Iverson: LeBron "Definitely" behind Kobe and Jordan [Archive] - Message Board Basketball Forum

Wardell Curry

12-29-2023, 07:47 AM

Iverson can't even remember what he said in the recent past https://sports.yahoo.com/allen-iverson-lebron-james-one-015245169.html

In before OP disappears and doesn't respond to this at all.

Anyways. As we all know, players are always right. Everything Allen Iverson has said about basketball is always right. I'd trust him over you. He's a player. An all time great at that. You're just some idiot on a message board.

Allen Iverson is always right 100% of the time, even when he disagrees with himself.

He actually played. You did nothing.

Everything that players say is factual and his words are literal gold. Take notes. I'd trust him any day over you!!!

ShawkFactory

12-29-2023, 12:13 PM

Iverson is the biggest Kobe homer in the world.

It is funny how all the Kobe homers in the world hate Iverson.

Go figure.

Kobe homers hate everyone to be fair. Iverson, TMac, Duncan. Anyone people so much as compared to him.

They respect Jordan and others that came before but that's it.

Baller234

12-29-2023, 01:08 PM

I'm pretty much on the same page as Iverson.

Jordan is obviously #1 to me, but I always thought that Kobe had the best case for #2. He's basically a 93% imperfect clone of Jordan.

Only other player I can toss into the convo is Bird.

Not going to lose my mind if someone tosses Lebron into the convo. I don't agree but it's not blasphemy.

BlackMamba8

12-29-2023, 02:18 PM

Where is Lebron23? hahaha ****ing DIVA!!!!!!!!!!!

GOBB

12-29-2023, 04:32 PM

“Where do you rank Lebron?”

Iverson “Behind Kobe.”

So his top 3 players all time are MJ, Kobe and Bron.

SaltyMeatballs

12-29-2023, 05:38 PM

Cool story

LeBron >>>> Kobe

And it ain't close

warriorfan

12-29-2023, 05:40 PM

The Answer.

LeGoat4Life

12-29-2023, 07:08 PM

The answer with the correct consensus answer

No educated person has Lebron ahead

iamgine

12-29-2023, 10:57 PM

Iverson is a dumbass.

Most ball players are.

ILLsmak

12-29-2023, 11:05 PM

Iverson is the biggest Kobe homer in the world.

It is funny how all the Kobe homers in the world hate Iverson.

Go figure.

If you were a true Kobe homer, you'd love Ivo. haha. It's also obvious why Ivo loves Kobe. They are similar types of players. Stat people are mostly the ones who hate Ivo. I think Ivo is pretty well regarded among basketball people. A lot of old school guys don't like him tho. Like your uncles n shit gonna be like that dude is trashhh.

-Smak

sdot_thadon

12-29-2023, 11:16 PM

Practice!?We talking bout practice??
Also said by Allen Iverson. Truth of the matter is Lebron is neck and neck witn Mj, Kobe (rest his soul) was a parade brand Jordan. No way he's above Lebron.

kawhileonard2

12-31-2023, 10:34 PM

https://www.si.com/nba/2023/12/28/allen-iverson-explains-jordan-kobe-bryant-atop-goat-list-lebron-james

He is right.

Full Court

01-01-2024, 01:47 AM

Baller234

01-01-2024, 03:30 PM

Jordan is light years ahead of Lebron to be sure. That ship sailed years ago.

It's a pretty shaky case having Kobe ahead of Lebron though, even though they're close. I think you have to give the edge to Lebron between the two of them. Lebron is around 9-10 on the all time list, while Kobe is around 12-13. Not a huge gap between them though.

If you think Jordan is the GOAT and Kobe is the closest thing we've seen to him, how can he not be #2?

He's basically Jordan just not as athletic or as disciplined. But even if he's just 93% of Jordan that's good enough for me.

ShawkFactory

01-01-2024, 03:42 PM

If you think Jordan is the GOAT and Kobe is the closest thing we've seen to him, how can he not be #2?

He's basically Jordan just not as athletic or as disciplined. But even if he's just 93% of Jordan that's good enough for me.

Because there are many different types of players. Kobe is just the closest to Jordan is style and drive.

93% of Jordan, if that's what you believe Kobe to be, isn't the second best player ever. Even if Jordan's GOATness is the consensus, some people really don't understand how close these truly great players are to each other.

