Primary ballhandlers never won title while carrying scoring load for Playoff & Finals

[3ba11]

so they need more scoring help than jumpshooters or centers that could the carry scoring load (15' Curry, 84' Bird, 09' Kobe, 94' Hakeem, 00 Shaq, 03' Duncan, MJ).

It makes sense that passers need more scoring help and this need for more help is why the best ball-dominators (Magic, Lebron, Oscar) are inferior to the best centers (Duncan, Shaq, Hakeem) and the best jumpshooters (MJ, Kobe, Bird, Curry).

Needing the least help to win titles - that's the primary criteria for top 10 rankings and since ball-dominators need the most help, they should be at the bottom of the top 10 rankings.

[CurryOverLebron]

Just try to appreciate his greatness and stop being a hater.

[Duffy Pratt]

Isaiah did it. Never is an exaggeration. Hell, so did Tony Parker.

[sdot_thadon]

Scorers never won title while carrying the playmaking load for Playoff & Finals
so they need more playmaking help than orchestrators that could the carry playmaking load (Magic, Lebron , Oscar, West, etc).

It makes sense that scorers need more help playmaking and this need for more help is why the best ball-dominators (Magic, Lebron, Oscar) are superior to the best centers (Duncan, Shaq, Hakeem) and the best jumpshooters (MJ, Kobe, Bird, Curry).

All the best scorers needed a playmaker(s) or system to help the rest of the team function. (Scottie, Toni/triangle, Darymond, Magic, Oscar, Lebron, Young Kobe/triangle, 09 lakers triangle, ainge/Johnson, cheeks, Zeke, Parker/Manu, and so on.)
Elevating your teammates to help win titles - that's the primary criteria for top 10 rankings and since scorers need the most shots, they should be at the bottom of the top 10 rankings. Works both ways.

[3ba11]

Isaiah did it. Never is an exaggeration. Hell, so did Tony Parker.


PO and Finals

they only did it for one or the other

the only guys that did it for both are the guys mentioned in the OP

[3ba11]

they need more playmaking help than orchestrators that could the carry playmaking load





The numbers must back up what you're saying:



APG

Kyrie.................... 5.7
Wade................... 5.4
Westbrook............ 8.3
Rondo.................. 7.9

Pippen.................. 5.2


^^^ Lebron clearly needed far more playmaking help than Jordan

so everyone averaged more APG than Pippen including Lebron's sidekicks, 90's sidekicks (Stockton, Payton, KJ, Hardaway), or Jordan himself - Jordan averaged more APG for the regular season, playoffs and Finals than Pippen, and this includes 6 of 9 playoff runs and 3 title runs.

[sdot_thadon]

The numbers must back up what you're saying:



APG

Kyrie.................... 5.7
Wade................... 5.4
Westbrook............ 8.3
Rondo.................. 7.9

Pippen.................. 5.2


^^^ Lebron clearly needed far more playmaking help than Jordan

so everyone averaged more APG than Pippen including Lebron's sidekicks, 90's sidekicks (Stockton, Payton, KJ, Hardaway), or Jordan himself - Jordan averaged more APG for the regular season, playoffs and Finals than Pippen, and this includes 6 of 9 playoff runs and 3 title runs.

There's no.such thing as more playmaking help than an ENTIRE offensive system meant to do the playmakkng for you......

[Duffy Pratt]

PO and Finals

they only did it for one or the other

the only guys that did it for both are the guys mentioned in the OP

Wrong again. Parker led the Spurs in scoring, and was the chief ball handler in 2014 playoffs and finals.

Thomas did it in 1990.

[Overdrive]

The numbers must back up what you're saying:



APG

Kyrie.................... 5.7
Wade................... 5.4
Westbrook............ 8.3
Rondo.................. 7.9

Pippen.................. 5.2


^^^ Lebron clearly needed far more playmaking help than Jordan

so everyone averaged more APG than Pippen including Lebron's sidekicks, 90's sidekicks (Stockton, Payton, KJ, Hardaway), or Jordan himself - Jordan averaged more APG for the regular season, playoffs and Finals than Pippen, and this includes 6 of 9 playoff runs and 3 title runs.

I thought Jordan's teams generated more assists than Lebron's? You made like 1000 threads on that fact. So Jordan needed more playmaking by his team or will you just drop one of your premiere points to call Lebron selfish to save face itt?

[sdot_thadon]

I thought Jordan's teams generated more assists than Lebron's? You made like 1000 threads on that fact. So Jordan needed more playmaking by his team or will you just drop one of your premiere points to call Lebron selfish to save face itt?

Check.

[ShawkFactory]

It’s giving Tourette’s

[And1AllDay]

Scorers never won title while carrying the playmaking load for Playoff & Finals
so they need more playmaking help than orchestrators that could the carry playmaking load (Magic, Lebron , Oscar, West, etc).

It makes sense that scorers need more help playmaking and this need for more help is why the best ball-dominators (Magic, Lebron, Oscar) are superior to the best centers (Duncan, Shaq, Hakeem) and the best jumpshooters (MJ, Kobe, Bird, Curry).

All the best scorers needed a playmaker(s) or system to help the rest of the team function. (Scottie, Toni/triangle, Darymond, Magic, Oscar, Lebron, Young Kobe/triangle, 09 lakers triangle, ainge/Johnson, cheeks, Zeke, Parker/Manu, and so on.)
Elevating your teammates to help win titles - that's the primary criteria for top 10 rankings and since scorers need the most shots, they should be at the bottom of the top 10 rankings. Works both ways.

