I feel like we need to come to a decision on what “Role player” means.

[Kblaze8855]

Not that we would all agree to stick to it. But the number of people I’m seeing called role players is insane.

I can show you topics and posts with serious people saying Wilt Chamberlain(lakers version…), Klay and Draymond, Kobe before 01, Pippen(Bulls not washed), Bosh(Heat), Tim Duncan after 2007 and “The last few years”(topic from 2014). Rodman at every stage of his career. Rondo. I remember hearing Amare was a role player because he only role was scoring what Nash created. Just yesterday a post claimed Jaylen Brown is a role player.

Point is…it’s pretty much an all encompassing term used to insult. Usually to prop up a teammate.

My question is this….


If a guy like Jaylen Brown is a role player what is PJ Tucker?

Are we just out on the term “star”? Can a guy just be a regular ol star anymore and not a superstar?

What drops someone from star to role player? A lot of them are hall of famers.

It’s generally been being a poor scorer. But its kinda expanded.

Im not sure it really applies to almost anyone we regularly talk about. Even Rudy Gobert or Ben Simmons(when he still existed) limited scoring types aren’t role players relative to the hundreds of players with much lesser responsibilities.

Is the term just a catch all insult to prop up the teams better players at this point or do you think of the level of player before you use it?

If some of these guys qualify…what are the hundreds of lesser guys?

Is the league straight scrubs…then like 20-30 role players…then the GOATs? I can’t even say “Then hall of famers” because like a quarter of the people called role players mockingly are going to the hall of fame.

What do you consider a role player? Who is the best player who qualifies to you?

[Xiao Yao You]

Not that we would all agree to stick to it. But the number of people I’m seeing called role players is insane.

I can show you topics and posts with serious people saying Wilt Chamberlain(lakers version…), Klay and Draymond, Kobe before 01, Pippen(Bulls not washed), Bosh(Heat), Tim Duncan after 2007 and “The last few years”(topic from 2014). Rodman at every stage of his career. Rondo. I remember hearing Amare was a role player because he only role was scoring what Nash created. Just yesterday a post claimed Jaylen Brown is a role player.

Point is…it’s pretty much an all encompassing term used to insult. Usually to prop up a teammate.

My question is this….


If a guy like Jaylen Brown is a role player what is PJ Tucker?

Are we just out on the term “star”? Can a guy just be a regular ol star anymore and not a superstar?

What drops someone from star to role player? A lot of them are hall of famers.

It’s generally been being a poor scorer. But its kinda expanded.

Im not sure it really applies to almost anyone we regularly talk about. Even Rudy Gobert or Ben Simmons(when he still existed) limited scoring types aren’t role players relative to the hundreds of players with much lesser responsibilities.

Is the term just a catch all insult to prop up the teams better players at this point or do you think of the level of player before you use it?

If some of these guys qualify…what are the hundreds of lesser guys?

Is the league straight scrubs…then like 20-30 role players…then the GOATs? I can’t even say “Then hall of famers” because like a quarter of the people called role players mockingly are going to the hall of fame.

What do you consider a role player? Who is the best player who qualifies to you?

ISH is the only place I've heard of a multiple all NBA/DPOTY called a role player :coleman:

[Real Men Wear Green]

I saw that post yesterday. JB gets some weird hate. He's a "roleplayer" that averages almost as many shots as the team star. A good defender and solid rebounder. In a sense everyone is a roleplayer because of you apply the term to a guy that could average 27 points out no longer means anything.

[Kblaze8855]

ISH is the only place I've heard of a multiple all NBA/DPOTY called a role player :coleman:


Modern center rankings are largely responsible for that. Deandre Jordan was all nba first team and he could be called a role player in any time. But it does raise the same questions. What are the other guys.

But people have always disrespected accolades they don’t agree with. Like you always saying Eaton sucked despite being an all star and two time DPOY. You don’t agree so you say he was literally bad. You’re actually one of the more extreme types when it comes to acting like people you don’t care for are literally bad at basketball.

You don’t have much of a middle ground.

