Robert Sacre in the torture chamber.

[Kblaze8855]

https://youtu.be/s5-Jd_shnU0?si=lQeZzjm3iUEiCHKu


Dark days for the Lakers.

[1987_Lakers]

Al Jefferson had some top tier post moves. McHale basically gifted KG to Boston, but I'm sure he was happy to acquire someone who had some of his moves.

[Xiao Yao You]

The inefficient black hole

[warriorfan]

The inefficient black hole

:roll:

[Kblaze8855]

He shot 50% and 70% from the line for his career. Not everyone is unskilled enough to be relegated to a spot in the offense that only allows them to touch the ball when they can dunk it. “Dunker” wasn’t a well defined position in his prime like it is now. He caught the tail end of the previous….already declined…era of bigs.

[Xiao Yao You]

He shot 50% and 70% from the line for his career. Not everyone is unskilled enough to be relegated to a spot in the offense that only allows them to touch the ball when they can dunk it. “Dunker” wasn’t a well defined position in his prime like it is now. He caught the tail end of the previous….already declined…era of bigs.

He was awful. The Clarkson of the low post. Iso pump fakes while your teammates stand around watching knowing they won't touch the ball

[Xiao Yao You]

The Black Hole couldn't have played the dunker position as most can't no matter how skilled you think they are. Not athletic or long enough. He'd likely be a backup at best today even if he extended out to the 3 point line. Couldn't guard in space and no one would want him posting up

[Kblaze8855]

Your consistent miss application of the word “Awful” aside….

Whatever he might be in a league that doesn’t value his skill set isnt relevant. Why people think the basketball that has been played for like 8-10 of the last hundred+ years of the game is the default standard is beyond me. Comparing players from different era its no more valid to judge them by the current standard than to judge players by previous standards. There were post up specialists from our childhood who would literally commit 30 five second back down violations, playing the exact same way today. doesn’t make them worse players. It means the league changed how you are allowed to play.

it’s fair to acknowledge the changes if you’re trying to make some kinda all time list and adjust for the times(a difficult and often hopeless exercise itself) but it doesn’t matter what people might be when entirely different skill sets are expected of them. Yea if you remove the 3 point line which is most of the basketball ever played 3 point shooters are less effective because they score less on the same shots and there is no reason to guard them so close from 26 feet for a 36% 2. So less spacing.

Doesnt actually make current players worse in 1971. Just makes the game less suitable for them. Which isn’t the same thing.

[Xiao Yao You]

Your consistent miss application of the word “Awful” aside….

Whatever he might be in a league that doesn’t value his skill set isnt relevant. Why people think the basketball that has been played for like 8-10 of the last hundred+ years of the game is the default standard is beyond me. Comparing players from different era its no more valid to judge them by the current standard than to judge players by previous standards. There were post up specialists from our childhood who would literally commit 30 five second back down violations, playing the exact same way today. doesn’t make them worse players. It means the league changed how you are allowed to play.

it’s fair to acknowledge the changes if you’re trying to make some kinda all time list and adjust for the times(a difficult and often hopeless exercise itself) but it doesn’t matter what people might be when entirely different skill sets are expected of them. Yea if you remove the 3 point line which is most of the basketball ever played 3 point shooters are less effective because they score less on the same shots and there is no reason to guard them so close from 26 feet for a 36% 2. So less spacing.

Doesnt actually make current players worse in 1971. Just makes the game less suitable for them. Which isn’t the same thing.

You're the one that had to bring up the dunker position and the unskilled not me. Typical trollin'. I get it! :facepalm

[Xiao Yao You]

After stepping away from the franchise to address his mental health, guard Ricky Rubio and the Cleveland Cavaliers have agreed on a contract buyout — likely marking the end of Rubio’s accomplished 12-year NBA career, (https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/39240801/sources-ricky-rubio-cavaliers-agree-contract-buyout) sources told ESPN on Thursday. The buyout — which has $6.1 million left on this year’s contract and $6.4 million for 2024-2025 — gives the Cavaliers some financial relief and opens up a second spot on the team’s roster. If Rubio continues his professional career, it will likely be where he started as a 14-year-old prodigy — his native Spain.