3ba11

01-01-2024, 03:46 PM

I'm pretty much on the same page as Iverson.

Jordan is obviously #1 to me, but I always thought that Kobe had the best case for #2. He's basically a 93% imperfect clone of Jordan.

Only other player I can toss into the convo is Bird.

this

Kobe could've demanded to play a Luka-style and average 30/10/10.. But he wanted to win, so he opted for a less ball-dominant and more jumpshooting approach that yielded more ball movement, teammate elevation/chemistry and winning, with less help

ditto Bird and Curry.. Curry in particular won much more with much less (2 titles with low-producers and non-franchise players at sidekick like Klay or Wiggins, while Lebron's weaker brand of ball needed franchise guys at sidekick and even 3rd option)

Hey Yo

01-01-2024, 04:05 PM

this

Kobe could've demanded to play a Luka-style and average 30/10/10.. But he wanted to win, so he opted for a less ball-dominant and more jumpshooting approach that yielded more ball movement, teammate elevation/chemistry and winning, with less help

ditto Bird and Curry.. Curry in particular won much more with much less (2 titles with low-producers and non-franchise players at sidekick like Klay or Wiggins, while Lebron's weaker brand of ball needed franchise guys at sidekick and even 3rd option)

Kobe didn't want to play for the Nets and be their starting SG his rookie season, so he demanded they not draft him. Instead he chose to ride the bench his first 2 seasons for the contending Lakers knowing there was no chance of starting.

Jordan didnt make demands before the draft... he played for whomever drafted him. There's no comparison to him and Kobe.

3ba11

01-01-2024, 04:21 PM

Kobe didn't want to play for the Nets and be their starting SG his rookie season, so he demanded they not draft him. Instead he chose to ride the bench his first 2 seasons for the contending Lakers knowing there was no chance of starting.

Jordan didnt make demands before the draft... he played for whomever drafted him. There's no comparison to him and Kobe.

Jordan was far superior to Kobe - I think the best versions of MJ are 87' Jordan because he was so athletic it was insane.. Then 90' jordan because his jumper became all-time level by adding the 3ball - he had almost no games of 3+ attempts before 1990 when he had a ton.. Then 97' Jordan had become the greatest 2-point shooter in history and had supreme handle that year remarkably - I recommend the recent GOAT SZN upload of jordan's 97' season.. every other year was great but he didn't break new ground like the aforementioned years except in 91' with the muscle add-on (which reduced his need for jumper and he stopped shooting 3's again)

I used to think that Jamal Crawford was exaggerating when he said that MJ will be goat for 1000 years, but now I agree.. I think Crawford said a million years actually, which I still don't agree with that.

Baller234

01-01-2024, 04:42 PM

Because there are many different types of players. Kobe is just the closest to Jordan is style and drive.

93% of Jordan, if that's what you believe Kobe to be, isn't the second best player ever. Even if Jordan's GOATness is the consensus, some people really don't understand how close these truly great players are to each other.

I acknowledge that we're just splitting hairs at the end of the day. When comparing all time GOATS the difference between #2 on the list and #10 on the list is mostly negligible or minimal at best.

The reason I have MJ and Kobe above everyone else is because ultimately what they bring to the table cannot be replaced by any other star in history. When it comes to everyone else I can fill out the lineup with people who can do what they do well. Can't say that about Jordan or Kobe.

For example Lebron can do a lot of things really well. He can score, he can pass, he can rebound, he can defend... he is a jack of all trades. But if I'm building a team I can fill out my lineup with other all time greats who can do those things as well. If I need scoring I can just choose Durant, if I need passing I can choose Magic, if I need defense I can choose Hakeem, etc... I can build an amazing team without having to choose Lebron.

A team that has a core of Magic-Durant-Hakeem can compete with ANY team you build around Lebron.

Jordan and Kobe can't pass like Lebron and don't have his vision but if I'm drafting an all time fantasy team I can just pair them with other elite playmakers. Give THOSE guys Magic and Hakeen and I like their odds over any team you can put up against them. Because in those guys you have someone who can just totally dominate a game and can't be stopped offensively.

Any team with Jordan or Kobe in the lineup is at a HUGE advantage. It's like having a joker card.