[Kblaze8855]

I saw that post yesterday. JB gets some weird hate. He's a "roleplayer" that averages almost as many shots as the team star. A good defender and solid rebounder. In a sense everyone is a roleplayer because of you apply the term to a guy that could average 27 points out no longer means anything.

Yea that was largely the breaking point for me asking this. But I have seen worse. Wilt was the finals mvp after a 15/19 season and was called a role player because he didn’t choose to shoot much. Even when he proved he could score 60 whenever he wanted when he was on the lakers. SI had an article on how he’d lost a step and he had 60 and 66 points to prove he was just doing what was best for the team.

50 years later?

He was a role player.

[Xiao Yao You]

Modern center rankings are largely responsible for that. Deandre Jordan was all nba first team and he could be called a role player in any time. But it does raise the same questions. What are the other guys.

But people have always disrespected accolades they don’t agree with. Like you always saying Eaton sucked despite being an all star and two time DPOY. You don’t agree so you say he was literally bad. You’re actually one of the more extreme types when it comes to acting like people you don’t care for are literally bad at basketball.

You don’t have much of a middle ground.

you watch Eaton play and tell me he wasn't bad. Being big and being able to hold your arms over your head doesn't make you a basketball player. Same with The Bum. Being able to dribble and throw up prayers while everyone else stands around watching you doesn't make you good at basketball. If you think they were/are good I don't know what to tell you. I can't imagine watching those guys play and thinking they didn't suck. Jordan was a role player on the loaded Clippers. Gobert was the best player on a bad team. And I do have lots of middle ground. I like lots of guys that were role players. See who is my avatar. Love the guy. Role player

[Kblaze8855]

Do you really Not see the weirdness with you complaining about accolades like all nba(all third and one second) and DPOY not being respected while also saying, the guy who was all NBA First team in the same league and a two time dpoy are bad and or role players?

I’m not saying you shouldn’t think Rudy is good. He obviously is. But Your reasoning is selective as ****.

I’ve seen Eaton play. He didn’t do many things but he was near goat tier at what he did do. If you can have 10-12 points with 10-15 rebounds and block 10+ shots you aren’t bad. Youre limited. A specialist. But not bad.

He’d be near useless today but he wasn’t when teams would just keep going inside no matter how it was going. You block like 9 shots and change 10 more you aren’t just…bad.

Too many people can neither do that….or the other things he didn’t do. There were lots of stiffs back then. He was a stiff who could literally block 15 shots. If he sucked what were the stiffs who didn’t do that either?

Its the same problem in all these cases.

You have to ask…how many nba players are bad if a DPOY can be bad?

[Kblaze8855]

Deandre Jordan was all nba first team(3 all nba teams in total), all d first team a couple times, an all star, is the nbas all time leader in shooting percentage, all time leader in efg% and second all time in true shooting…is seventh all time in offensive rating. Led the league in rebounds multiple years while leading in shooting 5 years in a row. He has the 4h highest career defensive rating among active players. His rebound percentage is 6th all time.

I don’t much care about any of those numbers but you post them all the time….

But Deandre was a role player? You can co-sign that?

[Xiao Yao You]

Do you really Not see the weirdness with you complaining about accolades like all nba(all third and one second) and DPOY not being respected while also saying, the guy who was all NBA First team in the same league and a two time dpoy are bad and or role players?

I’m not saying you shouldn’t think Rudy is good. He obviously is. But Your reasoning is selective as ****.

I’ve seen Eaton play. He didn’t do many things but he was near goat tier at what he did do. If you can have 10-12 points with 10-15 rebounds and block 10+ shots you aren’t bad. Youre limited. A specialist. But not bad.

He’d be near useless today but he wasn’t when teams would just keep going inside no matter how it was going. You block like 9 shots and change 10 more you aren’t just…bad.

Too many people can neither do that….or the other things he didn’t do. There were lots of stiffs back then. He was a stiff who could literally block 15 shots. If he sucked what were the stiffs who didn’t do that either?

Its the same problem in all these cases.

You have to ask…how many nba players are bad if a DPOY can be bad?

