here with this. It’s become pretty damn clear what Luka is and has been by now. This is early prime Harden all over again. Other than the fact that Luka has a more complete game than Harden. But the laziness, attitude on court, late game shittery, disrespect for the game with shit shot selection and play style, awful defense.

Luka has not clocked in a good defensive year yet. Not even an average one actually. When Harden was fighting for minutes early in his OKC career he was good on defense until he starting scoring and passing well, and then he played like current Luka until his was 28.

Luka is not an MVP, not a two-way player, not using his gifts to his best ability, and has not being insanely dedicated or focused in his career yet, at all.

I can’t believe OP said Luka’s bad conditioning was a ‘narrative’, are you nuts? Why did he generally suck to start the 3 seasons before this, and why did he and the Mavericks always sputter at the end of games? Why has he never played good defense for a season?

Also, his body got ridiculous in the 21 - 23 stretch. Luka was much fatter from 2021 to 2023 than he was in 2020. Luka’s second year in the league was his best overall year until last year.

Luka has a talent level closer to LeBron, but his mental and habitual nonsense is at the Westbrook/Harden/Durant level. Harden at least really cleaned his game up by the end of the 10’s decade, and it was clear to people in Brooklyn his game was high-substance compared to Kyrie and Durant,

[999Guy]

Luka is not close to Shai Gilgeous-Alexander right now.

He does generally nothing better than Jokic other than dribble.


I would give Gobert an MVP before him. He’s been better.

[Xiao Yao You]

Luka is not close to Shai Gilgeous-Alexander right now.

He does generally nothing better than Jokic other than dribble.


I would give Gobert an MVP before him. He’s been better.

trolls won't like that! :lol

[Manny98]

Luka is not close to Shai Gilgeous-Alexander right now.

He does generally nothing better than Jokic other than dribble.


I would give Gobert an MVP before him. He’s been better.


Imagine saying this with a straight face :facepalm

[FultzNationRISE]

I don't know which season but he'll win an mvp eventually due to his stat lines and his clutch play ability. But he will not reach his true potential without a more serious focus on defense. Between the ball dominance and the need for teammates that can cover him defensively he requires especially unselfish 3 and D roleplayers and a second option that is on from time to time being relegated to roleplayer status. I am not sure because I want paying close attention but I suspect that this is why Porzingis didn't work out, because he had too much ego to accept that role and also possibly resented the defense. Conversely a younger Jalen Brunson that was happy to shine when it was his turn could accept that just fine. He is worth building around and counting on maturation to partially fix the problem but until he raises the defensive effort and focus he's a bad fit for a contender, though again I do think he can win mvp. Just when he dies the next sentence will be about how Giannis and Jokic are still better than him.


Repeating outdated tropes.

An RMWG specialty.

[FultzNationRISE]

This dude has spent the past 4 years being a terrible late game performer due to blowing his load early and being in generally bad shape conditioning wise.

Get out of here with this. It’s become pretty damn clear what Luka is and has been by now. This is early prime Harden all over again. Other than the fact that Luka has a more complete game than Harden. But the laziness, attitude on court, late game shittery, disrespect for the game with shit shot selection and play style, awful defense.

Luka has not clocked in a good defensive year yet. Not even an average one actually. When Harden was fighting for minutes early in his OKC career he was good on defense until he starting scoring and passing well, and then he played like current Luka until his was 28.

Luka is not an MVP, not a two-way player, not using his gifts to his best ability, and has not being insanely dedicated or focused in his career yet, at all.

I can’t believe OP said Luka’s bad conditioning was a ‘narrative’, are you nuts? Why did he generally suck to start the 3 seasons before this, and why did he and the Mavericks always sputter at the end of games? Why has he never played good defense for a season?

Also, his body got ridiculous in the 21 - 23 stretch. Luka was much fatter from 2021 to 2023 than he was in 2020. Luka’s second year in the league was his best overall year until last year.