– via Adrian Wojnarowski @ ESPN (https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/39240801/sources-ricky-rubio-cavaliers-agree-contract-buyout)




speaking of another supposedly highly skilled player that should have never started in the NBA

[Kblaze8855]

You're the one that had to bring up the dunker position and the unskilled not me. Typical trollin'. I get it! :facepalm


You have spent just under a decade talking incessantly about the efficiency of someone coaches don’t want to do anything with the basketball but dunk it. So when you complain about the efficiency of someone who shoots 50% and a respectable for a big man 70% It’s fairly obvious where the disconnect is.

being good enough to have responsibilities beyond dunking after someone hands you the ball under the rim is the source of what you generally call inefficiency. It’s a “negative” born of a positive. The kinda that that necessitates a little extra thinking.

Kinda like people who block more shots due to shutting down fewer drives or people who get more steals by getting burned going for a lot more steals. Just gotta use your head a little bit, which you are very selective in doing.

If he had any efficiency issue relative to expectations it stems from his lack of getting to the free-throw line.

[Xiao Yao You]

You have spent just under a decade talking incessantly about the efficiency of someone coaches don’t want to do anything with the basketball but dunk it. So when you complain about the efficiency of someone who shoots 50% and a respectable for a big man 70% It’s fairly obvious where the disconnect is.

being good enough to have responsibilities beyond dunking after someone hands you the ball under the rim is the source of what you generally call inefficiency. It’s a “negative” born of a positive. The kinda that that necessitates a little extra thinking.

Kinda like people who block more shots due to shutting down fewer drives or people who get more steals by getting burned going for a lot more steals. Just gotta use your head a little bit, which you are very selective in doing.

If he had any efficiency issue relative to expectations it stems from his lack of getting to the free-throw line.

there's no disconnect. You like the Jefferson's, Baron Davis', Eaton's etc. and I prefer other types of players. The only difference is it bothers you that I don't like your guys. I could care less who you like. You want to cheer for selfish, low IQ, one dimensional players have at it!

[ILLsmak]

there's no disconnect. You like the Jefferson's, Baron Davis', Eaton's etc. and I prefer other types of players. The only difference is it bothers you that I don't like your guys. I could care less who you like. You want to cheer for selfish, low IQ, one dimensional players have at it!

I dunno. I think he's just showcasing something that is not seen much anymore. The paragraph seemed believable until the last line haha. Might as well put 'you're ugly' in there, too.

-Smak

[Kblaze8855]

Have any 3 less similar players ever been lumped together as a type, than Al Jefferson, Baron Davis and Mark Eaton?

you really just pull out random names of people I bring up once every four years. Hell, I’m not sure I have ever made a topic about Al Jefferson before This One.

I just acknowledge that good players are good and question petty things used to say otherwise. You are probably the most Inconsistent hater I’ve ever encountered. Hate selfish low IQ no defense playing people but also hate Jason Kidd because he would shoot 5/12 in 44 minutes on a team with no shot creators while leading it to its greatest ever success.

you just have really weird and constantly shifting standards and tendency to call accomplished and highly acclaimed players awful while also selectively using accomplishments(sometimes the same ones) To prop up a the few people you don’t hate on.

Just a…really unusual fan.

[ILLsmak]

To be fair, tho, after watching some, he does clog a decent amount.

He takes up too much space in about half the plays.

-Smak

[SaltyMeatballs]

speaking of another supposedly highly skilled player that should have never started in the NBA

You're a certified hater

[Xiao Yao You]

I dunno. I think he's just showcasing something that is not seen much anymore. The paragraph seemed believable until the last line haha. Might as well put 'you're ugly' in there, too.