The most Eaton ever averaged was 9.7 pts. That was in 34 min a game on 45% shooting on dunks and short hooks. I seem to remember them having to change the rules because the Jazz would have him come just over the half court line on offense and play 4 on 5 so he could get back and hold his arms up in the air on D. Looking at the numbers that must've been about 84-85? A big reason their best years were after he retired is because they weren't playing shorthanded on offense anymore and they were a lot more versatile defensively. He averaged double figures in boards twice. 6(46%) and 8 over 29 min for his career. He got lots of blocks but that is more of a statement of the era in which he played. He had a hard time even keeping track of where the ball was. He'd turn around with his arms in the air and get a block clueless as to where the ball even was. I'll take the stiffs who could do something besides hold their arms in the air anyday. I've seen plenty of bad players. He's one of the worst because he started and played a huge role. If he'd been at the end of the bench like Boban or Chuck Nevitt we wouldn't be talking about the stiff

[Xiao Yao You]

Deandre Jordan was all nba first team(3 all nba teams in total), all d first team a couple times, an all star, is the nbas all time leader in shooting percentage, all time leader in efg% and second all time in true shooting…is seventh all time in offensive rating. Led the league in rebounds multiple years while leading in shooting 5 years in a row. He has the 4h highest career defensive rating among active players. His rebound percentage is 6th all time.

I don’t much care about any of those numbers but you post them all the time….

But Deandre was a role player? You can co-sign that?

Were the Clippers good because of him or because of one of the all time greats Chris Paul? Did the Clippers suck when Jordan was off the floor? The Jazz were good because of Gobert. They sucked when he wasn't on the floor. You can compare him and Capela and whomever else all you want but it's just not the same no matter how much you want to press the idiocy.

[Kblaze8855]

You use every single one of those accomplishments and metrics as evidence of one persons greatness. Not some. All. But with other players they don’t apply unless you decide they do.

If the accomplishments and metrics don’t matter….stop posting them as evidence your claims are true.

You get on here and post reams of data almost all of which suggest guys like Deandre must also be stars. If all nba and all these efficiency stats all D teams rebound rates and so on don’t matter kindly stop posting them as if they make your assertions true.

I would say they aren’t proof of abstract greatness but they suggest higher performance than normal players can be expected to match.

[Jasper]

Not that we would all agree to stick to it. But the number of people I’m seeing called role players is insane.

I can show you topics and posts with serious people saying Wilt Chamberlain(lakers version…), Klay and Draymond, Kobe before 01, Pippen(Bulls not washed), Bosh(Heat), Tim Duncan after 2007 and “The last few years”(topic from 2014). Rodman at every stage of his career. Rondo. I remember hearing Amare was a role player because he only role was scoring what Nash created. Just yesterday a post claimed Jaylen Brown is a role player.

Point is…it’s pretty much an all encompassing term used to insult. Usually to prop up a teammate.

My question is this….


If a guy like Jaylen Brown is a role player what is PJ Tucker?

Are we just out on the term “star”? Can a guy just be a regular ol star anymore and not a superstar?

What drops someone from star to role player? A lot of them are hall of famers.

It’s generally been being a poor scorer. But its kinda expanded.

Im not sure it really applies to almost anyone we regularly talk about. Even Rudy Gobert or Ben Simmons(when he still existed) limited scoring types aren’t role players relative to the hundreds of players with much lesser responsibilities.

Is the term just a catch all insult to prop up the teams better players at this point or do you think of the level of player before you use it?

If some of these guys qualify…what are the hundreds of lesser guys?

Is the league straight scrubs…then like 20-30 role players…then the GOATs? I can’t even say “Then hall of famers” because like a quarter of the people called role players mockingly are going to the hall of fame.

What do you consider a role player? Who is the best player who qualifies to you?

Jaylon Brown is the leader of the Celtics... even though everyone thinks chuckster tatum is.

A role player is Bobby Portis.
He comes in generates hustle, boards, points and defense .

[Axe]

ISH is the only place I've heard of a multiple all NBA/DPOTY called a role player :coleman:
That's a problem with a big guy that's a bit pedestrian when it comes to scoring on a regular basis.