Luka has a talent level closer to LeBron, but his mental and habitual nonsense is at the Westbrook/Harden/Durant level. Harden at least really cleaned his game up by the end of the 10’s decade, and it was clear to people in Brooklyn his game was high-substance compared to Kyrie and Durant,

The idea that his lulls come exclusively in the late game is baseless.

What you are referring to is that Luka does have an EXTREME streakiness to his field goals, where he will constantly shoot 8/9 in one half and then 4/13 in the next. He almost always ends up around 50% shooting, which is solid considering his volume of threes, but he always gets there in extremely streaky fashion. His shooting is as streaky over the course of single games as anyone I've ever seen, but he always winds up around 50%. And the big burst doesnt always come in the first half. It sometimes does, but not always. And he's obviously as clutch a player as there is in the league, so acting like he's a liability in late games is absurd.

[90sgoat]

Luka won't win MVP yet, because he still has way too many of these situations where he simply doesn't bother playing defense.

In the game against Lakers, he was with Lebron at the opposing baseline and Lakers run a fast break, not very fast, and Lebron ended up with an open putback, because Luka simply didn't bother to run back. Lebron is 38 and Luka is 24. That's the kind of entitled and lazy play that simply shouldn't be seen with an MVP. It's Harden.

Until Luka understands that every possession needs effort, then he shouldn't be rewarded.

[FultzNationRISE]

Luka won't win MVP yet, because he still has way too many of these situations where he simply doesn't bother playing defense.

In the game against Lakers, he was with Lebron at the opposing baseline and Lakers run a fast break, not very fast, and Lebron ended up with an open putback, because Luka simply didn't bother to run back. Lebron is 38 and Luka is 24. That's the kind of entitled and lazy play that simply shouldn't be seen with an MVP. It's Harden.

Until Luka understands that every possession needs effort, then he shouldn't be rewarded.

When he's matched up with an opponent's primary scorer he often funnels them toward the rim protection, which makes it look like he's getting blown by but the reality is he cannot get in foul trouble or the team just loses. He has to play a "bend but dont break" style of defense in addition to a "good offense is the best defense" approach, similar to what Jokic does. It's not because they dont want to bother on defense, it's the fact the team around them collapses if they have to sit.

He actually has become very good at anticipating passes and player movement and disrupts a lot of plays by being active. But he's not gonna be a lock down perimeter defender by design, and people take too simplistic a view of what's happening. His actual effort on defense has not been weak.

[FultzNationRISE]

And sure there may be plays where he doesnt get back. But again, you only have so much energy to expend and he has a lot more natural mass than most guys at his position. He physically cant sprint up and down the floor as many times as someone built like Jayson Tatum could. It's not a lack of effort or even an issue of poor conditioning. People have different body types and nobody's gonna be a great weight lifter AND sprinter. Different guys have different limitations.

Harden doesnt get back because he simply doesnt care. Luka might give up on a few plays here or there if he feels it's wasted energy but he's not just neglecting defense in general throughout the game.

[GimmeThat]

when he can get bigs easy points down in the post. we'll talk

[90sgoat]

when he can get bigs easy points down in the post. we'll talk

He can definitely do this now.

Lively is eating good in the paint with Luka.

Sure, Lively is a very good player, but he is also a rookie and Luka is making him look like a vet.


At 73.5 percent, he’s far and away the rookie leader in field-goal success rate. And he would lead the NBA with just a few more shot attempts.

https://www.mavs.com/luka-lively-connection/

[90sgoat]

Luka might give up on a few plays here or there if he feels it's wasted energy but he's not just neglecting defense in general throughout the game.

I'm saying it looks bad. It is team morale killer.

And people who give out awards notice.

At least he isn't bitching so much anymore.

He had a kid and probably grew up overnight.

[BarberSchool]

He has mental toughness/competitiveness on offense only. Not defense.
This is 100% true.