Jasper

01-02-2024, 11:51 AM

https://www.si.com/nba/2023/12/28/allen-iverson-explains-jordan-kobe-bryant-atop-goat-list-lebron-james

I agree... Kobe top 10 (8-9)
Lebron 10th

FKAri

01-03-2024, 10:47 AM

I acknowledge that we're just splitting hairs at the end of the day. When comparing all time GOATS the difference between #2 on the list and #10 on the list is mostly negligible or minimal at best.

The reason I have MJ and Kobe above everyone else is because ultimately what they bring to the table cannot be replaced by any other star in history. When it comes to everyone else I can fill out the lineup with people who can do what they do well. Can't say that about Jordan or Kobe.

For example Lebron can do a lot of things really well. He can score, he can pass, he can rebound, he can defend... he is a jack of all trades. But if I'm building a team I can fill out my lineup with other all time greats who can do those things as well. If I need scoring I can just choose Durant, if I need passing I can choose Magic, if I need defense I can choose Hakeem, etc... I can build an amazing team without having to choose Lebron.

A team that has a core of Magic-Durant-Hakeem can compete with ANY team you build around Lebron.

Jordan and Kobe can't pass like Lebron and don't have his vision but if I'm drafting an all time fantasy team I can just pair them with other elite playmakers. Give THOSE guys Magic and Hakeen and I like their odds over any team you can put up against them. Because in those guys you have someone who can just totally dominate a game and can't be stopped offensively.

Any team with Jordan or Kobe in the lineup is at a HUGE advantage. It's like having a joker card.

If you are comparing in absolute ability terms, there is no Universe where Magic is above LeBron especially in the modern NBA.

SouBeachTalents

01-03-2024, 11:04 AM

I acknowledge that we're just splitting hairs at the end of the day. When comparing all time GOATS the difference between #2 on the list and #10 on the list is mostly negligible or minimal at best.

The reason I have MJ and Kobe above everyone else is because ultimately what they bring to the table cannot be replaced by any other star in history. When it comes to everyone else I can fill out the lineup with people who can do what they do well. Can't say that about Jordan or Kobe.

For example Lebron can do a lot of things really well. He can score, he can pass, he can rebound, he can defend... he is a jack of all trades. But if I'm building a team I can fill out my lineup with other all time greats who can do those things as well. If I need scoring I can just choose Durant, if I need passing I can choose Magic, if I need defense I can choose Hakeem, etc... I can build an amazing team without having to choose Lebron.

A team that has a core of Magic-Durant-Hakeem can compete with ANY team you build around Lebron.

Jordan and Kobe can't pass like Lebron and don't have his vision but if I'm drafting an all time fantasy team I can just pair them with other elite playmakers. Give THOSE guys Magic and Hakeen and I like their odds over any team you can put up against them. Because in those guys you have someone who can just totally dominate a game and can't be stopped offensively.

Any team with Jordan or Kobe in the lineup is at a HUGE advantage. It's like having a joker card.
First of all, I do not think Jordan or Kobe would mesh particularly well with Magic, the talent would still obviously be overwhelming, but I do not think they'd be an ideal fit.

Secondly, I truly don't get the infatuation some posters have about Kobe, you really play it off like he's a top 2 GOAT with Jordan, and I just could not disagree with you more :lol

How you think Kobe is more irreplaceable, or would give your all-time team a bigger advantage than LeBron, Kareem, Hakeem, Shaq, Jokic, Curry, Bird etc. is beyond me. Even based on perimeter players from his era, I think Kawhi, KD & Wade would be better suited for an all-time team than Kobe would.

Baller234

01-03-2024, 11:51 PM

If you are comparing in absolute ability terms, there is no Universe where Magic is above LeBron especially in the modern NBA.

I didn't say I would take Magic over Lebron. I think there's a legit case for it, but that's not what I was saying at all. Kind of weird that's what you took away from my post.

I was saying that if I'm building an all time team and every player in history is available, and I already have Jordan or Kobe, I don't need Lebron's services. I can fill out that spot with someone like Magic and not miss a beat.

You can't replace Jordan or Kobe with anyone in history, especially Jordan. Those two mastered the art of ISO one on one ball. That and they won't stop attacking until you're dead. What they bring to a team both in terms and tangibles and intangibles can't be duplicated.

SATAN

01-03-2024, 11:54 PM

The fgt has posted on multiple accounts within the last hour

Baller234

01-04-2024, 12:06 AM

First of all, I do not think Jordan or Kobe would mesh particularly well with Magic, the talent would still obviously be overwhelming, but I do not think they'd be an ideal fit.