[Xiao Yao You]

That's a problem with a big guy that's a bit pedestrian when it comes to scoring on a regular basis.

you're the only one with the problem of thinking scoring is the only measurement of a players worthiness :lol

[Axe]

Idk bub. But there are probably other reasons why both embiid and joker have become the last two season mvps nowadays. :confusedshrug:

[90sgoat]

I feel like Jaylen Brown is a role player and is better for it.

He is the Klay to Curry, but it's Tatum that is lacking and can't be Curry.

I have no doubt Brown could be a first option, just as much as someone like Mitchell, but a team wouldn't be better for it.

[tpols]

Someone who never made All Star or All NBA.

Which makes me think... Lamar Odom was better than a lot of All Stars yet never made a team.

Role player is like Derek Fisher or something.

[Axe]

You know this could be funny. But wembanyama feels like a role player next to holmgren in terms of impact with their respective teams. Then again, okc has sga too.

[Xiao Yao You]

a lot of room between MVP and role player :facepalm

[Axe]

12.9 :roll:

[Xiao Yao You]

24-7 :facepalm

[tontoz]

My idea of role players are guys like Aaron Gordon, KCP, Monk, PJ Tucker....good players that compliment stars well.

If a guy an All Star he isn't a role player.

[Axe]

24-7 :facepalm
Playing alongside edwards surely makes him feel like the sidekick instead of the other way around. To his credit, he seems to effectively complement the latter tho. :lebronamazed:

[Xiao Yao You]

Playing alongside edwards surely makes him feel like the sidekick instead of the other way around. To his credit, he seems to effectively complement the latter tho. :lebronamazed:

won with or without Edwards which is typical of Gobert

[Axe]

Come back to me once he starts getting past the second round of the postseason. Until then...

[L.Kizzle]

Ben Wallace is not a role player
Dennis Rodman is a role player

[highwhey]

Who called Amar'e a role player? Lmk asap so i can ban them rn.

[iamgine]

Essentially everyone is a role player. Even the stars but we just don't say the 'role player' part for stars. So when we say role players I think we just mean the guys who are not the best player or 2nd best player in a team.

Like Miami Bosh. Guy was a star in Toronto. Role player in Miami.

[Full Court]

Not that we would all agree to stick to it. But the number of people I’m seeing called role players is insane.

I can show you topics and posts with serious people saying Wilt Chamberlain(lakers version…), Klay and Draymond, Kobe before 01, Pippen(Bulls not washed), Bosh(Heat), Tim Duncan after 2007 and “The last few years”(topic from 2014). Rodman at every stage of his career. Rondo. I remember hearing Amare was a role player because he only role was scoring what Nash created. Just yesterday a post claimed Jaylen Brown is a role player.

Point is…it’s pretty much an all encompassing term used to insult. Usually to prop up a teammate.

My question is this….


If a guy like Jaylen Brown is a role player what is PJ Tucker?

Are we just out on the term “star”? Can a guy just be a regular ol star anymore and not a superstar?

What drops someone from star to role player? A lot of them are hall of famers.

It’s generally been being a poor scorer. But its kinda expanded.

Im not sure it really applies to almost anyone we regularly talk about. Even Rudy Gobert or Ben Simmons(when he still existed) limited scoring types aren’t role players relative to the hundreds of players with much lesser responsibilities.

Is the term just a catch all insult to prop up the teams better players at this point or do you think of the level of player before you use it?

If some of these guys qualify…what are the hundreds of lesser guys?

Is the league straight scrubs…then like 20-30 role players…then the GOATs? I can’t even say “Then hall of famers” because like a quarter of the people called role players mockingly are going to the hall of fame.

What do you consider a role player? Who is the best player who qualifies to you?

Why don't you consider Rodman to be a role player? To me, he's the very definition of one. He's not going to be the team's first option or main star or anything like that. He's there to get rebounds and be a pain on defense.

Just because someone's a role player doesn't mean they're not all star level or a HOFer. At least in my opinion.

[warriorfan]

Role Player is a funny term because of course all players are playing a certain role.

How the term gets used though it usually is referring to the 4th or 5h best players on the team and down the line. They aren’t the superstars or even one of the star second or thirst best players. But they are still very important to the team.