Luka is a truly generational offensive player. Not just in terms of his hand/eye coordination and variety of scoring skill and passing skill ….but mentally, like you say. Incredibly adept at reading in real-time and making consistently correct decisions with no panic and never out of control. Can’t steal it from him despite him being a lumbering/slow 6’7” pudgy dude. He’s gonna either score, or collapse one side of the D, and get a teammate a wide open 3, or a very high percentage lob/dunk/cutting-layup.

…. BUT ….

BUUUTTTTT … if we’re talking about an MVP candidate … that’s fine. But an MVP can’t be this bad on defense.

I don’t know if it’s just his usual bad conditioning, or hiding a bad foot/bad-leg/etc …. Or what, but for at least 10-15 possessions every game, he literally does not put any effort into a defensive possession, and will just pressure the person off the 3pt line; with no effort put into actually moving his feet to recover once their dribble penetration begins. And often, no effort put into moving his feet to prevent an offensive rebound or rotate.

Someone with his predictive intelligence knows exactly where he has to move, he just chooses not to out of sheer apathetic laziness. It’s grotesque to watch, and I’m sure some of his teammates, even the ones who genuinely love Luka, resent that sort of defensive apathy.

Perhaps that will begin to change in the latter half of this season, once his conditioning gets better and better with his recent dietary changes and alcohol consumption decrease (Luka has been a fairly heavy drinker for almost 5 years now, and the Dallas social scene doesn’t exactly help this unfortunate habit)

His body over the last several weeks looks slightly less pudgy around the body than he did earlier in the season. I’m betting he came into the season around 250-255, and weighs in the low to mid 240’s now.

Keep in mind he weighed 230-235 as a rookie, and appeared MUCH slimmer at 230, then he does currently. He’s great at throwing his weight around, but at his fattest, in the 260’s, it was embarrassing. And it’s not good long term for his knees and hips and back to be over 240-245. Or drinking until very drunk after pretty much every victory.

I recall even seeing the photo of him and his pops drinking beers the afternoon before a playoff game against the warriors, and not only being mad at Luka, but furious at his pops for allowing Luka to drink Beers during an afternoon meal before a playoff game. Maybe his pops was an alcoholic and that’s part of why Divac thought lowly of him ?

[PejaTheSerbSnip]

I put money on Luka at +500 so that’d be nice. Don’t think he’s quite on the level of Jokic, Embiid yet but the possibilities are endless.

[BarberSchool]

I put money on Luka at +500 so that’d be nice. Don’t think he’s quite on the level of Jokic, Embiid yet but the possibilities are endless.
The only way he can win it this year is if the mavericks have a top 2 record in the league, 1seed in the west, and his averages are above 31.5/9/9/50/40/76, and he starts playing real defense, without a dozen defensive possessions off every game.

He can do that. But only if he greatly decreases his alcohol consumption …. We’ll know if that happens because his facial puffiness and facial bodyfat will decrease when he does. Recall how puffy and soft Melo’s face was all those years, when he had a real chance to reach his NBA ceiling (but never did)

[GimmeThat]

He can definitely do this now.

Lively is eating good in the paint with Luka.

Sure, Lively is a very good player, but he is also a rookie and Luka is making him look like a vet.



https://www.mavs.com/luka-lively-connection/

if when the Mavs go into a zone, and the luka-lively-connection turns into the Lebron Kuzma connection and that means lively is eating good.

sure

[BarberSchool]

if when the Mavs go into a zone, and the luka-lively-connection turns into the Lebron Kuzma connection and that means lively is eating good.

sureLively is eating real good off Luka, despite not quite being the “penetration screener” that Dwight Powell is. He can catch and finish WAY better than being a later lottery pick. Dallas got over with that pick, and Tyson Chandler is doing the best job developing him in quick order. Lovely gets hella props too, as some young guys either wouldn’t be ABLE mentally or egotistically to make this much progress so soon, but lively is doing everything right so far, and eating good with plenty of two hand dunks because of it.