-Smak

I don't really judge men's looks. Might need some others on ISH for that. Ugly games I judge and The Black Hole, The Bum, The Matador, Baron and Eaton had ugly games. Gobert might even have an ugly game but his impact has been something to behold! :cheers:

[Xiao Yao You]

Have any 3 less similar players ever been lumped together as a type, than Al Jefferson, Baron Davis and Mark Eaton?

you really just pull out random names of people I bring up once every four years. Hell, I’m not sure I have ever made a topic about Al Jefferson before This One.

I just acknowledge that good players are good and question petty things used to say otherwise. You are probably the most Inconsistent hater I’ve ever encountered. Hate selfish low IQ no defense playing people but also hate Jason Kidd because he would shoot 5/12 in 44 minutes on a team with no shot creators while leading it to its greatest ever success.

you just have really weird and constantly shifting standards and tendency to call accomplished and highly acclaimed players awful while also selectively using accomplishments(sometimes the same ones) To prop up a the few people you don’t hate on.

Just a…really unusual fan.

What you consider good I have no need for. If you aren't a team player I could care less. This is a team sport.

Kidd shooting 5-12 wouldn't have been a problem. That wasn't his usual line

My standards don't change. There are players I've liked and players I haven't. Many of those players may suck to you because of whatever reason but I liked for my own reasons and vice versa. Jefferson was painful for me to watch as was Baron, Eaton, The Matador, The Bum and countless others. To you Gobert is no different than Capela or Deandre Jordan and anyone can do what he does because he is so unskilled yet no one else actually has done it for some very strange reason unless you think beating the 8th seed means as much as carrying bad teams

[Xiao Yao You]

You're a certified hater

I'm a hater because I like guys that can make a layup or play defense in front of their man or not throw wild passes into the stands when their specialty is supposed to be as a passer? I like lots of guys that are hated by others. I don't make threads about guys I don't like

[Real Men Wear Green]

It would be interesting to see how Big Al would get used in the modern era. His defense may be a problem but you can't convince he couldn't torch a smallball big.

[Xiao Yao You]

It would be interesting to see how Big Al would get used in the modern era. His defense may be a problem but you can't convince he couldn't torch a smallball big.

He had a face up game too. Rather he could have extended it out to the 3 point line would be the question. No one would want him posting up and he'd struggle defensively as he did then

[Kblaze8855]

What you consider good I have no need for. If you aren't a team player I could care less. This is a team sport.

Kidd shooting 5-12 wouldn't have been a problem. That wasn't his usual line

My standards don't change. There are players I've liked and players I haven't. Many of those players may suck to you because of whatever reason but I liked for my own reasons and vice versa. Jefferson was painful for me to watch as was Baron, Eaton, The Matador, The Bum and countless others. To you Gobert is no different than Capela or Deandre Jordan and anyone can do what he does because he is so unskilled yet no one else actually has done it for some very strange reason unless you think beating the 8th seed means as much as carrying bad teams


His career average is 4.5 of 11. 5 of 12 over 5 years on the suns. It’s…pretty standard. 12 seasons he took less than 12 shots a game. For his minutes he shot…quite rarely. A little less than noted chucker Ben Simmons. He has multiple all star years shooting less per 36 than prime Ben Wallace. But as I said you’ll find something to hate.

And DeAndre Jordan has, in fact played a similar role on teams that went exactly as far as any Rudy Gobert team has. Put up 13/14 on 72% shooting in the process. You being the only one who has ever lived on this earth to consider the role they play carrying a team, doesn’t change what those teams actually did.

It’s entirely possible Anthony Edwards might lead him somewhere he has never been. But I don’t think anyone has ever said he wasn’t capable of being one of the guys on a great team. Plenty of defensive minded dunkers have been before.

[Xiao Yao You]

His career average is 4.5 of 11. 5 of 12 over 5 years on the suns. It’s…pretty standard. 12 seasons he took less than 12 shots a game. For his minutes he shot…quite rarely. A little less than noted chucker Ben Simmons. He has multiple all star years shooting less per 36 than prime Ben Wallace. But as I said you’ll find something to hate.