[Kblaze8855]

Why don't you consider Rodman to be a role player? To me, he's the very definition of one. He's not going to be the team's first option or main star or anything like that. He's there to get rebounds and be a pain on defense.

Just because someone's a role player doesn't mean they're not all star level or a HOFer. At least in my opinion.

Many players have not been top 3 scorers on their team and been MVP caliber. At least 2 have won as the 5th scorer. Many have finished highly. Being a role player to me is about how much you contribute and how key that contribution is not what specifically you’re being asked to do.

If you’re someone the team might not even need to play in a lot of situations? Youre likely a role player. If your contribution is key and the game plan has to bend around you being there instead of just adjusting by removing you? When what you do is at such a level it’s a necessary component of the team?

Its harder to call that person a role player.

It isn’t precisely that simple because nothing is but I’d say it’s not bad to start there. If what you provide is key…not a luxury…required to accomplish the goals your team has?

Some of those guys might play a little more or less vs some matchups or if banged up or aging but what they provide is ultimately gonna be called on because it’s required?

Hard to call them role players in serious fashion.

The gray area is with guys who are key to their team…but might not be of much use elsewhere. Maybe because of a lack of depth or having an unusual role due to blended positions and overlapping responsibilities.

You can always find an exception. I’d say we can start by assuming people in the hall of fame fall on the right side of it.

[Baller234]

A role player is anyone who's expendable or easily replaceable. As a role player your only job is to step up when the moment calls.

Steve Kerr was a great shooter, but he was a role player. He was never part of the engine that made his team go. There were a lot of great shooters that could have taken his place.

Dennis Rodman was absolutely not a role player. Guy was an elite defensive player and an elite rebounder. He also gave them a huge edge in physicality and toughness. Essential not only to the defense but also essential to the team's identity. A legit star player and not a guy you could replace with just anybody.

If I could replace your job on the team by picking a name out of a hat, that means you're a role player.

[ILLsmak]

If you think of the way a play is designed, there is action. Role players would be those who are outlets in the play.

Even like Boston or Cleveland Shaq wasn't a role player because they gave him good touches and the offense took him into account. His role was like... be 39 year old Shaq haha.

Then there are guys who you might bring off the bench like Barbosa or whatever who are spark plugs. They are different sorts of role players. JR Smith etc. They are more valuable because they carry your second unit. The best of those would be someone who could play that role AND become a regular role player w/ the starters, or be able to flex back and forth.

You can be set up as a role player. Like if you have a certain amount of stars, someone has to play roles. Some players can't play roles and thus they are hard to set up with other stars. They would have to be relegated to 6th man spark plug.

-Smak

[ILLsmak]

A role player is anyone who's expendable or easily replaceable. As a role player your only job is to step up when the moment calls.

Steve Kerr was a great shooter, but he was a role player. He was never part of the engine that made his team go. There were a lot of great shooters that could have taken his place.

Dennis Rodman was absolutely not a role player. Guy was an elite defensive player and an elite rebounder. He also gave them a huge edge in physicality and toughness. Essential not only to the defense but also essential to the team's identity. A legit star player and not a guy you could replace with just anybody.

If I could replace your job on the team by picking a name out of a hat, that means you're a role player.

You can be an elite role player imo. If Steve Kerr was good on defense and could pass, he would have been an elite role player. But he was as good of a shooter as you could want. He just had weaknesses. Rodman couldn't score that well, but what else he did made him worthwhile. I still think, as I said, in today's game Rodman could have pushed the break a lil like Dray does on GSW. Just get the ball and get it up. But the offense isn't taking him into account at all. He's not getting plays called for him. He's playing a role. He's just that good at it. He's a dirty work guy. The reason Dray isn't a role player is because he can be gsw ball handler, thus he is definitely taken into account by the offense. If Rodman did that, too, then he wouldn't have been a role player, but since he just usually gave it up and went to lurk somewhere on O, he was.