If you think a 19year old; fast learning, respectful of the organization rookie; is gonna be the one to push the “defensively lazy” 30ppg superstar in the back on D…. It for sure aint gonna be lively. He’s 19, and won’t get a sense or urgency to risk that sort of move until at earliest his 3rd year.

The push is either gonna have to come from Luka himself, or a combo of Dirk and Chandler together, during a time where Luka spends a lot of time around both Dirk and Tyson.

[Real Men Wear Green]

Repeating outdated tropes.

An RMWG specialty.

The idea that defense matters is kind of timeless. Really. Watch some basketball and maybe you will learn something about it. Or maybe not.

[ArbitraryWater]

The idea that defense matters is kind of timeless. Really. Watch some basketball and maybe you will learn something about it. Or maybe not.


You always have generic takes though.

[Real Men Wear Green]

You always have generic takes though.

Neither of us knows what you're talking about.

[GimmeThat]

Lively is eating real good off Luka, despite not quite being the “penetration screener” that Dwight Powell is. He can catch and finish WAY better than being a later lottery pick. Dallas got over with that pick, and Tyson Chandler is doing the best job developing him in quick order. Lovely gets hella props too, as some young guys either wouldn’t be ABLE mentally or egotistically to make this much progress so soon, but lively is doing everything right so far, and eating good with plenty of two hand dunks because of it.

If you think a 19year old; fast learning, respectful of the organization rookie; is gonna be the one to push the “defensively lazy” 30ppg superstar in the back on D…. It for sure aint gonna be lively. He’s 19, and won’t get a sense or urgency to risk that sort of move until at earliest his 3rd year.

The push is either gonna have to come from Luka himself, or a combo of Dirk and Chandler together, during a time where Luka spends a lot of time around both Dirk and Tyson.

if this team wins 45-50, puts Luka right around Wade county

[Mask the Embiid]

https://i.postimg.cc/mDWZcgKR/IMG-1075.gif


I’m afraid I’ve got some bad news luka fans….there is this other guy in the league, who is slanging wood to every center he plays. Maybe next year champ :oldlol:. When the big boys are done dominating the regular season (embiid jokic Giannis) and no longer care about the award like the OG’s (kawhi durant Lebron curry). Maybe you’ll win 1….maybe…for now aim at the little tikes awards like 1st team all nba….thats more up your alley kiddo…that’s your level………………..shai is your level…that’s who you compete with….not the big dogs

[Mask the Embiid]

You will never…ever….win a mvp as long as Joel embiid, jokic, and Giannis are in their prime in this league….ever…..you little bches

[90sgoat]

But an MVP can’t be this bad on defense.

I don’t know if it’s just his usual bad conditioning, or hiding a bad foot/bad-leg/etc …. Or what, but for at least 10-15 possessions every game, he literally does not put any effort into a defensive possession, and will just pressure the person off the 3pt line; with no effort put into actually moving his feet to recover once their dribble penetration begins. And often, no effort put into moving his feet to prevent an offensive rebound or rotate.


Yeah, it's the blatant not trying that stands out.

If you're going to be lazy on defense and take possessions off, then at least how to do so covertly. This shit with Luka where he deliberately stops playing, but still acts as if he tries, he has to stop that, everyone is seeing it and it is toxic as ****.

Go sit on the bench until you catch your breath. Or actually move your feet baseline. You know how it works. Never give up baseline, make them go into the paint. This fake "run to the 3" then let them run around you with no effort, everyone sees what's going on. Don't do that. Then give up the 3, stay back, but have a proper position on D.

It's entitled and snobby and people don't like that. They don't like it when someone acts as if the rules don't matter for them, because they're so much better.

[BarberSchool]

Yeah, it's the blatant not trying that stands out.

If you're going to be lazy on defense and take possessions off, then at least how to do so covertly. This shit with Luka where he deliberately stops playing, but still acts as if he tries, he has to stop that, everyone is seeing it and it is toxic as ****.

