Are we really gonna act like Jokic isn’t greater than Lebron ever was?

[Walk on Water]

Every stat, every analytic you can think of suggests Jokic is better. I’m not talking longevity. But in terms of the main stats such as points, rebounds and assists. Jokic already has more triple doubles. Jokic has dominated the last 3-4 years in a way Lebron never did. Jokic never had Wade or Davis.

There isn’t that much you can argue for Lebron. And if you’re gonna say it’s all about rings, then Mike got you beat. Lebron has nothing on Jokic, skill wise. He’s not a better individual player and he doesn’t make his teammates better like Jokic .

If you’re a Lebron fan, you should at least present an intelligent case.

[1987_Lakers]

Does this mean Jokic is also better than Curry?

[Carbine]

He's not greater because he doesn't have the accolades or mystique but as a pure player, much like Bird peak you don't get better than Jokic and very very very few ever reach that level. A handful.

Lebron and Jokic are two of them.

[SATAN]

Every stat, every analytic you can think of suggests Jokic is better. I’m not talking longevity. But in terms of the main stats such as points, rebounds and assists. Jokic already has more triple doubles. Jokic has dominated the last 3-4 years in a way Lebron never did. Jokic never had Wade or Davis.

There isn’t that much you can argue for Lebron. And if you’re gonna say it’s all about rings, then Mike got you beat. Lebron has nothing on Jokic, skill wise. He’s not a better individual player and he doesn’t make his teammates better like Jokic .

If you’re a Lebron fan, you should at least present an intelligent case.

You are extremely gay.

[Full Court]

He's more talented than Lebron ever was, sure. I wouldn't say he's greater yet. Accomplishments matter, and he hasn't accomplished enough yet to say that.

[Full Court]

To be fair, Jokic is also kind of a product of his era. If he were playing in the era of defensive beast bigs, he wouldn't shine as much as he does. We all saw what Dwight Howard was doing to him just a few years ago.

[Walk on Water]

You are extremely gay.


Too long. Didn’t read.

[John8204]

Whats the case for Jokic over Wilt Chamberlain

[Akeem34TheDream]

Jokic broke advanced stats just like how Westbrook broke triple doubles.

[LLL3]

Definitely a better peak but he needs more chips to be greater than Lebron. Just like Lebron needs more chips to be better than. Jordan

[Phoenix]

He may usher in a new breed of 'point centers' but of course his IQ and natural feel for the game doesn't grow on trees. But usually it takes one special talent as a mold and he could be it.

[sdot_thadon]

Not greater nor better , just seems like Lebron has been around so long haters lump his whole career together and have forgotten what prime Lebron was actually like. Nice try tho op.

[CurryOverLebron]

https://www.landofbasketball.com/player_comparison/lebron_james_vs_nikola_jokic.htm

https://www.landofbasketball.com/games_between/lebron_james_vs_nikola_jokic.htm

[3ba11]

If Jokic wins the title this year, he's in my top 10 all-time and ahead of Lebron because he won organically with no all-star teammates, so he won by actually learning championship chemistry and quality basketball, not the talent-based approach that Lebron uses (all-star team strategy).. Lebron never learned how to WIN (chemistry, organic) and only learned how to team-hop (talent-based winning)..

Even with Lebron's talent-based approach (all-star team strategy), the fact that he never learned great chemistry prevents these all-star teams from being anything more than perennial underdogs and losers on the championship level.. it's sad... He's 20-21 in the Finals (losing record) with 2 all-star teammates (11', 12', 13', 14', 16', 17') or a teammate that leads the playoffs scoring (20').. So he's a loser on the championship level regardless of cast because he never learned how to WIN (organic)

[ShawkFactory]

The last couple years he’s played at a level that very few ever have. Greater? Who’s to say.

Troll.

[3ba11]

The last couple years he’s played at a level that very few ever have. Greater? Who’s to say.

Troll.


* better stats

* better winning (organic, no all-star teammates)

* better stats

[ImKobe]

He's definitely on pace to eclipse Bran in terms of peak statistical play in the RS. Bran did it for 6 straight years and MJ did it for 7 straight + led the league in basically every advanced metric besides PER in 2 other seasons as well. Jokic is creeping up on that territory.

[ShawkFactory]

* better stats

* better winning (organic, no all-star teammates)

* better stats

Very cool.

[sdot_thadon]

Imagine that basically also says Jokic is greater than Mj ever was too, aa bunch of people have Mj and Lebron pretty close.

[3ba11]

Very cool.


I just go by the real stuff - Lebron could never win the way Jokic did (chemistry) or at least he never stuck around long enough to climb that learning curve.. if we put Jokic with Wade/Bosh, they would win 70 and 4-peat.. heavy favorites every time.. I base this on Jokic being a favorite with much less... There's no better logic than this that I can see, so I put Jokic over Lebron because of title quality (no all-star team strategy, aka no talent-based winning - jokic learned how to win, aka organic chemistry)

[3ba11]

a bunch of people have Mj and Lebron pretty close.


a weird subculture that gets stomped anytime a real debate occurs.. even if lebron was somehow #2, that doesn't mean it's close.. the numbers say there's a big gap, whether we're talking championship frequency, MVP frequency, Finals record, regular season records, or personal production rate (PER, PPG, raptor, etc), or help (9 to 34 deficit in top 5 draft pick teammates, or massive gap in all-star teammates)

[ImKobe]

Imagine that basically also says Jokic is greater than Mj ever was too, aa bunch of people have Mj and Lebron pretty close.

MJ had 8 seasons of leading the league in WS & BPM. Jokic ain't even halfway there (currently on pace for 4th) and Bran only had 5 seasons himself.

[3ba11]

whether we're talking massive gaps in championship frequency, MVP frequency, Finals record, regular season records, or personal production rate (PER, PPG, raptor, etc), or help (9 to 34 deficit in top 5 draft pick teammates, or massive gap in all-star teammates)


so even if lebron is #2 (he isn't), what makes it "close"?

[SouBeachTalents]

I just go by the real stuff
:lol


if we put Jokic with Wade/Bosh, they would win 70 and 4-peat
Seems reasonable.

[egokiller]

The thing of it all is that Lebron still played during a time where the league wasn’t pussified. So it’s hard to compare what Joker is doing in today’s watered down NBA vs Lebron’s early years because it’s so much easier to score these days.