-Smak

[Baller234]

You can be an elite role player imo. If Steve Kerr was good on defense and could pass, he would have been an elite role player. But he was as good of a shooter as you could want. He just had weaknesses. Rodman couldn't score that well, but what else he did made him worthwhile. I still think, as I said, in today's game Rodman could have pushed the break a lil like Dray does on GSW. Just get the ball and get it up. But the offense isn't taking him into account at all. He's not getting plays called for him. He's playing a role. He's just that good at it. He's a dirty work guy. The reason Dray isn't a role player is because he can be gsw ball handler, thus he is definitely taken into account by the offense. If Rodman did that, too, then he wouldn't have been a role player, but since he just usually gave it up and went to lurk somewhere on O, he was.

-Smak

Rodman was a non-factor offensively but he was still a star player and still essential to the team based on what he brought defensively. The Bulls already had plenty of scoring so they didn't need to rely on him for that.

In Last Dance when Pippen was hurt to start the 97-98 season, Jordan even says he looked to Dennis as the #2 guy on the team. That's not something you say about a role player. He was a major part of the team.

Kerr was an elite shooter no doubt, the best of the best, but I think a lot of players in the league could have filled his role and gave them shooting off the bench.

[ILLsmak]

Rodman was a non-factor offensively but he was still a star player and still essential to the team based on what he brought defensively. The Bulls already had plenty of scoring so they didn't need to rely on him for that.

In Last Dance when Pippen was hurt to start the 97-98 season, Jordan even says he looked to Dennis as the #2 guy on the team. That's not something you say about a role player. He was a major part of the team.

Kerr was an elite shooter no doubt, the best of the best, but I think a lot of players in the league could have filled his role and gave them shooting off the bench.

I guess to your credit, Rodman could play the bottom of the triangle and make the right play, but he's still closer to role player imo.

-Smak

[Full Court]

Many players have not been top 3 scorers on their team and been MVP caliber. At least 2 have won as the 5th scorer. Many have finished highly. Being a role player to me is about how much you contribute and how key that contribution is not what specifically you’re being asked to do.

If you’re someone the team might not even need to play in a lot of situations? Youre likely a role player. If your contribution is key and the game plan has to bend around you being there instead of just adjusting by removing you? When what you do is at such a level it’s a necessary component of the team?

Its harder to call that person a role player.

It isn’t precisely that simple because nothing is but I’d say it’s not bad to start there. If what you provide is key…not a luxury…required to accomplish the goals your team has?

Some of those guys might play a little more or less vs some matchups or if banged up or aging but what they provide is ultimately gonna be called on because it’s required?

Hard to call them role players in serious fashion.

The gray area is with guys who are key to their team…but might not be of much use elsewhere. Maybe because of a lack of depth or having an unusual role due to blended positions and overlapping responsibilities.

You can always find an exception. I’d say we can start by assuming people in the hall of fame fall on the right side of it.

It will be kind of hard to come to a "decision" on what a role player is when there's such a disparity in people's views of it.

Just curious, do you consider Draymond Green to be a role player?

[Kblaze8855]

Depends on what point of his career. When he’s the DPOY, primary playmaker, and gives you 12-15 a game? There was a point he was all that…plus shooting 41% from 3 for an entire title run. And people were calling him a role player then too.

[iamgine]

Since every players play roles, everyone can be reasonably called a role player. From there it's just categorization of what kind of role player someone is.

[Real Men Wear Green]

Since every players play roles, everyone can be reasonably called a role player. From there it's just categorization of what kind of role player someone is.

If you're going to define the word that loosely it doesn't serve a purpose.

[iamgine]

If you're going to define the word that loosely it doesn't serve a purpose.

The definition is that loose. Therefore everyone will have a different standard which guy shall lose the 'role player' moniker.

[Real Men Wear Green]

The definition is that loose. Therefore everyone will have a different standard which guy shall lose the 'role player' moniker.
The definition of a word is based on common usage. Most fans don't call everyone a roleplayer. Normally a franchise player is not seen as a roleplayer. The go-to guy is not just a roleplayer.

[iamgine]

The definition of a word is based on common usage. Most fans don't call everyone a roleplayer. Normally a franchise player is not seen as a roleplayer. The go-to guy is not just a roleplayer.

Neither should they. That's why they lose the role player moniker.

[ArbitraryWater]

No one seriously says Brown is a role player