Go sit on the bench until you catch your breath. Or actually move your feet baseline. You know how it works. Never give up baseline, make them go into the paint. This fake "run to the 3" then let them run around you with no effort, everyone sees what's going on. Don't do that. Then give up the 3, stay back, but have a proper position on D.

It's entitled and snobby and people don't like that. They don't like it when someone acts as if the rules don't matter for them, because they're so much better.It might be a hard habit to break; since he has been enabled as the next basketball god since a young teenager. Because he was just so tremendously talented offensively. There’s always players like this, not quite with his insight and IQ, but with near this level of talent, and they get to the league and put up numbers … they are CANDIDATES … but they don’t win MVP. Unless they change their bratty defensive habits, and respect themselves and their squads enough to do their fair share on BOTH sides of the ball.

Giving 133% on the offensive end, doesn’t mean you can give 30-40% on the defensive end. Son gotta give at least 67% when it doesn’t matter, and 100% when it does.

[90sgoat]

It might be a hard habit to break; since he has been enabled as the next basketball god since a young teenager. Because he was just so tremendously talented offensively. There’s always players like this, not quite with his insight and IQ, but with near this level of talent, and they get to the league and put up numbers … they are CANDIDATES … but they don’t win MVP. Unless they change their bratty defensive habits, and respect themselves and their squads enough to do their fair share on BOTH sides of the ball.

Giving 133% on the offensive end, doesn’t mean you can give 30-40% on the defensive end. Son gotta give at least 67% when it doesn’t matter, and 100% when it does.

He doesn't even need to play full effort or even be good on defense. He just needs to buy in to a defensive system and execute enough to not seem as if he doesn't care.

A worse team than this played much superior defense with Luka when DFS was on the team and everyone bought in. Which was Kidd's first season even.

[NBAGOAT]

Luka's having best year of his career but I still dont think it's nearly enough. For one he has a capable sidekick now in kyrie yet mavs dont have an elite record/point differential.

Jokic for now will always get benefit of doubt over luka unless he declines, he hasnt.

embiid is looking even better with his passing. Philly's a top 3 team in the league even though their team around him and maxey isnt that good(comparable to dallas around luka/kyrie). the record doesnt show it right now but srs does.

Also shai has been too good on defense along with his numbers and even though chet should be considered a really good no2, dont think popular opinion is there yet. Makes sense since chet's value is mostly defense right now too. Some people also dont realize how much of a basketball terrorist giddey has been for them. A trade for an average starter and on paper they're the best team in the west.

Finally giannis has lowkey been a monster. 32ppg 66ts% are both career highs.

[tontoz]

Kleber is an important player for them and he's only played 5 games. They don't have much size.

Kyrie has missed 7 games yet they are only 1 game out of 2nd place.

Luka is certainly in contention but it will be tough to break into that top 3.

[SATAN]

Going hard with the shot jacking and ball hoggery as always...

[k0kakw0rld]

Shai Gilgeous-Alexander

[Baller234]

Call me a hater I don't give AF, he carries on a lot of possessions.

[k0kakw0rld]

Anybody can post stats up when they have the ball in their hands 90% of the time.
People are going to call me crazy but Luka is a little overrated.

[tontoz]

Anybody can post stats up when they have the ball in their hands 90% of the time.
People are going to call me crazy but Luka is a little overrated.

Luka gets double teamed twice as much as anyone in the NBA and still puts up huge numbers because of his elite skills.

[Axe]

Oh, uncle surely does know a lot about double teams. ;)

[fsvr54]

Call me a hater I don't give AF, he carries on a lot of possessions.

So does the entire league. The palm is under the ball on all these guys' dribbles

[SATAN]

Anybody can post stats up when they have the ball in their hands 90% of the time.
People are going to call me crazy but Luka is a little overrated.

I seen kids proclaiming he is the goat a year or two ago. :facepalm

[Axe]

I seen kids proclaiming he is the goat a year or two ago. :facepalm
They also said that he surpassed mj during the 2020 disney bubble