Secondly, I truly don't get the infatuation some posters have about Kobe, you really play it off like he's a top 2 GOAT with Jordan, and I just could not disagree with you more :lol

How you think Kobe is more irreplaceable, or would give your all-time team a bigger advantage than LeBron, Kareem, Hakeem, Shaq, Jokic, Curry, Bird etc. is beyond me. Even based on perimeter players from his era, I think Kawhi, KD & Wade would be better suited for an all-time team than Kobe would.

You don't think Jordan or Kobe could play with Magic? Are you serious? Lol, who couldn't play with Magic? If Jordan could play with Pippen, he could play with Magic.

And yes I would pick Kobe.

Shaq? Lol, he's a liability at the end of the game. Can't execute, can't hit free throws.

Curry? We've seen the guy totally taken out of games before. There are games where he can't even get open. Gets totally LOCKED UP.

Kareem? Guy wasn't a leader or as dedicated to winning. Magic saved his career and was the heart and soul of the team.

Lebron? Doesn't have a go-to offensive move. Can't execute consistently in the post or in the mid range.

Jokic? Hasn't proven it enough. Can't take over the game scoring wise and get a basket on command. Needed to lean on Murray in a lot of key stretches.

What's Kobe's weakness by comparison? His ego? Sorry but I don't think Kobe's ego is as much of a liability. I'll gamble on his ego if it means having a guy who could score on command no matter what the situation is and grab the bull by the horns. Yea he might shoot you out of the game occasionally but none of those guys have flawless records. I'll gamble on Kobe. Also he's a guy who can seal the deal from the free throw line.

Bird and maybe even Hakeem are the only two guys from that group I would consider putting in the same conversation. Because at their best they both showed godly skill and couldn't be stopped.

FKAri

01-04-2024, 02:24 PM

I didn't say I would take Magic over Lebron. I think there's a legit case for it, but that's not what I was saying at all. Kind of weird that's what you took away from my post.

I was saying that if I'm building an all time team and every player in history is available, and I already have Jordan or Kobe, I don't need Lebron's services. I can fill out that spot with someone like Magic and not miss a beat.

You can't replace Jordan or Kobe with anyone in history, especially Jordan. Those two mastered the art of ISO one on one ball. That and they won't stop attacking until you're dead. What they bring to a team both in terms and tangibles and intangibles can't be duplicated.

Kobe, Magic and Bron would be great but I'd prefer something like this if I'm starting with MJ:

Excluding the center I'd go with: Ray, MJ, Kawhi, KG.

They can all defend their position as well as switch, they can all shoot, and they can all create. I don't need to worry about Kobe's ego and him getting restless. I don't need to worry about Magic trying to guard someone on an island and bricking open shots. I don't need to worry about LeBron standing not knowing what to do when the ball's out of his hands.

Baller234

01-04-2024, 04:10 PM

Kobe, Magic and Bron would be great but I'd prefer something like this if I'm starting with MJ:

Excluding the center I'd go with: Ray, MJ, Kawhi, KG.

They can all defend their position as well as switch, they can all shoot, and they can all create. I don't need to worry about Kobe's ego and him getting restless. I don't need to worry about Magic trying to guard someone on an island and bricking open shots. I don't need to worry about LeBron standing not knowing what to do when the ball's out of his hands.

But this is why MJ and Kobe are the GOATS to me. If you wanna leave Kobe out of then fine, for the moment we can just talk about MJ since he had none of Kobe's weaknesses.

When it comes every other great, their skillset can be replaced. Jordan's can't. Nobody in history can duplicate what he brought to the table, which was his ungodly ability to put the ball in the hoop.

warriorfan

01-04-2024, 10:06 PM

You don't think Jordan or Kobe could play with Magic? Are you serious? Lol, who couldn't play with Magic? If Jordan could play with Pippen, he could play with Magic.

And yes I would pick Kobe.

Shaq? Lol, he's a liability at the end of the game. Can't execute, can't hit free throws.

Curry? We've seen the guy totally taken out of games before. There are games where he can't even get open. Gets totally LOCKED UP.

Kareem? Guy wasn't a leader or as dedicated to winning. Magic saved his career and was the heart and soul of the team.

Lebron? Doesn't have a go-to offensive move. Can't execute consistently in the post or in the mid range.