And DeAndre Jordan has, in fact played a similar role on teams that win exactly as far as any Rudy Gobert team has. Put up 13/14 on 72% shooting in the process. You being the only one who has ever lived on this earth to consider the role they play carrying a team, doesn’t change what those teams actually did.

It’s entirely possible Anthony Edwards might lead him somewhere he has never been. But I don’t think anyone has ever said he wasn’t capable of being one of the guys on a great team. Plenty of defensive minded dunkers have been before.

Kidd was pretty easy to hate when you watch Stockton and Magic growing up. Lots of guys I haven't found anything to hate. Just not guys that you care about I guess. Certain guys certainly draw your ire

The Clippers would have been a good team without Jordan I'm pretty confident. Chris Paul is certainly better than anyone Gobert has ever played with since he hasn't played with an all-time great(Ant might be?). The Jazz in fact sucked without Gobert and still do. I'm certainly not the only one that thought Gobert carried the team. They were tanking. Than they were suddenly good. One thing changed. After that whenever he was off the floor they were awful. Was pretty obvious and plenty of facts that back it up.

You don't really pay much attention. Guess they don't pay you enough? Gobert is routinely called a scrub that doesn't belong in the league on ISH. Not exactly a guy that plays a role on a great team.

[Kblaze8855]

Tell you what. I won’t bother explaining that despite being on multiple teams with three all stars, he has won precisely as much playoffs as Bradley Beal so you can spare me the “It’s a team game” routine that somehow coexists in your head with the belief he personally made the Jazz good by himself. Let’s skip all that. Nobody needs to read more of it. You’re proud of your little pretender you had for a while. Thats fine.

[SaltyMeatballs]

I'm a hater because I like guys that can make a layup or play defense in front of their man or not throw wild passes into the stands when their specialty is supposed to be as a passer? I like lots of guys that are hated by others. I don't make threads about guys I don't like

Rubio was a solid, serviceable player. He wasn't efficient from the floor but he still found a way to make an impact through his defense and playmaking. You're upset that he made wild passes as an above-average playmaker? Every elite passer in history has made a boneheaded pass from the time to time. I've seen Nash and Kidd do that so many times but they're still some of the best passers the game has ever seen. Doesn't mean they're perfect.

I watched Rubio a lot more when he joined my Suns and I can say for certain that he was solid. Saying that he never should've started in the NBA is a really dumb statement.

[Xiao Yao You]

Rubio was a solid, serviceable player. He wasn't efficient from the floor but he still found a way to make an impact through his defense and playmaking. You're upset that he made wild passes as an above-average playmaker? Every elite passer in history has made a boneheaded pass from the time to time. I've seen Nash and Kidd do that so many times but they're still some of the best passers the game has ever seen. Doesn't mean they're perfect.

I watched Rubio a lot more when he joined my Suns and I can say for certain that he was solid. Saying that he never should've started in the NBA is a really dumb statement.

First off Rubio never made sense with Gobert. You put players around your best player that fit. I've said Rubio would probably make a good bench player with his manic energy and I believe he did after the failed experiment in Utah. He should have never been a starter in the NBA at least on a team that wants to win games. Did any team besides the Jazz win games with him as a starter? Couldn't shoot. Lay-ups were an adventure. Was supposed to be a great passer with a high IQ but he made more passes where I was just like wtf are you even thinking than anyone. Had great length on D but played behind his man and went for steals instead of playing D. Unlike some players he did have something to offer it just wasn't as a starting pg spotting up in the corner for 3

[Xiao Yao You]

Just to confirm no team other than the Jazz had a winning record with Rubio as their starter except the Jazz and they won with whatever crap they put around Gobert. So a dumb statement to say Rubio shouldn't have been a starting pg in the NBA or dumb to think he was one and should be spotting up in the corner for 3?