/thread:oldlol:

[3ba11]

.
PLAYOFFS

06-14 Lebron...... 28/8/6
85-93' Jordan..... 35/7/7


^^^ So Lebron passed less than Jordan for the first half of his chips, and wasn't required to be a good defender for the other half (no all-defense in his 30's)




There's no.such thing as more playmaking help than an ENTIRE offensive system meant to do the playmakkng for you......


Kyrie, Westbrick, Rondo and Wade were better playmakers than Pippen, so that means Lebron needed more playmaking help.

Furthermore, Lebron averaged more assists than MJ specifically because he dominates the ball, which cannot fit in the triangle - Lebron isn't capable of playing in a high assist system, which is one of the main reasons he is inferior and can't win like Curry,cMJ, Bird, Duncan or Kobe, among others

Finally, Jordan passed more than Lebron for his first 3 chips - he averaged more APG in the playoffs - see stars above

So you're wrong on every level

[ShawkFactory]

.
PLAYOFFS

06-14 Lebron...... 28/8/6
85-93' Jordan..... 35/7/7


^^^ So Lebron passed less than Jordan for the first half of his chips, and wasn't required to be a good defender for the other half (no all-defense in his 30's)






Kyrie, Westbrick, Rondo and Wade were better playmakers than Pippen, so that means Lebron needed more playmaking help.

Furthermore, Lebron averaged more assists than MJ specifically because he dominates the ball, which cannot fit in the triangle - Lebron isn't capable of playing in a high assist system, which is one of the main reasons he is inferior and can't win like Curry,cMJ, Bird, Duncan or Kobe, among others

Finally, Jordan passed more than Lebron for his first 3 chips - he averaged more APG in the playoffs - see stars above

So you're wrong on every level
Pippen has a higher career playoff APG than both Kyrie and Wade.

[Duffy Pratt]

I thought Jordan's teams generated more assists than Lebron's? You made like 1000 threads on that fact. So Jordan needed more playmaking by his team or will you just drop one of your premiere points to call Lebron selfish to save face itt?

It’s par for the course. Remember, according to 3 ball, one of the reasons for Jordan’s greatness is how much he elevated his teammates and taught them how to play and win. And also, one of the reasons for his greatness is that he had the worst teammates of anyone who won a championship.

[3ba11]

I thought Jordan's teams generated more assists than Lebron's? You made like 1000 threads on that fact. So Jordan needed more playmaking by his team or will you just drop one of your premiere points to call Lebron selfish to save face itt?


Junior high teams move the ball well and have high-assist teams.

Women's teams move the ball well and have high assist teams..

And a bunch of role players like Derek Fisher can move the ball and get 2-4 assists each, so the TEAM has high-assists..

So clearly, a bunch of role players can have a high-assist teams, which means that getting some Fishers, Paxsons and Longleys isn't "needing lots of help".. Again, having a high-assist team with role players can't be considered "needing lots of help", whereas ball-dominators need great scoring help, which requires stars (lots of help)..

So that's the way to think about it - expert jumpshooters like MJ or Curry can let the ball move and have #1 offenses or high assist teams with role players, while ball-dominators (passers) like magic, lebron or cp3 need great scoring help, which requires #1 picks and franchise players like Kareem, Worthy, Kyrie, AD, or Wade - these are franchise players in their own right and this level of help is required for ball-dominators to win.. Otoh, expert jumpshooters like Curry or MJ can let the ball move and have high assist teams or #1 offenses with just role players.

[Overdrive]

junior high teams move the ball well and have high-assist teams.

Women's teams move the ball well and have high assist teams..

And a bunch of role players like derek fisher can move the ball and get 2-4 assists each, so the team has high-assists..

So clearly, a bunch of role players can have a high-assist teams, which means that getting some fishers, paxsons and longleys isn't "needing lots of help".. Again, having a high-assist team with role players can't be considered "needing lots of help", whereas ball-dominators need great scoring help, which requires stars (lots of help)..

So that's the way to think about it - expert jumpshooters like mj or curry can let the ball move and have #1 offenses or high assist teams with role players, while ball-dominators (passers) like magic, lebron or cp3 need great scoring help, which requires #1 picks and franchise players like kareem, worthy, kyrie, ad, or wade - these are franchise players in their own right and this level of help is required for ball-dominators to win.. Otoh, expert jumpshooters like curry or mj can let the ball move and have high assist teams or #1 offenses with just role players.

tl;dr

1-9

[Lebron23]

Jordan never won a championship without Pippen

[Phoenix]

You guys are really hooked into engaging this dude lol. I get it, I was at one point too, but you'd assume at some point you'd figure out what is happening and just let these topics die out, instead of engaging and allowing the threads to perpetuate. Great for ISH to generate activity, great for 3ball validating him in a way that clearly doesn't happen elsewhere, not sure what anyone else here is getting from it.

[tontoz]

3ball's fascination with MJ's load is pretty disturbing.

[And1AllDay]

Scorers never won title while carrying the playmaking load for Playoff & Finals
so they need more playmaking help than orchestrators that could the carry playmaking load (Magic, Lebron , Oscar, West, etc).

It makes sense that scorers need more help playmaking and this need for more help is why the best ball-dominators (Magic, Lebron, Oscar) are superior to the best centers (Duncan, Shaq, Hakeem) and the best jumpshooters (MJ, Kobe, Bird, Curry).

All the best scorers needed a playmaker(s) or system to help the rest of the team function. (Scottie, Toni/triangle, Darymond, Magic, Oscar, Lebron, Young Kobe/triangle, 09 lakers triangle, ainge/Johnson, cheeks, Zeke, Parker/Manu, and so on.)
Elevating your teammates to help win titles - that's the primary criteria for top 10 rankings and since scorers need the most shots, they should be at the bottom of the top 10 rankings. Works both ways.



/thread