Jokic? Hasn't proven it enough. Can't take over the game scoring wise and get a basket on command. Needed to lean on Murray in a lot of key stretches.

What's Kobe's weakness by comparison? His ego? Sorry but I don't think Kobe's ego is as much of a liability. I'll gamble on his ego if it means having a guy who could score on command no matter what the situation is and grab the bull by the horns. Yea he might shoot you out of the game occasionally but none of those guys have flawless records. I'll gamble on Kobe. Also he's a guy who can seal the deal from the free throw line.

Bird and maybe even Hakeem are the only two guys from that group I would consider putting in the same conversation. Because at their best they both showed godly skill and couldn't be stopped.

When has Curry gotten completed locked up without double teams 30 feet from the basket while allowing a lot of hands/grabbing on the perimeter? Even then I would be careful using the term completely locked up

I mean you can shut down his production to a level but you are leaving the rest of your 3 defenders to cover 4.

I don’t know how many open gym jumpers/layups you would want to give up to a team comprised of the best players of all time.

Wouldn’t be a great game plan

warriorfan

01-04-2024, 10:15 PM

There has never been a player in the history of the game that distorts defenses to the extent of Steph Curry.

Every Finals they are forced to start double teaming him at half court. The Raptors literally rolled out a box and 1 defense vs him.

And I know it’s college but still

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v7QsXUnq57U

They literally doubled curry off the ball for the entire game. That was the best they could come up with. :roll:

WhiteKyrie

01-04-2024, 10:48 PM

You don't think Jordan or Kobe could play with Magic? Are you serious? Lol, who couldn't play with Magic? If Jordan could play with Pippen, he could play with Magic.

And yes I would pick Kobe.

Shaq? Lol, he's a liability at the end of the game. Can't execute, can't hit free throws.

Curry? We've seen the guy totally taken out of games before. There are games where he can't even get open. Gets totally LOCKED UP.

Kareem? Guy wasn't a leader or as dedicated to winning. Magic saved his career and was the heart and soul of the team.

Lebron? Doesn't have a go-to offensive move. Can't execute consistently in the post or in the mid range.

Jokic? Hasn't proven it enough. Can't take over the game scoring wise and get a basket on command. Needed to lean on Murray in a lot of key stretches.

What's Kobe's weakness by comparison? His ego? Sorry but I don't think Kobe's ego is as much of a liability. I'll gamble on his ego if it means having a guy who could score on command no matter what the situation is and grab the bull by the horns. Yea he might shoot you out of the game occasionally but none of those guys have flawless records. I'll gamble on Kobe. Also he's a guy who can seal the deal from the free throw line.

Bird and maybe even Hakeem are the only two guys from that group I would consider putting in the same conversation. Because at their best they both showed godly skill and couldn't be stopped.

SouthBeachTalents doesn’t know shit about ball bro, are you kidding me?

warriorfan

01-04-2024, 10:50 PM

SouthBeachTalents doesn’t know shit about ball bro, are you kidding me?

lmaoo

Axe

01-04-2024, 10:56 PM

SouthBeachTalents doesn’t know shit about ball bro, are you kidding me?
What more a whiny ass casual like you? :oldlol:

Full Court

01-05-2024, 12:03 AM

Baller234

01-05-2024, 12:04 PM

When has Curry gotten completed locked up without double teams 30 feet from the basket while allowing a lot of hands/grabbing on the perimeter? Even then I would be careful using the term completely locked up

I mean you can shut down his production to a level but you are leaving the rest of your 3 defenders to cover 4.

I don’t know how many open gym jumpers/layups you would want to give up to a team comprised of the best players of all time.

Wouldn’t be a great game plan

I'm just saying I've seen Curry taken out of the moment before. Either because he couldn't get open or he couldn't get his shot off. When it comes to Kobe, due to his mastery of ISO one on one, all you have to do is give him the ball and he's able to take care of the rest.

If Kobe got a chance to play in this modern era, with this spacing, with these rules and with lethal sharpshooters in every direction at all times... he would be wayyy hard to guard than Curry. You know how Curry is going to beat you. You have no idea what's coming with Kobe.

The closest thing we've seen to Kobe in the modern era is peak Kawhi. I'm aware that the Raptors wouldn't have won if the Warriors were full strength, but look at how good that team was with just Kawhi and a bunch of mid level role players.

Kobe was better and more skilled than Kawhi.